Yeah Ikwym..... we had very helpful midwives in hospital HOWEVER got very conflicting BF advice from day 1..... DD had her first feed about an hour after birth and a MW was there watching and helping a little bit while DD got on.... (I wanted to do the breast crawl but i had to be stitched up and that took aaaages and it was distracting me so that didnt happen ) anyway, she then slept for about 3hrs from memory and then woke up hungry. I called a MW in for every feed but I had to because I had no idea what I was doing and also DD would not get on and attach (flat nipples), weak suck etc etc (long story).... we had so many problems from day 1. Which lasted for weeks..... I sometimes wonder if I'd had the help of an LC immediately from day 1, would our problems have been as bad as they were for weeks and weeks?? Not sure....
I asked to see the hospital LC but they said they didn't have one in the hospital at that time I needed one badly. I didn't see one until DD was 2wks old at our house which was too late in terms of needing the help sooner, i needed to see one sooner! But thankfully with persistence we kept going and help of the LC!!!!
I agree, hospitals are too busy to have the time to spend with each new mum (or any mum for that matter) to help support them with initiating BF'ing journey.
Hospitals need more LC's and more 'specialised' BF nurses.
My plan for baby #2..... I have a LC I am going to call when I have baby #2, she does home visits and I'm going to get her to come and see me in hospital on day one! Watch us feeding and then see her again 2 or 3 days later to check on us again..... I want more specialised care and I'm prepared to pay for it.
Ali. It's really not good enough is it? I don't think you should feel bad at all. You did well to function after being awake that long!
I had a similar experience - although our first feed happened within an hour or so of Js birth, later that night the mws were telling me I didn't need to feed him (I did insist and needed their help as I was flat on my back and unable to lift him) and the next day they were telling me it was my fault he was unsettled because my milk hadn't come in and "we'll take him for a while so you can rest - you don't have any milk for him". To my eternal shame I let them take him for a couple of hours. I wasn't thinking straight either after a difficult birth and heavy PPH. When they brought him back and I asked if he'd slept, they said he'd been awake and screaming/crying the whole time. I was mortified and kept him with me after that and fed him whenever he woke up which was often. The advice for me to not feed him as often could have been devastating, because of my blood loss, I actually needed all the help I could get to ensure my milk came in. I didn't even see a LC at all and only had a handful of feeds observed. They told me he had "textbook attachment" but he was pulling back regularly on my nipple (frustrated at slow let downs I think) and he managed to do a lot of damage that way. I was annoyed too. I'd done a lot of reading but you don't know what you don't know.
I have a mate who has a one week old girl - she ended up cracking it at her mw's because of all the conflicting advice she got every single shift. It's so common.
Anyway, that's a bit of a ramble, but I wanted to put my 2 cents worth in to say you're definitely not alone. Put in a complaint if it will make you feel better darl. If enough women complain, they will have to start training their staff more.
I am so sorry that so many of us had bad experiences at hospital. With all the publicity about breastfeeding being so important to start babies off on, they are letting women and babies down by not giving the correct advice to begin with.
So many of you have had such great points.
Miss E- thanks hun It took me 9months to get it out but am kind of comforted IYKWIM that I am not alone although it shouldnt happen to anyone, I just dont feel like it was my fault as much.
Kaz- that is terrible. I am so sorry you had that experience.
Shanti- I know you had a really tough time to start out with bf DD and you have done such a wonderful job to get through all that. It was great that you were so determined as that rough start could have easily made you give up had you not been. It would be great if every new mum saw a LC on day 1, just like a doctor comes round to check the baby and mum, a LC should come and check out the bf and help, explain and answer questions.
MR- It is scary to know how many women like me were given incorrect information and advice from trained hospital staff who you would think would know.
Gigi- I have been told by some people it is time to wean so I can have a life! I mean WTF kind of comment is that! I like you had just got to the stage where DD's and my breastfeeding realtionship was going great and I havent felt like my life is restricted at all!. I told them I have a great life thanks!
fourthontheway- Couldnt agree more! They are sending the wrong message and so many women like some ho have posted in this thread have then as a consequence had to go to formula.
Shell- after reading all of this I might just put in a complaint. I would like to have future children at the same hospital as apart from the breastfeeding I had a wonderful experience so it cant hurt to tell them how they could improve their care.
Raven- I really thought they would have said something since they were checking my charts why nothing was said.
