Article: Risks Fail to Deter Caesarean Births

tangent yes, but anyway...

Rainbows_ ....I had a first natural birth a few months ago and let me tell you, I don't have a 'baggy vagina' - I had sex one week to the day after the birth and it was as fabulous as ever (probably even more so due to the anticipation!). There is absolutely no depression or even a hint of a rememberance of trauma simply because there was no trauma. I was able to enjoy Caty immediately after she was born as I was in crazy heightened state of awareness which lasted for ages...the placenta came out without any effort (hardly even noticed it) and there were no stitches to stop me enjoying my lovely baby.
I'm not anti-c but it annoys me when natural birth is made to be an awful ordeal that only freaks go through when quite simply, it is not!

I am only quoting what i have been told about labour you must be the first person i have heard that speaks about labour in such a great way! However i was induced and after hours of pain (worse pain because of induction) i know that contractions wore me out very badly, (i was hungry, weak and fed up) my vigina was also very sore and that was only from having internal examiniations by a trainiee doctor as he was the only guy avaliable at the time.

However i didnt mean to offend you with the baggy vigina comment this is what i have heard from women who confess that theirs is in an awful state! Even more so 2nd 3rd time round etc. I even know a women who had to have cosmetic surgery to correct this.

I am glad i have heard positive comments about labour from you as i can honestly say you are the first, i hope to hear many more.

However i dont feel women should be forced into viginal births if they dont want them just as someone should not be forced into a c-section.

Maybe this is why the rate of c-sections in the Uk is nearly 25% 1 in four births simply because of all the horror stories you hear on the nhs. If people were more informed about labour and heard positive things im sure the rate would drop. I have only heard bad things except from you about how horrible labour is.

I was happy to go through with a viginal birth when i was induced but after a horrible experience and a great experience with c-sections i know it form both worlds and i will choose a c-section because of this.

I will not purswade people to do this as i feel everyone should make their own choose but i will tell people of my experience to inform them that c-section for me was very pleasent, enjoyable, stress free and allowed me to have sex asap ;)

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I actually haven't met anyone who wants a natural birth to sit under a tree, with no intervention and pixies singing Koombayah

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Yes you have Kelly - ME! I met you at the Baby show in Melbourne - LOL!!!

Rainbows I had a fanstastic vaginal birth, so great that next time I won't have an OB and go to a private hospital but instead choose a midwife and birth centre (Kelly, I think the tree in a field will have to wait to baby number 3, though!!:lol: )

I agree with you that women only hear negative things about labour (three work colleagues sat in front of me an chanted the mantra "epidural, eipidural, epidural"). But there are as many women who have great natural/vaginal births who have traumatic ones, and the same applies for c-section births. I think whatever path a woman choses or has chosen for her (whether by medical neccesity or doctor's convenience) education is the key. If you are informed you at least retain some modicum of control over what can be the best and worst experience of a woman's life.

B456 - I fully understand and have on a number of occassions supported women through an elective c/section. My concerns are not with women who know the risks to themeselves and their babies in c/section. MY concerns are with women who chose c/section as a safer quicker option without knowing the risks or in fact believing they exist. They are also with the doctors who perform c/section as a birth choice for women who believe it is safer and quicker.

I fully (and on a personal level ) understand emotional reasons for thinking of c/section as an option. I know for myself when I am pregnant with my next child I will need to work hard to trust my body to push my baby out. The last baby I birthed through my vagina was not alive - it's going to be something I am going to have to really work on.

However, because I have seen what I have with c/section and because I know the risks I won't choose it as an option unless it is medically necessary. Mostly though because I believe that birth is a process. I believe that the time it takes to grow our children inside of us, the emotions that bubble up, the fears, the joys, the sadnesses and the memories that pregnancy and birth bring are very very important for our emotional and spiritual growth. The emotions that have to be grappled with to dilate that extra centimetre and the fear that has to be released can be cathartic. I know for me during my first birth it was very much like that. I too have suffered abuse as a young person and I am certain this had much to do with my difficult first labour. Birth is very releasing I believe.

