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Good luck with your decision making Keira. I also elected a CS for no 1 and will be doing so for no 2...(for many reasons). I did research all options, and took a very long time to make my final decision. With discussion with your OB about your concerns etc, I'm sure you will find that they will help in any way they can, in supporting your needs etc. Only you can decide what is right for you in the end.
Good luck xx
Thanks for everyone's support and opinions! I know i'll make the right decision for me and bubba in the end!
I will let everyone know what i intend to do after discussing it with an OB/Midwife...
Thanks again ladies xox
Good luck Keira. I'm sure you will make the right decision for you.
Wishing you a happy and healthy pregnancy. Take care :hug:
Thankyou Lynn ;)
I wish you all the luck in the world with ttc, i know you will have your miracle very soon as well
Look after yourself xox
Hello everyone,
It's quite true to say that there aren't any upsides to a c/s. They can be necessary and life saving in a small minority of cases but they have no benefit for mother and no benefit to baby apart from keeping you both alive of course. Lots of the natural processes get bypassed when labour and birth isn't complete and unless absolutely necessary it's pretty important to give your baby the best start possible.
You and your baby are 4 times more likely to die following a c/s than a natural birth, this is if it's your first c/s or subsequent ones. There are many complications that can arise from c/s. They can cause permanent damage to bladder and bowel, they can cut your baby and they can sew you up and have to re open you because they have missed a bleeding vessel ( this happened recently in South Australia). Also it doesn't protect you in later life because following menopause you are every bit as likely to get incontinence as a woman who has birthed many babies through her vagina and a nun.
If fear or control is your reason for thinking about planning a caesarean then arm yourself with knowledge, books like : Thinking woman's guide to a better birth, Henci Goer, the silent Knife Marsden Wagner, birth your way Sheila Kitzinger, New active birth Janet Balaskas and there are many many others.
There are many women out there who regret their c/s either because they had no choice or made an uninformed choice. There are however no woman that regret their decision to empower themselves to a great woman centred active natural birth.
Lisa Barrett
Thanks B456.
Without a C/S there is no way I would be having a second child. The first birthing experience (and I did read all the active birth books and apply the suitable preparations, physically mentally and emotionally) was so horrific that I left my body and very nearly didn't come back again. I'm not risking another walk through the valley of death to birth my second child.:
It's quite true to say that there aren't any upsides to a c/s.
Despite any of the statistical risks, C/S remains a valid choice for many women for whom the "upsides to a c/s" as Lisa puts it far outweigh the risks of a so-called natural birth, which in itself is NOT a risk-free process.
(Sorry couldn't hold it in any longer)!!
Armed with lots of good information, I'm sure you'll come to a decision that you're comfortable with.
For me, there was no question, I didn't want a c/s unless it was an emergency! I wasn't scared of the pain of labour, coz I kept in mind it was my body doing it's thing to birth the baby, and that it would end :) But I am scared of having major surgery with recovery time, that my body wasn't prepared for.
I especially don't want one this time around because I can't imagine not being able to pick up DS like I do now for cuddles etc. There's enough change going to happen in his life as it is without me having to stop him climbing all over me or picking him up. Of course, if it comes to the crunch and I need a c/s, well then there's no choice.
But it's another aspect to consider (looking further ahead at future children) that if you elect a c/s for your first, it increases the possibility that you'll have another for your 2nd.
Good luck with your research - and enjoy it! I loved researching everything during my first pg :)
Oh - and for the record, when you tell people you want a vaginal birth, they can be just as judgmental about that too, coz they don't believe you can do it. *sigh*. I learnt to keep quiet as a first time mum about my decisions, coz I got sick of the rolling of the eyes and the 'you don't know what you're talking about until you've been through it' comments.
Keira - my only advice would be to read the birth stories here on BB. You'll get natural, vag, emergency c-sec and elective c-sec stories....and you learn something from each of them!
It also helps to go into pregnancy with a healthy anticipation for the whole of it, labour included. I read up heaps (mostly on here, also 'New Active Birth') and hence got more than a little excited about my daughters (then) forthcoming birth....and with all the positive things I'd read about, I was able to go into labour with lots of confidence in my body. Of course everyones experience differs but my labour experience was most fantastic! Hehe, you can read about it somewhere here!
Good luck!
