This is great yogababy....gives people an understanding without the complexity....good one!
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This is great yogababy....gives people an understanding without the complexity....good one!
Another thing I heard that increases pain is being asked "are you in pain?"
I am having a homebirth and we had a meeting last week (midwife, trainee doula, DH and a friend) and I told them all I want positive language only, so I hope that helps!
On the point of horror stories, I havent heard many, but the ones I hear I just think well thats your story not mine! Also most of them are what inspire me to birth at home without medical intervention.
I've only got about 2 weeks to go now before Number Two is due and I am wanting to avoid the epi this time...have found this enormously helpful and just wanted to bump it back up for the benefit of anyone who hasn't come across this thread yet.:D
Hi Blue Daisy :)
i've tried to view your the link to you website but it keeps coming up up with an error. - have you changed the name or anything?
gill77 - Nat hasn't been around for a while, not sure why and I can't get on her site either.. Hope its up and running again soon.
This is SUCH a great thread!! So much wonderful info on here!
I've really enjoyed reading this thread.
I was very young when I had my first two girls and quite uninformed. I had less than stellar birth experiences (although they were quite straightforward, really) and I was determined to do things differently six years later when I had my third.
I read every Sheila Kitsinger book I could lay my hands on and her approach, the psychosexual approach, really gelled with me. I really grooved into the whole experience and paid much, much more attention to what my body was actually doing. I learned how to welcome the sensations of contractions and listen to them as sensations, rather than calling them "pain" and feeling them as such.
Of course it gets harder to enjoy contractions the closer you are to delivery, but constantly changing positions and having strong visualisations and vocalisations designed to welcome contractions really helped. As a result, I've had three pain-relief free deliveries since then, even with my last nearly 10lb daughter, and I'm confident I can have another.
Im still here :D
Thanks so much for this thread. I'm due very soon and I feel so much more confident this time around (4th baby). Each has been mostly natural except being induced each time. Not This Time!!!
what a great thread, really interesting they dont tell u that do they.
Hi Natalie! I haven't seen you around for ages, I hope you are well :D
And yes, I agree with everyone else, this thread is fantastic. I give it lots of credit for helping me have an awesome second labour ;)
hi gill77
I do have a new business name
if you pm me I will be happy to share it with you :D
hey trish
long time no speak :D
x
Hi Nat, great to see you back on. Hey how is that book going? Can we buy a copy yet? :)
PS: not sure if you remember me but I used to be called charli'smumma
Nat! We've missed you! Glad to see you're still around.:
I went looking for your site last week and after some persistent googling I found it...you've changed your name you sneaky bugger ;) :p
I was so glad to have had the injection ... as only moments after the injection my placenta expelled ... it truely felt like my birth wasn't over until the placenta was out :rolleyes:
It was the strangest feeling like a huge soft blob coming out (it was an easy part of labour) !!
Apart from that i had no other drugs with my 1st birth at 40 years of age ;)
No, it wouldn't, because the birth of the placenta IS part of the birth - it's the 'third stage' of birth!! It does come out naturally, in most cases, and even if it doesn't take the 20 seconds or so that hospitals allow for this to happen (ok, I'm exaggerating!) it is still a normal birth if it comes out an hour later, all by itself :):
My third stage was managed because my midwife thought I was bleeding too much (in the water it was ambiguous). I'm not going to second guess her, and it's already happened, so next time I'm going to ask my attending midwife (cos I'll be at home for the next!) if she's familiar with what normal blood loss looks like in a waterbirth before the birth, so that we both know what we're working with and when to pull out the synto.
