Wooo - what's going on?
Sent a message a little while back and now it looks like a heated debate?
It's a personal choice.
Google the info and way up the pro's and con's
Think everyone needs a good night sleep and agree to disagree:think:
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Wooo - what's going on?
Sent a message a little while back and now it looks like a heated debate?
It's a personal choice.
Google the info and way up the pro's and con's
Think everyone needs a good night sleep and agree to disagree:think:
Opps, on that note I'd like to say my repeated question marks are coming across like I'm standing here demanding answers like an old school marm. Gonna go add some smileys!
:lol: Point duly noted Lulu.
I don't understand the point being made about unvaccinated children posing a threat to vaccinated children. Surely, if vaccinations are the be all and end all, the vaccinated children shouldn't have a problem?! And what about people like my sister, who has had both the chicken pox AND the vaccine, yet continues to get chicken pox - is it their fault if they pass on the disease?
I agree with Lulu and Melbel 500% that children are far more in danger from parents who insist on taking their children to public places when they are clearly sick than they are from children who's parents have made the informed, reasoned choice to vaccinate homeopathically. Honestly, I am offended by the implication that I have not researched and thought out my decision to not vaccinate my future children as per government guidelines.
*Trying desperately to be unemotional and not 'shirty', but possibly failing miserably, in which case PM me :)
Did you quarantine them two days before they showed any sign of illness? Mumps, & most viruses, are infectious before any symptoms are displayed. For mumps, depending on the source of the info, the contagious period starts anywhere from 2 to 6 days before obvious symptoms.:
Lulu, you're the exception, not the rule.
The ultimate aim of vaccinations is to elimate a disease from a population like polio & smallpox have been in Australia. If enough people in a population are vaccinated against a disease then the disease may pop up occasionally but cannot get a foothold in that group because there will be herd immunity. When more people are not vaccinated, the disease can get into a population and stay around, infecting people who don't have any resistance to the disease with devistating effect. While vaccinations cannot make a person totally impervious to a disease, it can lesson the ramifications which for some diseases - worst case scenario is death.
While you may do the right thing in quaranting your child when sick, wouldn't you rather your child didn't catch that disease in the first place? I know I would. What about when your child grows up? The diseases can be much more severe when caught in adulthood. Mumps can cause infertility, chicken pox laid my husband sick & off work for 5 weeks, rubella can cause birth defects when non-immune pregnant women are exposed to it.
Sunflowa_Girlie, do your beliefs play a part in this decision? *Honestly interested, not being shirty, just wanting to understand more where you are coming from.*
TBH, I only recently learned that they do, when I started looking into the ingredients in some of the vaccines. Obviously it doesn't say in the Bible to or not vaccinate, so my decision is based on my own research, both into the Bible and into scientific matters.
Having said that, I was already uncomfortable with the idea of vaccinations as per the government schedule BEFORE I learned about some of the ingredients, such as animal placenta, some being cultured in animal blood etc - finding that out was pretty much the clincher. Again, this is a conscience matter for those following my beliefs - my parents got myself and all my sisters fully vaccinated, as was their right.
For myself, this also means that I will not accept certain anti-venoms and the tetanus shot. This is because they are cultured in animal blood, and therefore, given the Bible's stance on blood, I feel they are unacceptable for me.
No offence taken Winter, definitely a relevant question, and one I am happy to answer :)
Thanks for answering Sunny! :)
ok so i have finally just finished reading all 8 pages and there i must admit that i am thinking i would like not to vaccinate however i probably will due to the fact im lazy and i dont have enough time or energy to put in the effort to find other ways to build their immune system....
sunflowa just wondering if u could pm me on what the bible says on the blood stuff im very curious on that....
i do see both sides of this argument im abit confused on the fact that if vaccinated ppl are still getting the illness theyre vaccinated from doesnt that mean that it didnt really work....but also im thinking that if your vaccinated you may get a lesser effect than someone who isnt vaccinated
Not sure what the WHO is but did we find out if those stats were for just australia or the whole world because if they wre for the whole world i understand how it may be less relevant to us as we have a very small population in comparison to most places.....
my views on having read this is that i will go and talk to my GP who is my regular and i think is very knowledgable about delaying her next needles because i do find it alil concerning that they do give doses for the age not the weight esp as i have had 3 premmies and my current was only 3.3kg at 10 weeks old so to have her getting the same doses as a baby that could be double that weight i find very obsurd.....
