Make Breastfeeding Compulsory for 6 mths? WDYT?

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*scratches head* interesting rationale. Could also apply it to just about everything else to do with parenting one endures ;) My day is full of doing things that I've grown rather tired of doing :)

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i can "kinda" understand the "tired of breastfeeding" sentiment - i am working, DH is not. overnight though, it's still ME that has to deal with DD as she wants breast. water doesn't cut it. EBM doesn't cut it. she wants breast so i'm IT. we have a teething poppet atm so a good night is two wake ups - a bad night - well, i won't go there! i love that i have been able to BF, esp given all the other things my body wouldn't do properly! but i am having nights where i'm over it and would quite happily "hand her over" to DH for the night so i can have an unbroken sleep!

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I had mid wife support for bf but didn't get much info, maybe a leaflet? There's an optional class. MAYBE there should be compulsary classes on things like bf. So the parents cant make anything BUT an informed choice:)

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why should anything be compulsory though? as long as your child is not neglected, why should anyone else dictate what you do during pregnancy, birth or beyond? isn't that the whole argument people are making?

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Ok in regards to limiting the availability of formula, I really can't understand how that's fair. Can you think of anything worse than running out of formula for your baby and having to trek across the city to access it? What about if you run out in the middle of the night and it's only available from stores that are open office hours?

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I don't really see how it's any different to now. Not everyone lives near a supermarket or chemist that is open 24 hours. I'm sure there are lots of formula feeding parents in remote areas who live hours from the closest shop. They just make sure they are stocked up to prevent that situation. The perscription could work like it does for the birth control pill or any other medication that is taken long term, you get several repeats which prevents having to get a new script constantly.

I definitley believe formula has it's place for women who have problems whether they are physical or emotional. What bothers me are those who choose it because they think it is no different to breastmilk. And for that we only have advertising to blame. Yes it's your choice, but perhaps had they received adequate information and support on the matter they may have chosen differently?

This is on par with the compulsory vaccination debate......near impossible to enforce and a complete disregard to basic human rights.....

When I heard this on the morning show - or the Today program - yesterday, I got so angry!
How does she have the right to say that?! If it's not medically possible to feed your child, then it can't be done! Then again, I'm probably very resentful that I couldn't BF my DS for longer than I did because of medical issues

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why should anything be compulsory though? as long as your child is not neglected, why should anyone else dictate what you do during pregnancy, birth or beyond? isn't that the whole argument people are making?

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That way Australia is basing its choices on fact and info, what ever they choose. We can parent in any way we choose but we should have access to education. And if people arn't going into with looking for this info then it should be a must. Not to tell you "you should bf" but to give the facts, not how bad formula is, just what your choice involves.
A gentle, full of info class/s

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When I heard this on the morning show - or the Today program - yesterday, I got so angry!
How does she have the right to say that?! If it's not medically possible to feed your child, then it can't be done! Then again, I'm probably very resentful that I couldn't BF my DS for longer than I did because of medical issues

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That is why formula is available

if we're talking education, i guess we have to go back and actually "fix" education in schools. yes reading, writing and arithmetic are important, but so is real life education. why is it not part of core science classes to teach about human biology - reproduction is (briefly) covered - why is it not covered more deeply. not necessarily the act of sex (as a lot of parents don't want that taught and i understand their stance) BUT, the science behind it. in a one hour BF "class" we had it explaiend to us how the breats works, how the constitution of BM changes depending on child age, needs, even the weather. this could all be incorporated into biology lessons so that it's not a case of playing catch up when someone is pregnant or a new mum

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I don't really see how it's any different to now. Not everyone lives near a supermarket or chemist that is open 24 hours. I'm sure there are lots of formula feeding parents in remote areas who live hours from the closest shop. They just make sure they are stocked up to prevent that situation. The perscription could work like it does for the birth control pill or any other medication that is taken long term, you get several repeats which prevents having to get a new script constantly.

I definitley believe formula has it's place for women who have problems whether they are physical or emotional. What bothers me are those who choose it because they think it is no different to breastmilk. And for that we only have advertising to blame. Yes it's your choice, but perhaps had they received adequate information and support on the matter they may have chosen differently?