That isn't to say that the process of surgery and the informed and empowered decision around that cannot be that also. I believe so wholly in the process of birthing. I believe in the intuitiion of birth. I lament at that beauty being taken from the process and it being about incisions and drugs and monitors when it's not necessary. I am a medical person so I do know and have seen as I mentioned before c/section save the life of mothers and babies or indeed just make it possible to give birth at all.
Please know though that I do fully understand that emotional health as a reason for c/section. Again, my push is that a fully informed decision is made - you clearly made that. I am so happy that you made the point of emotional reasons for c/section. :hug:

Rainbow: Your needs and experiences have been made very clearly. I am unsure however that they have been made on an informed level. I am not sure if you are being antagonistic but to quote B456 I owuldn't be me if I didn't comment...
Baggy vagina??????? PLease! I have pushed five babies out of my very capable vagina and I have an incredibly satisfying sex life as does my husband of nearly 13 years.!
There is a limit Rainbow to how many c/sections can be safely performed and if c/section were everyones birth of choice and you had an obs who was happy to perform major surgery so your vagina isn't baggy then again that's your decision. Your baby and your body.
I agree that women shouldn't be "forced" into vaginal birth but Rainbow that's actually how babies are designed to come out! I disagree emphatically with you. C/section should not be made available to people just because they want it. C/section is major surgery with risks that actually do come about sometimes. It is erroneous to believe that c/section is a safer birth option because the facts say otherwise. It is quicker (sometimes) yes but not safer.

As for women who have enjoyed birthing. Well I am another one! I LOVE giving birth. I LOVE labouring. I LOVE IT!!! I enjoy it and I would say without hesitiation the births of my children were the most empowering and enjoyable experiences of my life. Even the birth of my sleeping baby was empowering in a way that is hard to explain...

Koombyah no but chanting yes! I have a SIL who is a music therapist and I have used chants in my labour - the sounds we make with our mouths and the shape of our lips has a lot of impact on labour.

You sound like you had a traumatic birth experience. I would argue that your experience would have been far more positive had you had continuity of care throughout your pregnancy and laboaur by a midwife. You would have had support - you certainly wouldn't have had so many vaginal examinations which I may add should certainly not leave your vagina sore.

Stick around Rainbow and I am sure you will be hearing many more positive birth experiences!!! However they don't just "happen". You have to educate yourself, surround yourself with support, choose a place to birth that feels safe for you with care providers you develop a relationship with and trust.

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I will not purswade people to do this as i feel everyone should make their own choose but i will tell people of my experience to inform them that c-section for me was very pleasent, enjoyable, stress free and allowed me to have sex asap ;)

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Sorry, after having has a stressful emergency c-section, I find the whole thing that being able to have sex "asap" quite insignificant to the whole process. It was awful and I was in pain for ages. The whole idea of having sex was beyond me. If I manage to have another regardless of the form of birth, being able to have sex "asap" will not be important to me and certainly I would not choose to have a c-section just because of that reason.

I just want to pop in and put my hand up to being one that enjoyed labour! :hello:

Flowerchild - your posts are just great in this thread.. there's nothing really to add to them! LOL.

I am actually quite scared of c-sections, as I see them as needing a lot of recovery. Tallon was breech for a little while, and c-section was to be discussed in my next OB visit if he hadn't turned.. and I was devestated! Thankfully he turned! I see it that my body is designed to cope with the rigours of labour, but not really designed to recover from surgery. (ok.. that sounds a bit wrong.. of course it recovers.. but it's not a natural thing iykwim?)

Yes vaginal birth requires time and work.. and yes it hurts! But I LOVED it and can't wait to do it again :) (remind me of this when reality hits when I'm pg again! LOL)

I've had no ill-effects whatsoever from a vaginal birth - no bagginess, no probs with pelvic floor - nothing. And I definitely got to enjoy my baby from the moment he was born, with no interruptions. He was eventually weighed etc, and I had to get up and shower - but other than that, bub was with me the whole time, and it was lovely :)

Hi,

I just wanted to add my thoughts. I have had an emergensy c-section, forceps delivery and a normal vaginal delivery (he was 9lbs 7 ozs). My last labour and delivery were scary because of his size and his shoulders were stuck for a while, however, by far my worst experience was the emergency c/s. I am terrified of having to need another one, the recovery time, the pain I was in after and the way it affected my ability to look after my son straight after he was born were all horrible experiences.