Lulu i must admit i am one of the ppl who lets the kids out with a runny nose if its clear and i do often go out with a cough:redface: not the cough up a lung but i seem to get an itchy throat very easily so often have a cough and not sick...but i was vaccinated as a child and i have always gotten sick easily with colds and flus and still got chicken pox
Lulu just wondering if theres a known think like there was at the daycare do you take ur kids out asap for the time period or wait til they show symptoms just wondering from when someone said but did you take them out for the 2 days prior to the symptoms cos i thought u said you took them out asap
also wondering how if pl dont vaccinate their kids but build their immune systom with other methods how that effect the community...doesnt having a good immune system so not getting the illness work inthe same way as the vaccines so theres less risk of getting the illness
lastly i hope this is actually helping the original poster and whoever else may be curios....i will deff be seeking further info thanks to this thread
Sunflowa - do you (or does anyone who has utilised homeopathic vaccination) know of what research has been done on their efficacy? I found that when I was researching the decision to vaccinate I was not able to find any clinical research on the immunological effectiveness of homeopathy (as in, the take up rate of the vaccine compared to conventional vaccines).:
I would be interested to see any available research :).
On the subject of quarantining - this should be one of the tools we use to help control infection, and I believe that given the 'if you can stand, you can work' attitude of many employers, it should be mandated that (paid) leave be taken for the duration of an infectious disease. I also believe that there should be penalties for those who go to public places unnecessarily or do not take proper precautions when in public whilst infectious.
But given that the infectious stage of many diseases starts before symptoms, I don't think that quarantine alone can replace vaccination.
SG hun, I think everyone posting in this thread has made their informed desicion, and we'll all put a lot of thought into it. Making an informed desicion doesn't always mean the road less travelled. Thankyou for postin the info about the bible and blood products- honestly, that had nver occured to me as a reason for not vaccinating, but I completeley see your point.
Vaccinations are definitley not the be all and end all. They don't guarentee total immunity. They do, in most cases, reduce the risk of catching the disease and limit the severity of it, because the body's immune system has already been exposed to the disease, and has (in theory) built up it's own immunity. Doesn't guarentee anything- my brother was (I think) vaccinated against varicella (chicken pox) and still manged to catch it three times :rolleyes:
Lulu, I get your point about normal childhood illnesses, espcially in relation to the measles and chicken pox. that was one point that made me think twice about vaccinating. But I think diseases like polio also need to be taken into consideration- they can be much nastier than measles or CP. There have been next to no cases of polio in Australia in thelast 40 years (in faqct, from memory, the only cases have been where people who are immuno suppressed have come into contact with people who have recently been vaccinated). But that is because of vaccinating, not in spite of it.
Oops, what I meant to say was 'vaccinate homeopathically or not at all.' TBH, I haven't actually tried to research homeopathic vaccinating yet, I'm still researching common vaccines!:
:) I think I've come across the wrong way, and it serves me right for posting when I was so tired! I didn't mean to imply that parents who DO vaccinate haven't researched their own choice - I was just saying that just because one parents does the research and is comfortable with it, an another parents does the research and is NOT comfortable with it, doesn't mean that one of them is wrong or stupid. I'm kinda getting the feeling in this thread that its become/becoming a 'right/wrong' mentality, when it should just be a discussion of differing ideas, with respect to the decisions each of us have made ITMS :):
:loveshower: Flowers and love for all, please don't flame me :)
Never darling, hope what I posted didn't sound nasty beacuse it totally wasn't meant to be :hug::
Yes, I was pondering that too.:
I totally agree, quarantining will reduce the risk of a disease spreading, but there is still risk because the person infected is contagious before symptoms are present.:
As has been said before, sometimes vaccination is not about protecting the person that's being vaccinated but other people in our society that can't be safely vaccinated, like unborn and newborn children and immuno-suppressed people. Back to the importance of maintaining herd immunity again.:
Just on the rubella- my ds contracted that at about 7 months old, probably from me, and I probably got it from the hospital. MMR is not offered until 12 months, so he caught it despite me being a 'vaxxer'. And it did annoy me that I didn't have the option of not giving him the rubella vaccination after he had already had the infection (so the vax is null and void) because MMR is an 'all ornothing' in Aus, and not available seperate unless ordered from overseas.