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Sorry for the double post - but here in Perth, I actually don't know of any 24 hour chemists - and there's definitely no 24 hour supermarkets and the only thing we have that's close to 24 hours is a Deli that's bout 40 minute drive from home.

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I definitley believe formula has it's place for women who have problems whether they are physical or emotional. What bothers me are those who choose it because they think it is no different to breastmilk. And for that we only have advertising to blame.

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i don't really think anyone thinks it's 'no different' to breastmilk, but it is a good option for mothers who choose not to breastfeed (for whatever damn reason).
noone here has disputed that 'breast is best' in its nutritional qualities etc, simply that not every mother chooses to go down that path. which is thier choice, they don't have to justify it to anyone.
just because somebody can bf does not automatically put them up on the 'parenting pedestool', i know quite a few trashy mothers who bf thier children whilst either stoned or wasted beyond belief. surely you're not going to tell me they're doing a better job at feeding their child than someone who formula feeds???

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Sorry for the double post - but here in Perth, I actually don't know of any 24 hour chemists - and there's definitely no 24 hour supermarkets and the only thing we have that's close to 24 hours is a Deli that's bout 40 minute drive from home.

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Exactly. So you always make sure you have stocked up on formula right? ;)

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That is why formula is available

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I know that Kass, that's why my DS is on formula ;)
I'm just saying you just can't enforce it and make it compulsary to be BFing
As I said, it's probably because I'm still bitter that I never got to BF for longer than 8 weeks

I don't think breastFEEDING should be compulsory for six months, but perhaps we should make breastMILK compulsory for six months.

Let me explain:

I totally get that some mothers can't or don't want to breastfeed their child. We do need to address some society attitudes and support offered to new mothers, but let's put that to one side.

Why can't breastmilk be made readily available to those mothers that aren't breastfeeding themselves? Why can't a mother go to the chemist (and their well-stocked fridge - in my world) and buy homogenised pastuerised human milk instead of cows milk for their babies? Why can't we place the same value on providing human milk to all babies, not just those whose mothers personally breastfeed?

I understand why that hasn't happened. But if we're going to throw around suggestions like giving mothers no choice about breastfeeding, why can't we suggest that instead we make a human milk product readily available and let them still have the option of choice.

Better outcome for babies and no deprivation of civil rights.

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just because somebody can bf does not automatically put them up on the 'parenting pedestool', i know quite a few trashy mothers who bf thier children whilst either stoned or wasted beyond belief. surely you're not going to tell me they're doing a better job at feeding their child than someone who formula feeds???

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The problem in this scenario isn't the method of feeding but the intoxication of the parent. An intoxicated mother who breastfeeds doesn't have to mix her breastmilk but an intoxicated mother who uses ABM does have to mix it. That's a recipe for disaster right there - the harm done by incorrect measuring could be pretty awful.
It's also entirely possible that a stoner mum might produce milk that is more nutritionally sound than ABM.

As for 24 hour chemists - the human race has survived for thousands of years without 24 hour chemists and funnily enough many still do. AFAIK they still haven't been placed on the hierachy of needs.

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The problem in this scenario isn't the method of feeding but the intoxication of the parent. An intoxicated mother who breastfeeds doesn't have to mix her breastmilk but an intoxicated mother who uses ABM does have to mix it. That's a recipe for disaster right there - the harm done by incorrect measuring could be pretty awful.
It's also entirely possible that a stoner mum might produce milk that is more nutritionally sound than ABM.

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yes, i'm sure a mix of breastmilk and jim beam is a perfect concoction for an infant, much better than a bottle of formula.

The amount of alcohol that you need to consume to pass it on in your milk in any significant amount is so large that you would probably pass out instead of feeding. Breastmilk is nutritionally appropriate food even in cases when mothers have ludicrously inappropriate diets.

Boobaloo - I need to spread the love!

I can't see how breast milk containing all sorts of illegal or legal drugs could be a better nutritional option than formula. What about the effect of the drugs carried in breastmilk on a young infant?

BW

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I don't think breastFEEDING should be compulsory for six months, but perhaps we should make breastMILK compulsory for six months.

Let me explain:

I totally get that some mothers can't or don't want to breastfeed their child. We do need to address some society attitudes and support offered to new mothers, but let's put that to one side.

