Would like to BF and bottle feed baby from EBM from word go - how do I do it?

[farmgirl77]

Hello,

Friends of mine have a great system going (well I think it is) where Mum breastfeeds but her DH gives their baby a bottle in the evening so Mum can go to bed early and get a few extra unbroken hrs of sleep before getting up during the night to feed. They feed formula for the bottle feed, which works really well, and have done so since bringing their baby home. I like the idea and so does my DH, I think that it another great way of getting DH involved with the baby, and giving mum some rest! So, DH and I have talked about this as an option for us, and we would like to try it...but I would like to try and express and give our baby a bottle of expressed milk rather than formula. We also expect that due to family circumstances there will be times when I need to leave DH with the baby to look after my Mum - hence another reason to have some confidence that our baby, once born, will take a bottle!

So, I'm planning on having to express to make up one feed a day, so my questions are around how I go about this and what do I need?

I figure that I need a pump - so is a hand pump ok for once a day expressing, and if yes, what is recommended? I figure that I'll also need bottles - but what kind and what kind of teats? I notice the Avent kits - but are they that good or just good at marketing - is there another brand, and or kind of teat that I need to look for. And lastly, keeping stuff clean...I noticed that the Avent microwave steraliser was about $70, but the Big W brand one looked about the same but was $19 - do they do the same job or is there one that is clearly the best?

Any advice much appreciated.
Thanks
FG

[Snacks]

Hiya FG. It does sound like a great system, and I was going to give it a go with my firstborn but my DH wasn't as motivated as me to take part.
I'm going to suggest you wait a couple of weeks before you start because that's valuable time for you and baby to learn how to breastfeed. Feeding from the bottle is much easier for bubs than the breast, so beware that you may have a baby who doesn't transfer from bottle to breast without a fuss.
I have a hand pump that was passed on to me from a relative. I have found it sufficient in the past for getting enough milk for when I needed it (when going out or whatever). If you are only giving her one feed of ebm per day then you'll probably find the hand pump sufficient. You could even try hand expressing (without a pump) first to see if that works for you before shelling out for a pump.
I've heard that the TT bottles are great. I've also heard that Pidgeon make a teat that's got a cross-shaped hole in it that aparently imitates the flow of milk from the breast pretty well.
Don't know anything about sterilisers though, sorry. I have always just used milton.
GL!

[Sagres]

I haven't done this myself, just wanted to pass on some info about this approach I got from a lactation consultant. Basically she said even if you don't BF for that 1 feed a day, she suggested you still need to express then and not skip that 'feed' altogether. Her reason was supply related i.e. if you skip the feed entirely your body will adjust and produce less milk. So she kind of said yes, you can get your hubby to do the feed but you will want to get up and express at about the same time anyway. She was talking about taking over a 3am feed though.....if you are talking evening you may be able to express a bit earlier than the feed to still give you a block of sleep.
As I said I haven't done it so this is purely from a theoretical perspective

[~Raven~]

I did this and it works well, especially if you have a nipple injury that needs a rest or you need a sleep.

Be mindful not to over pump because you can end up with sore engorged breasts for longer than need be. But also be careful not to go too long between expressing off either.

Taking a bit extra off after every BF over a day should work out enough for a feed. Newborns have really small tummies so about 50mls or so would do for the first week or two.

My DH would do the night shift. I'd feed at about 10pm then go off to bed. He'd do the next feed (midnight-ish) and put bub to bed then I'd do the next one whatever time that came about.

I have the Avent isis pump and microwave steriliser and it is great. When I lost mine in a move () I had to get another one the same! I was also lent one for a while and they are up to lasting the distance!

[tenar]

We are doing this some of the time, and it's working great. Here's what I learned when I was researching it:

- between 4-6 weeks is the ideal time to introduce a bottle, because the baby has (theoretically) gotten good at breastfeeding by then (some won't have), but they are not yet so set in their ways that they won't take to a bottle. Note that it's really important that your baby be good at breastfeeding before you try a bottle. This is because the bottle is easier to get milk out of than the breast, and it requires a different jaw action to do it. So if you give the baby a bottle too often or too early, you risk them deciding that the breast is no good, and then you have a problem.