Had my ds had been in the incubation stages of the rubella virus, and the vaxxed against it anyway, the consequences could have been dire. But that is a risk we all choose to take if we choose to vaccinate.
Winter - I don't mind if they catch certain things, especially for the fact the severity of the effects in adulthood. But like I said if they catch something it stops with me. What rule am I an exception to though? Do you think all non vaccers don't care about prevention and spreading of disease? I know far more vaccers that think their children are invincible because they consider them "immunised".
Entreat, I daresay the person who brought the mumps to playgroup should have quarantined themselves a little better after returning from os. That's more of a problem than me not vaccing isn't it?
Also the kids were not in daycare. That's a decision I made for them whilst they were younger, but more more the fact other parents send their children whilst sick with whatever..not just CP etc.
I took them to a weekly playgroup. Whilst they were young I minimised exposure. I spoke to the health dept whilst they were sick AND after. They track certain diseases - there were no further reports of mumps being spread from MY END. If I just thought - oh it's a runny nose lets go to the shop it might have been a different story, but I don't do that. Even if it's just a running nose.
When I was in hospital many moons ago, the lady in the bed opposite me nearly missed a heart transplant because some idiot relative gave her a cold when she visited in the hospital.
People spread disease ALL THE TIME but because I don't vacc I appear to carry the load for everyone.
Polio - no there haven't been any cases in Aus for a long time. I re-researched this a year or so ago...and came across a statement by the very maker/discoverer saying he believed the vacc did more harm than good.
It really feels that because I don't vacc you guys (you know who you are :nahnah:) seem to think I am stupid and taking nothing into consideration. This is not an "up yours" to the establishment, I don't wear foil hats (cept on Tuesdays). Clearly I have given this a great deal of thought and it's something I review from time to time but AGAIN - the likelihood of death from these illnesses is very low.
Foil hats - in my research over the years a have come across way too much evidence of pharma companies and their crappy methods. The mistakes..and also the fact heaps of the vaccs are grown on primate kidneys blleeuuugh! That is wrong on so many levels - but also the cause of the spread of many diseases in the early days, record levels of leukemia HIV etc. Have companies like Merck all of a sudden grown a conscience or morals?
How can you have faith in that?
It's not just one reason, but many that I choose not to vacc. It's not an easy decision to make and doesn't always sit well when it comes to eradicating awful disease - but I'm not spreading anything and that's the best I can do for everyone.
herd immunity seems to be a moot point here in Australia really. With vaccination rates above 90% (latest WHO data from 2008) for pretty much all vaccinations (except interestingly enough for the second dose of measles vaccine - MCV2 - maybe we get blase when our kids are no longer babies lol!) we've pretty much achieved it. Latest outbreaks of whooping cough and measles etc on a global scale have been found to be caused mostly by those that missed their second immunisation dose. I think it can get hairy when we refer to these as 'booster' shots. ppl may have the impression that if they vax'd their kids as babies then it's ok enough and any second shot is just 'boosting' and double checking. but IMHO it is the 'booster' shots that should be getting the focus. these are the vaccinations that are in ya for the long run. anything before is there really to just protect your child (part of the UNICEF and WHO campaign to reduce infant deaths under the age of 5). if we really want to protect the community as a whole, parents, older siblings etc need to make sure that they are protected and immunised. And more often than they are the ones that are not.
And i'd also like to make the point that even if you are vaccinated care still needs to be taken. for example, Rubella is a sneaky little thing with my body and i just dont have immunity to it. ever. didnt even realise this was the case until routine blood tests revealed my dirty little secret! and in fact, i think this makes me a little more 'dangerous'...i really thought i had immunity to it and would not pose any risk to anybody. so have never thought to look out for signs or symptoms...
