what's coming up next?!?!?!? natural pain relief? i need this as my ob asked me if i'm not going to use an epidural then what am i going to use instead?
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what's coming up next?!?!?!? natural pain relief? i need this as my ob asked me if i'm not going to use an epidural then what am i going to use instead?
Diva, I just wanted to clarify something:
Adrenaline pumps when the parasympathetic nervous system is working - that's your fight or flight response. Certain body functions go into a 'freeze', diverting blood flow to only the vital organs so that you can theoretically 'flee' the danger that you're telling your body you are in. Yogababy mentioned this in her post about hormones, I'm just going over it in terms of the parasympathetic nervous system and the function it performs.
Endorphins are released within the sympathetic nervous system, and because the parasympathetic and sympathetic never operate simultaneously, never the twain ought to meet, so to speak. The sympathetic nervous system gets your digestion going, blood flowing etc.
During sex and childbirth (funny how they're related, but pregnant women are not allowed to be sexy!!) both systems do a little dance where they take it in turns to work. It's endorphins for most of it, then right at the end (orgasm and baby expulsion) adrenaline kicks in to finish off the job. And you don't need to work on getting the adrenaline working, it will happen by itself if there's no drug intervention (same for endorphins - drugs interfere with their production by replacing them, it's like sending in drones so that the real thing has no job anymore cos the drones take over). The endorphins, in an age where childbirth stories are riddled with fear and horror messages, need a bit more coaxing and training to come out - hence CalmBirthing and HypnoBirthing and preggy yoga practice etc!
I just thought I'd give you a bigger picture of the adrenaline an endorphin exchange, so that you can have more faith that no matter how big that gland, it can't hurt you while endorphins are playing...kind of like sharks won't hang around where dolphins are, if that helps!
Geez, second year psych has really come in handy!
well said Mayaness :)
yep Gracie, next is natural pain relief...let me know if you have Q's
ok to finish off the thread topic...:)
so I have talked about the uterus, the importance of hormones, the outline of labor and birth and why we feel pain...now natural pain relief
again Kelly has a few different articles for further info :)
Natural methods of pain relief on a number of factors
1. gate control theory...I have already put this in the thread (somewhere)...but basically you can shut the 'gate' to the cervix nerve impulses in the spinal cord (before they reach the brain and are interpretted as a painful or intense senstation) by stimulating other nerve impulses that flood the 'gate'...these nerve impulses can be triggered by light touch/massage/counter pressure to the skin...in particular the lower back/sacrum...TENS (Kelly has info in the articles)
2. endorphin release...our wonderful natural pain relief...is encouraged by feelings of safety, security, calm etc...so familiar smells (aromatherapy), sounds (music) and regular relaxed breathing (just simple in and out...no holding the breath or tensing the breath)
3. distraction...flooding the brain with other sensory stimulation to process...vocalising/chanting (which also encourages great breathing), rhythmic patting (not 'smacking' your partner ;) on a surface or rocking (pelvic rock), again music, key words that your support person uses to help refocus you during a contraction
I will pop this up...and write one on HypnoBirthing now :)
xx yogababy
HypnoBirthing (im talking in particular about BirthSkills) is a method of learning to relax the conscious mind and release fears surrounding childbirth/pregnancy/mothering, to allow you to work with your body to birth your beautiful baby.
It is sooooo very important to choose and empowered support team...fearless, supportive, encouraging, nurturing...
HypnoBirthing is a different expereince for every woman...every birth. For some it may mean no pain...others it will mean an intense experience but no fear...birth is very personal, and to expect the same result with every labor and birth would not be realistic
Natural methods of pain relief work in conjunction with a calm and relaxed mother, a supportive and nurturing support team/partner and a caregiver who will simply sit and observe, wait and listen, guide and encourage
i hope this helps...please feel free to ask any questions...and thanks for showing interest, I really enjoyed writing up these posts
xx yogababy
Can't tell you how freaky that is, yogababy - just as I read your post I was listening to an online lecture...about gate control theory!
Got a wriggly kid who is NOT helping me write an essay...
