What a great discussion (not a fight at all).
I only got to page 7 and my head is spinning with all the fantastic points raised. I want to give my 2 cents and don't know where to start.
Firstly, thanks for sharing the c/s article/birth story that started all of this. It was a great read. I think one of the things that are misleading is the title: In praise of the c-section. I think if it was titled "In praise of my c-section" it would already be different. It is this particular c-section the writer is so happy with, in the context of it saving the life of her baby and quite possibly her own. She is not talking about elective c-sections being a better choice than vaginal births when there is no medical reason for an operation. Nobody is disputing that necessary c-sections are a godsend.
My sister in law had a c-section. It was not an emergency. It was however necessary. She is tiny but carried a relatively large child which ended up pushing onto her kidneys (one had stopped working due to the pressure, the other was compromised). This was not life-threatening. But it was very painful and bad for her health. She was told, an induction would be too stressful for her body, so she had a c/s at 38 weeks (a day after diagnosis). She never felt like a failure. She isn't a failure. It was out of her control.
During my pregnancy with DS, I was told there was a relatively high chance I would have placenta praevia. So a c/s was a definite possibility for me. I did feel a little sad when considering it. Especially after a beautiful empowering water birth with DD. I had been looking forward to more of the same. But I quickly came to terms with the possibility of needing a c/s. No feeling of guilt or failure. Just a little disappointment. Just like you might be disappointed at the weather or other things that are completely beyond your control.
By the way, my PP corrected itself (as most do). But I agree,in the situation mentioned by a previous poster, in that moment, it was probably not the right thing to say. That should have been brought up before the c/s or well after, if the mother initiated. Not shortly after when it is still so raw and emotional.
On the other hand, my friend wanted a natural birth. Her baby ended up being awkwardly positioned with a huuuge head. Long, difficult labour. She ended up with really bad internal tearing and a fistula. A year later she is still up for more corrective surgery. Yet she has never blamed the doctors for not intervening earlier. She has also never said she wished she had planned for an elective c/s from the start. Or that vaginal births in general are dangerous. She has accepted this as an unfortunate outcome, but has never questioned her choices. I really commend her for that. And she does have a beautiful son to show for it.
I do believe BB is a very respectful and informative forum. Yes, it is a little biased towards natural birth, gentle parenting and other ideals that are not exactly mainstream. That is what is so fantastic about it. If I wanted to know about the advantages of epidurals, I could ask an OB. If I wanted to know how to control cry my baby, I could ask my MCHN (I know this is an unfair generalisation, I'm just trying to make a point). I also could ask most mothers I know - excluiding the ones I met through BB. Mainstream ideals are not hard to find support for. It is those of us who don't feel that those ideals sit right with them, who seem to have a lot more problems finding support for their choices.
NOBODY I know or have ever talked to on BB thinks necessary c-sections are bad. Most of us think we're very fortunate to have the medical system as backup for when things go wrong. It is misinformation and fear-mongering that we have an issue with.
The lady in the original article does not seem to hold a grudge with what happened during the birth of her child. And that is great. There is no reason to. She needed a c/section - period. There is no reason for guilt. Grief - possibly (although not in her case). But not guilt. She just has an issue with other people making assumptions and making a value judgement based on only the method of delivery, in the absence of any further information. And I completely agree, this is neither fair nor right.
ETA: On re-reading the original article, she does actually express some grief or loss about not having experienced a natural birth. So she is not even saying that women shouldn't feel loss. They just shouldn't have to feel guilt, shame, judgement orinferiority.
For what it's worth, no matter how you bring your children into the world, people will always judge you. My DD was a birth centre water birth. I had people rolling their eyes at me when hearing that she was born in water. I declined the HepB shot at birth and was shocked how much judgement I got from nurses and doctors. My son was born at home. No, it was not planned. He just didn't mess about once he had finally made up his mind to come out. The way people react to this story still amazes me. Some people think I'm nuts and a tree-hugging hippie (when they see he is wearing cloth nappies, that just confirms their belief). It's like they decide instantly that I am not to be taken seriously as I'm a naive natural birth nut. And when they listen long enough to realise he wasn't meant to be born at home, I do get the impression that they believe I have brought it on myself because I somehow subconsciously delayed going to the birth centre. But others treat me like I'm some sort of hero for it. I am neither. Fortunately, most people just react in amazement. Not at me, but at the circumstances, which were rather memorable. But then again, all births are.
And yes, Inanna, when telling people that I was planning for DD to be present at the birth, people frequently reacted in horror or disgust. In fact, she handled it extremely well and I am glad she was there (even if DH had to miss it :( )
The notion that has been brought up a while ago, that it is only the result that counts, really annoys me. Of course it counts that you have a healthy living baby in your arms. That is the MOST important thing. But it is not the ONLY important thing. The hormonal, emotional and physical journey into motherhood is also very important. The hormonal ****tail released during labour has physical effects on both, the mother and the baby.
My son's frantic birth has impacted my ability to bond with him. Not hugely, but noticeably. And only in the first couple of months. However, if I mention that IRL, most people look at me in disbelief and tell me that I'm ungrateful and that I should thank my lucky stars that I birthed him so easily. I DO thank my lucky stars. Not only that the birth was "easy", but also that there were no complications as I would have been completely unprepared. But only on BB can I find people who understand that there might be a little more to it than just the "mother and baby are healthy".
I'm sorry, as usual, I'm rambling and even I don't quite know what my point is anymore.
I guess, one of them is that while we do not set out to intentionally hurt someone's feelings or induce guilt, we should be able to state our opinion and the facts. Political correctness can be taken too far and blur the issue. If I say, that breastmilk is better than formula, that doesn't mean that I condemn women for formula feeding. It also doesn't mean that I hold breast feeding women on a pedestal. It means only one thing: human milk is better than artificial milk. What you do with that information, how you choose to use it, is up to you.
Likewise, if I say, a natural vaginal birth has many benefits to mother and baby that outlast the perinatal period, that does not mean that I think c/s mums are inferior to mums who pushed a baby out. All the emotion that goes into this, although understandable, is making us read into statements way too much.
And to the poster who doesn't frequent this forum anymore: thanks for your enlightening contribution.