:rofl: you crack me up.:
I don't wear foil hats (cept on Tuesdays).
I know I am harping on something that was brought up a while ago but does anyone know where the whole banana and formaldahyde thing came from? The only links I can find at sprouted in discussions such as this one - where did it originally come from? Or sites (including state and federal public health sites) discussing the reasons to avoid formaldahyde in commerical applications??? - thanks so much just interested
I don't know Saram. I do know the sprays used on bananas to control pests have formaldehyde and so therefore commercial bananans have a higher concentration.
However fruit being a living food will have a content all on its own as well...:hug:
Can i throw a spanner in the works here...
Now i have NO facts on what I'm about to say but it's something that has been bugging me...
We all know about the swineflu and birdflu issues which have been in the news recently and over the years...
Could we be opening ourselves up to animal diseases because we are now injecting ourselves with vacines that have been processed using animal proteins/parts...
Is our DNA/RNA being damaged/mutating/splicing and joining with the DNA/RNA of animals used in the vaccines and hence putting us at risk to these "new" viruses from animals?
Just food for thought?
OK, for anyone interested I found this link here Fruit Chart | Nutrient chart | Vitamins and minerals in common fruits and I think the reference for the formaldehyde in bananas came from the very first google link here Autism Blog - Green This Left Brain/Right Brain but most of that would come from contamination from agricultural chemcials, thus the formaldehyde can be avoided by eating organic fruit. So I think the person who posted that gem in the first place maybe should have done a bit of research on it first instead of posting the first available link.
Cassius2, I don't think we should be taking herd immunity for granted here in Australia. In the Northern Rivers region of NSW vaccination rates are down to around 80%.
Already have been, it's been going on for years. As far as I know it's how all vaccs were grown.:
I find it hard to keep track of what everyone is saying and juggling my 5 kids - so pardon me if this sounds disjointed!
Entreat - I don't condone nor I am sure does anyone that children in third world countries could develop autisim from the vaccines. I don't understand how that connection is made.
I have said it ad infinitum. I can see the benefits of having the herd vaccinated weather that is in Australia or in Tanzania. The pros are that there is less prevalence of disease. I don't think that can be disputed and I certainly have not done so.
I understand this well & as such I have been a fence sitter - but after my experience with Imogen I got off the fence and put my foot firmly in no. All my reasons I have said so you all understand me I am sure.
It is not as simplistic as you don't immunise so therefore you don't care about other peoples children. Or you don't immunise and therefore you don't care about children in third world countries developing autisim. I care deeply about all children and this rather callous and careless parallel is disturbing to me.
I ask you all would you immunise if you had experienced what I and others have? Would you if you noticed marked differences, if you observed severe reactions - would you continue to immunise? Maybe you would. For me I chose no and I chose to research. Threr are some very strident posters in here that are saying there is no proven link so therefore it's safe. I say there are too many many reports from parents, and professionals to discount it. this coupled with my own experience I say no. Someone mentioned talking to a GP. Interestingly it's been my experience that GP's just give you the: vaccinate it's the only way" spiel. However the paeds are quite different. No paed after learning of DD14 diagnosis pushed imunisation on me. They all said: "yes, I would be careful too"... "keep her away from all the illness that people send their kids out the door with - and maybe look at immunisation when she is much older'... Because I guess the paeds see so many that have reactions and ASD. I have spoken at length with about 5 paeds and all of them supported my decision. Just an interesting difference between the GP's who all have said it is not a good deciison not to vax...
As for my unimmunised children putting at risk your immunised ones... That's not my experience. Someone mentioned Lulu's stance at quarantining her children as being unusual. See again that's not my experience. I certainly do so as well. So do all - and that's a big statement but I have gone through the families I know personally who do not immunise (actually almost all!) and they quarantine their kids.
I made a conscious decision not to put my children in child care (for many reasons not just because of their status) - so they do not have to be quarantined from that. Our school has only about 20% immunisation rate & has had the lowest reports of childhood illness of any school in the area!
People who don't immunise are consciously choosing this as it is a belief that it is better for their childs body/spirit... People who don't immunise research out alternatives, work hard at boosting thier childs constitution, work hard at providing foods to fight illness etc etc.