Thanks for all this wonderful information yogababy and mayaness, it's quite hard sometimes to get an objective view of a whole range of things when you're living with disabilities, thank you for helping me stay positive ...
I have two illnesses GAD, and a personality disorder ... (just to tease Mayaness, it's the rarest one ;) , wonder if she can guess) ... so because my brain isn't wired the way everyone elses is, it sometimes throws up little pickadillioes that need dealing with in a special way.
I have never taken drugs for either one, I'm certainly not against them, but I feel that they are a "bandaid solution" for my own problems and instead have slogged through 4yrs of pyschotherapy (so sorry Mayaness again, you're unknowingly teaching someone to "suck eggs" :hug: )
So I'd be very interested in hearing all about Hypnotherapy, no doubt I've used some of the techniques in a different guise (I lurve distraction therapy in all it's forms) ... and I suppose I want to hear more about it to make sure that if we did go down that road it's the right "key" to unlock the complicated and messy lock that is my brain ... ;) ...
Phew! Why do I now feel like I've been on the Dr Phil show??? Or perhaps Jerry Springer??? :cryinglaugh:
**wanders off to find a chair to throw** ...
In THAT case, Diva, you've got the theory already, so I reckon your pesky adrenal gland can still be quieted with a goodly dose of practice with breathing and visualisation techniques!
Also, have you tried Emotional Freedom Technique? It works on your meridians whilst you unblock inhibitions and fears - worked for me :) Granted, I didn't have any condition that could be found in the DSM IV...that I know of...
(ETA: what I have posted thus far is paraphrasing what I learned and put into practice from my HypnoBirthing classes in April last year...and have since been confirmed by my study in my Grad Dip since I returned to school :) )
speaking of which, I'll get my hands on that diagnostic manual and see if I can find which disorder you have been diagnosed with!!
Hijacking thread now, will stop, sorry!
yogababy- my ob was telling me about the TENS machine, but then she said you can't use them and use water- i'm a big shower person so decided this wasn't a great idea. do you think TENS is really helpful?
Schizoid Personality disorder?
Avoidant Personality disorder?
I think they're the least common.
Hey Gracie
I have not personally used the TENS machine...but you can't use it in the shower or bath
it does require practice, as with anything, but women who have used do find it very effective...it works on the same principles of massage and counterpressure (which can be used in the bath and shower ;)) and the gate control theory
Have you thought about HypnoBirthing as an option?
xx yogababy
I just can't get enough of this info...
yogababy: I'd like to be the first to buy that book as soon as its published, or sooner!
I especially like the explanation of how the uterus works, and why we feel pain.
I don't know whats its called, but when I feel pain (which is regularly as I am quite clumsy... my specialty - picking up pans that have just come out of the oven with my bare hands... actually off-topic but anyway, I managed to chip my forearm bon in the toilet while pulling my pants up... lol, did that give you alla giggle?!?! Its funny now, but not really at the time!!!), I shut my eyes and imagine that it is not pain, and I just breath through it until it stops being pain. Is that something you can do in labour? I'm guessing it is, but wondering, does it have a name?
Actually, funny thing, I use music cues on a day to day basis. Usually it is because I am at uni, and get very nervous before an exam, or find it hard to concentreate if I have an assignment due, I listen to music in a relaxing place first, like in bed or in the bath, and train myself to relax when I hear the music, and then I take my iPod and before the exam, or while I am studying, I listen to the songs. I even sing them to myself in my head during the exam. I also take big breaths and imagine I'm breathing all the tension out. Works a treat!!!!! ;)
I have told Shel that this is what I will be doing - music cues to help relaxation. But I thought it was jsut something I had made up, and that it probably wouldn't work! Thanks for all this info, its really great.
I feel so confident that I can have a natural, intervention-free, drug-free birth (when I actually get pregnant and up to the stage of actually giving birth!!!), even if people around me seem to think otherwise!