I had an ARM with my third son as he was post dates and my ob was getting worried and I was really worried I may end up having a c/s because of the increased risk of intervention with an induced or augmented labour. A c/s is not something I would ever do by choice, Id even rather the episiotomy and forceps I had with my second son.

I just wanted to add that my ob is not pro intervention. I had my first son as a public patient and the c/s was definitely unavoidable, with my second my ob was away and he was born at 35 weeks and one of her partners delivered him with forceps due to fetal distress (the midwife who called him in later apologised saying I could have pushed him out on my own but she didnt want to take any chances) and my third was deliverd by my ob, normally.

Thank you for the great replies i honestly feel so confused right now, all my life i was told labour was a bad thing, yes it is how babies are suppossed to come out but i have heard so many horror stories i never thought about it being an emotional and spiritual experience how amazing that sounds!!

I was reading a few natural birth stories and expected to hear horror but i heard excitment, bonding and joy. If i joined this site for one reason it was to bring me back to reality!!

I know i may have sounded quite mean but i was digging for the truth!! I wanted to hear what you ladies said from experience.

Maybe when i have a next baby i may opt for a natural the only prob is by the time i get to 8 months i will see a big bump and start panicking and worrying and then just get a c-section as i know its avaliable to me now.

Induction was horrible for me i now realise because it was the intervention i hated!!!! I had gel, a drip, my waters popped, internal examination every 30mins, no pain relief in the first 10hrs!!!! I had to lie still while a fetal monitor was attached i couldnt move around, i cried i was so scared so when i was offered the c-section i just took it and thought it was great.

I think if i go overdue again i have no choice but a c-section because i find they are the best intervention if really needed since induction really stressed me out.

Just wanted to say thanks

Fainbows, what if in the weeks approaching your due date you started to do some natural therapies and the like to encourage bub to come on it's own. Of course there is no guarentee that it will work but a far better option in my opinion. Babies don't always come on their due date, simply because they just aren't ready. Fine for me to say now that I'm not pregnant I know.

Maybe even have a look into hypo birthing, it might help you get your mind into the right place.

Just a few options, but of course it's all totally up to you in the end :)

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I had gel, a drip, my waters popped, internal examination every 30mins, no pain relief in the first 10hrs!!!! I had to lie still while a fetal monitor was attached i couldnt move around, i cried i was so scared so when i was offered the c-section i just took it and thought it was great.

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Rainbows - your birth experience sounds rather similar to mine. I was induced with gel early (had 3 doses over 2 days) and left for 5 days in agony. The birthing suites at the hospital had filled up and they were reluctant to speed up the process (that they'd already started!! All because I had high BP... no other reason). My waters were broken 5 days after the first dose of gel and I was given an epidural after experiencing only 4 hours of "proper" labour (tho it felt exactly the same as what I'd been feeling for days :( ). I was put on the drip, constantly monitored etc. Gabby's heart rate was dropping every time the drip was turned up so it was concluded that I needed a caesar. It was scary but I didn't mind... I was tired and over it. I do remember feeling "ripped off" when I stopped feeling the contractions tho. The whole caesar experience was bizarre but not traumatic. It's the value of hindsight that has made me see that it all could have been avoided. I doubt the cord would have been wrapped so tightly around Gabby's neck if I hadn't been in agony for 5 days... iykwim?
You are right... intervention is the problem. It automatically increases your chances of ending up with a caesar. Inductions HURT because they are causeing unnatural labour. Any wonder you hated labour so much!

Thanks for the support i now only realise why i had such a terrible time i thought all labours were like that! Silly me!!

I was thinking if i went for a home birth how much intervention will happen? I dont want internal examinations but are they a legal requirement? Im confused as to how much intervention is legal??

How would i know if i am fully dilated without intervention?

Would i be aware of what is going on in the second stage of labour when i push the baby out? Or will i be in too much pain to bond?? Please help

Rainbows, I had a homebirth with my last baby. You are not required at all to have internals. That is up to you and your midwife. Half the point of having a home birth is for less intervention, so basically no rupture of membranes, minimal to no internals, intermitant fetal monitoring with a doppler.

Information is power hun, fill yourself with so much information and hopefully you will always know what's going on.

As for knowing when your fully dilated, your body will tell you that. This is when your baby will start to move down the birth canal, you can feel this happening, Not really painful, just pressure moreso in your lower back.