I didn't say all women who birthed vaginally I said all women who had a natural active birth. There is a big difference As is sounds like Marydean could tell us.
I am very curious to know what you think the upsides of c.s are, apart from the obvious one in a life saving scenario when of course we would all agree that they are fantastic.
Nothing is risk free I agree but birth is as safe as life gets . The risk of c/s far outweigh the risk of a normal birth and as intelligent well informed women we all know how much research is out there to back this up. Along with hospital figures, rates of postnatal depression, declining breast feeding and alienation of our own bodies.
For people who have had a trauma with a normal birth choosing a section the next time is often about fear and control. There are other ways to overcome this and there are other options available.
Lisa Barrett
Lisa, for me (having had trauma with a "normal birth" and having worked through this with breathwork, rebirthing, and energetic and wholistic healing) choosing a section this next time is about empowerment, not fear! I'm no longer afraid of my death, having seen it and stared it down the first time. The main upside of c/s for me, (even though clearly I'm doing something "wrong" to have had such a traumatic experience the first time round hahaha - *tongue firmly in cheek*) is that surgical pain - even major surgical pain, is less than the pain I experience giving birth "naturally". Even having employed every wholistic birthing technique within my grasp the first time round!! And no there are no other options, I did them and they didn't work for me.
I'm sure that would not be true for the majority of women, but in my case a c/s is a gift I give to myself and to my family, and it's a powerful part of healing my original experience.
Keira, I agree with everything everyone has said on here about arming yourself with information (that includes reading widely as well as discussing with your health care ppl) and making the decision which is right for you! Which it sounds like you are well on the way to doing already!
Mary Dean raises an excellent point.
I wonder how many women who have been unfairly labelled "too posh to push" are having elective caesareans because of horrific first time experiences. Or how many are first time mums making the decision to avoid the trauma they’ve heard from other women's stories?
No woman should have to go through what Mary Dean experienced! It's inhumane!
But it's far too common. "Normal" birth seems to have been transformed into some bizarre institutionalized form of trial and torture. At the very least we are leaving hospital in droves feeling we temporarily left our dignity at the door. At worst, we are coming out of hospital feeling confused, betrayed, shocked, and guilty. "I've got my beautiful, healthy baby –everything I ever wanted so why do I feel something is missing? Why can’t I just feel grateful?”
With a lack of answers, we blame ourselves, we blame our bodies, we blame each other, or we blame 'natural' birth for having failed us.
Let me tell you something: we didn't fail! Our bodies didn't fail. Other women didn't fail us. And birth didn't fail us. It was the system that failed us!
The system failed to give us what we needed to give birth. It failed to give us the environment...the support...the time...confidence… and trust to allow our bodies to do what they are designed to do: give birth.
No, we are poked, prodded, monitored and pressured to the point, that our bodies, quite sensibly, release ‘fight or flight hormones' that stall labour to allow us, like any other stressed animal, time to escape. Perhaps that what we should be doing: escaping! It is appalling that these are the choices available to us: Go to hospital and risk being poked, prodded, and pressured to the point of dehumanisation, even torture. Or have our babies removed by major surgery. And if we hit the jackpot we can have the torture and the surgery!
And all of this at the most beautiful time of our lives! Well I refuse to believe it. My body works. Birth works. It's just the system that doesn't work. Give us what we need and it won't be just the 'lucky' few having safe, ecstatic births. It will be the majority.
We need to start demanding a system where women matter. A system that doesn't force us to choose between our experience and a healthy baby. A system that doesn’t leave women pitted against each other for their choices and outcomes. We need a system that recognises that a mother and her baby are inextricably linked. One that understands a healthy happy mother equals the best chance of ensuring a healthy happy baby. It's disgraceful that so many women, like Mary Dean, are, quite justifiably, left feeling they have no choice but surgery to achieve it.
Good luck Mary Dean, I hope and trust all will go well for you this time.
Lesley
I'm so sorry you feel that way lisa. Obviously you are an educated person with such a closed off mind. I thought birth was about MY options and MY choices. If I choose a c/s then thats my choice and obviously i will benefit from it and it will have an upside for ME. I think its so sad that we get thrown in our faces the statistics of our babies dying via a c/s but you never get told any bad stories about vaginall "natural" births.
Your post is totally offensive to someone asking for positive things about elective c/s's.
