Feeling conflicted, guilty and undecided about how to birth baby #2

TFB - you don't have to worry about the system so much in a HB. An IM becomes your advocate if you have to shift, but here in Aust more than 90% of planned HBs occur at home, with 95-98% of planned HBs being non- instrumental vaginal deliveries. If avoiding a maternity system that frankly has been based on trial and error through practice rather than proactive scientific study is important to you, then stay out of that system. There are care providers who feel exactly the same way you do about the hospital system, so their support is going to be the complete opposite to what you've received. I'm not sure of the stats where you are, but I'd say the same to you as to Blondie.

Figure out the birth you want and find out how it can best be achieved. There are plenty of others who've walked a similar path, look at what worked for them and see if you think it might for you.

And this might not be PC, but if you don't want your DH there, don't have him. Michel Odent would be totally with you on this. He's got plenty of time to bond with his child and if his presence at the birth makes it harder for you (and thus will impact the baby too), then he can stay away. Birth is not everyone's thing. I had a doula so DP's support was optional. He knew nothing about birth, I decided making him my primary support was placing too much pressure on both of us. He was there, but I don't have your trauma and if I did, maybe he wouldn't have been.

That said, DD2's was such an amazing experience that it brought us all much closer together as a family. I have heard other women say their similar births helped to heal the division caused by the trauma first time around.

Oh, and don't confuse empowerment with the need to fight. They are not the same.

Sorry to hijack Blondie.

TFB, maybe start a new thread elsewhere about this? Especially since this is in c/s support.

Hijack accepted :D lol! I am finding it all very interesting and informative!

Flying butter - I never looked at it that way. We shouldn't have to fight what should be a natural process for our bodies to go through. I think for me, it was being deined what I wanted. One particular midwife kept telling me things like "You don't need the drugs your almost there".....(35 hours into labour) and then telling me "Your doing it wrong, don't do it that way"... since when is making yourself comfortable "doing it wrong". I think the icing on the cake for me was when to get my point across I had to scream and scream and scream and then start bawling asking for the Epidural. Your should never have to be hysterical to get your point across....I was at the point of no return and I felt like a cornered animal.

Yeah, I totally agree with TFB, also. Carers should focus themselves on working for women - their job is to help and support mothers to birth. If a woman feels unsafe/cornered/disrespected, etc, etc, then someone's not doing their job right.

TFB: depending on your Birthing B****, that might be part of the brief. The one and only time I was given that role to play, keeping the estranged father OUT was part of my job. To be clear - I was to get him out if and when he hampered the process, upset the birthing mother, or started being a jackass in general. All of which he did. So I kicked him out, after confirming that's what she wanted. And then I enlisted the assistance of the midwives to keep him out, so I could concentrate on her. My DH was also there (not in the room - in the waiting area outside the room) to keep out random friends and family who thought the birthing process was some sort of reality TV program to be viewed and critiqued.

Now, your DH/DPs are probably not 19 year old asshats who decide that they need to be high as a kite and on the phone screaming at their mother for being interstate while you're trying to give birth, but being at the birth is a privilege not a right, and THEIR priority should be keeping you calm and happy and in the best of care. If that involves them being ejected from the room, then so be it.

The bloke being in attendance at the birth is still a reasonably recent phenomenon in Oz, and still isn't universal. I think there's still a time and a place for him to be elsewhere, when it's in the mother (and therefore the baby's) best interests ... they can bond when they're out.





Aside from all of that, and back onto your initial question, have you had any time to journal about it? Write a journal entry, or a letter to your bubba, about your hopes and fears about their birth ... sometimes writing it all out helps us figure out what we're thinking ...

Blondie, don't let anyone make you feel badly about wanting to avoid trauma. I got the same thing with my first birth. I really wanted a natural birth, who dosent? and it wasn't to be, my baby didn't engage and after 41 weeks with blood pressure starting to soar my options were induce which my OB said had a pretty good chance of ended in emergency C.s due to my baby not being engaged and they weren't sure why or C/S.

