Need non biased info on swine flu vaccine

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TBH in my personal experience government organisations are pro vax as I don't think they do have a choice. Sure they can't force you, but I know that MCHNs are not allowed to give their personal view on vaccinating, or even say thats your choice. They have to give you the pro vax speil. Which makes it harder again for a mother to make an informed decision IMO. When you can't get professional advice you want IYKWIM.

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This is sad, but mostly true. We are actually obliged to resdpect your choice not to vaccinate - if you ask. We are definitely not allowed to tell you the vaccination is mandatory, or anything like that. But yes, we are required, as part of our code of conduct, to respect Department of Health policy "even when it conflicts with our own personal, spiritual, or religious beliefs."

My way of dealing with that is just to be honest, and tell parents that when they ask - that the Department of Health requires me to promote vaccination as a preventative measure, but that it is ultimately their choice. If they press for any more information, I have to apologise, and tell them I can't really say any more because my own parenting choices don't necessarily agree with Department of Health policies. Most parents get my drift at that point.

Shmickers we need more of you around I think.

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As for MCHN, they are shifty buggers at the best of times trying to leave you questioning your own choices on many subjects, if they want you vaccinate or reconsider, they'll use their Jedi mind tricks on you soon enough.

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I would just like to say that is NOT true in all cases. My last 3 MCHN have been wonderful. Nothing but supportive of any choice I make (cloth nappies, extended BFing, co sleeping, BLS, not vaccinating against some things, wearing my baby) and most were not 'norm' choices. I have never once left there feeling I was doing something wrong. Helen is the one here where I have moved to, and she even said (which isn't allowed to be said by her apparently) that BLS makes much MORE sense than pureed foods, and she wishes she was allowed to tell parents the benefits of it but she isn't allowed.

I think if you walk in with a negative attitude to MCHN's you will get a negative attitude back, maybe this is why you haven't had any good experiences with them? ;)

That's a little presumptuous assuming or suggesting MY attitude is the cause of her practice Missy.

To be given the party line with some attitude about little things like bowel habits. To be quizzed inappropriately, "any domestic violence or depression?"

To have my partner, who is a widow, bring up that the NORMAL flood of emotion post birth also raised feelings naturally about her deceased husband referred to a "counsellor" saying Ive been told your having " parenting problems".

Our vaccination talk was "you WILL be vaccinating". well yes we were but the smart ••se way of asking isn't called for.

So no not every MCHN is like that but like all professions some are but many di have an air about them. It's a health profession thing for me: it's the vibe I guess. We got what we got. Lucky we are moving councils.

It's our experience, it's not the norm though, but this post is detracting form the main thread so time to move on from this little discursion.

just a reminder to stick to the topic, thankyou!

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just a reminder to stick to the topic, thankyou!

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just what I said! ;)

I had the swine flu vax a couple of months before I fell pregnant. I did get mild cold like symptoms a few days later but it was by no means the flu.

My Mothers partner (who is not elderly, he's 54) DID have swine flu during the initial outbreak and he was extremely sick for about 3 weeks, so there is a big difference between swine flu and the common cold.

I am considering getting my DD vaccinated mainly because she is in daycare fulltime (I'm a working mum) and she is natually going to be much more likely to be exposed to H1N1 than toddlers who don't go to daycare. If I was lucky enough to be a SAHM I probably wouldn't worry about getting DD vacc'ed.
But with bugs going around daycare centres like they do, I would hate for my little girl to get swine flu and be as sick as my mothers partner was.

Clover, maybe think about how exposed your children are likely to be, and take your decision from there.

When i first fell pregnant in August my GP told me about the vaccine and said to have a think about if i wanted to get it or not... just to bear in mind that there was no real testing done on pregnant women and about how it affect unborn children. If it was her she wouldn't get it done..... 7 months down the track and coming into Autumn she has brought the topic up again and given me another leaflet.... obviously the information is from the government but the websites listed on it for more info are:
TGA - Therapeutic Goods Administration
http://www.healthemergency.gov.au/in...publishing.nsf
This time she was suggesting that I do get it done because it is coming into flu season again and that the vaccine was safe for pregnant women & that some babies and mothers had died after contracting swine flu.

