lactose overload??

[PinkPalace]

i have been reading about lactose ovreload and wondering if any one elses baby has experienced this?

DD exhibits all the symptoms (explosive watery stools - 6ish times a day, excessive gas and wind, screaming after feeds, bloating, grimacing etc) and i do too (in my oversupply issues).

Did expressing first to reduce the foremilk and 3hrly feed periods on he same breast help?

Any other hints?

I know she isnt intolerant of lactose as her weight gain has be approx 300gm/week and her stools are not greeny. So perhaps this is the answer?

Luckily from what i have read this intolerance reduces after 3- 5 months as the gut matures (yay)....

[BellyBelly]

Your Baby & Lactose

[Phoenix]

I haven't heard this described as a lactose overload. I know it is often caused by oversupply and or fast flow of milk and is usually diagnosed as colic. Expressing first and then allowing bub to feed off the one breast until finished may help on its own or you may need to also extend feeds. Sometimes posture feeding helps (like feeding bub while you lie on your back). And yep I have heard it usually settles around 3-5mths but perhaps ring an ABA counsellor and discuss it as they have some really good suggestions for this sort of thing. You don't want to put up with it for another couple of mths if it can be helped.

[peekay]

Hi there

I'm just bumping this up to see if you had any success with your little one- although it was a while ago now!

I'm suspecting that my DS (who is 4 weeks old) may have this too- not too sure though.

Can lactose overload be definitively diagnosed by a paed? Or is it (like so much else!) a guessing game?

[~clover~]

My DS had the green watery poo & I wasn't sure what to think, but I'm pretty sure now it was due to over supply & fast let down.
It settled down at around 3 months. I still think my let down is quite strong/fast as it feels like it to me, but he seems fine now.

[peekay]

Hmm... his poo isn't green- definitely yellow but very very runny and only comes out with an explosion. There's no way I wouldn't know he's done a poo!

He also has bad wind pains that often wake him from sleep- it's heartbreaking. He grunts and groans all the time, goes red in the face from what seems like trying to push, he stretches his body out and goes rigid sometimes, while other times pulls his knees up. It bothers me most when the grunts and groans turn into a high pitched cry/squeal .

He has lots of wet nappies a day- but I generally only change it when feeding, which is only approx 8 times a day. Sometimes though the nappies are totally saturated- the entire nappy not just the front part and his clothes/wrap gets wet too.

My 6 week paed appt is next week so I'm going to ask him about it then. My CHN said it was normal baby behaviour, but I'm not convinced- yet!

[~clover~]

DS's poos were the same. Every time he farted he pooed.
It's always been watery too. I asked the gp about it, but he said as long as he had plenty of wet nappies it was fine.

I think 8 wet nappies a 24 hour period is the minimum they look for in a sick bub. If its less than that its not really enough, but that really means only 8 wee's. If your little man's nappies are that wet, then there's definetely more than 1 wee in each nappy.

The wind problems could be colic. It usually happens later in the afternoon/evening though, but not all the time.
You could try some Infacol C, Bauers Colic relief or Infants Friend & see if it relieves the wind pain.

I also used to lay down with bubs on his/her belly on my chest, or belly down along my arm to help relieve wind.
You can also look up how to massage to relieve wind pain.
Or lay him down & move his legs like he's riding a bike can help.

Hope that helps. Give them a go & see what happens.

[christy]

Look, after years of research... when I hear what you are describing I instantly think its a food intolerance issue. Maybe lactose, maybe milk protein, maybe soy, maybe wheat.... something that has built up and is upsetting your bubs.

Medical practitioners love to treat the symptoms, so you may get some antiacids for bubs or something to treat the symptoms of wind/reflux. It may be all you need and may work wonders. Other children have worse issues and meds don't necessarily help, but by the time they find something, they have grown out of their intolerances.

My DD1 seemed to grow out of that newborn explosion zone, but 3 years later was diagnosed with a severe milk allergy. Who knows, if I had let off the milk when she was a baby, she wouldn't have had such issues. DD2 showed signs and I went off milk and she is now at 21 months starting to tolerate it! So she won't have the allergy her sister has.

I saw 4 different paediatricians over the years, my DD's have been diagnosed with silent reflux, severe reflux, colic, "difficult baby" and "challenging toddler". I saw a chiropractor for them both with limited relief, I have used chinese medicine to great benefit. I finally found an allergy specialist and we are off all medications, some suppliments and a dairy free lifestyle.