- you have to keep expressing to maintain your supply. I found I had to gradually build up the amount I could express at a time.

- you should choose the lowest flow teat you can find. This is because faster flow will be too much for a young baby anyway, and you want to make them work for their milk, to reduce the difference between the bottle and the breast.

We first gave DD a bottle of expressed milk at about 4 weeks, but only because she was (and is) a very good feeder. If we'd been having trouble with the breastfeeding I would have waited longer to try that. She took to the bottle easily. I've let DH give her all the bottle feeds, because we figure that will confuse her less than if I do it. Getting DH to give her a feed late at night was a lifesaver for me at first, but remember that most babies change their sleeping habits quite fast anyway. Now, at 8 weeks, DD Is sleeping for 5-6 hours overnight, and I am not so desperate for the sleep that I need DH to give her a bottle any more. So we are still doing it occasionally, when I have to go out, but not for the same reason.

I bought the Medela Swing Pump before DD arrived, and we are using Medela bottles. I find they work well, but I don't have any comparison with other brands, so can't comment. We have:

- one pump
- two bottles (one is 150ml, one is 250ml), but I've just ordered more bottles, because it seems that 150ml is a convenient size for me to pump into to store in the fridge).
- 3 small teats and one medium teat that we haven't used
- a box of special bags for storing braestmilk in the freezer, that won't leach nasty chemicals into it, and so forth. You can't reuse these, but since I don't plan to be freezing that much milk, I think they will last a long time, which is good because they are expensive.

Have to say, the breast pump is one of the more useful things I've bought. Great for relieving uncomfortable engorged breasts!

Hope that helps.

[Lulu]

Tenar - there has been thread in the past about those bags. Sometimes the 'proper' bags can be hard to find, and zip locs can be a good alternative.
Will ziplocs ooze icky chemicals?

[babywannabe]

hi, I too would wait till breast feeding is established b4 going onto the bottle. You do get use to getting up at night, it isn't so bad as long as you get some naps in during the day . After saying that i waited too long (5 months) and had a terrible time getting my DD to take the bottle. I used the Medela bottles which i think are BPA free as I had a Medela breast pump and the bottles twisted onto it. This was really convinient as i didn't have to transfer it to another bottle or freezer bag and popped it straight into the freezer or fridge. I would then warm the bottle, put a teat on it and it was ready to go. I would definately consider buying the pump and bottles in the same brand.
I tried to use some ziplock bags, but i thought they were a pain unless you had a surplus of EBM.
There is no need to sterilise if you are exclusively using EBM bc it naturally contains antibiotics to kill off nasty germs.
Hope that helps.

[Liz]

Great advice here re establishing the breastfeeding first.

Couple of things I wanted to add..

Avent bottles have BPA. Passes our safety standards, but as someone else pointed out, BPA is banned in other countries, so may be worth researching.

Was going to mention about not needing to sterilise if you're only using breastmilk, but that's been covered!

And also wanted to say it isn't a big deal if bub doesn't take to a bottle. Neither of mine ever did, never needed to.. I did all the feeds in those early months, and they can move onto a sippy cup quite early.. 6 mths-ish when they start solids. So there's really no need for a baby to accept a bottle.

I agree that you may find just sitting up in bed (or staying lying down!) for a quick 10min feed and then getting straight back to sleep is much easier on everyone (and your boobs!) than having to warm up a bottle (bub can wake up waaaay too much and be harder to settle. Babies settle so nicely on the breast and lovely sleepy hormones are produced for both mum & bub during the feeds so everyone remains fairly rested. I can vouch for that, as both my babies fed 3-4hrly (or more) around the clock for many many many months and I didn't suffer too much sleep deprivation with breastfeeding & co-sleeping.

We never did DH doing a feed for the reason Tenar mentioned.. that I would really need to get up and express that missed feed anyway.. so it's much easier to just feed and get back to that precious sleep

All the best with your plans and your bub. Just remember to do whatever works.. while something may sound like a good idea, your bub or your boobs might have other ideas!

[Curly]

This is actually the approach that Gina Ford advocates in her Contented Little Baby Book. If you want a step by step instruction manual for how to go about it, I suggest you have a look. Don't worry about the routine if that's not what you want to do...but her guidelines for expressing at certain times of the day in order to have the full expressed feed ready to go for evenings are good.