Why can't breastmilk be made readily available to those mothers that aren't breastfeeding themselves? Why can't a mother go to the chemist (and their well-stocked fridge - in my world) and buy homogenised pastuerised human milk instead of cows milk for their babies? Why can't we place the same value on providing human milk to all babies, not just those whose mothers personally breastfeed?

I understand why that hasn't happened. But if we're going to throw around suggestions like giving mothers no choice about breastfeeding, why can't we suggest that instead we make a human milk product readily available and let them still have the option of choice.

Better outcome for babies and no deprivation of civil rights.

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Good idea, but completely unworkable and unfeasible. Where are you going to get all this milk from? Human milk dairy farms? I would say all the milk bank used now is predominately for the use of sick newborn, premature babies. And the hoops to go through before you can donate are huge. Basically if you can't donate blood you can't donate milk, and look how hard is it to get blood donors and that pool iof potential donors is huge.

Nor do I agree with having formula on prescription. It's already difficult to get a GP appointment, if my baby was starving hubngry I can't wait a week to see a GP, and quite frankly the fact that formula was available in the supermarket had absolutely no bearing on my decision to change to formula feeding after 5 months, after all milk from the breast that is always there is a bit more convinient. Yes formula is a substitute for breast milk and that is it a substitute. Shall we put all vitamin supplements on prescription as well? Too much of those can be dangerous, maybe you should only be able to buy them from a qualified pharmacist as well, the same for herbal supplements.

As long as a baby is fed appropriately, and looked after well, is it anyone's business if that baby gets it's nourishment from a bottle or the breast?

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Boobaloo - I need to spread the love!

I can't see how breast milk containing all sorts of illegal or legal drugs could be a better nutritional option than formula. What about the effect of the drugs carried in breastmilk on a young infant?

BW

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exactly. but you know, these women are FAR better mothers than those that give thier child nutritionally balanced formula *severe sarcasm*

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Boobaloo - I need to spread the love!

I can't see how breast milk containing all sorts of illegal or legal drugs could be a better nutritional option than formula. What about the effect of the drugs carried in breastmilk on a young infant?

BW

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Is the cow's milk in formula drug free? Antibiotics for mastitis? Worming medicine? De-lousing and tick treatments? Fertilizers and chemicals in the feed? Chemical sprays to clean and de-infest the dairy?

I'd rather take my chances with trace amounts of alcomohol.

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exactly. but you know, these women are FAR better mothers than those that give thier child nutritionally balanced formula *severe sarcasm*

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Who said anything about good or bad mothers? I have no doubt that many terrific mothers use formula but I'm talking about formula and breast milk not mothers. There is nothing to be gained by pretending that formula is the nutritional equal of breast milk.

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Is the cow's milk in formula drug free? Antibiotics for mastitis? Worming medicine? De-lousing and tick treatments? Fertilizers and chemicals in the feed? Chemical sprays to clean and de-infest the dairy?

I'd rather take my chances with trace amounts of alcomohol.

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And caffeine, and preservatives and artificial colourings from dietary sources, and pesticides and insectides from fruit and veggies, hormones and drugs from the meat you eat etc etc

what about speed? ecstacy? marijuana? i have seen numerous mothers in *small town* breastfeeding thier child, whilst under the influence of these drugs, plus huge amounts of grog.
how can that be better than formula?

If those mothers were mixing formula how accurate do you think their measurements would be? How often would a baby need to be given formula that was too weak or too strong before it had an impact on their health?

they could either pre make bottles, or have someone in a responsible state of mind do it for them.
how's breastfeeding your child, whilst smashed, with an increased risk of drpping the baby, falling over, passing out, more socially responsible than a bottle of bloody formula???

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And caffeine, and preservatives and artificial colourings from dietary sources, and pesticides and insectides from fruit and veggies, hormones and drugs from the meat you eat etc etc

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Despite all those things breastmilk is still nutritionally appropriate. Women with can terrible diets still provide their babies with a normal diet - aint that grand :)

Ummmmmm, this has got nasty and uninformative (if thats a word?)

FACT- Alcohole laced bm is still better for baby then formula.

Again! You CANNOT argue the HARDCORE facts. You are not a bad mother for not bf no matter your choice BUT FACT breastmilk is BETTER and should be given if possible;)

So please lets not deny the FACTS. As you just cant, there's no argument there.