Find yourself a midwife or doula that you are completely comfortable with, share your fears, have lots of talks and tell her exactly what you want out of your birthing experience. Of course things don't always go to plan but that's the same way with life in general.

Goodluck sweety with whatever you decide to do. Already you are doing great, asking lots of questions is the first step. :)

Rainbows,
I was induced at 10 days overdue and had my water broken. I then went on to have a long labour finishing with an emergency c/s. However I only had 1 internal the entire time and that was when the ob decided that the best thing was a c/s as I was not progressing at all. Only 2cm dilated after 16 hours and bub was coming through face first which he said was a problem. Don't know if that's true but I just wanted to let you know with all that happened to me I only had one internal. The midwives told me I would know when it was getting near time to push and to let them know. I think the big thing is educating yourself and knowing as much as you can before the birth. I went in not knowing anything really so i just accepted everything that was said to me.

Yes, i feel so upset i cant believe i let those people just treat me like a piece of meat!! i honestly thought that i could not refuse and internal or refuse to have my waters broken. If i had of known this i would never let them near me as some of them were so rough and nasty with me i literally had to take gas and air because i got so hurt with these horrid internals!!

I really want to be able to go through birth without anything!! No internals forced on me, no epidural, no being tied to a bed!!

Gosh i was so silly if only i had know i could of had a peacful home brth and let my body do its thing rather than have all that forced upon me for 20hrs!!

Women need to be informed about these things, i though i had no legal right when my baby was coming out!! Now i know and wont be so stupid next time

Yes, i feel so upset i cant believe i let those people just treat me like a piece of meat!! i honestly thought that i could not refuse and internal or refuse to have my waters broken. If i had of known this i would never let them near me as some of them were so rough and nasty with me i literally had to take gas and air because i got so hurt with these horrid internals!!

I really want to be able to go through birth without anything!! No internals forced on me, no epidural, no being tied to a bed!!

Gosh i was so silly if only i had known i could of had a peacful home brth and let my body do its thing rather than have all that forced upon me for 20hrs!!

Women need to be informed about these things, i though i had no legal right when my baby was coming out!! Now i know and wont be so stupid next time

Oh hun, it's your body and your baby. You have every right to refuse anything that you do not want done. To do anything against your will is grounds for legal action.

It's great to have answers to give back to Dr's when they try to throw scare tactics at you. I love to see the look on their face's when they realise that I am not a mother who is going to sit there and shut up. I am informed and I will yell from the roof tops if I need to :)

Hi Rainbows,

I am really sorry you had such a bad experience. All labours are different, some easier than others. I think a lot depends on your midwife, if you have a good midwife everything seems to be a lot calmer and easier. Labour can be traumatic and it sounds like this is what happened to you. I would recommend finding a good midwife or ob you trust and explaining exactly how you feel to them and taking it from there next time.

Just adding a new article to this thread as its in our FAQ stickies about caesarean risks.

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Planned caesareans increase health risks
Clara Pirani, Medical reporter
February 15, 2007

WOMEN who undergo a planned caesarean section suffer more than three times the number of cardiac arrests, blood clots and infections than those who give birth vaginally.
The study, based on almost 2.4million deliveries, comes as more women are having a caesarean without a medical reason. More than 30 per cent of babies in Australia are born by caesarean, up from 20per cent in 1995.

The study, in the Canadian Medical Association Journal, found women who had a caesarean were five times more likely to have a post-partum cardiac arrest or a wound infection, and twice as likely to have anesthetic complications, blood clots or haemorrhage requiring hysterectomy.

Christine Tippett, president of the Royal Australian College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, said: "It's important that the message gets out to women that they will have more problems if they have a caesarean."

Tatiana Sudarikova, 33, said it was healthier to have a baby vaginally. The Sydney woman had a boy, Alexander, yesterday, after a labour of less than two hours. "You should only have a caesarean if you have health issues during the pregnancy."

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Hefty numbers in this study. This is a good one Kelly. Thankyou... :hug:

I think its pretty idyllic to have a labour less than 2 hrs! heh.

omg brooke - you're at 37 wks already! When's your bub coming? 1 more week? or longer?