I chose and elective C/S, I was devastated at first, however know myself, and could not handle 30 hours or whatever of labor and end up with the distress of an emergency C/S. In the end it was the right choice for me and my baby as the cord was wrapped around her neck twice and very short, so short she couldn't engage, so it pretty much confirmed that my OB was right, we would have been an emergency with possibly distressed or dead baby or dead me. Without modern science we probably would have both died, as she never would have been able to get out. Ugh.

I still get people give me looks, like I copped out or took an easy option, my recovery was straight forwards but was by no means easy. If I has to go through a failed VB I don't know that I would have been able to cope at all if I'm honest. I think I would have shut down from the trauma. BF failed, I suffered from anxiety and depression afterwards because of this, and the unrealistic expectations I placed on myself. (I thought if it had to have C/S BF would damn well work! well it didn't) And I had a severe reflux baby. Hey I did get to use cloth nappies like I wanted. Life sometimes has a funny way of giving you what you need rather than what you want. The C/S was no party I was numb almost up to my chin, exhausted but I got to hold my baby all the way through, she slept on me in recovery and BF once we ere back in our room. I too have issues with midwives as they didn't help but hindered me and made me feel like everything I did was wrong constantly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you had massive trauma last time, I see no reason to go through that again. I would discuss what happened last time with a trusted OB/GP , get them your notes from last time from the hospital and discuss the risks/ pros/cons and make your decision from there. This is what we did. I know myself and my body was so glad we made that choice as I got a happy and healthy baby and I survived too.

This time around, I'm going to try for a VBAC, but if the same thing happens again I will choose elective C/S again. I will not hesitate. For me while recovery from C/S was hard, recovering from a failed VB and Trauma from that I would not be able to cope with at all. You need to do what is good not just for your physically I think, but mentally and emotionally as well. I found the failure of BF harder than the decision to C/S. This caused me lots of heartache and tears. How the baby comes out, isn't the definition of you as a woman. Sun roof is a fine option if needed.

Take care, and ignore those people that are not supportive of you. No-one other than you and your husband make this decisions.

xx

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Aside from all of that, and back onto your initial question, have you had any time to journal about it? Write a journal entry, or a letter to your bubba, about your hopes and fears about their birth ... sometimes writing it all out helps us figure out what we're thinking ...

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Here: https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...about-Liebling

I also met with a hospital midwife in my home when Liebs was 2.5 and I'd left it too late to put in a complaint, but she did agree that I had not been treated well and many things happened that shouldn't have. And the midwives had documented that I didn't want drugs and they'd kept offering them, that the monitoring showed X but the midwives ignored it to do Y and so on and so forth - the arrogance that they document their failings and don't expect to be called up on it - and they weren't because I couldn't bring myself to complain within the year.


Have you debriefed fully, Blondie? For me it was also being denied - denied my right to be treated as a human, denied my wish labour as I wished when there was no problem, denied my right not to be bullied... sounds like other people telling you what you want instead of listening to you, you had similar denials.

Thanks for your support everyone :grouphug:

I am pretty much certain now that I will be taking the C/S option. I wrote down the pro's and con's of both options and I realised the only things that were making me think twice about C/S was the lack of support from people and also the mother / baby attachment issues that may arise from being separated momentairly from bub. I was paranoid that baby wouldn't know who I was and therefore would have issues latching, sucking etc, but then I remembered that I was rushed off to theater with DS anyway and didn't get to see him for an hour at least....apart from the first cuddle straight after delivery. So, in order to help with the issues I have decided to not tell people about how I am going to birth, I will just say "we'll see how we go" and to sort out my other fear of mother / baby attachment I have a good friend who is a Midwife who I am going to ask to be a support person and to help me establish breastfeeding.

I have also read up on exactly what will happen to me before, during and after C/S and I do feel like I am more prepared and more knowledgable about my decision....now I feel like I am going in to this experience with my eyes open and not closed.

Glad you're feeling more positive about your decision. If you go elect you should have a midwife assigned to you and have bubs in recovery with you for that first feed.
Wishing you all the best for a much better birth experience!

Sounds like you're feeling much more at peace.

:hug: Good luck, hun.