Hey leasha
"I shut my eyes and imagine that it is not pain, and I just breath through it until it stops being pain."
thats exactly it :)...
thanks for the confidence boost re my book :)
I do have a couple of manuals available for when you do get pregnant :)
just click on the link on my signature and that will take you thru to my web page
xx yogababy
Here are some simple breathing exercises that you can practise for labor and birth
1. relaxation breathing
take a full breath in, and relax the breath out...visualise relaxing the body, softening the face
this type of breathing is great for early stage of labor, calming and focusing...and is also excellent for any time when you are feeling a bit overwhelmed (such as the first few weeks as a new mummy ;))
2. controlled breathing
this helps during a contraction...visualise the contraction as a wave that you need to float up and over, breathing steadily and calmly with the wave as it rises to its peak and then allow the breath to relax as you move down the otherside of the wave
labor is like a hill...take it one step at a time, work with your body, maximise the work of your breathing to facilitate oxygen intake and hormone release
3. birth breathing
fouses on releasing your pelvic floors
practise on the toilet...as you can then really let the pelvic floor relax ;)
with an exhalation, gently bring the lips together and slowly release the breath as you would blowing on an imaginary feather...as you do this focus on relaxing the pelvic floor, releasing tension.
this helps not only create pelvic floor awareness, which helps promote pelvic floor tone, but also facilitates the 2nd stage...delivery of your baby :)
xx yogababy
I was told to practice birth breathing only in the last couple of weeks of pregnancy, when I would be officially 'term'...and only on the toilet. What are your thoughts on this, Yogababy?
I ended up having no issues with my pelvic floor at all, before or after the birth :)
Hey Mayaness
nice to hear from you...you always ask great Q's :)...I'm always up for a curly one
birth breathing certainly will not do you any harm at any stage of your pregnancy, but most women find it easier to visualise the pelvic floor releasing for birth when they are close to term
often we are taught how to hold the pelvic floor but not how to relax it...I have even had new mums explain the reason for their C/s was due to tight pelvic floor muscles...mmm
again with pelvic floor exercises it is pretty hard to know how it work the muscle if you are unable to relax the muscle
birth breathing helps a woman to become aware of how everything is related to the pelvic floor, and also helps mentally prepare for the work of birth...and most of the time if you are aware of your pelvic floor you will have great tone
xx yogababy
That makes sense :) Actually, my horseriding probably helped me there. The whole 'riding with your seat' concept has me using and relaxing my PF every time I ride - you really get an awareness of how strong that area is when you ONLY use your PF to get a horse to slow down or stop! And of course, as you don't want to be telling the horse to slow down or stop all the time, you need to then also learn how to relax the damn area...
I still find myself using birth breathing when I find myself 'straining' on the loo when I have a limited time to do my business and DS is getting himself into trouble somewhere in the house!
LOL at birth breathing on the loo Mayaness! Have to admit I've done the same LOL.
This is a fantastic thread - but I only just found it! Where was I?? But you know what - I'm pretty impressed with myself, that I kinda knew most of it already! I can only be eternally grateful to the articles and discussions I've read here on BB.. I didnt' buy any cds or tools or books or anything! (I have recently got the Pink Kit.. but it's still in the packaging LOL). I didn't know the exact workings of the uterus, ie that the uterus itself shouldn't feel pain.. but I knew it was the cervix that was doing the 'painful' work.. and I found during labour that knowing the pain was working for me was what got me through.
TBH - I can't imagine myself looking for actual methods of pain relief. In labour I had NO desire to be massaged, nor any desire to even look at the shower or bath! I simply went into myself, breathed, and got through each contraction - knowing that my body was working, and that each contraction would end is what got me through. (Perhaps I am naturally using some kind of technique that people read up on??) The last thing I'd be wanting to do in labour is remember how to do something LOL.. I just took each contraction as it came, swayed & breathed through it. Interesting about instinctively leaning forward. Admittedly during transition I was lying down and sleeping for 30 secs between contractions thinking I was gonna die if they told me I was only half way! LOL.
