Wow great thread with some really valuable information.
Thanks especially Michael!
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Wow great thread with some really valuable information.
Thanks especially Michael!
LOL when I got my conscientious objection form I was told I was putting my child's life in danger, there were no pro's & cons. I've had 3 phone calls this week from the GP's asking me to book Jovie in for more immunisations. She's had one lot at 12 months and will get a booster of that one in a few weeks but its amazing how one sided it is presented.
Wow Christy,
That really is amazing that a doctor(let alone 3) would take the time to push/force their opinions on you. Whats it to them anyway? How ridiculous. Its an informed decision.
I was surprised just the same to see that there was a case of polio occuring only last year.
As far as the other comments that have been made by others about the immunisation payment, i dont think that would influence me one way or the other. its only 200 after all. I was wondering though what is community services stance on this? If you dont immunise and dont fill out the conscientious objection form after discussing it all with a gp are you going to get calls from community health and services saying that you are a negligent parent? I understand that it should be our own choice to immunise or not,but is it really?If we are going to get the government harrasment..
I am against having other people's views forced on others. But I concede that in the case of immunistaions, there are probably parents who have no objection to immunisation, but forget that they are due, have difficulty getting to a GP or health clinic and probably in a few instances just couldn't be bothered with it all. So it is probably fair enough in a way that there are reminders and follow ups, and that you need to get a form signed if you choose not to. It at least means that you have to give it some thought and make a decision, not just ignore it. But you should not be cricised for making an informed decision, whatever you decide.
Where do you get a concientious objection form from?
From your GP Janie :)
Okay - I've just read all the posts on this issue with MUCH interest. I'm sure there are other posts about this and would love for someone to direct me to them if possible!
A couple of questions though:
I am one of those parents who had my DD immunised simply because I thought it was right and was told by my health nurse and GP that's what to do. I NEVER even thought of questioning it! Does that make me bad? I trust them compeltely and assume the information they are giving me is correct. I do, of course, know there are people who don't immunise but I didn't realise how many.
Also if you don't immunise and your child gets that disease, what happens then?
I'm certainly not against people who don't but would love some more info. It seems strange to me that so many health professionals give only one side of the arguement. We had a lady come to our mum's group to talk about it and she was very "pro" immunisations (of course!) and I guess we never would have thought otherwise because of the info we've been given.
I don't feel bad (yet) about immunising DD but would like some more info. Thanks!
I have been reading this thread with great interest and have even discussed it with DF. I too got my first born immunised because I just thought that's what everyone had to do. With my second, I got the shock of my life when my DD was hospitalised from her first immunisation. I was a wreck seeing what she went through and the fact that she could have ended up with brain damage or worse still, death, really scared me. I never got the rest of her immunisations. With my third bub, I felt pushed to get them done and I was just so frightened that it would all happen over again, he was fine, but to this day I wonder why I felt I had to do it.
Now that I am pg again, many years later and I am older and more informed, I won't go down the immunisation path again and am glad for this info in HP immunisation.
I had heard (and may I stipulate that I obviously haven't come across this info on a gvt website or anything, I can't remember what my source is - ) that GP's get paid a certain amount, like a commission for immunisations. Not sure if that's if they meet a certain quota, of if that's per vaccination, or what, but it is food for thought on why the clinics are happy to take the time to make reminder calls. :)
Isn't it a requirement when they start primary school that all their vaccinations are up to date? I considered not getting my bub vaccinated but for that reason, I figured it wasn't practical.
edit: i should've read the whole thread before posting >.<
Why does everyone keep saying its a requirement when it's not? (Not in this thread, I mean just generally people do).
Because Primary Schools will often ask for an immunisation certificate. Unless you have already chosen not to immunise, most people assume this means it is compulsory - but we in the know realise you can simply lodge a conscientious objection with the school. Education is another of those government things that they are pretty much obliged to provide, whether your children are immunised or not.
Oddly enough, the only place where I have found that non-immunisation is a problem, is for adults working in health care. NSW Health have just introduced a new policy that requires all staff to have immunisations to work in certain areas, or they can be permanently reassigned to other areas, even areas outside of their training. That's coming on pretty heavily! As an adult, I have no qualms having immunisation boosters, etc., but my wife (who is a midwife) is allergic to some of the components of the MMR. She had a life-threatening reaction as a child. When she told them that that was the reason she wasn't getting immunised against measles/mumps/rubella, they actually suggested that she come into the ED and be immunised there - so that they could resuscitate her when they were done!
Scmikers, what a joke! That is disgusting!
Just thought I would copy Tracey's informative post into this thread considering it's about alternatives.
