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There is actually a group here in Melbourne called Mini MIPPS, Joy Johnson who is a VERY experienced homebirth midwife 'mentors' midwives who want to become independent midwives. So they have help and experience on hand while they start their way... I wonder if this is happening anywhere else? Such a great idea.
I couldn't agree more.:
Does a woman's best interest change because she doesn't share the approach of the majority of women, even if that weren't the case?
Your post made me realise I need to get in touch with the maternity unit I want to use sooner rather than later however... !
I don't think a disagreement with you on this issue is evidence of a lack of critical thinking skills. Is it quite possible that your (very important and valued) experience with very sick babies has skewed your perception on the dangers of birth?:
Evidence does not show that hospital births are safer. I think it's better to go with evidence than anecdote, however powerful our personal stories may be.
I have 5 children all of whom were birthed in a hospital environment due to circumstances out side of my control. But I would like to point out that not one doctor was present at any of my births. If I had the choice i would have had my children at a midwife run service, these women know mor3e about the mechanics of birth than all the OB's I've ever met.. I would love to see more mids out there and available to all of those who want them..
If for some reason we could not have a homebirth, then by all means our next preference would be a midwife-run service.
Well I had a midwifery team care which was as close as I could get to being on a midwife-only unit. Even though I ended up with a c/s I am extremely happy with the care I received, my midwives worked with me through the whole 42 hours and when it came to needing a c/s it definately was the last resort after we tried everything possible to get Jazz out vaginally, and i think it has made all the difference to my emotional recovery of the birth. If I could have the same model of care again I would take it without hesitation!
Yes, there no doubt would be some that have this attitude, but I think the biggest reason for opposing it is self preservation - if they all went out and said "yeah sure, use midwives and have homebirths - we know that's the best standard of care" they may as well take their name off the door of their fancy rooms because they would do themselves out of a job. Over the decades Dr's have become so ingrained into the birth industry that they can't walk away from it now - careers have been built on it. So they have inadvertently put themselves in an ugly catch 22 situation, because if they sided with the midwives, then that undermines the perceived confidence of the women who would use them - like why would you use them if even they are saying that midwife led care is better? See what I mean?:
I really can't agree with such a sweeping generalisation. Yes, there are awful Drs just as there are awful midwives but I've worked for some wonderful Drs, been treated by a fab Dr who reccomended accupuncture and more time in the gym for stress related issues and recently I've befriended an ob who is finally qualifies after years of hard work. We haven't discussed birth much but one of the things that she has mentioned is how frustrated she is with patients who start asking for inductions at their 39 week appointment. She's all for midwife care for straightforward births because she's really into giving her all for the complex ones but her patients feel that since they've paid her for her expertise that she should hover around while they give birth.:
TBH in the brief discussions that we've had I've come to realise how much of the stuff that we lay at obs feet is patient driven. An ob can warn a patient all they want about the side-effects of epidurals but if the patient insists that they get one then the ob would be remiss to refuse it.
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So true Dach. I know it's not the whole problem, but it's certainly part of it. Maybe it's just who I mix with, but I have more friends who would rather labour with an epidural than not (for instance).
Warning a woman in labour is useless though! :cryinglaugh:
She needs encouragement and support, which she often doesn't have, and will look for the weakest link to get her that epidural! They also don't elaborate about how the epi can lower your blood pressure and make the baby go into distress etc which I have seen happen. Its all the 'you might get a headache, very low risk of paralysis - they focus on the big things which are very rare to make you feel better about it.
I wish people would stop bashing doctors. There aren't any obstetricians here to defend themselves, but there are plenty of midwives and doulas getting their jibes in, it doesn't seem a fair or balanced argument.
Please remember this entire thread is based on the opinions of 1 single obstetrician and at that it was just a short quote, God knows what context it was said in.
Have you ever read a newspaper article about anyone you know? They are always, ALWAYS completely and utterly wrong about every detail, and yet we turn the page and instantly take the next thing we read as gospel.
Why are people so anti doctors, it's very strange. Do you really think someone would become an obstetrician, of all trades, if they were an evil person? These doctors help women every day deliver babies safely. Many women truly appreciate their efforts.
In defense of obstetricians who aren't here to defend themselves: They don't just sweep in and cut cords. They are busy seeing multiple patients at the same time as well as conducting private consultations in their suites. Where they find the time to actually attend a birth at all is beyond me. You should know that most specialists work 12 hour days and barely pause for lunch, only having enough time to shove down a sandwich in their rooms between consults. The reality is, they would gladly spend more personal time with individual patients if only they had that luxury. That's why those doctors in smaller country towns get a more positive review than the doctors in large cities.