Of course so do parents who don't immunise - I just need to highlight that we don't not immunise & then let them run free on a diet of nutra grain!
Because they are not immunised we are careful for them not to come into contact with illness - we are aware of how illnesses spread (due to the exhaustive study on this!) etc etc.
I can see that vaccination programs have halted the spread of disease worldwide. These children have been spared from death from childhood illness... Many have survived to then die of thirst, famine and war... That however is a whole other thread.
Like Gillian I was shocked at how angry the thread became late last night. Pitting parent against parent in a bid to be "right"... To me we are, none of us, right. We are (many of us) conflicted.
Lulu - could we be then setting ourselves and future generations up to fail as we battle on to fight off diseases we naturally/normally wouldn't have got if we just hadn't vaccinated.
Like I've said before it's a tricky situation. We want to protect our children but do we really know ALL the risks. Wouldn't homeopathic rememdies be better as it doesn't get run through other "creatures" proteins/organs?
We can still then "immunise" naturally but without the risk of damaging our own DNA...
It will still acheive the same goal surely...? A "protected" / a nation with the immunity to all these diseases?
Unless there are other motives. :think:
I feel all the options should be made more clearly and be more readily available to pregnant and new moms and as I've said let it be a personal choice and not one where people are fighting against each other but for the same outcome/cause... happy healthy children and future generations.
Just about the whole 'you don't vacc but think vaccing 3rd world kids is OK issue' I admit that I did struggle with that. I even started a thread about it in the Ethical and Aware living forum because I buy Sunrice rice to support Australian rice farmers, but they have started putting on the packets that a percentage goes to UNICEF to help fund their vaccination program in the Pacific Islands. Now I came to the conclusion that these kids really do need to be vaccinated because by and large they are isolated from the rest of the world, so they wouldn't have a lot of 'mainstream' diseases like measles, chicken pox and the like but the world is becomming smaller and smaller in terms of tourism, so someone entering these counties, that for all intents and purposes is immune, could still be a carrier and the fallout of these illnesses being brought into these countries in this way is just unthinkable. It would be a total devastation not unlike when nations were settled centuries ago and brought with them their smallpox and typhoids etc and wiped out entire populations of native people. Sure it may not be on that scale as they do have access to some health care but for most it would mean the end.
So it's not hypocritical to want to protect people who have absolutely zero defenses against these illnesses because they are the ones who will die because for the simple reason that 1 they have no previously been exposed to it and 2 because the conditions that they live in mean that disease is already rampant so their immune systems are fighting 10 times harder than ours are every single day of their lives just so they are able to deal with the day to day living conditions.
And no one answered my question from a few pages ago. Does anyone who does vaccinated have their children or themselves tested to see if they do have immunity or not? Because it is not failsafe to believe that having a vaccination alone will give you coverage. like was mentioned earlier, vaccinations only have a 60% success rate (I think?) so how do you know that your children are not in the 40% who it didn't work for? You cannot assume that because your child is vaccinated that they can not possibly be potential carriers of disease.
Trill the assumption is just made that the titres are high enough to provide immunity. I don't think docs would test for immunity simply due to the cost!
I would like to know the rate of successful immunisation though. As every single child I know that has had Chicken Pox has been imunised! In my daughters class at school out of 21 children only 5 are immunised. 3 of those 5 had CP a few months ago - none of the unimunised ones did!
So maybe the CP vax isn't very successful at sero conversion?
I agree vaccinations aren't failsafe. I have made my mind up about what I want to do and I think the issues have been discussed over and over again in this thread so I am not going to go into all that.
I think what I am getting from all of this and an important message for EVERYONE (vaccinated or not) is that if your kids are sick, keep them at home. Probably not the purpose of the original post but a very valid message for everyone. I think this is probably more community minded than vaccinating or not.
Interesting discussion which has made me think but at the end of the day, I am still very happy with the decision that I have made :)
Very very wise TG. I agree that we would all be healthier if everyone kept themselves and their kids isolated when they have a runny nose, sore belly etc etc etc.
