Questions re: Vitamin K, Hep B and Heel tests

[Persephone1]

Hi,

I'm starting to do my research about infant immunisations and screening tests, and have a few questions that I'm hoping others might be able to answer.

DH and I are approaching the issue of vaccination with an open mind. I object to my child receiving a vaccination without us having made an informed decision, so we're researching individual vaccines and making a "Yes," "No," or "Maybe later" decision on each of them. At this stage we don't consider ourselves "objectors" or "pro-vaccine;" we're basing it on individual merit of each vaccine.

So far, it's likely that we'll say "no" to our baby receiving the Hep B vaccine at birth. That's about as far as we've got...I've only read about Hep B and Vitamin K, so I'll have more questions about the other vaccines as I get to them.

My questions so far....

1. *Do we need to complete a Conscientious Objector form if we intend on saying No to the Hep B vaccine at birth? Do I need to do this before the birth, or is it okay just to say "No" at the birth (and in our Birth Plan, etc)? Likewise, is saying No to the Vitamin K dose at birth considered a conscientious objection, or just a routine "No." Ie. Will the midwives at the hospital accept our decision or do we need a CO form for this?

2. Do we need to complete a Conscientious Objector form if we intend to say no to some vaccines and yes to others?

3. (If yes to either of the above) Do both DH and I need to sign the CO form, and do we both need to attend an appointment with our GP to sign this form? (This isn't a problem, we'll be making a joint decision, but I just need to know whether DH needs to come to the appointment).

4. I've been reading about the Vitamin K injection/oral dose and am a bit conflicted...I'd be interested in hearing some personal stories about why others said yes or no to the Vitamin K dose at birth, and if the answer was yes, whether and why you chose the injection or the oral dose.

5. If you said no to the Vitamin K dose, did you supplement your own diet in order that Baby received extra Vitamin K through your breastmilk?

6. And one more (for today)...am I alone in being a bit apprehensive about the Heel Test done on my baby (where the baby's heel is jabbed a few days after birth to test for rare genetic deformities). Have others refused this test, and why/why not?

Thanks in advance. It would be nice if someone just gave me a crystal ball but these decisions (and the research) is difficult!

Seph

[HotI]

I have done some research on newborn screening (the heel ***** test). What are your concerns with testing? I may be able to answer questions you might have.

Personally, i am looking into the same issues with vaccinating etc, so will be interested to see replies.

[Persephone1]

Hi Kate,

I understand the heel test is quite ouchy and that blood is squeezed out of the heel. Do you know if there are less invasive tests? Less painful ones? I'm not sure the benefits outweigh the pain to bub.

[Arimeh]

I've never known anyone to say no to the heel test - honestly, my two girls didn't even seem effected by it, just had a bit of a jolt when it was done, but continued on feeding. My midwife warmed up the area though first.

We got the vitamin K shot for DS and DD1 because they were c-sections. Generally seen as a more traumatic birth for bubs - whereas I didn't get it for DD2.

I haven't ever gotten them vacced at birth for hep b -i didn't see the point. They weren't going to come into contact with anyone with it for the first two months of their lives and we weren't taking them overseas. I've never had to fill in a CO form for that one - I think that one really is optional.

[Inanna]

Trillian answered just as I would so I won't say any more. Good luck with your decisions my love.

[Trillian]

In relation to your 5th question which I couldn't answer myself, I did a bit of googling and found this taken from Midwifery Today Vitamin K in Colostrum and Breastmilk now it doesn't say if those mothers supplemented vitK themselves or not and the sample was only quite small, so its not really an effective study, but it does give you a bit of an idea about vitk in breastmilk.

[HotI]

Hi Kate,
I understand the heel test is quite ouchy and that blood is squeezed out of the heel. Do you know if there are less invasive tests? Less painful ones? I'm not sure the benefits outweigh the pain to bub.

I haven't heard of any less invasive tests. They used to do a urine (wet nappy) test for PKU but it didn't detect all affected kids. Some bubs sleep through the collection and don't react, whilst others have a harder time with the blood collection.

Some people prefer for the nurse to take their bub away for testing, but then it just helps the parents cos they don't see if bub gets upset. Warming the foot up before the test is done can help the blood flow easier.

It is only a small number of bubs who will be identified as having one of the conditions they test for, BUT having that info and starting treatment early can make enormous difference in the life of that child.

They now test for more than 30 conditions, but due to the advances in technology they still only need the same blood as when they used to test for just 3 or 4 conditions.

HTH,

Kate

[Trillian]

Another alternative would be to feed your baby while they do it.

[Inanna]

I actually don't like the feeding while doing the test Trill. I worry about the association between the hell***** and the breast so soon after birth... That's just my wierd take on it though.

[Trillian]

1. *Do we need to complete a Conscientious Objector form if we intend on saying No to the Hep B vaccine at birth? Do I need to do this before the birth, or is it okay just to say "No" at the birth (and in our Birth Plan, etc)? Likewise, is saying No to the Vitamin K dose at birth considered a conscientious objection, or just a routine "No." Ie. Will the midwives at the hospital accept our decision or do we need a CO form for this?

When you book in at the hospital they will talk you through it and give you a few leaflets. You will also have to sign saying that you agree for your child to have the vaccination. I can't remember though if you could sign for a 'no' option but you wont need an actual CO form for it.

2. Do we need to complete a Conscientious Objector form if we intend to say no to some vaccines and yes to others?

It will probably be easier to do this so you don't have an issue with the ones you don't get.

3. (If yes to either of the above) Do both DH and I need to sign the CO form, and do we both need to attend an appointment with our GP to sign this form? (This isn't a problem, we'll be making a joint decision, but I just need to know whether DH needs to come to the appointment).

No, you don't both have to sign it. DH did not sign the one for DS2. I went to my GP and got one, but you can download it. Not sure if a MCHN can sign off on it (GP needs to sign too as well as the parents) So your DH wont need to go to the appt.

4. I've been reading about the Vitamin K injection/oral dose and am a bit conflicted...I'd be interested in hearing some personal stories about why others said yes or no to the Vitamin K dose at birth, and if the answer was yes, whether and why you chose the injection or the oral dose.

I think that the main reason for the oral dose is so that a newborn baby doesn't have to have a needle kwim? More of a gentle option. You can also choose to delay it for a few days too. You will need to check that your hospital/birthcentre even has the oral dose as some do not carry it in stock. My hospital did not have the oral dose.


5. If you said no to the Vitamin K dose, did you supplement your own diet in order that Baby received extra Vitamin K through your breastmilk?

6. And one more (for today)...am I alone in being a bit apprehensive about the Heel Test done on my baby (where the baby's heel is jabbed a few days after birth to test for rare genetic deformities). Have others refused this test, and why/why not?

I think the PKU test is helpful because if there is an issue with your baby not having the enzyme needed to use phenylalanine (an amino acid) they will require a special diet to prevent further health issues. If you don't have it done at birth, it can be done via a urine test if bubs is over 6wks. I do not know if that test would be as accurate as the blood test though.