Wish I could respond to everyone as you have all said such valid things and I really do thank you for sharing your experiences with me. It has taken a massive weight off my shoulders.
hun, thanks for sharing your story. It's really important that mums-to-be are aware that they need to be proactive in getting bfing help before and after birth, because unfortunately, not only is your situation common, it's the NORM!
I did the bfing class at the hospital and I had BB to educate me before birth. I was very focused on getting bfing right - it was my main concern since I was having a c/s due to placenta praevia. I didn't get skin-to-skin straight away and I was away from DD for half an hour (or more) while in recovery. DP brought her in to me as soon as I got back to my room and asked. I got her out and put her to the bb straight away. I did all the things I learned/read about, without any MW or LC there. I wasn't prepared to wait, I was hell bent on having DD on the bb within the first two hours of her birth. She bf beautifully.
A very shocked MW came in as we were bfing and told me I should have waited, but took one look at her and left me to it. They did come and pay attention to me when I bf for the next few hours, but she was taken to the nursery until early am when I could get up and walk about. (They did bring her into me when she woke up, but I really wish I hadn't been pushed out to the last c/s of the day so I couldn't just keep her with me.)
Despite our relatively good start to bfing, the one thing I really didn't like was the MW the following night. DD and I were doing really well and she 'expressed' my colostrum for me to syringe feed DD. There really wasn't any need and I don't appreciate the way I was manhandled. Even though I'd been so proactive and confident in my advice and ability to bf, I still got 'bullied' into doing something completely unnecessary and quite confronting. Next time, (if I don't get my home birth!) I'll put my foot down even harder.
i count myself 'lucky' that the midwife who attended my birth was pretty savvy with the whole b/f thang, so DD and i got off to a good start...
BUT on the 2nd night i was harangued by an over zealous LC who yelled at me because i was 'evidently' dehydrating my baby by not feeding her enough. she failed to read the notes on myself and DD that we were on a fairly strict feed schedule because DD was low birth weight and had respitory issues. she demanded then and there (waking my baby up!!) that she needed to get on the boob and not stop. ANYWAY, DD began to feed again (after only having had a full feed 10 mins prior). what resulted was that she became sooo full of milk (mine came in early) that her belly just couldnt cope (when bubbas are born their bellies are the size of a marble so imagine!). after almost 4 hours of solid feeding (and screaming from DD and tears from me) i walked out of the room hysterical with DD in my arms and searched out another midwife (i had buzzed previously only to get the LC back in the room yelling at me, and telling me not to annoy anyone and keep quiet and keep feeding). the midwife that saw me immediately saw teh agony that DD was going through and she had to be taken to SCN for 24 hours (and put on oxygen all over again). i felt like a monster having done that to my baby. up until that point i felt really cool and comfy with the b/f...after that i would experience moments of panic if DD coughed or guzzled on the boob as it brought back that horrendous night.
Don't feel embarrassed hun, despite the theory that BF is natural and instinctive it really isn't! I too had no idea when to feed my baby and the first couple of days were very confusing. After an emergency c-section I didn't get that initial skin to skin contact, when I finally did get that my DD was so out of from being distressed in labour and drugs that I had been given that she had no interest in the boob. I didn't know what to do and felt silly for asking plus I was a wreck from the birth anyway. The MW kept asking me if she'd fed and I said no, I couldn't get her to feed so the MW helped me but had no luck either as DD was like a zombie, so the MW expressed my colostrum and gave it to DD. A couple of hours later the MW came back and we tried again, this time she did latch on but still I really had no idea when to feed and no one really told me plus seeing as it takes a few days for your milk to come in I didn't know if there were different rules for feeding the colostrum or what... see, I was totally clueless as well! Thankfully the MW BF support I got was really good (aside from noone telling me exactly how often to feed my baby) a MW came around every few hours and helped me with positioning to make sure DD was attached properly so in the end I guess I did feed her enough due to the MW showing me how BUT it certainly wasn't an instinctive thing for me.
Sounds like you've done an amazing job to continue b/feeding all this time after a rocky start, well done!