You asked of people's experience. My experience of labour was.. 1st stage up to 3cm happened at home over a few days I guess. My bowels cleaned themselves out well & truly, lost my plug at the same time, and those stomach cramps became fairly regular contractions. That all died down for.. maybe 12 hrs or so? Occassional contraction here and there. It got going a bit more, then my waters broke.. and then everything stopped! (I was going to ask the same question about adrenaline & excitement actually :) ) The fact that I sat on the loo with all that gushing was like "oh wow - this is real now!" I was eventually hooked up to the drip to get things going (am going to avoid this next time - not that anythign went wrong.. would just like to avoid it!!) so my 'established' labour ended up only about 5 hrs. It was quite intense, but my breathing got me through. Chatting to DH inbetween contractions.. and watching him eat his lunch LOL. Perhaps the normalcy of DH doing these things helped me too? If he was constantly at me how he could help me, what could he do.. I would have gone nuts at him probably! But he was very calm, and just THERE for me. (Oh and he told off the midwife for me who kept offering me pain relief! LOL)
2nd stage - LOVED 2nd stage. Had no pain whatsoever.. just felt like I was pushing out a giant poo! It was such a relief to push.. and I was cracking jokes with my OB throughout - even he was impressed! hehehe.
3rd stage - I do have the injection for my own reasons, but it's interesting that you include the breastfeeding & bonding in this 'stage'.. never thought about it before, just thought about the placenta. I know this time I'll be more than confident enough to stick bub on the boob myself.. altho would love to give the breast crawl a go too :)
I'm looking forward to my next birth - curious to see how different it can be! I wonder if I experienced quite an intense birth last time.. waters already broken, so more pressure on the cervix PLUS being on the drip! Hopefully my waters will stay in tact and no drip.. and I'll get to 9/10cm without knowing! LMAO! (one can only hope hehehehe).
Think I do need to work on my breathing skills somewhat tho - I found coz I was breathing so deeply that it ended up hurting to breathe towards the end.. and that is what was exhausting me. Perhaps I need to work on my diaphragm or something?? (this is the main reason I grabbed a Pink Kit coz it has breathing stuff in it.. plus other useful info too!) Any advice on strengthening my breathing would be great :)
Oh - I have a question! Can the pain felt in labour co-relate to the afterbirth pains? If you've worked the uterus too hard during labour causing it to feel the pain when really it shouldn't, would this make it more sensitive & painful to contract after the birth? I had NO pains whatsoever with #1, but understand afterbirth pains get worse with each baby.. are there natural pain relief methods for afterbirth pains, or do we just pop the panadol?
The premise of learning the breathing, relaxation and visualisation techniques is that you practice them before the birth so that it becomes automatic - you don't have to 'remember' anything, you just go into it with a couple of simple cues that your birth partner can give you. If you're already doing it and not having a distressed birth, then it's no issue. I have a hard time relaxing normally, so I didn't want to take any chances and did my HB course, to make it sink into my brain!
Also, I had afterbirth pains for a few days, where I was taking voltaren before each BF from the uterus contracting. I had a managed 3rd stage because there was excessive bleeing and my excellent midwife (who up till then had done NO work :) ) decided she'd seen enough blood and it was time to intervene. DS was skin on skin the whole time. I'd had a great labour, so I don't think it's related to oxygen deprivation. JMO!
hmm ok.. I think I will read up a bit more on breathing. Be interesting to see if my technique fits in with the suggestions hehe. But it hurt so much during transition... right throughout my chest like my lungs had had enough! Perhpas I just need to deep breathe more before the birth to stretch em a bit! LOL. It was ok during pushing tho. Strange.
ETA: Maybe I should just get DH to stomp on my big toe to distract me from my breathing! LOL
Hey Liz
thanks so much for sharing :)
Mayaness was right in regards to the breathing, relaxation etc for birth...it is something that needs to be practised so your unconcious mind takes over, as opposed to having to think about it
I had some vague thoughts about laying on some warm sand when I was in the bath with my 2nd labor...imagining a safe body of water, feeling the warm sand, feel the gentle surges of the water etc, was all part of some of my hypnobirthing/ relaxation scripts
afterbirth pains are experienced with greater intensity with 2nd 3rd etc babies as the uterine muscle has to work a little harder to involute (get back to prebaby size), with most mum's experiencing some serious twinges with BF as this releases oxytocin which helps contract the uterus back to size...panadol is the option that works for alot of women :)
I am not really aware in any detail about natural methods to relieve involution pains...maybe someone else? Im sure there are some homeopathics that would be helpful
xxyogababy
I found the 'wave' visualisation a bit hard to do, because I kept putting myself at the crest, ready to catch a wave to surf it (it's been a good 5 years since I actually surfed last!)...not very helpful! I WILL, however, be using the gently lapping waves visual, thanks for that!