Now i really like my GP and i don't mean to dis her in anyway...however having contradicting advice coming from her makes me wonder whether I should get it or not.

From what I have heard that most people who did die from SF had exisiting complications/health problems that the flu only exsaserbated their condition. I personally know two mothers who were pregnant last year who contracted SF and a newborn and all of them were fine... yes they were admited to hospital to keep their fluids up and an eye on them, but there were no other problems. This to me, means that if i am healthy & look after myself then SF is not a risk that warrants me to freak out about 'dying' from that i need to rush and get a vaccine. Yes it may be quite horrible to have and you do get quite ill from it; however thats what happens when you get sick.

however on my info sheet the GP gave me it says about pregnant women:

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Pregnat women should get the vaccine. Pregnant women are more susceptible to complications of the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 influenza virus than the general population, putting both mother and baby at risk. Some women who have caught this disease have miscarried or have gone into premature labour or have died. Vaccination will protect both mother and baby. Influenza vaccines are safe during pregnancy and are normall recommended for pregnatn women. The Panvax H1N1 vaccine is not a 'live' vaccine and is not a risk to unborn babies.

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For me I personally don't understand how it can not be a risk to unborn babies yet immunise & protect them from it?
I dont think you will find any 'unbias' info. All studies are done with the intent to be bias one way or another. Like i think smichkers said, you need to find both bias' and find your own middle ground. ask your gp for this info sheet i got; i'm sure they have them to give out.

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... asthmatic kids generally react worse to vaccines.

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The don't react as well to bacteria and viruses either.....

my boys are asthmatic, I am asthmatic. We rarely get sick and none of us have had the flu. To me it's pointless to vaccinate against it when the odds are we wouldn't catch either flu anyways.

Besides that I don't like being a guinea pig.

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In which case they have already been exposed and therefore may already have immunity.

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errm... not quite how the flu virus works. Virology 101 - there are already main identified strains. Personally, this in itself is why I wouldn't bother vaccinating against swine flu (or any flu) if you weren't in the high risk catagories, but I just wanted to clarify the misinformation you posted.

How does the vaccination lower your immunity?

As for the "it won't happen to me", that naivety of beliefs is potentially dangerous.

Asthma by it very pathology increases the the potential for contraction of droplet and airborne infections and longer or more severe physiological responses. The mere fact that thus far you have been spared is not guarantee if future protection.

You only have to sit in the waiting room of your local GP or Childrens Hospital Emergency to find natures petrie dish working full throttle.

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errm... not quite how the flu virus works. Virology 101 - there are already main identified strains.

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I think what H&N was saying was that if the children had already been exposed to H1N1, then they would likely have some immunity to H1N1 - not the seasonal flu.

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Yes, every year their are many flu virues that go around. So vaccinating yourself against one virus, the h1n1, and supressing your entire immune system in hopes you will be able to prevent that one virus (the vac is less then 50% effective) doesnt make sense. Have they ever tested the safetly of the h1n1 vaccine on Asthmatic kids? Last i check it was only tested on kids with no health issues and even many of them had bad reactions.
Focus on being healthy. Eat healthy good foods. Limit sugar. Get sunlight so you body has Vit D. Eat superfoods and herbs that contain all the nutrients you need. Even Echinacea can be beneficial, its been shown to be better then the drug Tamiflu.

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Absolutely :)

Unhealthy people get sick the most. Those who get lots of sleep, drink plenty of water, eat a wide variety of healthy foods, get regular exersise, are ones who don't get sick often.

The vax was barely tested, still is barely tested.

They say give it to pregnant women, yet it was never tested and checked to see if it was damaging to the unborn child.
They say give it to children who are asthmatic or immu sup. yet it was never tested to see if this was ok.

Great, if you have had it or want to, that is your choice. However you can't judge someone who says they wont. Especially when said persons doctor is totally AGAINST the vaccination... ;)

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I think what H&N was saying was that if the children had already been exposed to H1N1, then they would likely have some immunity to H1N1 - not the seasonal flu.