:
Greetings Everyone
I'm a great advocate of the homeopathic alternative to conventional vaccination. There has been some brilliant research conducted by Isaac Golden over the past 20 or so years. Over this time, three groups of infants - one group un-vaccinated, one group fully vaccinated and one group given homeopathic prophylaxis - were traced. The results were quite incredible, showing that the immune systems of the homeopathic group were far stronger than either of the other groups. Studies have also been conducted in Brazil, where homeopathic immunisation was proven to be 95% effective against Meningococcal infection in children. No method of vaccination is 100% guaranteed, however, homeopathy is proven to be 90.4% effective as an alternative to conventional vaccination which is 75 - 95% effective. The big factor here is that there are no harmful side-effects caused by homeopathy - something that is a very real possibility with conventional vaccination I know many children and adults who have been completely homeopathically 'vaccinated', and they are very healthy people indeed
I like to provide parents with both sides of the vaccination argument, and provide resources for self-education as it is a very difficult decision to make. That said, I do sell a number of homeopathic 'vaccination' kits through my clinic. Once you read through the info it may not be such a challenging choice! I use Isaac Golden's kits as he has put in the hard yards with all his research, and I trust him 100%. He also keeps very up-to-the-minute with new vaccine schedules etc. I sell his kits for $110, and they cover the entire vaccination schedule (four years). It is necessary to have a consultation to explain the schedule and provide information, and this can also be booked at the BellyBelly centre on Thursdays or as a telephone consultation.
If anyone needs any extra advice regarding homeopathic immunisation, or would like some great websites to check out, feel free to msg me.
xxx
__________________
Warm Regards,
Nicole Tracy
Nicole is a Naturopath who works in the BellyBelly Pregnancy Centre. View her profile or make an appointment by clicking here.
JordieC - to answer your questions.
No, you are not bad for going along with the flow and not questioning sooner. Lots of us did the same thing. I started to question some Dr's agenda on a completely different matter and uncovered alot of things I felt I needed to research.
Nothing happens if your child catches something. You nurse them through it like you would any other illness, go to a Naturopath etc. My children both contracted the Mumps through playgroup. It needed to be notified to the Health Department so I did. They called me back and were very nice. They just wanted to have some sort of an idea where it came from - we agreed it was probably playgroup as its very multicultural and there is always someone flying in or out to a range of different countries.
The lady mentioned I had a great handle on everything and wasn't concerned in the least. No lectures, I clearly explained my beliefs and she didn't bat an eyelid.
Just for the record - the last 5 or so kids I know that had chicken pox had ALL been immunised.
Hi
Have a look at this site regarding homeopathic immunisation. Very informative.
The Do No Harm Initiative Inc.- Avoid the damage and save lives
Reagrds
LisaB.
Hi all;
What a great thread! So glad this one popped up!!
DH and I have been reading this thread with much interest. ever since DD six month injections, we have not felt okay about her 12 month ones. Right now we are not too sure as to whether we will be getting her vaccinated at 12 months.
The last time I went the clinis nurse, I asked her about the 12 month vaccines, I asked for the pros and cons to them and the vaccine schedule in general. her response was that there are no cons and only pros, and she could not understand why people wouldnt get their children vaccinated.
The last time I went to the doctors, I asked her the same question. Her response was extremely similar, and was to the point that she did not even hear my concerns or questions about the schedule.
Up until reading this thread we did not know that you could select what vaccines your children were given!!! After learning this, DH and I feel extremely let down by our doctors, town, hospital, prenatal information, and our general lack of research into the vaccine schedule...
We want the best for our daughter like every other parent out there, and right now the next set of injections doesnt sit well with us, maybe it parents intutition, who knows.
What are the consequences to selecting what your child is vaccinated against (with the government, and those who put their noses in) ?
Our daughter turns 1 in three weeks, in three weeks we are moving so we have decided to put off her injections until after we move. thats the only final decision we have made thus far....
Also we had heard of 'green' immunisations, where the amount of vaccine is calculated according to their weight rather than a set dose. Does anyone know if this is possible in australia?
hope this makes sense; we are soo confused about the immunisation thing, especially when it doesnt feel right for us right now!
okay dd is 17 months and has been immunised completely up to this point... i did have doubts but went along with it, this now sounds ghastly but i didn't feel i had the time to research it thoroughly so just pushed it to the back of my mind....
what do you suggest for someone in my situation.... i mean, because she has been immunised up to this point, is there any point in ceasing the immunisations, or delaying them???? i mean, i guess what i'm asking is, wouldn't the damage (if any) already be done?
if i ceased immunisations, or delayed them, would that then mean that the ones she has had up until this point have been for nothing?
The damage already done? Dunno Emma...I mean, many kids get immunised and are fine, so it's great that your DD's fine! What does she have left to have? I guess you'd have to look at what your DD is yet to have and assess the risk for those particular immunisations. Many people pick and choose their immunisations, depending on what they feel the risk is. I don't think the ones up until now would have been for nothing, if they've been effective, they will have provided your DD with some measure of immunity! Which is a good thing!