Oh you poor thing! That is terrible don't be embarrassed at all.
ds1 didn't feed that much after he was born either he was sleeping and I too didn't know any better. At about 15hrs old he went to scn and was tube fed formula as his bsl's were dangerously low due to me having gd during this time I was told to rest so I did, I didn't express or anything to help my milk come in. I think during this time everything si so new you are tired and there are visitors, bp checks, ppl bring meals in etc and ur just not thinking straight. I think it is also a fault in the system that pregnancy and birth is so managed etc and you get TOLD what to do while in hospital, feed this often, DON'T feed unless there is a mw etc etc
I think because you have had medical prfessionals there telling you what to do the whole way through you don't make that change over to doing what you think until you go home and there is no one there to tell you anymore at which point you feel very wierd and feel like you don't know what you are doing.
I think it would be great if you go sat down and breast feeding was explained more, how it works, how often you should feed in the early days, what to do if you have a very sleepy bub, that cluster feeding is normal and doesn't mean you don't have enough milk etc etc that way mums would feel more confident and there would be time to ask questions etc I think it would be so wonderful if this happened with an lc and each mum and then you were able to contact your designated lc if you need help.
Don't feel bad you were following advice given by a midwife! I think it would be great if you made a formal complaint with the hospital so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again. You are a wonderful mum and I am sorry you had such a bad experience with your first day of breastfeeding, congratulations on the wonderful bf relatonship you and Ashlyn now have xo
I know this is an old thread but I can really relate to what is talked about here. The conflicting advice is annoying. When I had DD we had skin to skin for a few hours and she had her first feed during that time so off to a good start. They would always ask me on the ward the times we fed and made notes. I would comment about her extended sleeping, she certainly never woke hourly or two hourly for a feed. No one commented I wasn't feeding her enough and the push was 'feed on demand' so whenever she woke up I would feed her. I went home and had two midwifes come to the home for the post natal care. Worrying about how often to feed and the fact my DD was a good sleeper from the outset (4hr blocks not uncommon), I kept a diary of start and finish times. Both midwives said it was fine. MCHN came for the first visit a week later and she said same thing. I 'fed on demand' which was every time she woke up but because she slept a lot we were only feeding about 6 times a day but for long times (40-60min). With each midwife, I was asked about dirty nappies and I told them every second day which was aparently fine (she had lots of poos the first few days but once the moconium passed things slowed down). So I continued to do what I did because so many people told me no probs. I even had a pregnancy LC visit at the hospital but in that time no one talked about how often and how long to feed a baby and how many wet or dirty nappies. I had a LC visit a week after she was born and because the visit was about attachment, how often to feed was never discussed.
So imagine my horror when 2-3 weeks later I was on the ABA web site reading how babies should feed 8-12 times a day (with 10+ being average!!!) with 3-4 dirty nappies. I rang the hotline and they said I hadn't been feeding enough and she had to have that many dirty nappies. So in a panic I rang MCHN for an extra appointment and ended up there in tears, guilty and worrying I had been under feeding and lack of pooh and was told and reassured again everything was fine (small weight gains but no losses). She suggested I wake 3 hourly during the day and let her go at night so now at 6w I'm still doing this. I STILL DONT KNOW what the right answer is. I feel like a fool and embarrassed. I am still confused. Even with waking 3hourly during the day when I put her down after last feed say 8-10pm she will wake around 2-4am for a feed and then not again until anywhere between 7-9am so taking those large blocks into account in the 24hr period, with daytime wakes we are still only averaging about 6-8 feeds. The MCHN said it is normal for a BF baby to not pooh for days but I had read in their first month they should pooh 3-4times/day and it was then normal for them not to after the first month but she disagreed with that. I have since had another appointment (with a different nurse) and showed her my feeding diary and she again says it all looks 'great'.
I still doubt myself and what I'm doing and my DD is 6w !!! I still dont know what the right answer is but based on everything I've read I'm not feeding her enough but based on everything I'm TOLD I am !!!??? I'm going to the Doctor this week and I'm sure I'll have another opinion again. I still feel guilty and wish I could go back in time 6w and start all over again with having read about feeding 8-12 times 3/4 dirty nappies then I could of discussed this with the LC. I'm trying to get another LC appointment so will yet again discuss it with someone else for their 2c.
Hi. The conflicting advice does make it difficult -what is a newmum to think? Te me, what has her growth rate been like? Usually babies don't thrive on just 6 feeds - some do but most need more feeds. And several poos a day is more common in a newborn.
She was born 3300 gms.
Lost 240gms day 3.
Day 5 hadn't lost, hadn't gained.