This is what Im talking about. FF is one thing but to deny bm of its greatness is just silly......

Any way, that hot supermodel sure knows how to start a convo!

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they could either pre make bottles, or have someone in a responsible state of mind do it for them.
how's breastfeeding your child, whilst smashed, with an increased risk of drpping the baby, falling over, passing out, more socially responsible than a bottle of bloody formula???

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If they are handling the baby to give it a bottle all those risks still apply. They can also pre-pump if they want to plan ahead.

Onyx, I have never taken illegal drugs. But the line you are drawing is implying that you think I would have done better to breastfeed my son even while taking the various prescription medications I need to take in order to be functional.

One of them, methotrexate, is normally used in chemotherapy. Patients using this drug are advised to double flush the toilet. It's considered to be so toxic that pregnant and breastfeeding women are advised to not even handle the drug. But you seem to be saying that breastmilk carrying that drug would have been a better option for my son than formula.

BW

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Ummmmmm, this has got nasty and uninformative (if thats a word?)

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yeah, discussing the micro details of a few deadbeat Mums is pretty silly and has nothing to do with the big picture lol.

Thanks for the reminder.

with all due respect to everyone - the way this conversation is going is why threads on FF/BF should be closed from the moment they're started.

there are people who will believe that, no matter what the mother introduces to her body, BM is going to be better than ABM. there are others who won't. it's not worth pushing your POV cos you're not going to change the other sides mind. if you believe that a mother taking ecstacy and giving her child BM is ok - fine - YOU believe it. personally, i don't. there is a REASON people "pump and dump" after certain medications or after having too much to drink.

ABM isn't breast milk. fantastic - we're all in agreeance! it is more appropriately nutritious than other alternatives when BM is not an option. watered down cows milk, full strength cows milk etc. if BM is NOT AN OPTION for whatever reason, formula is the most appropriate alternative for an infant. stop beating up on each other for having different views!

Just butting in, with all the talk re formula on prescription, in my local area of some 6000 people we only have TWO DOCTORS. There is currently a 6 week wait to get in to see a Dr for a non urgent reason - I am not kidding - that is how bad the Dr situation is in our town so it is utterly ridiculous and unfeasible to have it available via script only in a lot of cases. It is all well and good to suggest these things when you live in a metro area, but again it seems like rural areas have been forgotten among the good intentions ;) And that is just my area that is reasonably close to civilisation, but in really remote places where your closest neighbour is 400km away and to go shopping means a 3 day trip makes the suggestion even more unfeasible. And then some rural towns don't even have Dr's so what are we supposed to do?

I've always believed formula should be less available- you can buy it everywhere! Why on earth is kmart selling a medical product? And I know so many women who have some in the cupboard while still pregnant, "just in case"??

If you have low supply you don't need to run out and buy formula overnight at a 24 hour chemist- you can keep trying to feed your baby and nurse them through the night. And see health professionals before starting on formula. I know the low supply game- I played it and its hard. I saw midwives, lactation consultants at a BFing clinic, a MCHN and a doctor with noone able to work out why all the pumping and prescribed work I was doing wasn't working. My MCHN told me I had "done all I could" and I agreed to comp feed my son as he was getting more and more sick. But then I hired a private lactation consultant and found the tricks to turn it around so I only comp fed a minimum amount for about 2 weeks then let my son slowly gain the weight back as we re-established my supply.

My point is that I was told I couldn't BF and it was wrong. It breaks my heart to think other woman may be told the same thing. I almost did develop PND, but being able to establish BFing helped me- formula would not have.

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Onyx, I have never taken illegal drugs. But the line you are drawing is implying that you think I would have done better to breastfeed my son even while taking the various prescription medications I need to take in order to be functional.

One of them, methotrexate, is normally used in chemotherapy. Patients using this drug are advised to double flush the toilet. It's considered to be so toxic that pregnant and breastfeeding women are advised to not even handle the drug. But you seem to be saying that breastmilk carrying that drug would have been a better option for my son than formula.

BW

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I am aware of this because you have said so in numerous threads. As Mick has pointed out this makes you a bad Mum as much as not being able to walk makes a Mum in a wheelchair a bad Mum however it doesn't alter the reality that in most cases breastmilk is a nutritionally apropriate food for infants. I'm not sure why people take this fact as a personal attack.