Getting back to the article, I have just a few questions and thoughts on this topic; I hope someone can elaborate more for me. I truly appreciate the data given, and would really appreciate more info :)

I personally feel we need to be educated before childbirth of the risks involved, regardless of how we give birth. Perhaps to be incorporated into the ante natal classes I for one would like to know of ALL of the risks to both mother and baby associated with Both Natural Birth as well as C Section, not just the stats, but the general risks also. I have read more about risks on c sect, but never heard of anyone having major problems associated with it, though I know of so many problematic outcomes with natural birth, of either mother or baby, yet no one tells us the real risks?

I am wondering what the underlying factors were that caused cardiac arrest during c section? Is it blood loss, an underlying medical condition, anesthetic? Was cardiac arrest more prevalent in those undergoing Emergency C Section?
Is the risk of cardiac arrest with c section the same as having any other surgery? I also as mentioned would love to hear of all risks associated with Natural Childbirth!

Either way, there’s no backing out for me now so hit me with it LMAO!!!!:p

Thanks Guys! :)

The "risks" of vaginal birth are probably more due to the mismanagement of the birth, than the fact that it was vaginal. We're always reading here about the cascade of intervention.. and that is probably what results in us hearing more 'horrible' birth stories when going vaginal.

But it only makes sense that major abdominal surgery would have greater risk than letting the body do it's thing (without interference). I too was wondering if the c/s risks were similar to other surgeries.

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The "risks" of vaginal birth are probably more due to the mismanagement of the birth, than the fact that it was vaginal. We're always reading here about the cascade of intervention.. and that is probably what results in us hearing more 'horrible' birth stories when going vaginal.

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What about the risks of Nat Birth, which dont just result from intervention?

Wow Brooke at him scheduling the c/s so far away! That's awesome. So if you go into labour, will it be classed as emergency c/s? How long would you let the "labour" go for? (let's make this all about brooke shall we? hehehe)

As for the risks of natural birth - I'm not really someone that can answer that! I'm sure Kelly can dig up some info - she's good at that ;) But I've found that many of the horror stories I've read/heard are due to intervention, or bad positioning of mum (like lying on the bed) or something or other. I think it's great to have BellyBelly to read all the GOOD stories. hehe.

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As for the risks of natural birth - I'm not really someone that can answer that! I'm sure Kelly can dig up some info - she's good at that ;) I think it's great to have BellyBelly to read all the GOOD stories. hehe.

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I Hope so! I'm sure she has seen all sorts of things let alone researched them...Anyways I know I love hearing about the GOOD stories too....But being the typical virgo that I am, I like to anaylise EVERYTHING good or bad, he he he. I stew over everything before I make any final decision, when it comes to most things ;)

Oh, and the thought of problems due to "mismanagement" as you quoted Liz....of the birth....let alone intervention....Worries the hell outa me!!!

Here is an interesting read of the risks of normal vaginal birth at Ina May Gaskin's 'The Farm'. Women go there for natural birth and they have records of all the interventions / complications / transfers. I think you will be shocked :) When birth is left alone, it goes very well most of the time. Compare these stats to your hospital ;)

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...ad.php?t=16159

Wow.................

Thought Id post about to have my 2nd C/s after 2 totally natural births and 1 elective c/s.....

Okay both have there plus sides really, both have there risks involved as does any birth, whether or not you are PRO/CON for either a little bit of knowledge goes a long long way.

Heres a quick run down on my particular experience, both natural births were at busy public hospitals after pretty decent length labors (days not hours) and both times I was up and walking back to the maternity ward after the birth.

Third baby, Little private hospital, TOP IVF obstertrician, small little issue of Ventriculomegally (abnormal (1mm out of normal) fluid on the brain Ventricle) I was pretty much told at 20 weeks it would be a c/s to avoid putting any pressure on the brain during delivery........so C/s it was, Forth baby this August I was only pretty much accepted into my OBGYN and hospital with a elective C/S at 38 weeks.....


Mmmmm Makes you think,

Oh and a sister who had her baby late last year was only given about 12 hours in labour before she was c/s due to failure to progress.....same hospital same OBGYN.

NOW dont get me wrong I LOVE my obgyn hes a living legend, But I do pause sometimes and think about the Public Vs Private debate......