Dear Kirsty,
I'm sorry you feel my post was offensive but it wasn't rude at all, just factual and truthful. I know there are bad stories of birth from the hospital setting and the medical model of birthing and may mail didn't actually support that either. Why shouldn't the statistics be thrown in your face when they prove that you are way more likely to face problems following a c/s than you are an active birth. When asking for opinion are you only looking for one that you like?
There is so much stuff out there to prove the risks. Anyone choosing an elective section for no reason other than they don't want labour really has to look at the fear element of birth. It can be scary but you can get great birth support out there if you look. Kelly has lists of doula's and midwives that support women to deal with their problems and go on to a great birth.
Elective section isn't so much a choice as an avoidance. You wouldn't consider any other major surgery just because you felt like and wanted the choice.
Lisa Barrett
I am interested to know apart from medical emergencies like placenta previa, what would be the reason for an elective section other than fear, oh convenience may be one I suppose.
Once you've looked at all the facts and evidence, what would make you ignore it except fear of childbirth?
Lisa Barrett
I think fear can be a very valid reason. I know a number of people who've had late losses (one who's baby was stilborn at 39+5 due to cord complications) who just don't want or cant face a VB after that. I am sure there are others who can, and thats great.
I just don't think that fear, particulary when caused by past birthing trauma, can be trivialised or put in the same category as convenience.
I wouldn't choose a c/s willingly, its my biggest fear WRT pregancy, but I think just as I am entitiled to that choice, just as womend should be entitled to a VBAC, women should be able to choose an elective c/s.
I agree that its important to have all the facts and statistics like you have said. I also agree that major surgery is not something to be taken lightly.
But its still my choice thats important, and for me, being empowered to choose for myself, to make an educated choice, is more important than what I choose.
I'm sorry I thought I was allowed a choice with regards to child birth. I must be living in different old fashioned world where I HAVE to have a natural drug free birth. I thought this day in age that If I wanted to ahve a scheduled c./s and sample every drug avail during child birth I could.
I admit, I decided on an elective cesarean for my son 3 days before he was born as I was scared. Scared for me and my baby. My very pro-natural birth midwife even recomended it to me as my son was very large (5.5kg) and she was afraid I would have complications too. 6 weeks before my sons birth, an aquaintance had a large baby also and he got stuck, did not breathe for several minutes and is now extremely brain-damaged. This also fuelled my fear. I know that this does not happen often, just because a baby is large, but that to me was a decision I made with the knowledge that I had. I chose another cesarean for my daughter as she had passed away and I was again scared. Scared to deliver my dead baby. So I guess you could say that I chose both of my cesareans out of fear, but I am happy with those decisions, I chose them as they were right for me. Of course I am disapointed that I have not and probably will never have a vaginal delivery, but I am glad that we live in a time where we can make decisions for ourselves.:
What about the women who don't have access to VBAC supportive OB's/midwives/GP's etc...
What about women who were raped?
Do they not have a valid reason for an elective c/s? What ever happened to "Your body your choice"?
Nic
Oh Lisa, I have only just read your post...
I am a woman who has pushed out 5 babies through her vagina... I have had empowering and beautiful birthing experiences four of those times...
I have also been with many many women at home and in hospital as they birthed their babies. Some of those babies were born vaginally and some were born via surgery...
I agree that women need information... In order to make good decisions we need to independently seek out the truth. Information, education it's empowering...
I don't think there is a woman in here who would disagree (though feel free to! ;))
Women choose c/s for many reasons. We don't know what is happening for every woman. You don't know what is happening in my head when I say I just can't do this. I just can't push out a baby... It may be fear and that fear it may be possible to work through with support/counselling and time. Or maybe it can't. Or maybe I can't. Or maybe I haven't the energy. But it's valid. When I pushed my 1st baby out I was 9cms for many many hours. This I believe was fear. Yes, I worked through it but would I have been less of a woman had I not??? Of course not. Do you know if I was sexually abused and just unable to push? Do you know if I was afraid of my environment? My care provider? Was I too hot? Too cold? These are all reeasons that labour halts.
I am pregnant for the 11th time. I have said goodbye to 6 babies. The last baby that passed through my vagina was dead. Am I afraid of labour because of this experience? Man, I am not sure? I am not sure if I can do it. I am gonna try because it's what I want for my baby, my body and my soul. If I can't I will be disappointed - but I have lived through enough to know that it's not the end of the world... Should I be told I am fearful if I chose to have a c/section??? Who has that right? That is my path, my journey. My growth...
