(Advice) - A bit of help please...

[Danielle_NZ]

So I’ve decided to join up to ABA once my partner starts his new job… unfortunately that is still at least 3 weeks away and I am unable to afford to join until then. So I was hoping to gain some advice from you lovely ladies again.

I’ve downloaded an application on my iPhone so I can keep track of his nappies / feeds, including which side and for how long as my memory was / is real bad at the midwifes at the hospital kept a record and I couldn’t answer their questions about when, what and how… was rather upsetting that I couldn’t answer them and they wanted an answer and they wanted it now.

So below is how today has panned out so far… I know it’s early days but I did notice that he sometimes has a shorter feed and then wants it again an hour later, is this okay?

Also is the length of his feeds too short?

He seems to fall asleep in during his feeding and it’s not until his latch is interrupted or he stops suck suck swallow that I take him off – this that what I should be doing? He isn’t interested in reattaching afterwards until I go through of process of waking him up which sometimes doesn’t work.

His attachment is SO strong! To remove him I actually to get my finger in his mouth and between my nipple and his tongue for the suction to ease, I don’t remember it being this hard with the other boys. Is this to do with his tongue tie? Its not as hard when his attachment slips or he’s drunk on milk (love that look lol).

My milk seemed to come in early on day 4, today is day 6, yet I’m still not leaking??? My breasts get heavy, its hard to get Oliver to latch on when its been about 3 hours since he’s fed, this could be a combo of his tongue tie (looking into getting it snipped) and my breasts being firm (from milk). Breasts go through stages during the day of being tingling, sore, tender, heavy etc.


Start-End- Length of Feed (Side)* Time since last feed
1:25 - 1:53 am - 25 min (L:14 min | R:11 min) *3h 31m
2:23 - 2:29 am - 6 min (Right) *41m
6:23 - 6:41 am - 18 min (Left) *4h
7:23 - 7:32 am - 9 min (Right) *1h
10:38 - 10:48 am - 10 min (Right) *3h 15m
1:46 - 1:55 pm - 9 min (Right) *3h 8m
2:48 - 3:00 pm - 12 min (Left) *1h 2m
4:36 - 4:44 pm - 8 min (Right) *1h 48m

[starangelk]

Congrats on your newest little man

I am by no means an expert but at the same age my DD was feeding for much longer than that. I was feeding for up to an hour (or even longer) at times yet she would still feed every couple of hours at times too. Not sure there is an exact science about it, I guess that's the whole demand thing. DD was the same suction wise too

[OceanPrincess]

Hey hun just a quick post as I'm about to put DS down - you can still call the ABA, even if you're not a member!

1800 mum 2 mum - give then a ring if you are worried.

[*Efjay*]

My brain isn't working that great at the moment. Prelabor & all....

When my first was born he would be done & dusted with his feeds in 10 mins. Only wanted 1 side at a time & would spit it all back up again if I forced more. I felt like **** because Iw as told 20 min each side etc. Then finally someone said, if he is content with 10 min then leave him.

I would just do what he seems to want. express for comfort if you need to. Watch his output with wees & feed at least every 3 hours.

Some thing you could try if you feel he needs it is to let him feed & try & keep him stimulated, unwrap him, tickle his toes, cold face washer on feet etc. if he settles in for a sleep leave him be, over tired babies wont feed any better. But if he has just woke you could feed him, then burp him (no need to actually get that burp, just sit him up, stimulate him a bit & put him back on the breast.

But yeah keep an eye on his output with wee & poo & if its good. then don't stress too much about the length of his feed. Some babies just get good at draining the breast.

Anyone please feel free to come in & say ignore that its all wrong. As I said my brain isn't working well at the moment. Hopfully I will be on the NB feeding train in the next day or so.

[Snacks]

Sounds great!

I’ve downloaded an application on my iPhone so I can keep track of his nappies / feeds

This is what I'd be keeping an eye on more than anything else. If he's getting a good amount of feeds in and a good amount of wet & pooey nappies then you're going great guns!

he sometimes has a shorter feed and then wants it again an hour later

Totally normal to want a top-up.

Also is the length of his feeds too short?

The nappies are going to be your answer here. Usually you'd expect a little bub to feed for longer periods I guess, but if he seems to be attaching efficiently and weeing & pooing plenty then it's probably fine. He's only got a little tummy after all, and if he's getting a gut-full quickly and isn't interested in "comfort sucking" then it seems fine. If he is waking up himself for the feeds then I wouldn't be too stressed about his falling asleep during them, personally.

He isn’t interested in reattaching afterwards until I go through of process of waking him up which sometimes doesn’t work.

I found that a nappy change half-way through a feed worked well for us, even overnight in the early days. We'd feed til they were close to asleep then change nappy so's they were awake then feed again.