Day 12 gained 60gms (3120 total weight).
Day 20 gained another 195gms (3315 total).
Day 27 gained 75gms (total 3390 gms).
5 weeks gained 140gms (total 3530 gms)
Now 6 weeks .. not due for weigh for 3 more weeks. Going to see if I can find a local Chemist to weigh her inbetween or see if the Doctors have scales.
I am so sorry you had that experience! It would have been so easy to end up not breastfeeding after that. You should be very proud that you pushed through.
I had a weird experience, I fed for the first 2 days and then my milk didn't "come in" and they said my baby was hungry and gave her some formula and then before I was discharged I had to go and learn how to make formula. I didn't really take it in because I had an emergency c section and I didn't know which way was up. But I remember feeling devastated that my baby would be formula fed.
Then that afternoon my milk came in and I could have fed an army for a year, my baby never had any problems attaching etc and in hindsight I think, "I can't be the first person whose milk took awhile to come in, why dicount breastfeeding so quickly?"
I should have joined this website BEFORE I had my baby!
I think the answer lies in your baby. Her growth rate seems pretty normal. Is she happy and content? You've got to love that long stretch over night.
There are just some general parameters that guide health professionals dealing with babies. They don't apply to all babies - babies haven't read the rule books. When a baby follows a bit of a different path, it's just worth having a close look to make sure all is well. If you then conclude it "aint broke" there's no need to fix it. But most babies do feed according to the ABa information - and on the other side of the coin many mothers feel that their baby is not normal if it feeds 8-12 times per day. It is!
Just as a guide, babies usually lose around 10% of their birthweight in the first days after birth (yours lost less) and then regain their birthweight by 2 weeks, then put on 150-250g therafter for the first 12 weeks. They usually have one longish sleep in 24 hours. And one time of the day when they are grumpy and unsettled and want a cluster of feeds. And otherwise, they are just babies - sometimes they sleep, sometimes they don't, sometimes they cry for no reason, sometimes they don't
Have you considered joining the Australian Breastfeeding Association and getting along to their meetings? It's great to get out and mix with other mums and babies - see that they come in all shapes and sizes and with all temperaments and they are all....normal. And there are always breastfeeding counsellors available to chat over any issues you are having
thank you that is reassuring. I think she is happy and content. sure she can scream just like any baby, i think she suffers pains and lots of wind. mostly she is fine and her unsettled/cluster period is btw 6-10pm. When she's screaming it can normally be resolved with a big burp and sometimes burp after burp. Last night she wouldnt stop crying so I kept feeding (maybe growth spurt i fed on the hour!) with lots of burps and she flaked 10pm and then slept til 3.30am back down 4.30 and awake again 7am. Day hours she is happy and content IMO. When she is awake too long then she gets grizzly. So her times of unsettled behaviour I can normally pinpoint to hunger, pain, nappy or tiredness.. If she grizzles strait after a feed I take that to mean she wants more and I put her back on to finish, I dont count this as another feed I just count it as finishing off the other. She doesnt seem to be putting on 150-250g a week though. I have thought of the local meets, I might go next wk esp if I cant get appt with the council LC
Last edited by coffeegal; January 29th, 2010 at 08:59 AM.
) anyway, she then slept for about 3hrs from memory and then woke up hungry. I called a MW in for every feed but I had to because I had no idea what I was doing and also DD would not get on and attach (flat nipples), weak suck etc etc (long story).... we had so many problems from day 1. Which lasted for weeks..... I sometimes wonder if I'd had the help of an LC immediately from day 1, would our problems have been as bad as they were for weeks and weeks?? Not sure.... 
Reply With QuoteAli. It's really not good enough is it? I don't think you should feel bad at all. You did well to function after being awake that long!
I like you had just got to the stage where DD's and my breastfeeding realtionship was going great and I havent felt like my life is restricted at all!. I told them I have a great life thanks! 
why nothing was said. 
but still I really had no idea when to feed and no one really told me plus seeing as it takes a few days for your milk to come in I didn't know if there were different rules for feeding the colostrum or what... see, I was totally clueless as well! Thankfully the MW BF support I got was really good (aside from noone telling me exactly how often to feed my baby) a MW came around every few hours and helped me with positioning to make sure DD was attached properly so in the end I guess I did feed her enough due to the MW showing me how BUT it certainly wasn't an instinctive thing for me. 
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