Anyway, I've since watched Orgasmic Birth and realised that I had one of those :) If you haven't seen it, it's not about screaming in raptures of pleasure during birth; it's about undisturbed birth (before you get all excited and think I'm saying every woman should feel like she's actually having an orgasm...though some do have just this ;) )
hey spice
I certainly do remember you :D
ahh the book is still in manuscript form...and for now is staying that way
my yoga book is still out there though
hey tobily
yes a new name...better explains me I think, but it wasnt by choice
thanks for missing me :D Ive been busy with all things birth
there is a great article by Dr Sarah Buckley on the 3rd stage of birth...talking about hormones, love, skin to skin, first breastfeed
I did have managed 3rd stages with both my births
but it was only recently I read that with a natural 3rd stage that some research with u/s actually indicated that the placenta separated within 3 minutes of the baby birthing, but anywhere from 15-20 minutes for the placenta to actually birth
I also found some research that supports that a natural 3rd stage does not increase blood loss in the low risk birth
we know what increases blood loss in the 3rd stage...medical intervention and hands that cant keep off :D
I just read through this thread & I think that every pregnant woman should read it!
I was pg with my first at 17.
First my OB tried to bully me into an induction. I had my check up 2 days before I was due & with no internal or any exam to really determine what was going on, he decided that nothing was happening & that'd I'd need an induction. He booked it for 2 days after I was due.
I'm really lucky that my mum was there to tell me it wasn't right, or I would've just done as I was told.
I rang my gp, who I trust, & asked him about it. He rang my OB, checked that there was no medical reason for the induction & assured me I was ok to keep going up to 2 weeks over due.
Then when labour started at 41+1 it was going ok, bu I had no idea what to expect, so I ws fighting the pain. Fighting the contractions. I ended up with gas & pethidine to relax me enough to let the labour happen.
There was also talk of a c/s. Thankfully my mum & MIL were there & they told the OB to see how I go for a bit longer.
Then I was told to push at 7cm. Baisically get bub out now or they were aking me for a ceaser. My labour was 18.5 hoursfrom waters breaking to irth, so IMO not overly prolonged.
Thankfully after about an hour of pushing my DD was born perfectly healthy.
With my second labour things were completely different.
I had about 20 hours of pre labour/latent phase.
I stayed at home for as long as possible & by the time I go to the hospital I was around 7cm dialated.
This time I was so different. I forced myself to relax from probably the chest down.
I kinda hummed through the contractions. It slowed my breathing down & kept me relaxed.
I pushed when I was ready. Had ARM about 10 minutes before she was born.
Of my 3 labours can honestly say that I look back on that one & feel so much happeir & relaxed.
It was an amazing labour. Still VERY painful, but I told my self I could handle the pain & I did.
My third was over from start to finish in 5 hours. I feel like it was too quick.
We had mecconium in my waters, so they wanted it to be as quick as possible, but for your body to go 0 - 10 in about 4.5 hours is very full on.
I ended up demanding pethidine during transition & getting it. Even though it didn't kick in til afer he was born.
It was good to have it over & done with, but now when I look back it was too quick.
I'm seriously considering becoming a doula when my children are older. I am fascinated with labour & child birth for some reason.
Thank you so much for this series of articles.
My midwife suggested I read the book gentle birth, gentle mothering by Sarah J Buckley when I was pregnant with my first child. I loved her explanations on the role of hormones during birth and the detailed description of what actually happens during the various stages of labour. It gave me so much confidence. I had a very positive attitude to birthing even before I fell pregnant. Despite having been told lots of "horror stories". Probably due to the general attitude of my family to trust in nature and minimise the use of medication (a little unexpected seeing that my father is a surgeon). But knowing the actual workings of my body during labour enforced this general attitude and I found it quite reassuring.
For those who asked about a natural third stage: it is entirely possible. Mine was natural and it probably took 20 minutes from when my daughter was born to when the placenta was expelled. There was no rush. Nobody got anxious waiting for it to happen. I was busy bonding with my daughter until it happened.
I guess, even if you don't do a particular hypnobirthing class, knowing the kind of information as is posted here, has a similar effect. I never did hypnobirthing, but at no stage did I feel the need for pain relief. It didn't even occur to me. Of course it was intense. But I didn't feel it as pain. To me, it was more like the feeling you get when you push past your limits when exercising. You wouldn't think to have pain relief when running a marathon, would you? I really felt like I was giving into my body and just let it do what it needed to do. I was along for the ride.
Reading your posts made me so excited to be experiencing this all again very soon. I can't wait.
If you ever publish that book of yours, i will most likely be buying it too. Even if I won't have any more babies after this one, I would buy it to give it to pregnant friends of mine. I do think every pregnant woman should have this type of information.