Well I guess that's the issue then Deb, everyone should just treat themselves as if they are unvaccinated because they can't really prove otherwise can they? And that if/when they did get one of these illnesses then they should just stay home because surely that would be more of a social responsibility than by merely having the vaccination in the first place? And how would you know that you not getting an illness is because of the vaccination or because you have a kick-ass immune system in the first place? I know my immune system works 10 times harder than other peoples because I have psoriasis, which is an autoimmune disease and it wasn't until I started doing a bit of research into it that I realised that this is why I never get sick. It wasn't till I started immunosuppressants to treat the psoriasis that I got the flu twice in a month plus various other gastro bugs as well as hayfever being a total PITA this year for me. And speaking with other psoriasis sufferers on a site I frequent they all don't get sick either except for when taking immunosupressants.
I came up against this when I had Immy. I had a friend (THE friend!!) who immunised all her kids for evrything there was an immunisation for. She would come around and say: DS has a cold but it's only a cold it won't hurt"! She was so certain that her kids wouldn't have anything too serious (her measure of serious) as they were immunised. Now, a cold was enough to put Immy in hospital and in fact is what caused her respiratory arrest.
She is one of those that her kids have runny noses and they are at school, holding other peoples babies etc etc. They all got CP. They all got Measles. They all get everything that is going around...
Lulu hun I definitely don't think you,or anyone else who has posted here, is stupid. We've all weighed up the risks and done our research (hopefully beyond the first page of Google;)) and make the desicion we think is best, with all our mitigating personal factors thrown in. There can't really be a right or wrong here, because there are so many variables- like daycare, workplaces, history of autism. As long as people have made their desicion off their won backs, rather than blindly jabbing kids because the gp says so, I don't think we can ask for any more than that :D
And definitley agreeing with JM- sick kids (or adults) shouldn'tbe out in public, spreading germs. I think the perception of vaccination meaning your kids are bulletproof needs to change- that's what I was saying earlier about using 'vaccination' rather than 'immunisation'. It seems that with all the medical 'cures' we have floating around these days, people forget that the first defences are simple things- staying home if you're sick, covering your mouth when you cough, washing your hands frequently, etc, etc...
I have been lurking for a while but I had to reply to the 3rd world comment
I come from the POV of a someone who does not fully vaccinate - myself or my DS. If I don't choose vaccinations for my child then why would I support vaccinations for 3rd world children? Because I support their right to have a choice of using vaccinations. I support their right to have access to the same medicines (preventative or treatment) that we have here. That is why I support vaccination programs in less developed countries. I also support their right to have access to vaccines and still choose not to use them.
I think vaccination is an individual decision and personally I'm pro. To me, the risk of an adverse reaction to a vaccine is less than the risks associated with my child getting one of the dreaded diseases. I must admit I was a little unsure about the MMR but when I researched it I found it can be a trigger to children who are already susseptable to autism, but the autism can also be triggered if that child gets a virus or if the mother has had a virus during pregnancy.
The clincher on being pro vax for me was someone I know birthing a perfectly healthy baby who never made it home from hospital because he contracted pertusis (whooping cough) obviously by an unvaccinated care giver or family member whilst in hospital and the poor little man never made it out the front door of the hospital. This was not many years ago either.
And as for sick kids staying home, my story above clearly indicates that so should sick adults. But so many people in this day and age just don't stop, take a few pain killers and soldier on. Thus spreading disease and putting our children and ourselves at risk. In saying this though, most people are contageous during the incubation period when they do not even know they have a virus/disease so the damage can already be done. It's usually too late by the time the temp or the runny nose appears. Just another reason why Vaccination is peace of mind for me. But like I said JMO.
Just as an aside, the transfer of disease from animals to humans has been around for a really long time, the Bubonic plague was actually transferred from rats to humans way back then so it's not a new thing.:
The influenza viruses at the moment (swine and bird flu etc) are just normal strains of influenza (but have a few different virulence factors which makes them more dangerous) that have mutated and then transferred back to us :D
I have to say, I am pro vax but if I had been through or seen any of the things some of the ladies have I am almost positive I would not vaccinate.
And that is despite my medical science education!