Why is it so unacceptable to have fear of childbirth? It's bloody scary! I was scared when I did it the first time. Actually each time it's time to push I feel afraid... Without that fear I don't know how real we would be... Some folk can deal with the fear and push. Some can't. They are no less a woman...
I AM an advocate for natural birth as many of you know. However, before that I am an advocate foor woman and choice. That choice I always hope and pray is made from an educated perspective... But each woman has their own journey on this wonderful trip to motherhood... We need to love and support each other and treat each other gently and carefully...
I certainly make different choices to some of you... Please Lisa consider that we are not all made the same way... We all come from different backgrounds, life experiences, pains and joys. That is what often shapes how we make thsoe decisions...
:clap::clap:
Flowerchild. Words of wisdom yet again.
I have had 3 c/s 1 emergency and the other two elective but let me tell you it was very hard to convince my doctor why I wanted my first elective c/s even after having my first child born via emergency c/s. All 3 went well though and recovery was as expected ( hard and painful) but the midwives in the public hospital were a lot nicer than the ones at the private in my opion any way, it sounds strange to some but i think i got alot more help and support in the public hospital.
I have had an elective C/S for reasons other than fear or medical neccesity. You may not agree with my reasons, but I have had health issues that would have been made much worse by having a natural birth (that was my thinking at the time, it's different now, but that's off topic). In the end, I chose what I believed to be right for ME. That is all any of us can do, just as with parenting, we may choose different ways to do it, but we are informed & we do what we believe is best for us in our situation.
I don't think anyone here is trying to make elective C/S sound like a better option, or one to choose without a lot of thought. We are simply bringing our experiences & sharing them with each other - what better way to learn & make informed decisions than to discuss with others who ahve BTDT.
In the end the most important thing here is that we offer both advice & support to each other.
To me choice in birth is do I birth at home or at hospital. Choosing to have your body cut open for no good reason other that you want to shouldn't really be an option.
I'm not trying to trivialise anyone's feeling around birth and I don't feel the need to talk through my obstetric history to make a point. This is not personal it's about good sold information and safety. Advocates of natural birth don't normally say that elective section is a good option for some people. I'm sure having supported many woman at home ( you must be a homebirth midwife) then you can appreciate the significance of birth.
It sounds to me like everyone here has made their decision so discussion is pretty pointless, unless everyone says it's ok you don't want to hear it.
Lisa Barrett
Lisa, that's just the point though, you say that TO YOU the choice in birth is to birth at home or at hospital - that's fine - no-one is saying that is wrong. But TO OTHERS, that is not necessarily the options before them. I don't think it is fair to sayNo-one is doing for no good reason. There are very good reasons, they just aren't ones you agree with...that's fine, but don't assume everyone is the same as you. It really does come across as judgemental.:
Choosing to have your body cut open for no good reason other that you want to shouldn't really be an option.
I had an elective c/section. My waters broke, 3 days later I was still not in labour. I agreed to an induction (knowing the risks, and having delayed it for a period of time that I was comfortable with, but longer than what my OB would have preferred). After 8 hours of induction, I still had no contractions that I could feel, and my cervix was not dilating over that period of time. The baby's head was not vertex, but sideways, bypassing my pelvic outlet.:
I wasn't afraid of childbirth. Quite the opposite - I feel ripped off that I didn't get to experience it. It certainly wasn't for convenience sake (if timing was an issue, I wouldn't have waited so long before agreeing to be induced).
So I chose an elective c/section. I wasn't in danger. The baby wasn't in danger. But the baby also wasn't coming out. Perhaps I could have waited another week or two after the failed induction to see what would happen.. but to be honest, the risks with that were unknown to me. I had 2 internals by the stage, thereby increasing the risk of infection, and was unaware of the risks of having had IV syntocinon without a labour/birth eventuating, as this doesn't seem to be a common occurence. Whereas I was well educated about the risks of a c/s. I chose the known risks over the unknown risks.
Not fear, not convenience, and not a medical emergency ... but my choice, and an educated one too.