HTH, Not aggrovate

Lindie

I wonder if the 'knowing the risk going in' also affects the birth stories we hear? Another article Kelly posted about c/s says that people can feel more in control having a c/s whereas with vaginal, it can be viewed as a wait and see what happens game (to paraphrase!). So if the mums don't feel in control.. even if the birth is pretty much problem free.. I wonder if that can often lead to the birth story sounding more horrible?

OK - I hope that made sense. hehe.

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Ally - Why am I not shocked to learn you're a Virgo? I am too LOL.

coz btw - even tho I opt for elec c/s's...it doesnt mean I dont worry about what can happen - I freak out about the risks and Im not cavalier about my stomach being opened up yet again...its just this is the wayfor me - this alternative is the one thats best for me even tho it comes with all of this. I couldnt (well of course one can do anything if they have to - so Ill correct mysel) - I wouldnt do it any other way.

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Brooke ;Another virgo!! Explains why we think alike ;) Well, I do relate very well to your way of thinking, I totally feel the same as you do here! Perhaps we have had similar life paths thus far, as to warrant feeling this way? Who knows!

Yup - but I believe this site is focused on helping women to know how to maintain control during a vaginal/natural birth, and to shift the thinking so as to empower us to work through and even ENJOY birth! hehe. Everyone knows that bub could be in a bad position, or something or other during the labour, but with knowledge of how to deal with these 'unexpected' things during the birth, you can maintain a lot of the control. Obviously emergencies are another kettle of fish, but where vaginal births have bad or perhaps are perceived as bad, are when control is handed over to the caregivers leaving mum with little knowledge of what will come next.

It is so wonderful to see such a group of well educated women sharing their feelings like this.
I am glad you posted Brooke and I for one don't see you as passionate about c/s. I am happy you feel you can make an informed decision. I also very much understand that there are psychological reasons that are valid and real for women to consider c/s. The psychology of birth is one of THE most important aspects of birth. As I have said before our head is the major birthing organ. If that is not in the right place the birth will not be smooth. I know this from my own personal experience and also from supporting other women through VBAC and difficult birth.

If a woman finds that for whatever reason her head can't get there and she weighs up the risks of major surgery and what she needs for her then as I see it that is an informed decision.

Induction has risks as well. Once a drug is administered your risks immediately increase. Then the cascade of intervention often begins and again this does increase risks to both mother and baby.

This site is about empowering women and to support women to enable them to make empowering and safe decisions.
You all know my take. I am passionate about natural birth. I am a medical person also so I am not blind to the risks of surgery/induction. However I am even more passionate about educated and informed choice.

The risks of c/section are much that of the risk of any major abdominal surgery. The risks of natural birth are statistically much less than that of surgery.

For Brooke I wish you a safe and beautiful birth and I am happy that you are comfortable with your choices and decisions. Ultimately this is what is important. If you feel empowered and safe you will likely have a satisfying memory. These things are so important for that early parenting. I think it's great that you have been happy to share so eloquently and gently your perspective. :hug:

No problem Brooke. Enjoy these last few weeks as a pregnant Mama :hug:

lol flowerchild i think i need u at my birth!!!!! i do not want a c/s but am scared if they say its needed i will fold without asking lol i am weak!!!

It is also true to say that in this country there is a huge yawning gulf between the ideal of a natural well-supported birth and the reality of many women's birthing experiences!

Having chosen a C/S this time round due to PTSD from last horrible VB - I'd like to point out that not all midwives are lovely and caring and knowledgeable and supportive and there are some of us who have been horribly let down by a medical system that should know to do better.

At least this time when I'm on the table being sliced open there will be a anaesthetist standing right there whose sole job it is to ensure I come out alive. I'm motivated partly by an awareness that in chosing a CS, the medical system is forced to pay me and my wellbeing a higher level of attention than they did last time when it was all down to a couple of staff chatting in the corner paying me not the slightest bit of concern.

I'm sure also if I'd had the option of birthing at Gaskin's Farm none of that trauma would have ensued...however access to birthing centres run by fabulous midwives is limited in this country.

I'm reasonably sure I will be required to argue my case for a CS a number of times as I am a public patient (because i don't believe health care should be a profit driven enterprise). I wonder whether any study has been done on how many of the increased number of CSs arise in women who had been let down once or more by the 'healthy natural way' which was mismanaged and who chose to not subject themselves to that shoddy level of treatment again.