To follow on...I thought this is interesting :)
Research of Australian Womens Birth Expectations
Positive Expectations of birth
Women expect to have a normal, spontaneous vaginal delivery
Women believe birth is
A natural event
About doing it for yourself
About control and coping
About choice
About support
Is a fulfilling experience
Is simple and straight forward
Is about going with the flow
Having a healthy baby
Negative Expectations of birth
Birth is
Scary and frightening
A medical experience
Unexpected intervention
Painful, long and hard
Influences of our childbirth expectations
What we see and hear through media
Social perceptions
Family and friends
Midwives and doctors
Antenatal education
Lifestyle and age
Own beliefs, attitudes and expectations
Childbirth fear
Wellbeing of baby
Pain
Own wellbeing
Confidence in own ability
Treatment of staff
Changes to lifestyle
c/s
Social dimension of fear
fear of unknown
horror stories
fear of babys wellbeing
Personal dimension of fear
fear of pain
losing control
previous horror birth
speed of birth
A positive birth experience enforces
self confidence
dignity
allied with midwives
respected and nurtured
safe and supported
Fear for first time mothers
High fear leads to high epidural use
Antenatal classes increase fear
High fear leads to high medical intervention
I thought this was very interesting
xx yogababy:
Antenatal classes increase fear
ooh, that is interesting yogababy, why do you think that is? Seeing as I haven't been to any I have no ideas. What on earth are they doing in those classes? And what should we do? Avoid them?
it is very interesting...and it is also why I dont work much in the 'system' anymore...
I think it may have something to do with...not everyone who teaches antenatal classes like to do it...you really have to love teaching and be passionate to first get the class to be inspired and to capture their attention
also...antenatal classes can be just a whole heap of facts...that to m/w or OB's is everyday, but can frighten the pants of everyday first time parents
I have worked with some people who talk about birth as a medical experience...that frightens me :)...
I think antenatal education is about giving confidence and allowing couples to feel empowered...I could go on ;)
xx yogababy
Natalie the only class i went to was the first class of 8 and it was about.....induction, pain relief drugs and c-section procedure. Before we even talked about labour, contractions, pelvises, normal birth or non-medical coping methods we talked about prostin, pitocin, pethidine, morphine, gas-and-air and epidural and whether or not baby could stay with us in recovery (no) and if bubs would have to go straight SCBU if the pead wasn't "happy" with the birth (yes)! I didn't go to the rest of them! No wonder women are scared when the FIRST thing they are to learn is how to be drugged up so it won't hurt as much. I was having a homebirth anyway and they had zero geared towards that in my classes, it was assumed everyone would come in and birth there.
In the few days after her birth my midwife expressed surprise at how well she did (was nealry 8oz above birthweight on day 6) because she'd passed meconium during labour and in hospital the paeds immediately take those babies to SCBU and stick needles in them every 2 hours to "monitor" them. They were stunned that simple skin to skin and breastfeeding could keep her perfectly healthy despite a little meconium. I was also told that had i been in hospital i'd have been givin a section (!) because of the mec staining, which was not even evident until she was on my tummy, still pooping and peeing away. Even the MIDWIVES are scared!
Bx
oh SaraJane dont avoid them :) just find what suits you...which may mean a private educator, or only taking what you need from the classes and not being overburdened by all the negative stuff
Hey Bec :)
I would sadly agree that fear is the major factor in that sort of teaching, plus not knowing any other way (to practise obstetric nursing as opposed to midwifery)
xx yogababy
Natalie this is a fantastic thread with so much fantastic information. I've learnt so much and have loved reading it from both a personal and professional appraoch.