[peekay]

Thanks for your responses

I've tried all the leg movements, tummy rubbing, different positions etc. We will always get a burp or bottom burp but there always seems to be more- even if we've done it for an hour. It just seems impossible to get it all out and it seems he certainly can't get it all out himself just yet.

Food intolerance? How would I know- do I just start with eliminating one type of food at a time? I eat all those foods you mentioned!

I forgot to say in my last post that feeding is being constantly interrupted by the grunting and groaning. So much so that I don't know if he has stopped feeding because of the discomfort or because he's had enough. We never get the drunk look anymore and he only occasionally falls alseep at the breast during a night feed. Also I can feel his tummy grumbling as he's feeding under my hand- it's horrible.

We have a chiropractor's appointment tomorrow and I'm really hoping she can help. Today has been a difficult day for us with the fussiness and feeding- and I've got mastitis to boot. DS pulling and stretching my nipples doesn't help me feel better at all!

I hope when everyone says it gets easier- they mean it and that time comes very soon!

[LuluHB]

I'm heading into hospital tomorrow with DD#2 for lactose issues - not lactose overload - and my baby does everything you describe yours as doing. Sorry to say something negative, but not all babies do grow out of it at 3 months. Mine hasn't - if anything, she's getting worse. DD#1 also had the same issues. DD#1 went onto soy formula and that took care of all her problems. DD#2 is going to be tried with a lactose free formula first, and we will then try the soy. I have eliminated all dairy from my diet and it didn't significantly help either of my daughters. I'm seeing a paediatric allergist with DD#2 and have to agree with Christy that they are absolutely the better way to go. With DD#1 the immediate diagnosis by GPs, CHNs and "normal" paeds was colic, followed by reflux, followed by suggestions of sleep schools!

If you don't think your baby has colic/wind etc, please find yourself a paed who will listen to what you say, and not dismiss it with what seems the standard "but they'll grow out of it soon" line.

[Barb Glare]

Hi,

Dealing with a colicky, unsettled baby can be like throwing a 1000 piece jigsaw all over the kitchen table and then trying to put it together - without ever having seen the picture.
Firstly, is it normal baby behaviour or not? Normal baby behaviour is completely misunderstood in our culture. It is normal for babies to need to feed frequently - to be with their mum - carried much of the time. Babies normally poo frequently in the early days, and their poo is runny and yellowy/mustardy. There can be a fair bit of variation in "normal" poo.
Could it be the result of a trumatic birth? With the high level of intervention at birth - instrumental birth, drugs, caesareans, babies can suffer ongoing problems. A skilled an expert chiropractor or osteopath can be helpful here.
Is you baby getting enough milk? Growing well? Is he feeding comfortably, in a comfortable position? An LC or breastfeeding counellor can help.
Food allergies and intolerances are a often an unknown area. Often, your family history will give you a hint. Are there any allergies or intolerances in either side of the family? Eczema? Asthma? This will give you a clue as to where to start in this respect. Human babies are rarely intolerant to lactose, though illnesses and infections, early introduction of cows milk (ie formula) or antibiotics early on can damage the gut and make it sensitive. (secondary lactose intolerance)
Is baby getting enough sleep? We generally overestimate the amount babies sleep (as they say, the only ones that talk about "sleeping like baby" probably never had one.)
Often there is more than one factor at play - if it was simple we'd be on top of it. It is often complex, even for health professionals.
Good luck - many of us have trodden the same road and our ways of helping our children are often as varied as we are. The support and information of other mothers is vital in our journey. One word, these problems should be able to be saved whilst supporting breastfeeding. It's important to us and our babies
Regards
Barb

[LuluHB]

I mean absolutely no disrespect to Barb here, but breastfeeding is not always possible. When DD#1 went onto formula initially I expressed to maintain my supply. I then reintroduced breast milk to my daughter after she had been on formula alone for a few days and within hours she was back to being a rigid, pained, screaming baby. Everybody I consulted with DD#1 pushed breastfeeding and it only prolonged my daughter's pain. Formula was the answer for DD#1, and hopefully will be again for DD#2 (I say this because I have run out of other options, not because I am searching for a way to stop breastfeeding)

I am a huge advocate of breastfeeding, but not when it comes at the cost of a child's health and a mother's sanity.

[peekay]

Thanks Barb and Lulu

I really am just taking breastfeeding one day at a time. One moment I think we are getting on top of it all and then the next I'm in tears ready to give it in . I'm pretty stubborn though- so I hope that holds out!