Actually, on a side note. My mother really didn't understand why I was so interested in gettinng all this birth info. She did for a brief while when pregnant with her first and she found it really unhelpful. After talking to her in more detail I realised that the type of info she got was all negative (how horribly painful, scary and dangerous birth is). I give her a lot of credit for trusting her instincts and ignoring this info. My point is: The more books and information is out there on what birth can and should be like, the better. Maybe one day it will become mainstream again and not something mainly for us "alternative birth nuts" :-)
All the best, Sasa
xox
This thread has been incredibly inspiring and I'm even more determined than ever to birth my first child naturally. I watched Ricky Lake's documentary 'The Business of Being Born' last night and although I knew a lot already (much thanks to Belly Belly!) I found it incredibly interesting and feel I'm even more prepared to go natural.
I just find it so sad that something so natural is often viewed as 'crazy' and I'm sick of people judging me already and telling me I'm trying to be a 'hero' because I'm opting to TRY to birth naturally. I have nothing against the drugs at all and hey, I may just need them or other forms of intervention but my inital plan is to have faith in my body and just let it do what it was born to do. Why am I trying to be a 'hero' for feeling that way? I have no doubt it will be painful, I don't know that I will be able to handle the pain and I cannot predict what the birth will be like but I CAN make the call now to just TRY and go natural. And you know what, I'm sure I can do it :D
this thread is great - thank you to blue daisy & everyone else who's shared stories and/or info.
i felt quite calm about the thought of birth because both my mum & DP's mum are fairly pragmatic people who talk about their birthing experiences in an honest way that has always made me think positively about labour & birth. people do seem to want to share horror stories but this thread has helped to re-centre my thoughts :)
i've been hanging off from booking the classes through my hospital but almost feel like i should do them because this is our first & we don't really know what to expect - right down to neither of us having been in hospital before other than to visit people! i guess as long as we're armed with information then we can select what we take away from the classes, as others have suggested?
ooh i had forgotten about this thread!! how your brain makes you forget!!
i read it all when i was expecting and thought of it all in a logical way. I read heaps and heaps but actual labour and birth was different.
reading thru the different stages now, gives me a different perspective, it all makes more sense since having gone thru it.
thanks heaps!!
Well, since last reading this thread I have had another beautiful natural birth experience that still makes me get that far away look in my eyes and I wander off in bliss! Natural birth or 'normal' birth really, has the potential to be so empowering and wonderful for you, your baby and the whole family.
For those wondering about 'birthing/parenting classes' and what to do - some hospitals seems to do it better than others, depending on the background of midwives. For example, the hospital I went to 1st time was general public hospital and focused on pain management and where to park! The second time I went to a private hospital where most of the midwives came from a homebirth background and boy was it different and much more empowering. I also did a calmbirth course and a breastfeeding course prior to my second and the information presented was soooooo much more friendly to looking at the whole process.
I guess like all parts of the pregnancy and birthing continuum it is something one just has to research and find what you think will best suit the philosophy on birthing that you have. I know even the first time around I did ignore everything 'awful' and said, no this will not be for me and it wasn't. My first birth was wonderful too, my second was even better!
So, all the best and thankgoodness for wonderful positive threads like this that acknowledge that birth is so much more than a physical process - it is the spiritual journey of birth and connection with your baby from being inside you to being in your arms that is also so important.
Mich xx
Although this is all a bit late for me, (no more babies)it has raised a heap of questions??? My first birth I went through a private midwife for my classes plus she was there during my birth along with my mum and SIL, I wanted a natural drug free birth, including birthing the placenta without interference. I got it, drug free, birthed my placenta,no drugs, but there was no joyful bubs arriving, she was turned as she came out it was like someone screwed my insides around with her, no slithering out once her shoulders arrived, it was long painful and not at all the experince I had hoped for, she was blue, skinny, needed oxygen and suctioning, had an infection or got one??? and was sick for 2 weeks in hospital for the whole time. I find it distressing that even though I was mentally prepared and spent alot of time and money researching and doing everything I could to make it the best experience I could, I felt it as pain and agonizing at that. With an extended 3 hour pushing stage, even though I was definately wanting to push a completely uncontrolable urge...I would like to know why that is? I moved a lot, I showered, I stayed upright, I used visulization and breathing techniques. I did have a back labour and bubs was posterior, I kind of feel like there is something wrong with me that, I did'nt do something right to feel labour as such strong pain??? Yet I know others who are terrified of birth and go on to have quick and trouble free labours and birth.