I have been around a while and count amongst my friends many many midwives, some obs and many woman advocates... I totally disagree that you can't be an advocate for natural birth but understand why c/section is a choice for some women. I really don't know how you can be an advocate for women and not understand that. But that is me and I am coming from my place. Your place clearly is very different.
There are very few women who front up and say: I want a csection without their own reasons. Do I always agree??? Absolutely not - sometimes it's very difficult to truly see why a person makes certain decisions... Would I try and explain the pros and cons - absolutely I would with gentleness and respect... Would I say well you're wrong for choosing this birth choice??? Not in a million years. Because I have seen so many times why women make their choices... Some women can share... Some women want to grow through it and work through it and choose to birth vaginally. Some women grow and work through it and choose to birth via surgery...
Do I think c/section should be less available? mmmm I think that all women should be given the facts without sugar coating... I think all women should be offered continuity of care with a midwife of their choice (this alone cuts c/section rates...) Do I think that women who have a natural, well supported vaginal birth have more satisfaction with their birthing experience. Well in my experience yes. However, I have supported a woman who had a previous still birth with her c/section and never have I seen a more empowered enraptured glowing mother...
However, we need to understand that we are not all made the same way Lisa. Some of us choose to grow in other ways. Birth isn't a competition that needs to be won. If you get that vaginal birth you have made it! No, if you feel empowered, in control, educated than you have made it... I do think that vaginal birth where it is safe and emotionally possible is a safer more satisfying option for most women.
I do lament that in our country the availability of a c/section is more ready than that of a water birth... But that's a whole other thread...
This is about supporting women who have made an informed decison. It is a growth thing (I believe) to be able to do that even when it may be a decision you may not make for yourself...
Be gentle with other women Lisa, we need each other for this long parenting journey that only just begins with the pregnancy... :hug:
ETA: I am NOT a homebirth midwife... And, I felt the need to recount my birthing history as it's relevant I believed... I think it's important to share our stories... It shows where we all come from... :hug:
It may come over as judgemental, but it's actually only factual evidenced based reasoning. I don't assume that everyone is the same as me at all. Quite obviously I can see that none of you are like me at all.
It's worrying however that unless we all say, yes this is ok, whatever you all like on this forum you are seen as judgemental or unreasonable. All anyone wants to hear is yes that's a great option for you and your baby, yes we understand what you've done yes it's ok to make these choices. In in reality most people don't actually think this at all. Only others who are making the same choices. If everyone reads the facts and then still would put themselves and their baby at risk ( 4 times more risk than normal birth) then I think there is every reason to question why that is and what is happening in society to fail these women.
Lisa Barrett
I was given a choice the day my waters broke with my second son. We knew he was going to big. our biggest concern was his shoulders getting stuck.. My husband nor I were willing to risk it even though I was terrified of a c.s and had been fighting with the Drs for weeks as to why I wanted a natural delivery. It wasn't bad nor something to be afraid of. Before I was even pregnant with my 3rd we made the decision to have another c/s and the same went for our 4th.
I know I am medically capable of delivering a baby naturally but I choose not to..
One is the pain.. I don't want to go through it (yes I have had a natural delivery, was textbook according to my mw)
two is the planning.. time off from work son from school ect
three (for us) is knowing that my child will be born safely.. yes I know the risks involved but i feel the risks are more related to me not the baby. both my c.s babies were in special care. 1st was for completely unrelated reason and my second I think he had fluid on the lungs that weren't expelled during labour. but that was resolved quickly. He also had low blood sugars due to me having GD.
I think when someone asks a question about an elective c.s then unless you have had one you should probably stay out except maybe to share your positive experience with a natural delivery. Say how you were scared and made it great..
Well Thanks Aussienic Are you telling me to shut up?
Lisa Barrett
No not at all.. Just more how about share your positive experience instead of telling her how bad a c/s is.. Give her something else to focus on
I don't think anyone here is expecting everyone to agree with them. This discussion has already had people bringing up the cons of C/S - and I definitely agree that there are many! But all that is asked is that the approach is one that suppots others, instead of judging them. I feel you are judging others. The fact that you say "Quite obviously I can see that none of you are like me at all." shows to me that you are being judgemental. The funny thing is that I am in agreeance with quite a lot of what you are saying, but I don't like the way you are saying it.:
It's worrying however that unless we all say, yes this is ok, whatever you all like on this forum you are seen as judgemental or unreasonable. All anyone wants to hear is yes that's a great option for you and your baby, yes we understand what you've done yes it's ok to make these choices.