Don't feel bad, we make the best choices we can with the knowledge we have at the time, and I'm not necessarily anti-immunisation. I just haven't felt that the time is right for my kids yet. Maybe I never will. I imagine if I don't go the homeopathic route, that I will have another good think about it closer to primary school, but who knows really?
Bellybeans, the consequences will be people telling you how irresponsible you are, but you can always point out that many people don't give it a second thought, and it is responsible to research any decision you make for your child. :)
I've never heard about 'green' vaccination, I'd be curious to learn more about that!
Hi
I haven't heard of Green immunisation, only heard of homeopathic as an alternative. It is not always the virus that is the problem but the additives that go into the injections. This can include substances such as aluminium, thimerisol (although they say this has been removed, it is still used in the manufacturing process in some immunisations) monkey kidney,and a host of other preservatives and nasty additives. My children had an alergic reaction to the additives and are now medically exempt from further immunisation. For us though, the damage has already been done. It's great that you are doing research.
Kind regards
Lisa B.
OMG I wish I had found this thread earlier!! I too just went with the flow and had DD immunised cos I thought everyone did and it was the done thing (mind you she was in hospital for 6mths so all except 12mth ones were done as an inpatient). She had 12mth ones at the GP and I was a bit apprehensive because I had recently read about a mother who is convinced her son became autistic after the MMR, and she started a group type thng and several other mothers said the same thing about their autistic kids. also cos at 12mths she was only 5.6kgs so i thought she should get a different dosage to 1yr olds double her weight. I asked GP about this, or getting any kind of brain damage etc and he said it was just scare tactics and its coincidence that the signs of autisim start to show at that age....so i got her immunised against my better judgement and she luckily did not have any severe reactions (that we can tell of now anyway) but was sick as a dog for the week following and had temps of 38.5-39.5 for the following 3 days. I was so angry at myself and will make a much more informed decision next time. it's almost like you get bullied and made to feel like a bad mum if you even question immunisation. this is a dumb question, but if i didn't give her the MMR vaccine and she caught measles, mumps or ruebella what would happen? if nothing different happens to non immunised kids, what is the point of getting them? sorry to sound so naive (sp?) but its all so confusing and scary to think i could be putting my child in danger if not immunised (thats what i've always been lead to believe anyway).
Hi
if your child is not immunised and get measels, mumps or rubella then she will probably get sick. To what degree she is sick depends on her own immune system.
You can have your child immunised homeopathically which has been said to be equally effective in preventing disease but does not contain the nasty additives. In the 90's the Brazilian government decided to immunise their children against menengitis by homeopathic means. The results were equal to the results gained by traditional means, so this seems to be a viable alternative.
On the topic of MMR being a factor in autism, The anecdotal evidence pointing towards this being true is very strong. Some medical professionals are now realising this and recommending holding off immunising until at least two years of age or older.
Some others just can't get past their training and admit it might be right.
Didn't they used to recommend thalidamide to pregnant women? And at one stage if you asked a doctor about the benefits of Fish oils they said it was rubbish, now they are saying it is essential.
I remember asking a doctor for the menengitis vaccine for my daughter and he said what do you want to do that for , it's totally unnessesary. Now it's part of the immunisation schedule, and if you don't get it done your hounded half to death by Dr's saying your an irresponsible parent.
I think the pharmaceutical companies that manufacture these products are the ones pushing them - money talks.
Anyway have a look at these sites and make your own informed decision.
www.mindd.org
AVN - > AVN - Home
The Do No Harm Initiative Inc.- Avoid the damage and save lives
Kind regards
Lisab.
Sorry to hijack!
Just a quick question. My DS, 12, is fully vaccinated. I never thought twice about not doing it. I now have DD, 6 weeks, and am finding myself leaning more towards not vaccinating. She did not have HepB at birth, we aren't in an at risk group.
I have looked at Michaels suggested schedule and it appeals to me, as I was contemplating delaying rather than completely choosing not to at all. My question is this, because I have DS at school and playing with his friends ra ra ra, is my DD at a higher risk of coming into contact with these diseases than a child with no other siblings in school etc?
I have been researching this topic so intensely as DF is keen to get her immunised but he is open to discussion on the topic.
It is just so hard to come to a decision.
I don't want to put my DD at risk, but I also don't want to introduce all those nasty things into her body if I don't have to - that is just my thoughts.
Now this is weird for me, as I work in a NNU and we vaccinate our babies and I used to be all for it, until I had DD, now I am not liking the idea at all!
Argh, if anyone has any ideas on what they think of my question, I would greatly appreciate any info.
Thanks!
Hi Michael,
We are thinking of giving our son the DTPa vaccination but it appears it is not available anymore?