BF was tough, I feed till she was 8 weeks when she started to lose weight, after taking scales home and weighing before and after feeds and watching her lose weight (on the advice of doc and MHN)I ended up comping, then she refused to BF a all, in the end I got PND, looking back I'm not really surprised, I had so many expectations and it did'nt turn out to be the joyous experince I had hoped for. If someone could explain to me what happened I would be eternally grateful, I feel really robbed.
:redface: not wanting to offend anyone, this thread has brought up so many unanswered questions for me, I have to ask.
Blackduckies:
Well, sometimes things just don't work out the way they should. i know this is not going to be helpful at all. But it's like the person who always ate a healthy diet, did lots of exercise, never smoked or drank and dies of a heart attack at age 42. Sometimes, things are just out of our control. And that is a really difficult concept to grasp.
I am sorry you had such a hard time. But your bubba being posterior might have had a whole lot to do with it. I can guarantee you that there is nothing wrong with you. All we can do is try our best to set ourselves up for the kind of birth we want. After that, it's out of our hands. You ndid what you could.
I have a friend who tried her very best to avoid a posterior bub by using Optimal fetal positioning. She spent so much time on her hands and knees during the last month of pregnancy. she still ended up with a really really long labour because bubs just stayed posterior. Like you, she was so active during her labour, but bubs still could't turn.
By doing what you did, you can increase your chances of having a beautiful birth. But nothing you can do can guarantee you that tyype of birth experience.
I had a wonderful first birth. This time around, there is a chance I have Placenta Praevia and will need a c/s (will find out for sure next week). Although I will be disappointed if that really is the case, there is nothing I could have done to prevent this. I have the right mindset, i am educated, i have a great support team, but if my body just doesn't play along, there is nothing I can do about it.
How were your subsequent births?
All the best, Sasa
Dear Blackduckies,
First of all, thanks for sharing - it sounds like you need to talk about your experience and if I was you I would feel the same - cheated/what happened/could I have done something differently?
I don't have a medical background so I can't comment from that perspective but
From what I have read posterior births are more difficult. I'm sure you know that though :)
I think too for first time labours nothing can quite prepare us for the reality of it and what our expectations can be. It sounds like from your story that your expectations were completely different from your reality. I imagine that is going to take a lot of sorting out emotionally for you and take some time.
This is your story, your experience and I hope you can be at peace with it at some stage - you have taken the unexpected path, one that was more difficult and painful than you expected emotionally and physically.
Healing from lifes experiences can be hard and painful, I have experiences too that I grapple to understand - 'why me'? This isn't what I wanted! Things that people can't really understand unless they walk in your shoes.
So, although I didn't have your experiences of labour, bf and beyond, I am more than able to at least listen and hear you.
Mich xx
Hi blackduckies
please do not feel that you may have offended anyone, every experience is valid and important
from a my midwifery point of view (if I may) a posterior labor and birthing can often be more difficult simply due to the greater degree of rotation through the pelvis that the baby needs to take in order to birth
posterior labor is known to be more painful for many women because the uterus has to work harder to rotate the baby to an anterior position leading to an increased workload for the uterus and an increased oxygen need for the muscle (and also your baby).
you did not do anything wrong at all
there are 2 people involved in birthing...the mother and the baby... and sometimes no matter what the mother does the baby has other ideas on how they enter the world
Nat
Thanks girls, it is very tough and I have to say I am very jealous of those who get that beautiful birth experience.
Yes I do need to talk about this, I did'nt realize howmuch until I started to read and type. The rest of my births are as follows:
I went on to have 3 late first trim MCs then I got my beautiful boy, again a posterieor baby who mangaed to break my waters butnot send me into labour, I was induced after trying lots of natural methods to get him moving, but... in the end my waters had been broken for too long and he was medically inducded, only o get into distress when mild labour started??? ending in CS..