Mind you...I tried it and I found that my body simply did not respond to the pump. I had a great deal of difficulty expressing and so I have this virtually brand new electric pump in the cupboard collecting dust. I tried expressing again this time around with DD and same thing. I just can't express.

[MantaRay]

Liz, thanks for mentioning the "sleepy hormones" - I forgot about that one! Interestingly, studies have shown that parents of bf babies actually get more sleep than ff babies, even though bf babies often feed more often! The sleepy hormones which put both mum and bub straight back to sleep after (or during!!) a feed are probably a big part of this.

I also wanted to add that starting a baby on a bottle early is no guarantee they will continue to take one. DS1 drank from a bottle for his first week until his tongue-tie was snipped, and then once he could attach to the bresat he never drank from a bottle again! DS2 had a bottle of EBM once or twice a week in the beginning as I wanted him to be able to drink from one. But after a few weeks he decided never to take a bottle again. It was never a problem with either DS even though I also returned to work. They both drank from a sippy cup from about 3 months so I could still leave them for someone else to feed. Getting them used to a bottle is not necessary and is not a guarantee that they will continue to take it anyway.

I also feel that I must mention that Gina Ford's book is not recommended for bfing babies, as her routines do not recognise the frequency with which most babies need to feed to get enough milk and to establish and maintain mum's supply. Unfortunately many mums don't realise this until they have already lost their supply

[Liz]

Liz, thanks for mentioning the "sleepy hormones" - I forgot about that one! Interestingly, studies have shown that parents of bf babies actually get more sleep than ff babies, even though bf babies often feed more often! The sleepy hormones which put both mum and bub straight back to sleep after (or during!!) a feed are probably a big part of this.

The nurses were always happy to see me drifting off while feeding Kayla in the NICU, they knew we were having a good feed LOL.

[Curly]

Gina Ford's book is not recommended for bfing babies, as her routines do not recognise the frequency with which most babies need to feed to get enough milk and to establish and maintain mum's supply. Unfortunately many mums don't realise this until they have already lost their supply

The last thing I want to do is pick a fight but I bf'd DS for 20 months based on Gina Ford's routine. If the book is read in its entirety she emphasises that if a baby is hungry it must be fed regardless of the time. She also mentions the 6 week growth spurt and demand for extra breastmilk several times. I have learned never to mention my familiarity with Gina here on BB because it always gets shot down in flames but she does talk a lot about expressing, maintaining adequate supply and having the partner do a feed and goes into great detail about it and I think the OP could get some good how-to tips from there - whether she wants to "routine" her baby or not.

[mbear]

Most of us plan to have our partners do one feed, but often this doesn't work out as we hoped. I am not saying this to put you off, but just so you know up front, to save disappointment down the track.

.i tend to agree....

I have a 3 week old - its my 4th child - and can i tell you i have never felt so full of energy and non sleep deprived - honest. Reason: Harry is in bed with me. I feed him in bed (dh has been kicked out....temporarily of course...., it means im not getting out of bed in the cold - we can stay warm snuggled under the blankets.... (read up on SIDS if consdiering this option...). I have had so many comments 'wow, you look great" or 'you dont look like you have a newborn' - its because i am essentially resting whilst he is feeding. I wish i had of done it with my other children.

I also found the whole expressing thing a chore...i could never get the hang of it (and there is a knack to it.) and i found by the time i squeezed my 30mls out, i may have just as well fed the baby !!!! Thats just my input anyway.
'

Good luck with it all....

[Mumma2three]

I co-sleep, so DS is in bed with us most the night, but I've just started expressing this week. He is almost 4 months. I decided I needed to have some back up as I have appt's and things coming up. I would LOVE DH to do some feeds at night because Im finding as Ds gets bigger he's not feeding and falling asleep anymore, he's more distracted.
I use a hand pump and it's great. I've used it with all my three. I use the avent. I also dont have a steriliser, I just boil for a few minutes. Im finding I can pump out 80mls in about 10mins. I only express at 7am each day, one side, then offer DS the other side.
Good luck xo