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Sorry - I failed to type a '6'... :redface::shhh:

There are 6 identified strains of SIV, so whether the children were exposed to H1N1 is a role of the dice, literally.

This is why I don't vaccinate against SIV (or any flu):
1) I'm not in anything close to a high-risk category, so the implications of me falling ill are fairly low.
2) dozens of flu strains go around every year, and the flu vaccines do not cover all of them. You're really rolling the dice to see which strains are coming to your town that season.

However, if I was in a risk category (and I personally don't believe pregnancy is if you're otherwise fit & healthy), I would vaccinate because I'd rather have a prepared immune response to some of the strains than none of the strains. And that includes SIV (H1N1).

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Sweetie I don't have specific info but I just wanted to say it isn't your Mum's decision to get them imunised . It's yours and you DH's choice. Even if it isn't her being nasty she is overstepping the mark IMO.

Spring x

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well said :clap::clap:

we have 2 children with asthma and 2 adults we chose to get it done because we didnt want a risk to our premmie bub but still feel a bit unsure about it IYKWIM

Kirley - I'm in the same boat - am pregnant and have heard different advice.

This has got me and DP a little spooked though ... especially as DD1 goes to childcare (coincidentally in the same suburb where the first case of swine flu in Melbourne was reported last year).

FROM SYDNEY MORNING HERALD

AUSTRALIAN experts are tipping a resurgence of swine flu as early as Easter, as new research shows the deadly effect the illness had last year on pregnant women.

The study of Australian and New Zealand women found that among women who were pregnant or had recently given birth and were admitted to intensive care units with swine flu from June to August last year, 11 per cent died. Twelve per cent of their babies died.

In Australia between 1997 and 2005 only one pregnant woman died from influenza, but in the three months of the swine flu pandemic four women died from the disease.

Ian Seppelt, of the Australian and New Zealand Intensive Care Influenza Investigators, who led the research, said normally not even one pregnant woman would die from any cause in a three-month period in Australia. "So while it is a small number overall … it is still very important," he said.

Dr Seppelt said his research, published yesterday in the British Medical Journal, could not completely explain why some mothers and babies died and others did not.

''It is very hard to say who is a high risk because just being pregnant makes women high risk,'' he said. "While a proportion of women had conditions like asthma or were obese, there were some totally normal and healthy women who died.''

But Dr Seppelt noted that women who were more than 20 weeks pregnant were 13 times more likely to be admitted to hospital with a critical illness. Aboriginal women, too, were at particular risk.

He recommended that all pregnant women were given seasonal flu vaccine this year, even if they have already had the swine flu vaccine, which immunises them against a number of strains of the flu.

Australia might see another wave of swine flu as early as May, and the strain would probably account for three-quarters of all flu cases this year, he said.

Robert Booy, the head of clinical research at the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance of Vaccine Preventable Diseases, said swine flu was not necessarily more dangerous for pregnant women than other flu types, but was more common. ''In the great majority of people this virus is very mild, but for a minority it is very serious and so when large numbers of people are getting infected some people [will die],'' he said.

While Professor Booy agreed that another wave of swine flu could emerge as early as Easter, he said authorities could only guess when the disease would resurface.

"So many people in Australia have been getting immunised recently that I think there is a real possibility of keeping the next wave down to a small wave," Professor Booy said.

However, he said pregnant women who already had small children still had a high risk of contracting swine flu.

"This infection ripped through school age and preschool-age children … so my guess is that pregnant women with another child were at greater risk," he said.

Interesting and helpful thread...

I vaxed all but the chicken pox, and never flu vaxed because my boys were fully and partiall breastfed. Neither of the boys have ever had the flu, only minor colds. We eat tonnes of garlic, my dh is convinced thats why ;)

But i suppose the "panic" has set in, words like epidemic trigger my anxiety so i'm just looking in to this.

From my understanding of this thread, am i correct in saying that its not the actual swine flu that kills people, its that it worsens their already conditions which lead to complications?

So a very healthy child with no conditions and not much social group contact probably doesn't need it? (in your opinions?)