I had to take a certain medication that I was told I couldn't bf with in my system. A chemist told me Lucy got all she could from me as she's over 6 months!!! Thats scary that a chemist knows so little:(

Anywho, I googled and everything told me not to. So I called many drug specialists and they all said its fine to! '

What Im saying is, how sad its soooooo difficult to get good, solid help.

I fed through with the medication:)

I dont know about other drugs but I do know that there are so many things we're told not to take while feeding is usually just fine to! Clearly again we do not know enough about bf.

We cannot be taking facts as attacks.

Also a mother should not be doing drugs around her child FULL STOP, but thats for another thread;):lol:

At least the thread on this forum is providing intellectual debate and discussion - you should see what they have been saying about this on other forums ROFL - most of what is said is just personal and derogatory attacks.

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I had to take a certain medication that I was told I couldn't bf with in my system. A chemist told me Lucy got all she could from me as she's over 6 months!!! Thats scary that a chemist knows so little:(

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Kass, the meds that BW had to take are actually used to abort fetuses in ectopic pregnancies. it's a no go. doesnt matter what information may or may not be around, it's just what it is. its a poison and is not appropriate to take while BF. not eveyrthing is safe to just push through...

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I am aware of this because you have said so in numerous threads. As Mick has pointed out this makes you a bad Mum as much as not being able to walk makes a Mum in a wheelchair a bad Mum however it doesn't alter the reality that in most cases breastmilk is a nutritionally apropriate food for infants. I'm not sure why people take this fact as a personal attack.

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Onyx - we all understand that BM is nutrionally far better for our babies. WE ALL GET THAT. It's some of your comments that are a little, um, flippant (for want of a better word). Formula is the next best thing to BM so when mothers choose to FF their children, they don't need to be told they are 'medicating' their child or have it compared to hard core drugs. If it wasn't a safe substitue, it wouldn't be available -simple.

As for being able to get it at Kmart, well that's just the world we live in - we have the luxury now of being able to get more things at one place. You could say the same about all the medicines and vitamins available at the supermarket. We would all moan and carry on if we couldn't get half of the things we've come accustomed to getting at the supermarket.

But seriously, comparing formula to medication or drugs is ridiculous. Yes, it needs to be prepared carefully but you know what, so does breastmilk. What you eat and drink DOES affect your breastmilk - ask any BFing mother with a lactose intollerant baby or those with reflux. They have to watch what they eat closely or their baby gets sick. They have to 'prepare' their BM carefully too.

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Kass, the meds that BW had to take are actually used to abort fetuses in ectopic pregnancies. it's a no go. doesnt matter what information may or may not be around, it's just what it is. its a poison and is not appropriate to take while BF. not eveyrthing is safe to just push through...

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Oh no, I wasnt say that:(
Just saying how misinformed I was.

Someone mentioned education ... so many posts back I've lost track and can't quote it ....

My eldest daughter was breastfed. But when I was pregnant with her little sister she was convinced I needed bottles to feed her. Somewhere along the line she absorbed society's opinion that food comes from bottles. Probably from TV and Baby Born style dolls with bottles. I had to argue that they didn't need bottles every time we passed some in the chemist or supermarket.

She remembers babies eat boobies now so no such problems with her little brother, and she's old enough she's likely to remember for the rest of her life now so it'll probably stick with her.

Seriously???
We are picking and pulling out everyones words and making it personal?? :rolleyes:

No one said BW should of b/f with her meds. No one.

And what DM said is completly true. We are told not to take a LOT of meds when B/F, but when you get down to it, and call the drug info line, they say its completly fine.

I was told when EBM'ing for Kane not to take more than 60mg of Motilium, its dangerous. Rang the info line cause it wasn't working, and 90mg was the limit. 60mg didn't work, but the 90mg dose kept him in BM for 10 months!!! A massive difference to 3 months. ;)

And many many times we have heard it said that people on drugs and drinkers/smokers should still B/F. It still outweighs not getting BM, such a small amount is transvered.

On a side note, a long term study has shown that up to 10 drinks a week (alcohol) when pregnant had no differing outcome than non drinkers.

Although most will of course just have to argue this, :p, it doesn't change the outcome or the results, does it??
Just because some wont believe it, doesn't make it a lie!! :p