DD started out well, no waters breaking first:dance: labour progressed well, no crazy pain or the like until 8cms where I stayed for hours my OB came and broke my waters which were mecoinium stained, baby was showing signs of distress, he allowed me a bit longer then checked me again, still no progress!!! He was hopefully of reaching her but not close enough, so after 15 hours of labour I had another CS, she was a big bub and had a groove around her head where she had tilted to prevent coming any further she weighed 9pound 10 ounces.
Another 3MC's
Last DD bubs no4, I went VBAC2 very excited to get the chance to try again, knew that the reality was slim, but still wanted to try, I knew I had to progress well and fairly quickly was'nt going to take any chances, she was'nt overly big according to US, my scar loooked good through the layers as well as externally. It all started well, waters broke but labour started, I had to go to hospital about 3 hours after contractions started, I was checked to make sure my waters where broken and I was 3cm dilated, contractions were regular and strong every couple of mins for about 30 seconds. I was so hopefull that this was the one.. baby was happy!!! contractions got stronger more often and longer and in my back again:doh: lots of blood and waters gushing the midwife was convincedt hat a baby was'nt far off?? I started to feel wimpy and asked for gas, which did'nt do much, I had the feeling I needed to push, but also knew it was'nt time, just pressure in my bottom I guess from her postion? After being there for a few hours I asked for another internal, I needed to know that I was going well, my doc had told me 6-8 hours to reduced the risk of uterine rupture?? I measured 3 cms......??????? I lost it, I was scared for my baby, I knew nothing was going to change.. I could'nt believe that I could be in labour so strongly and still be there(3cms), this was about 1am in th e morning, i begged fro the CS thats when the talk started about waiting till the morning and seeing how things were, exactly what my doc told me to avoid, I became really afraid, I know the risk of rupture is slim, they have to tell you everything when weighing up to go VBAC especially second time around, but... I did'nt want to be the slim chance... midwife went and rang doc on duty, I told her to tell him I was booked for a CS, (JIC I went overdue, plus I got my OB whom I trusted) and I wanted to have it. She came back and said, he would come. Another internal was done 8cms was the verdict, OMG was all I could think can I keep trying, yes but not for long theatr was being set up everyone was coming in... great just my luck.. would he just help me I asked, I doubt it when everything is ready to go bubs would have to be coming out???
When he got there is was in thertre waitng, I had already had the epidural done, I asked him if he could help me delivery VB, he did the internal a few quiet words were said then he came and told DH that a mistake ahd been made and I was only 3cms still???? CS was performed, by that stage I was relieved to have my baby girl in my arms fit an d healthy, later the midwife apologized and said it was hard to tell as my cervix had become loose and flopppy??? I don't know...???they do 1000 births a year and a lot of the staff are part time, it seems like a pretty big mistake though. But having said that I think the chances CS after CS and even more so after 2 of them, are greatly increased for lots of reasons, I think you need to be in a big hospital , need experinced staff, need a doula or private midwife and ttrust in your body that you can do it (easier said than done)even then I think it is a tall order. Given there is a time limit etc.
I'm just glad I did'nt have to do this 50-100 years ago without help and CS I think I would have given birth to dead of seriously injured babies and and maybe even died myslef..
Well I guess at the end of it all I got a natural:rolleyes:ouchie drug free VB and i got to labour for 3 subsequent births and came close!!! But I still can't help feeling a bit ripped off until I look at my beautiful babies, then it does'nt really matter how they got here.:p
just bumping up
Not planning on labour any time soon, but I always loved this thread :)
Good call. I'd say this was one of the best and most important threads I've read on this forum.
Me too, great thread! What happened to blue daisy?
I'm pretty sure she's still around in the birthing business, just not on BB
This is so true for my DD:
Love this post. I have read twice and will be using in a birth plan some of these ideas. Thanks
I found her website. Google 'Belly Flower'
I love this thread! Its an awesome read!
Hey, look, now we can 'like' it on facebook :)