Totally agree Nic.Unless you've had a c/s then its not your place to comment. Its unfair, I wouldn't go into a vaginal birth thread or question and give advice.
I love Michel Odent and that's a wonderful quote that you have shared thankyou Lisa...
I wouldnt' say you are not like anyone here. I certainly have never had a c/section and hope I never will... Yes, the risks are greater... to both mother and baby. That is factual and true...
What do you do though about a woman who just can't do it? Say well sorry my love you just have to? Is that respectful? Is this showing dignity to the birthing Mama?
I dont' agree with c/section for convenience... I don't and I can't understand it because that's not where I am... I don't believe birth should fit into our lives... That's my opinion...
I don't really think that that is what we have been discussing. We have been discussing why women choose c/section. It is a tiny minority that choose it for convenience...
MOre often it is a medical reason/fear or coersion from a medical professional... This is why education is important. Then a woman can decide if this is what she wants... Weighing up all of the facts...
Now, to why a woman would choose the much riskier option of surgical delivery???? Lisa, one very valid reason for some women is the death of a previous baby... It's like a post traumatic response... It is incredibly intense... Each time the midwife puts a doppler to belly the fear strikes... That takes an incredible amount of support, courage and love to get through... Many women do and how wonderful... Some don't and that's okay too.
I don't disagree with the reality that vaginal birth in a healthy mother with a healthy baby is a far safer option than c/section... That is an absolute fact...
However, why we make those choices isn't necessarily so clear cut for every woman...
I find the way you are speaking difficult... especially after such a quote... We need to show all women dignity and respect I think... Replace our own barrow pushing with a little understanding and love... :hug:
I am passionate about birth choices and women making informed decisions about birthing. After my first child I was devestated because all the choices were taken out of my hands.
I feel that women should have a right to make their choice based on the risks they are willing to take. Personally, I wouldn't choose to have a c/s again. I prefered vaginal birth and personally I would try for a home birth if there is a next time.
Having said that, I feel that attacking someone for their birth choices is just not on. I mean I know that there are more risks having a c/s and I would never encourage someone to go forth & have surgery. BUT I know women who just wouldn't be able to birth naturally. I know in my circumstances that without the beginning intervention I wouldn't have had a c/s. BUT by the time it got that far there was no going back.
I feel that we should be educating women from the beginning of the birthing process. Read informative books and get help and support for birthing. Don't leave it all up to chance. In the end if they choose a c/s, its their informed choice.
Hmm, how long til there's an infraction issued????
Lisa I am glad to be not like you...
I have birthed both my babies vaginally, but I'd not be so rude & abrupt to those whom have chosen a C/S...
They have their reasons, why not leave well enough alone!
CSections scare the hell out of me. I very first elective caesarean I saw the woman died of an embolism. She left behind 4 beautiful children. The baby never got to even hear her mammas voice or feel her loving touch. She died on the operating table. So if we are going to talk about choice, let's talk about the baby's choice, I bet that baby would of wanted a mother to grow up with but instead she was denied that basic human necessity. We rave on and on about mothers choice but frequently forget the inocent passenger. Another complication that could have been easily avoided through spontaneous physiological labour.
I urge women who choose csection to explore those reasons and seek counselling and work through those feelings whether it be fear or otherwise. At the end of the day we all want healthy live babies (and mums), and caesarean's aren't the best way to achieve that.
Read Michael Odent's "THE CAESAREAN", a very knowledgeable man and a great book.
In the right place caesareans' can save lives, but they can also kill people, lets not forget that.
I agree with Lisa Barrett, birth is birth is birth. But somehow society is failing women into letting us believe that women should have choice in these matters. The same can be said about formula feeding. I can't imagine any baby putting up their hand and saying, yep I'll have that and start life with a less than perfect start to life. We need to support each other in working through our fears, concerns, worries and doing it together. Not just supporting by saying, it's ok you did your best. That is such a weak comment which no one benefits from. We would do better if we could come to a forum like this and help each other deal with our problems rather than white wash over them.
I too would urge women to seek counselling and guidance... But Rachel not everyone can do it. Not everyone has it in them, wants to, knows why whatever...