His attachment is SO strong!

Great, as long as he's got plenty of your nipple in his mouth! As long as he's on properly the strength of it isn't a bad thing, I'd've thought. Maybe that's why he's so fast? Wouldn't have thought it'd be to do with the tongue tie but I don't have personal experience with that one. I have heard it's harder to attach well with tongue tie but nothing about how hard they suck.

yet I’m still not leaking???

Maybe you won't. Maybe you will be a lucky one who doesn't experience that awful engorged feeling. You've still got plenty of milk there.

ts hard to get Oliver to latch on when its been about 3 hours since he’s fed

Have you tried expressing off a little bit first so you're not so 'firm'? As mentioned, I believe it can be harder to attach with tongue tie but I'm sorry I have no wisdom to offer you here.

Hey, you sound like you are going great! The best indicator is going to be the nappies and the amount of feeds you get into a 24 hour period. The iPhone app sounds cool Hopefully that means it'll put your mind at ease (not stress you out, KWIM?) so that you can sit back and enjoy your little fella.
Congrats!

[MantaRay]

Hun, as the others have said, you can call the helpline or submit an email to the ABA without being a member. You can even go to meetings! It is great you want to join, I am sure you will find it the best money you've ever spent, but don't feel like you have to wait until you've joined to use the services.

TBH, I would focus less on the numbers. As a new mum I started the same way, trying to measure everything. All it did was stress me out too much - I also had a quick feeder who never fed for longer than 5 minutes but also put on 400g a week (which is huge!!). I had no need to worry but I did because the books said he needed to feed for at least 20 minutes. I learnt over time to forget the numbers and watch the baby rather than the clock. If you are changing nappies throughout the day, especially if there are dirty ones in there, then baby is getting enough. If baby is settled at least some of the time, this is another good sign. A hungry baby will either cry all the time or be too tired and sleep without waking up for feeds. If that is not happening then it most likely means that everything is good. A mum's instinct is really strong - if it feels right, it probably is. If you can, forget the app you've downloaded and follow your instincts and your baby's cues. Hopefully that will help you to relax more and enjoy these precious early days

[~ Mylitta ~]

I'm a pretty firm believer that baby knows best If your little boy is happy, healthy and putting on weight, then you are doing a great job!

My first baby, my son, would feed for probably 45 minutes on average, with about 2-3 hours in between feeds, day and night. He would cluster feed in the afternoon though and have feeds probably hourly.

My daughter is much different though. The gaps between her feeds can be anywhere from 1-4 hours during the day, and many of her feeds only last 10-15 minutes. I have pretty strong let-down and a large milk supply (I'm still feeding my toddler too) so I don't think she has to work very hard and fills her tummy pretty quickly. She also cluster feeds in the afternoon like her brother did.

My son was born with a mild tongue tie and it has never caused him any problems with latching or feeding, so was never snipped. My husbands two older sons (my stepsons) were both born with tongue ties, and the eldest had major feeding problems before it was found and finally snipped. The younger one had it snipped straight after birth. If you're worried about your son's feeding then definitely have the tongue tie looked at. A good lactation consultant (and possible even your health nurse) should be able to watch your baby latch and feed and let you know if he's having trouble.

Just remember that like adults, babies sometimes don't want a full meal, they just want a snack Try not to compare your babies feeding habits with your other children because all babies are different. You are doing a wonderful job and I hope you are enjoying your lovely little family ♥

[onthefly]

Sounds good Danielle.
Try not to overthink it - it's a really simple system that works well most of the time if you just follow your baby's lead.

[MantaRay]

I forgot to say about the tongue tie that DS1 had one and I'm really glad we had it snipped. It made a huge difference although his was stopping him attaching at all. Also tongue-tie can contribute to speech issues and tooth decay down the track so there are other reasons to do it.

Hun, if you are finding that attaching is harder after 3 hours, you could try offering the breast sooner, before you feel so full. Feeding at the first hunger cues (sucking fist, bobbing head etc) can be much easier than waiting until he is so hungry that he is crying. Or if he is sleeping for that long and not waking distressed, you could express for comfort before feeding him and that might help. If you are so full that the nipple is lost in the hard breast, softening the area around the nipple with your fingers (use your 2nd and 3rd fingers on each hand and press in firmly for a couple of minutes, one hand on either side of your nipple, then move them around to be above and below your nipple for another couple of minutes). Feeding at the first hunger cues (sucking fist, bobbing head etc) can be much easier than waiting until he is so hungry that he is crying.

[Danielle_NZ]

Thanks ladies, you've been extremely helpful, he doesn't seem to wake for up to half of his feeds and the ones he does are the ones shorter than 3 hours between feeds. He's just woken now after 3.5 hours, wasn't distressed just with hiccups and a few moans followed by hunger cues.