PS I agree with everything everyone has said about birthing choices needing to be informed and empowered. I for one still believe in natural birth, however I can no longer trust that all my preparation and decisions and intent won't be kicked aside by something as arbitrary as the quality of staff who are rostered on to support (or not) my birthing process.

Noni,
To help facilitate the birthing experience that you want you need to really really educate yourself. Choose a health care provider whose practices and philosophies gel with your own. Engage the support of a doula or midwife who you develop a trusting relationship with. One who can advocate for you, who can support and nurture you through the pregnancy, birthing and early parenting journey. These are some ways to get the type of birth that you want (and deserve!). I wish you that and more. We only do this birthing gig a select number of times, it is so much nicer if we have a beautiful memory to look back on.

Marydean, sadly you are a speck in the ocean of the women who have been let down, mismanaged and left to pick up the pieces after birth in our country. I am so sorry that you have had this experience. I can hear very clearly how much this experience has altered you and led you to the choices that you have made for your next birth. I can appreciate why you are feeling as you are.

It is absolutely correct to say that not all midwives are the devoted, loving and expert beings that we would like them to be. For some it is a job and when the shift is over they are off. I know that too. This is the same for any job, however in any of the caring professions it is just that more in your face.

I find it horrendous that you feel there is no other option for you but a c/section to feel safe in your next birth. Quite clearly the system has let you down very badly for you to feel this way. Post birth trauma is very real. No woman should be left in this position and I am so very sorry that you have been.

Our system is money driven. I know that you feel that health care should be profit driven but sadly it very much is. I have worked in both the private and public systems and the public system is no less driven by the dollar than the private. The difference is that because people pay in the private system their voices are sometimes heard just a little bit louder. Also because generally the populus insured by private health is generally more educated and has more money and this makes people listen. Unfortunately folk with an education and higher financial status are more likely to be heard. It is another sad fact of our society.

Your experiences and how you feel you need to remedy them are precisely where much of my passion has been fuelled.

It is an absolute FACT that women who have continuity of care through pregnancy and labour with a midwife known to them have better outcomes than ANY OTHER form of antenatal/postnatal care. This form of care should be made available to all women. ALL WOMEN!!!! Now, should that woman after the months of support and care from her midwife (or team of no more than 4 midwives) still believe that she cannot entertain labour then she will continue to have that care with her midwife/s in ot and then later post natally. This will continue to support the birthing woman.

Much can be done to heal birth trauma. It is hard work but I have seen some wonderful outcomes. Hypnobirthing is often hugely helpful as just one option. So is the one on one you will receive from a midwifery model of care. Woman centred care is what we need. Midwives who are passionate about this type of care are generally very passionate about women and women's birthing rites and rights. Of course there is never a blanket rule but generally speaking.

You are right that the forms of care I talk of are just not available to all women. In fact they are only available to a small group of the population. This is WRONG.

There are some things women can do who do not have this type of care available. You can engage your own midwife at a cost. In some states this midwife will not be able to facilitate your birth but she will be there and be your advocate. An experienced Doula can also do this - having a Doula or a woman support who is experienced and knowledgeable about the birthing process is another way to statistically have a more satisfying outcome.

We need to lobby our governments and we need to lobby our hospitals. We need to say "I need something different"!
The system is slowly changing because it IS dollar driven. Midwifery models of care are more cost effective, so the government is saying "mmm maybe it's not such a bad idea". However, we still have to change the thinking of some of the "old boys" ob obstetrics and government who truly believe that the medical approach is the only way. It is these people who often make up the policies and 'guidelines' for women to birth by.

Now, sometimes the medical approach is the best way. But it shouldn't be that way because a woman was not safely supported and honoured in her birthing journey.

Ironically tomorrow I am at a meeting with Qld Health about this very issue. About making a midwifery model of care available to women in rural areas.

Birth is a journey that a woman should feel supported, safe and nurtured on. I hope that your choices this time will make you feel that way. Thanks for sharing some of your story. :hug:

OooOOOoh good luck Deb, please do let us know how you go!!! I have head there have been a few good things going on in QLD of late.

I will Kelly. It is sounding really great. I am looking forward to it. I am taking a few pregnant bellies with me to be the voice of the birthing Mama!

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