Kuraizia, I don't think you are catching the drift. Most of the women who've commented with supposed 'anti obstetrician' flavour to their posts have either experienced first hand the damage they can do, or have borne witness to women getting the rough end of the stick during their pregnancies and births. I myself have read on here time and time again of women who have had terribly traumatic births, due in part or entirely to their care giver, or women who have their confidence in their birthing ability undermined by Obs telling them they can't birth big babies, they can't birth overdue babies, they can't birth breech babies, they can't birth period. Now you tell me that's fair? That we are being unfair to obs? I think not. This is your first pregnancy, and by the sound of it you're seeing an ob? And I am not at all saying there is anything wrong with that at all if you are, because it is a valid mode of care for women to choose, but Obstetricians are trained to deal in birth WHEN IT GOES WRONG - they have no place in a normal pregnancy and birth. And I beg to differ on them 'not just sweeping in and cutting cords' - the majority of the time that's all they do do. And as for Dr's in rural areas - they are usually MORE overworked and busy than a Dr in a metro area because there aren't enough of them to meet the demand from women.
Obstetricians never were designed to care for women who have normal births. They are surgeons, they are specialists and they should be doing that all day every day - not caring for normal birth. That is and always was the job of the midwives, but going way back, there was a smear campaign against midwives when Obs popped up and they needed a job. Watch the Business of Being Born for an insight. As I think Trillian said, they forget midwives have been in the business of birth for much longer. They came in, and took over. We do need them and they do save lives - but not in the realm of normal birth - that is midwives work. I am sure you wouldn't like your boss taking over your job and telling you how it should be done.
Again as I have said, there is no obstetric crisis or shortage in Australia. There is an obstetric monopoly making them this busy, tired and prone to prefer inductions and c/s! Not saying they are doing a bad job but they are doing the WRONG job.
Hmmm. Pre-DS, Yes - and I was all ready to go to one but DH was REALLY pushing the hospital all through the pregnancy. Now... no.
I'd go there over a hospital, but I'm homebirthing next time, probably freebirthing. I had the world's worst midwife in the hospital (thankfully not for the birth) and I don't want to be around someone like that for a few days next time. I want to be in my own environment and not told what to do and when to do it all the time.
Both my monkeys were born in a birthing unit here run by midwifes no doctors in sight! The level of care was fantastic and I'm currently seeing them with bubs #3.
I highly recommend them to all, I have found the quality of care to be excellent!
Snoopea:)
Again i guess i agree with everyone here! LOL!
I wouldn't be opposed to an OB next time. I like the guy i had and the midwives he worked with...
and what would the problem be if the OB just 'swept in and cut the chord'? wouldnt that mean that they didnt interfere in the birth, and were available in case something did go wrong? In fact, i wouldnt care if i paid for the OB and they didnt turn up at all! But i would want to know the person that potentially will have me and my baby's life in their hands if the need arose.
why cant we have the best of both worlds? isn't that the REAL choice?
For me i chose my OB because i knew that he was compassionate and very able if the need arose to perform an emergency c/s with as much compassion and understanding as possible (i wanted the guy cutting me up to know the person i was, not just the next belly in line). I ALSO knew that he worked closely with Anne and Michelle (m/w's) who would provide the primary care and this last point was my main reason for going with him.
Also, i have only had one experience (thankfully positive!), and i loved the fact that he (my OB) came by the hospital every day to say hello and have a cuddle of Leila. Not all of them are just there to be the surgical specialists. some of them just have a passion for babies and decided to specialise in a field that for various reasons appealed to them.
Clare - then they should be midwives ;)
too true Kel - if those with a passion for helping a woman birth stepped away from the obstetric model of care, and more towards the midwifery model, the birthing mother would be better served. if the emphasis of only paying a respectable income to those who have studied for years was taken away, and given more to those with experience, people with a genuine passion would be more prepared to move into that field. academic learning and a big pay packet don't make you qualified to help in birthing:
how many doctors, of MANY specialties (GP's included), are all about the academics, and are only doctors because they got good grades in school, not because they have a genuine passion for helping PEOPLE. i think OB's have their place in some births, no doubt about it. and for some people, the obstetric model of care is what they need - but the argument here is that we SHOULD have a choice, and for so many people, that just isn't an option - there are not enough birthing centres by far which leaves you with the option of obstetric led care in a hospital environment (and even if it's mostly midwife care, ultimately, they don't have any power - they answer to an OB), or homebirth, which for many, is just not an option