I have not seen a woman die during c/section but I have seen babies die... I have also seen them die vaginally...
I agree with Shannon... There should be more propping up of women... Do you think it's beneficial to say: Oh you had a c/section what a shame you didn't birth vaginally?
I feel like I am swimming up stream here... I am defending the right for women to make an informed choice.... I may not be comfy with that choice but it's NOT my journey or YOUR journey it's theirs... Isn't it a far better "thing" that they felt valued, respected and supported than inferior???
It shouldn't be us and them... Fanny births this side of the room and tummy ones this side???? Again, it's not my birth choice and I urge women to be informed and educated... But let's be kind, gentle and loving not devisive and judgemental... :hug:
Would we be kind to a mother who choose not to put her baby in a car seat when driving? I know I've seen that frequently, and I certainly don't think, "but it's their choice!" The similarities are very similar.
It's certainly not a us and them. My best friend had an emergency caesarean (after a physiological vaginal birth for her first baby, now 3) and I thank God every day, we have that technology or simply he would't be alive. I think it is very ignorant though to shrug one's shoulders and say well it's choice, because when its elective in the abscence of ANY medical or psyhological problems it is a less than perfect way to be born and less than optimal way of starting live as a mother. It's not about making women feel inferior, but rather empowering them, obviously by choosing a unnecessary surgery they aren't feeling very empowed or capable or propably even supported by their care provider. Lets face it in the private system, I don't know anyone who would be turned down for an elective surgery, afterall the surgeon is just looking after his own (or her own) pay packet.
I think that one of the main things that is being missed here, is that choices are being made for reasons, and those reasons are not being respected. I wish I had a natural birth, but didn't, for reasons I think were valid. I think that it is insulting to compare that to not strapping my child into a car seat.
I've said it before and I will say it again. Why is it anyone else's business about how a mother chooses to birth their baby.
This thread was started because Keira wanted to know about elective c/s. People responded by giving her some information - positive, non-judgemental information. Shannon gave her a list of website to look at for vaginal and c/s. This is what we should be doing for women that ask questions, not attacking them. They are trying to be informed and educated by asking the questions so why can't we leave this thread to what it was at the beginning - giving Keira positive information.
Has a survey or discussion been held to ask every woman that has had a natural birth if they regret it?:
Yes other options are c/s. I believe unless you have had a traumatic vaginal birth how can you comment about why people choose to have a c/s.:
No statistic should be thrown in anyones face. It is about giving people information in a polite manner. Others have told their story about c/s to give the cons about c/s but it hasn't been thrown in our face.:
I have looked at all the facts and evidence in regards to vaginally and c/s. But what is important is that I am going to make a decision that is right for ME not anyone else. Fear can be for so many reasons. If someone is scared to give birth and wants to have c/s why should that matter to anyone else but the mother. Why is it our business. What about the fear of losing another baby to cord accident? Is that a strong enough reason. I am not scared of childbirth, I have done it. I am scared of losing another baby and nothing could be more scarier than that.:
Most people (as you put it) have their body cut open for a very good reason. One that you may not agree with you but you don't have to, but they shouldn't be judged either.:
Factual evidence is great - but you aren't looking at the bigger picture. Most people that elect to have a c/s is done based on doing their research, being informed, being educated and ultimately making the best decision for THEM. What about the factual evidence of how many c/s have saved babies lives. I wish I was one of these statistics instead of being another type.
And sometimes they are. It depends on each individuals situation.:
At the end of the day we all want healthy live babies (and mums), and caesarean's aren't the best way to achieve that.
why are obs also sterotyped. They are not always looking after their own pay packet. Alot of them are doing what is best for the mother. My ob has always done the best thing by me.:
afterall the surgeon is just looking after his own (or her own) pay packet.
Flowerchild - everything you said is perfect. You are not making judgement of anyone but just giving facts. That is what we should all be doing. Once again, words of wisdom.
I am absolutely petrified of having a c/s but I am more scared of losing another baby. So what choice do I have, how do I give birth to my next baby. To me, there are risk with both ways but I know that my ultimate goal is walk out of the hospital with my baby in my arms. Whatever choice I make, it will be my choice based on information I have.
Why is there always a debate when a question about c/s is raised. Why can't we be positive about the way a woman chooses to give birth and support her through her decision.