Mara, as been said and agreed on often vaccination does not mean you cannot catch whooping cough. There is no reason to believe this person was unvaccinated, in fact it may well have been the case they WERE vacc'd and felt they were safe.:
Despite very high vacc statuses in particular countries there are still epidemics of same.
Actually, that's been bothering me for a while Lulu. there is currently an epidemic of whooping cough (in NSW? or Australia wide? can't remember). It's being informally blamed on 'so many people not vaccinating'. But are vaccinations level are at about 90%, and I imagine the number of people who have got their booster shots has increased, due to a campaign of awareness for parents and granparents.
And yet we still have an epidemic, that's been going on for at least a year now, possibly 18 months if my memory serves me correctly :think: I'm sure I'm missing something here, because that just doesn't add up. Another one of my reservations about vaccinations (yep, for someone who vaccinates, I have a stack of fears and unanswered questions).
Yes i noticed a lot of the links in banana and formaldahyde were about the spraying of a pesticide and use preserving the leaves for making textiles and I agree that formldahyde is a byproduct of cycles in most living things but to say that a banana has that much in it - seems a stretch? I mean a banana is not a big fruit??? So just wondering where it was originally touted. I did find what I thought was the first instance where a "scientist" spoke to media in rebutal of the vax cause autism claim of Jim Carey and wife where the "scientist" stated that a banana had 1/20th what was in the vaccines to age 6 but I have also come across many instances where scientitst and lay people use interesting and twisted little facts such as these to make a point.:
I also found links to formaldahyde in ethonol ripened fruit and this make more sense to me as formaldahyde is part of the menthanol cycle so perhaps this is where the stats were coming from??? The reason I am wondering is my son and my nephew are both on the austic spectrum and both his mum and I have seperately realised that our boys eating bananas, particularly overripe banans contributes greatly to their autistic traits. I assumes this was due to an amine sensitivity (see fed up by sue dengate on food additives and naturally occuring food chemicals) but perhaps there is more to it??? :think:
Either way I am all for chemical free living and organic vegies all the way!!!
On the case of quarantining - OMG yes - lets spead that message!!! recently here we had a measles outbreak (interesting aside 98% vac rate in my town and we had one of the worst measles outbreaks in Australia) Anyway DD not immunised we avoided going out JIC. Did go to the shopping centre to buy food as one must do and here is a family (mum and dad and DD) with DD in a shopping trolley covered in measles rash, eyes blood shot looking like death warmed up. I walked in took one look at her and ran screaming for the car! Made me soooo mad! yes it is my choice not to vaccinate but as many have said just because one is vaccnated does not mean you have 100% coverage, particulalry during an outbreak where they may be strain differences - not to mention the poor little darling needed to be at home resting!
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I have read that pertusis immunisation or natural infection does not guarantee immunity - particularly after 5 years. I guess that's why health care workers need to have periodic immunology BT's to check immunity status.
Saram I had a mum at the playground the other day showing off her daughters rash on her belly, asking people if they thought they knew what it was *shudders*. Irresponsible.
Just to answer Trillian's question, I actually asked my gp about testing ds's immuntiy to rubella before vaccinating him, seeing as he'd already had it. he looked at my like I was hysterical and asked if I really wanted to subject my one year old to a blood test as well as a needle :doh: (good point, considering the MMR is an all in one). It's never occurred to me ask to see if he is immune to the things he was vaccinated against. I keep very firmly in mind that, vaccinated or not, you still need to be very careful. TBH, I don't vaccinate in the hope that my child won't catch the illness at all, because I know that is not the way it works, just in the hope that if they do catch it it will be a much milder dose than if they were not vaccinated. I think it's because in those years working at the hospital, I saw a lot of kids who were suffering dreadfully from the effects of chicken pox, measles, whooping cough. And only one that had had a severe reaction to an immunisation. Obviously that's only from my perspective- I wasn't medical staff, and had no knowledge of who had what or how severely (or if they were vaccinated ;)) apart from what i heard off the kids and parents, so don't think I'm offering this as something scientific or factual. But it did effect me enough to want to vaccinate, in the same way that the personal experiences of others may have efffected them enough to not want to vaccinate (iykwim, that was a bit of a ramble!)