Co-sleeping an/or manipulative baby resulting in too many night feeds?

[LuluHB]

Miss A had her 4 month check with the CHN on Tuesday, who suggested that the many, many maaaaaany night feeds that Miss A is having are quite likely because she is either in her hammock next to my side of the bed, or in bed next to me, and can smell my milk and is therefore either (A) not hungry but the smell is triggering a need in her for a cuddle or (B) the smell lets her know I'm there and so she is "manipulating" me to get attention. She basically told me that if I have any hope of getting her to sleep longer and feed less then she needs to sleep alone in her own room

I'm tending to think that this is complete rubbish, given the same CHN also told me that I should be seriously considering putting her on solids now, but thought I'd just put it out there in case there is any truth to it (the co-sleeping bit, not the manipulation bit). I'm not ready to shovel her off to her own room yet, but if just moving the hammock from my side of the bed to the other side of the room will give me more than 2.5 hours of very, very broken sleep each night I'll seriously consider it.

Thanks.

[LimeSlice]

I'm tending to think that this is complete rubbish

Yep... she is 4 months old. Run with that thought!

At 20 months I am beginning to become a bit more strict with the night feeds and continuous latch over night with DD2. She sleeps in her own cot when she first goes down, wakes every 2-4 hours, is fed back to sleep, and then comes to bed once I go to bed. At 4 months, there is so much going on that can cause frequent feeding at night, or day. You can try feeding her more often or trying to get her to cluster before bedtime, but you will most likely find she sorts it out herself within the next few months.

[onthefly]

Go with that first thought.... Moving her would probably just mean you have to go to more effort to resettle her.

[Lenny]

I'm pretty sure that under 6 months is a bit young to be manipulating you. But if you are unsure, maybe try moving the hammock? I mean, you don't have to move it far.
I'm sorry you are having a rough time with sleeping xx I hope things improve on their own accord for you soon.

[BellyBelly]

We're mostly co-sleeping but also use the hammock. At 2 months old, DD is the opposite. Sleeps well at night and wants to feed alot during the day when she's quite unsettled and sleeps alot less. At night sometimes she'll stir and i'll offer the breast and she refuses, usually has wind then goes back to sleep. So your MHN's theory isnt true there.

Its been great getting decent night sleeps but I know it could change at any time as bubbas do as they grow, go through wonder weeks etc. Ive got the unusual problem of finding it hard to get anything done or get out during the day because she is so wakeful and unsettled - car and pram only work for a short time and its all over, one set of lungs Wonder what your MHN would say about that one lol, wake her up at night for a play?

[BellyBelly]

Forgot to add: Pretty sure 4-5 months is pretty significant developmental stage. My son changed sleeping habits about then too - and it was around the time I ended up in a mother & baby unit with my daughter.

[Netix]

Manipulating you? Wow, these babies are getting evil! Lol. And if you're being manipulated, then so am I. I feed Mack to sleep (all the time), and in the evenings, when he is asleep, put him 'to bed' in his rocker (he WILL not sleep in his bassinet). Leave it in the lounge with us until we go to bed, carry rocker into our room. Then when he wakes up after however long, he's straight into bed with us, and. Feed him in bed. I get terrible sleep, but I think it would be the same if I got up and fed him then put him back in the rocker for another few hours or so. A Doctor I took him to when he had his chest infection (maybe two months old? I forget), asked if he sleeps with me in bed, or at least in the same room, and he said that was a very good thing "not like these other babies who are put away in a seperate room and the door shut". Don't you just love old-school Drs?

[inlove]

Total crap!!!!!!! Don't pay any attention to what she has said. As the mum of a now 5 year old who has spent most of her life sleeping with an adult I can safely say that babies are unable to manipulate!!
DD 5 now sleeps completely independently, at your child's age she was sleeping every single night in my arms and feeding frequently. At no stage has she been left to cry or had any sleep training.

It is completely impossible for a baby to do anything other than communicate a need.
How sad that a trained professional does not recognise this.

[Liviam]

Definitely run with your idea that it is a load of rubbish - how can a 4 month old manipulate you?? Miss A is sounding very very much like Master H. I tried to stop co-sleeping but he was still in our room. All it achieved was me getting cold feet getting out of bed to grab H and feed him in bed and ended up co-sleeping most of the night anyways.

Is it working for you this way hun or are you getting exhausted and need it to stop?

[LuluHB]

Manipulating you? Wow, these babies are getting evil! Lol.

I think she needs to work on her maniacal laugh though ;-) Seriously though, such a dangerous thing to say to a mum. I just ignored her, but I can imagine a first time mum would have perhaps taken her more seriously

Its a bit of both Liviam. Generally I can live with it because I know it will pass sooner or later, but I'm sick again and last night Miss A fed 8 times between 9pm and 7am so to say I'm tired and over it would be an understatement and its starting to affect my mental health. I need to either shake the flu, or get Miss A to drop a feed or six over night. R suggested this morning that we try her on formula and nearly lost his head the poor bugger.

[*Efjay*]

Far out! These CHN are a piece of work! She can smell your milk & that is triggering a need for a cuddle.... Hmmmm Well if she Needs a cuddle, give her a cuddle. Even if that was true, so the F what, who are we to deprive someone of a cuddle when they need it!