So, a HUGE thank you.
so far in my birth classes the midwife has explained everythign but has made it clear that mot of them prefer you to do it yourself and stay very active to help the labour naturally
which has been very uplfting
HI and WOW thanks so much for all the information....
i am have just finished printing it all off for my 2 birth partners to read so they get a better understanding.
Both have listened to my hypnobirthing (a similar one) CD and were a bit sceptical... both agreed that it was my choice and would support me, but i could see they didnt get it totally - that was until the birthing classes.
I was extremly fortunate to have a midwife who was supportive of a natural birth and although spoke about the traditional pain relief (ie peth, epis etc etc) put a negative spin on them and leaned towards the natural stuff first. I was so suprise to hear her speak of the side effects and neg effects of the drugs... it was funny to watch both of my BP's opinion change as they listened and in the car on the way home both said - there is no way we will let you have those drugs now... we get what you have been saying!!! WOOO HOOO
Thank you for all the information, i have found over the last 4 weeks my fear has diminished (due to reading +++ on fear=tension=pain and HB and listening to the CD) and i am actually looking forward to the birth.
THis is a brilliant post and i am off to recommend it to the girls in my belly buddies group!
Thanks again
thanks guys for your wonderful, positive feedback on this post...they gave me warm fuzzies :)
cheers :)
xx yogababy
Just finished reading this thread and Natalie- thank you! What a great read! I'm just in the process of reading through so many great books and BB articles but TBH it's a bit much to read it all. This was such a fabulous summary and has inspired me to read the other stuff now too.
I loved all the stuff you wrote- especially the first few bits on pain and what causes it. I think understanding that will help me coast through it and accept it even better.
U have done a fantastic job Yogababy,this ifo has been excellent & very helpful & u have written it in such a way that it is easy to understand ie: simple & straightforward .I'm going to print this out too & show it to my hubby & my mum as well as she still seems to b in the dark over these matters .I couldn't believe it the other day when she was actually agreeing with all the stuff the doctor was saying but i guess that is all she knows.This info will help me explain it to her in a much more knowledgable way & hopefully also give hubby more of an idea on how he can help me & b a more active part of the birth.
THANKU!!!:hug:
Thanks Natalie, I've even found this thread helpful with my doula studies. Thank you so much. I really want to be the best possible doula I can be, and every bit of extra info helps. Thanks.
thanks artemis and mummy mel xxxxxx :)
mummy mel...I am happy to share as much as you need to help you be the best doula you can be ;)
xx yogababy
Thank God we have Belly Belly or we might not ever know that it could be different!! Thanks for all your great information!:
oh SaraJane dont avoid them :) just find what suits you...which may mean a private educator, or only taking what you need from the classes and not being overburdened by all the negative stuff
hi yoga baby, probably not the right place to post this, but i was wondering, have you had any experience with women going for an xray to see the dimensions of their pelvis prior to TTC? i had a horrific birth and suffered post traumatic stress after my emergency c-section, not keen to go thru any of that again and was told i would have 5% chance next time of vaginal birth due to the shape of my pelvis... anyways was wondering if it is possible to actually know for a fact about my pelvis, as this could change my mind about having an elective csection next time, if i know my pelvis isn't the wrong shape, maybe i would try a vbac, but not sure, would need to really think it over as not keen to end up like i did last time, as i was a mess for months. sorry for long post i realise i probably should have started a thread asking this question.
There is an article here on BB about 'Pelvis too small' etc - gets you questioning the diagnosis without at least a second opinion :)
Hey Emma
yes some women who have had a difficult and traumatic birth experience, have so because of the shape of their pelvis...some OB's do recommend a series of pelvic xrays to determine pelvic shape, symmetry, measurements etc
women have a unique pelvic shape, designed to hold a baby's head and allow the baby to pass through and birth
men have a narrow pelvic inlet...and some women also have this simmilar shape
in ages past women with a narrow pelvic inlet would die in childbirth...today we have a c/s...
hope this helps
xx yogababy