He's averaging about 10 feeds a day and just about as many dirty nappies. Do I need to pay more attention to wet nappies or are dirty ones just as good?

[~ Mylitta ~]

I'll admit that I've never really counted wet or dirty nappies with either of my babies. Breastfed babies can go over a week without pooping so I don't stress about that one (although I do worry about the poo explosion that I know is coming, hehe).

You'd notice if the nappies weren't wet when you changed your son just from the fact that the nappies would still be really light and flat, not a little heavier and sort of rounded from the wetness.

Ten feeds a day sounds pretty normal. I think both my babies have fed 12-15 times a day when really young, but that includes evening cluster feeding. My son actually kept up 10-12 feeds a day until I fell pregnant with my daughter and my milk supply dropped.

Is your son gaining a good amount of weight?

[Danielle_NZ]

He's past his birth weight already which I took as a good sign, and I'm guessing the wet nappies are plentiful just hidden, this last one was extremely wet (strange when you mention something to someone then it randomly happens soon after)

He didn't seem to want to attach to my left breast this last feed, so I had to attach him to the right, just about to take care of my left once the sterilizer is finished with the pump as I don't seem to have the hand expressing sorted (my friend you tube should help me out on that one so research is required if I get time this afternoon).

[mummajj]

i had very full breasts aswell if it had been a couple of hours (especially in one) the LC advised me to hand express just a little bit (30mls or so) so that my boob was a lot softer, therefore easier for bub to attach.
other than that, it sounds like you're doing a great job!!
dont worry about how many poos ur getting, lotsa wet nappies is great! bf babies can go 10 days or more without pooing!!

[onthefly]

At this age it's dirty, rather than wet nappies that are a good indicator (wee is hidden in poo). You'll see more wet ones as he gets older and poos less often.
Sounds like he's doing really, really well! Congrats on your hard work paying off

[Danielle_NZ]

My left nipple is extremely sore (even to touch by accident) I can only put it down to grazing as I can't see the cause. Is it best to feed through the pain (extreme owwie) or give it a rest and just express off when needed

[onthefly]

The best thing is to figure out what the propblem is and fix it. Do you have access to an LC who can check it out for you?
If you keep feedign without fixing it, it'll just get to the point where you can't feed any more. even pumping can still hurt too..
Does the nipple come out the same shape? Have you tried different holds on that side? Is this the same side you had issues with before? does it hurt all through the feed or just at the start?

[MantaRay]

Hun, it sounds like your little one is getting enough so that's a great sign. In case you haven't got around to it yet, here are some great links to hand expressing clips:

Hand Expression
Hand Expression - Learn the Hand Expression Breast Milk Method Video

Also, it might help you to know that you don't have to sterilise pump equipment and bottles when you use them with breastmilk. Only for formula as it has bacteria in it, whereas breastmilk has anti-bacterial properties.

dont worry about how many poos ur getting, lotsa wet nappies is great! bf babies can go 10 days or more without pooing!!

Actually, this is not true in a baby under 8 weeks. Most babies at this age have 2 or more dirty nappies a day, and a day without poo can be a sign of insufficient milk, bowel obstruction or other problem. It doesn't mean there is a problem, but it needs further investigation.

Hun, it is no good that there is pain in your left nipple. Can you see any broken skin? It is important to keep feeding from that side, but perhaps attach to the other side first so that the most vigorous sucking is not on the sore side. Have you tried the laid back positions at all - they might be more comfortable for you. In case you want them, here are some links:

Biological Nurturing sample scenario
Baby Led Mother Guided Started Upright Left Breast, Latches

Is there pain after the feed, or only during the feed? Hopefully it won't be anything major and will settle down quickly for you, but it might be something that needs further attention. If changing position doesn't help, a LC is a good idea to check out attachment. Also, if the pain is persisting after a feed, it could be an infection so a visit to the GP for meds could help. Thrush ointments can kill some bacterias also so might be a handy thing to try before going to the GP if you can bear the pain in the meantime. Also, can you see a white spot on your nipple at all?

Oh, and I forgot to mention before, not leaking is not a problem - some mums leak some don't, and often mums find they leak less and less with each baby (and sometimes don't leak at all after the first baby). It is not a sign of supply issues!

[Danielle_NZ]

the leaking started less than an hour after I posted lol

I don't have a white dot, but I do believe I have a red blood blister on my left... its constantly sore but more so after a feed, a real sting... i'm starting to think hes not opening his mouth wide enough in his latch which is causing my nipples to graze against the roof of his mouth... the pictures of latching babies seem much wider. Got an appointment with the doctor to remove my stitches on thursday so will ask lots then including his tongue tie.