Thanks Ladies :) I really couldn't have done it without such amazing support. Everyone helped me to face reality and to not be scared about going through all the options. This is going to sound bizarre, but I was really worried about making a pro's and con's list as I was certain going over details to do with my birth and what I wanted out of the next one would only make me upset and further stressed but it had the opposite effect!

Blondie - I'm glad u have come to a decision u are happy with, it is the only thing that matters!

I just wanted to let u know that I had a c/s with my first DS in January and after initial cuddle he was taken with my HB back to the ward and meet grandparents and my sister for about 45mins before I can back down and in total it was about an hour before we were feeding (my temp took a while to come down so was in recovery a little longer). But he is a champion feeder and has never had any attachment or supply issues for the last eight months (touch wood!)

I wish u all the best for your remaining months and enjoy ur baby when they arrive!

So glad your at peace now Blondie :) Just put in your plan you want your baby on your chest through out the stitch up and in recovery with you. It is what I did. Unless something goes wrong most hospitals will do that now. Planned is much better as you will most likley have a midwife allocated in recovery to you so you can BF or snuggle with bubs there.

Take care and hope the rest of your pregnancy is HAH. xx

Thanks Ladies :)

Minivini2b - I hope that this bubba feeds well. DS didn't feed well, but I blame myself, he and I were both so exhausted from the Labour that he slept though the night and so did I! So first night he had hardly any feeds and pretty much second night as well. I am hopeing that this time I will be more attentive and remember to wake him for a feed.

Lolpigs - Can you write a birth plan for C/S? If so that is awesome!

Yes most definatley :) Just give it to your OB before your date and discuss it with him like you would anything else. I had delayed cord clamping (which didnt happen) but I got everything else. I got bubs on me the entire time I was being stitched up, hubby was there the whole time, the staff took a picture of hubby and me and bubs, She was on me in recovery however I was a bit out of it, later I learnt this was from the morphine so I'll be requesting pethedine instead next time as I had a massive itching fit for hours afterwards, and we BF back in the room. I unwrapped her in recovery and layed her on my chest, the midwives kept fussing but I just refused to let her be rewrapped, she just snuggled and fell asleep. Feeding well or not is largely up to bubs, however C/S does contribute a bit, but not poor suck etc thats the baby heh so dont be too hard on yourself :) ( which is what we had)

And dont stress if you dont have the energy to BF in recovery, I didnt the midwives scolded me (which started a week of bullying and intimidation about not being able to produce enough milk and bad advice and resulting comp feeding but hey) but just ignore them, Just do whatever feels natural. This is what I will change next time. No midwife is going to make me feel that way again.

Blondie, my DD slept through her first night too, and i didn't wake her for feeds either. DS didn't feed much in first 12 hours either.

Have you thought about writing a breastfeeding plan too? https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bf-...stfeeding-plan

And yep, definitely write a C/s plan.

Just on the breastfeeding - I fed DD2 sooner after the Caesar than I did DD1 after a VB. My milk also came in a lot quicker too - day 3 compared to Day 7. I had attachment issues with both but that's because I have really large nipples and not to do with their mode of birth. While it's ideal to get breastfeeding off to a great start, also be aware that it's widely regarded that its possible to teach bottle fed babies to breastfeed under 12 weeks of age as its something they do instinctively. I know this because I relactated with DD2 at nine weeks of age. I say this because it's really easy to beat ourselves up about what we did or didn't do in the first hours/days but there's a big window to put things 'right'.

Thanks so much for your encouragement ladies :) I was feeling a bit paranoid about the BF'ing side of things. A lot of things were not in my favour with DS, really big boobs, large and flat nipples and my flow was very fast. DS chomped down a lot when he was latching because of the flow, which caused thrush on the nipples, cracks (which I can still see today!) and mastitis. I also had enough milk to feed triplets according to a nurse :redface: argh!