The option we have been presented is GSK Infarix DTPa + IPV, which includes the Polio component. Ideally we didnt want to do the polio as well. Sanofi use to do a DTPa vaccination until about 2 years ago when they lost the contract with the government.
I noticed in your schedule you had DTPa only and I am wondering what brand this would be, or you could tell me where you can go to get this done?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Ella and Robert
To be honest, I am not sure it is available either. We have been trying to source it recently for our little one and not been able to find it.
Thanks Michael for your reply. We still have not had any luck locating a infant DTPa vaccine. Sanofi is the company that use to distribute Tripcel (Tripedia in the US) here in Australia which was used for the DTPa vaccinations. Now the government has dropped the contract they no longer distribute it in Australia. Tripacel is registered for use in Australia, so there should be no problems importing it - but you would need to find someone to ship it, and also make sure that the vaccine is shipped correctly ie. at the correct temperature.
I think the option for a DTPa vaccine only in Australia is looking very slim. I am disappointed that as parents we can not be selective in what vaccines we give our children. We are now deciding on whether to go with the DTPa + IPV (Polio).
You can download the CO form from the internet, it is usually preferable to do that, fill it out, and take it into your GP or whoever is going to sign it, I have heard of people being given grief for even asking for the form from the GP's office and then being harassed by staff at the time, or by phonecall ...:rolleyes:
www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/files/ma_conscientious_objection_form.pdf
Cyathea - When I was talking about being selective I didn't mean choosing whether to do it or not ie. CO - but being selective in the vaccinations that are administered. Ideally we want him to have only DTPa, but it appears that is presently not an option here in Australia as the DTPa only vaccine is not distributed anymore. The only DTPa options available all include other immunisations, the options currently in Australia for DTPa are:
1) GSK Infanrix-IPV which is DTPa + Polio
2) GSK Infanrix Penta which is DTpa + Hep B + IPV (Polio)
3) GSK Infanrix Hexa which is DTPa + Hep B + HIB + IPV (polio) + Pneumoccal
Option 3 is what you get by default when you go for your 2, 4, 6 immunisations and they are all made GlaxoSmithKline. Since you can not get DTPa only, we are now weighing up whether to go with option 1.
I actually wasn't posting in response to you (in fact I never actually read your post...)I just read the thread, and saw that when someone asked about where to get the CO form, they were told to get it from the GP's office, so I wanted to post a link so people could just print it out themselves...:
Sorry for any confusion :)
Yay good to hear i'm not the only one who is unsure about immunisations... although still being pregnant my confusion starts with the Vitamin K at birth.
thanks so much for all your info so far... no i just have to try get DH on board with my thinking - unfortunately he just goes with what everyone else is doing and so does his family :doh: oh well.
Schmickers - I was looking at your schedule and wondering about Meningococcal which is recommended at 12 months according to the NIPS. You have got it on your low risk schedule at 4 years but not on your high risk schedule. Instead you have Pneumococcal Conjugate at 12 months which taken from the NIPS: "Medical at-risk children require a fourth dose of 7vPCV at 12 months of age, and a booster dose of 23vPPV at 4 years of age." Just wondering if this should be Meningococcal instead of Pneumococcal Conjugate or am I missing something? Thanks
That's a good catch, Funkee. I have edited it to make that correction.
Thanks for the quick reply mate, thought I was going crazy for a little while there
very interesting read.
Hi,
I've just read through this from start to finish and find it all very interesting. My ds2 is just over 10weeks and hasn't had his vaccinations yet. Ds1 was fully vaccinated as I didn't know about BB or that you could opt not to get them done.
I'm thinking of getting partial vaccinations as per Michaels schedule, but someone has said that you can't get DTPa in Australia on it's own? Does anyone know if this is still the case? I don't want to look like a total tool when going to my gp :)
Thanks!
I don't think you can Sharon. My GP said the smallest she could get was DTPa with polio.
Heaven - thanks for that, think I'll ask for that one.
Let me know if you find out you can just get the DTPa somehow!!
Hi heaven,
Unfortunately it looks like the DTPa formulation without polio is no longer available in Australia. It was called Infanrix (you used to be able to get diptheria as a seperate immunisation, as well as tetanus by itself as well.) You can get polio by itself, but I do not know if the formulation is suitable for children. I actually remember giving infanrix with hep B formulation so it stopped being used sometime in the last 9 years.
The people to contact would be the health department in your state to see if it can be imported for you as you may need permission to do this.
This site lists the vaccinations that are registered here but are not available for use:
Immunise - Appendix 3: Products registered in Australia but not currently available - updated July 2009
And this one lists the contact numbers of the various authorities in each state:
Immunise - Appendix 1: Contact details for Australian, State and Territory Government health authorities and communicable disease control
I hope this was helpful to you.
I have to go and do a nappy-change, so I'm just subscribing so I can come back later!
Thanks so much muminalice!!!! Very helpful.