[~TT40~]

My MACH nurse said the same thing. I'm so over just nodding and smiling at these people...

she also said that i should be starting her on solids and it will 'help her get over it and sleep through'. ahh.. no thanks, we aren't quite ready yet. Spock was originally in the bassinet right next to me, I did move her closer to my feet (mainly to help me cause i was waking to her every little wimper and thought this would help me only wake for a serious call. didn't make a difference to her feeding. now she is in the cot right next to me, and half way through the night i drag her (literly whilst i'm half asleep =P) closer to me, and once again, doesnt make a difference to her feeding. just makes her easier to settle by me snuggling her or kissing her or softly singing a song to her.
one thing i have done recently, is she is taking both breasts before she goes to bed. this is the first time she ever takes both. all other feeds she is happy with just one side (and by her weight gains and all that jazz doing perfectly fine on one). but this wasn't an intentional thing, it was more a hmmm now i think about it she has been having both sides before bed. she still wakes in the middle of the night for a feed though.

[Heaven]

Give yourself a pat on the back! You are obviously raising a genius who has worked out the art of manipulation already! Awesomeness!

Hang in there, it will improve soon xx

[Sagres]

I think the manipulation line is a bit of a stretch, but I can kind of see some logic to trying to move her further away to see how it goes. I mean if you try it and it helps - win, and if it doesn't work just stop and go back to what you were doing before, no harm done.

When DD1 was a couple months older than your DD and waking up LOTS at night my GP suggested trying moving her out because as they get older they get more aware of what's going on around them and are more likely to get woken up by you moving around, going to bed, rolling over, snoring etc. Then even if they aren't really hungry they are awake and just think while I'm up I might as well have some milk, or if their sleep cue if BFing then they may just be looking to BF for sleep not for the milk.

Anyway we moved DD1 and I would say it halved the wake ups. She did still wake up for milk and also from discomfort related to getting her first tooth, but there were less 'incidental' wake ups that lead to a BF even if that was not really why she woke in the first place ITMS. But as I said, give it a burl, if it doesn't help just stop.

[Phteven]

The manipulation is a pile of tosh but it couldn't hurt to try moving the hammock. Maybe to beside your Dh so he can give it a jiggle when she starts up with the manipulation.
I will always picture you baby holding up her little finger a la Dr Evil now.

[Butterfly Dawn]

manipulating?! yeah cause a baby can think about these things in depth.
the smelling the milk, is a common theory and I can see how it works but not 100% sold.
you could try moving the hammock alittle further away each night, that way it won't upset baby, suddenly cent smell mummy.

why do we keep being told to put baby in their own room? haven't heard a solid real reason yet. its not natural in my book to have young babys far away. kids move into their own room when they want to (and sometimes a nudge here and there helps) but a baby?
nah, trust ur instincts hun ur going a great job

[Taurean]

I think the manipulation line is a bit of a stretch, but I can kind of see some logic to trying to move her further away to see how it goes. I mean if you try it and it helps - win, and if it doesn't work just stop and go back to what you were doing before, no harm done.

When DD1 was a couple months older than your DD and waking up LOTS at night my GP suggested trying moving her out because as they get older they get more aware of what's going on around them and are more likely to get woken up by you moving around, going to bed, rolling over, snoring etc. Then even if they aren't really hungry they are awake and just think while I'm up I might as well have some milk, or if their sleep cue if BFing then they may just be looking to BF for sleep not for the milk.

Anyway we moved DD1 and I would say it halved the wake ups. She did still wake up for milk and also from discomfort related to getting her first tooth, but there were less 'incidental' wake ups that lead to a BF even if that was not really why she woke in the first place ITMS. But as I said, give it a burl, if it doesn't help just stop.

^ This
We had almost the same situation. DD2 was in her bassinet on my side of the bed until around 8.5 months. She slept so well until about 5.5 months when the hellish nights started I was up to her SO much over night and, like you, was only getting a few hours broken sleep at night on a regular basis. Wonder Weeks and cutting teeth certainly didn't help!

Anyway, I tried everything I could think of with no real success. I just couldn't work it out, especially as she had slept so well on our holiday at 7 months. So I spoke to my CHN at DD2's 8 month checkup (she was a great CHN for a change!) and she suggested trying her in her own room as a last resort. She didn't agree with CC or CIO and said it may be an inconvenience for me for a week or so but she thought it could definitely help. She thought DD2 and I were probably a little too in-tune with each other and waking each other (prempting feeds, hearing each others noises, etc). Well I think she was right cause DD2's sleep improved dramatically and, of course, so did mine I have got a sound and movement monitor though so that made the transition easier for me too.

I know my DD is older than Miss A but I had to share. Maybe just moving her elsewhere in your room might help. DD1 slept in our WIR, our ensuite and just outside our bedroom door before I moved her to her own room. She happily went to her own room around 10 weeks though and was a freak when it came to sleeping. I sometimes wonder if moving DD2 to her own room earlier would have helped at all

Good luck with your decision and getting more sleep. I don't recall DD1 having night sleep issues like DD2 did but from what I read online, it's quite common from the 4-5 month stage. The big WW at 19-20 weeks is often the starting point.

[LuluHB]

thanks lovelies.

You might be on to something with the in tuneness thing Taurean. I usuallu have no recollection of Miss A actually waking me - more that I've just stirred too and am ready for her to wake. We have a huge bedroom so I might try moving the hammock further away and see what happens. DH got up with her and tried to settle her last night and she just screamed her head off. Then when I took her from him and she caught sight of a boob I swear she smirked !!