I am going to write a breastfeeding plan and then a birthing plan and see how I go. I really hope my OB is supportive. Going through the public system and I have heard it's a bit of a hit and miss....IYKWIM

Lolpigs - I need to take a leaf out of your book and most of the other ladies in here as well....(I could make an encyclopeida of all the good advice I have been given in here) everyone is detrimined to have the experience they so rightly deserve. I can make my first labour my rough draft, and my second my masterpiece! LOL

HotI - I'm definetly going to check that out! Thanks sweet! :)

FionaS - That's amazing! Well done! I have never heard that but I suppose it is natural instinct isn't it?! That has made me feel heaps better. But it makes me sad to think that I still might have had a chance with DS had I just sought some more help and not been "put off" by people. The nurse I went to see basically weighed my Son and told me that he was a perfect weight and I was doing well. Didn't bother watching me feed, or asking how I was feeling about the issues I was having. Told me, everyone has issues and that they will work themselves out. If the woman had bothered to talk to me she would have realised that waiting for the issues to "work themselves out" wasn't an option I was stressed out and neeeded help now! Next time I am going to be pushy about what I want.

Just wanted to update everyone....I am going in for my first OB appointment this Thursday, which I was told will be the appointment where we discuss birth options. I have decided to press forward with my decision for a c-section. I talked to a midwife about it last week at my appointment and she was supportive when I told her about my labour last time and why I was considering a c-section, she told me ultimately the Doctor will decide whether I can have one or not, but if I feel strongly enough about it and present him/her with my reasons it would certainly be considered.

Now I am feeling a little bit stressed about if they say no....

I am also having the talk with DH tonight about the whole thing...I want him to realise that I will be out of action and there will be times where he will have to "fend for himself" while I attend to the baby, plus ensure he is aware of recovery times etc.

Sounds like you're at peace about your decision :hug:

I've never heard of a standard Dr not agreeing to a c/s in circumstances like yours.

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Sounds like you're at peace about your decision :hug:

I've never heard of a standard Dr not agreeing to a c/s in circumstances like yours.

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thanks hon - I do feel more settled and at peace :-) yeah, I don't think they would refuse me but you never know.

Blondie,

I am wishing you all the very best for your upcoming arrival of your little one. Your decision to choose a c-sect is a very valid one & I believe that the OBS will be supportive given why.

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Blondie,

I am wishing you all the very best for your upcoming arrival of your little one. Your decision to choose a c-sect is a very valid one & I believe that the OBS will be supportive given why.

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Thank you so much :) I can't believe I am nearing the halfway mark! Time is flying - and OMG you are about to pop! So exciting!

Well appointment went really well :) the Doctor was a lovely person and let me explain everything to her, by the end of it she was in tears...which made me cry. She said the choice was mine but that she would support a C-section for me. All I wanted to hear was that she would support my decision so I am really happy with the outcome. Couldn't have asked for a more positive experience :) now I feel like I can relax and enjoy my pregnancy...thanks to everyone for being there for me and for helping and guiding me to establish what I want for my next birth :hug:

Greant news Blondie :) Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and birth of your new bubba!

Fantastic news - I know just how much this stuff can prey on your mind. Now you can chillax and get excited about welcoming your little one xx

That's great news Blondie. It's wonderful that your OB has supported your decision and you can now enjoy your pg :)

Thanks lovely ladies! :)

So happy that you were listened to and have your choices heard and respected...it's a BIG step towards an empowering birth this time around xx

That's great news! So happy for you.

Huzzah.

I'm so glad you've come to a decision and have the support of your OB. Don't let anyone push you around. You can do this however you want. It's your body and your baby.

:hug:

Thanks everyone :) I honestly don't think I would have had the courage to stand up for myself and for baby if I hadn't been well supported by everyone on here.

I had my third daughter by emergency c-section on 11/13/12. She was due on the 6th and on the 11th, I was induced. For a day I was only dilated 2 cm. When I was finally dilated to 10 cm, the doctor checked me to see if I could start pushing. He discovered that my daughter's face was on my cervix and was in a position where an emergency c-section was needed. I had really wanted to have her vaginally but after 45 hours of labor, I ended up being ok with having the c-section.

My other two daughters had been born vaginally. My first was the less dramatic birth experience. My second was definitely not what I had expected. The birth itself wasn't what made me want to not have anymore kids. It was what had happened to my daughter right before she was born. I won't share what happened to her unless you would like me to.

I didn't read all of the replies but it sounds like you have a great doctor and I hope your birth experience is a happy one.