I saw the CHN today and she saw us feeding and saw how obviously uncomfortable my DS is during a feed (constant wriggling, groaning, pulling off the breast etc) and she said it might be a bit of reflux. So we are going to see if that's the issue.

Funny thing is, DS was a perfect baby while there! Hardly exhibited any of the behaviours I'd just been telling her about (eg bad wind pains after a feed), which is great because he was happy but funny at the same time!

Plus he's put on just over 600g in 2 weeks so she told me not to stress too much about the feeding and to not stress too much if he doesn't seem interested in feeding after only a short time. She said I might be trying to feed him more than he wants and that's why he gets cranky etc.

She also mentioned he might be a 'sandwich feeder'- anyone heard of that? She said he might like to feed for a short time, have a play and then feed for a short time again before going to sleep (rather than feed, play, sleep). I didn't know that was OK to do- does anyone have any advice on this?

[LuluHB]

DD#2 often feeds 2 hourly so yep, I guess she would be a sandwich feeder - although I've never heard that expression before. Because she can feed so often I've not been sure when her feeding is for comfort, and when its becauser sh'es hungry. Because she has so many horrid poos she's getting reduced nutrition from feeds (it passes through her too quickly), so that's why she needs more feeds than "normal" (I hate that word). I ended up that if she was really upset but had been feed within the last two hours I would try to comfort her first. If nothing else worked, I ended up feeding her. The upside is she can sometimes be comforted by a feed, even though I know that she'll pay the price for it with a sore tummy. The downside is that if this feeding regime stretches into your nights you suffer hugely with sleep deprivation.

ETA: If you can avoid bottle feeding, then that would be brilliant - please don't think I'm pushing you to formula feed. Other than the fact that you would lose all the benefits of breastfeeding - both physical and mental for you and your son - bottle feeding is a serious PITA. It takes so much time away from what you could otherwise be spending with your baby.

[Serendypyty]

Peekay - My bubba displays similar problems. She squirms around when she's on the boob and doesn't finish her feed. I'll wait until she gets a poo and then usually by then she has thrown up her feed from pushing so hard. So then I'll have to feed her again.

Her sleep is regularly disrupted by wind pains. She seems to catnap a lot now, where she used to be a good sleeper.

At least twice a day she will get so bad that she will scream for a couple of hours, and nothing will be able to console her. I just lie down with her on my stomach and pat her to sleep as best I can. But then I have to keep patting because if I stop she'll wake up again and start crying!!

We used Infants Friend for a while but now we find that it doesn't really make a difference in terms of her level of discomfort. I have also tried a couple of other colic formulas..

We always burp her as well and she's a champion farter just like her dad...

I don't want to leap to putting her on medications or anything, but I'm just hoping that she'll grow out of it soon

So yeah, you're not alone!!

[Smoke Jaguar]

Me, too with oversupply and related issues!
We took to posture feeding, as well as constant sling wearing - keeping him upright, especially after feeds and to get him to sleep, was critical and is probably why the situation didn't escalate in terms of my sanity.
I definitely found the co-sleeping, sling-wearing, demand-feeding, posture-feeding and some foremilk expressing helped alleviate a gut full of my milk from one boob!n It meant that whilst he was very gassy and burpy (and a little chucky when burping), he was not a very 'cry-y' baby. Sometimes he'd cry from it, but it was quickly settled by being thrown into the HAB It took well over 4 months for my supply to settle, and even now it doesn't take much for it to be thrown out of whack again (thinking of DS's present cold and frequent feeding...I'll go back to hard boobs again when he gets better and feeds less...check ticker for his age!)

[Barb Glare]

Hi, Peekay,

Feed, play, sleep isn't "the thing babies do" It's a some-what strange western construct of what adults, particularly health professionals want them to do. Most research shows that babies are happiest when babies sleep, feed and play the way they want to feed, sleep and play (well what really IS play for a young baby - hanging out in mums arms or on mums boob, gazing lovingly at her face, pretty much) There's no right and wrong, in particular when it comes to feeding babies.
Regards
Barb

[Smoke Jaguar]

Feed-sleep-play, blurgh! I hate that phrase! We fed, snuggled, fed, snuggled, fed, snuggled - and a lot of the snuggling involved sleep, because snuggling was HAB related! So DS could sleep and I could still do stuff round here