3yr old Council run kinder VS Child Care based kinder....????

[Beach Mama]

We just got Izzy's kinder acceptance for next year. It is our second choice and the days are Tuesday and Thursday from 8:45-11:15.

I will more than likely be working the Thursday again next year so it would mean that to go she would have to go to mums and kinder on that day.

I am considering just leaving her at CC for the days that they go anyway while I am at work because they will have a fully qualified kinder teacher there running a program.

What concerns me about this is that when I have asked them about it nobody really knows much as they don't have one there now. I also asked if the program is run for certain hours and they said no she will run it each day for the full ray which seems a bit odd.

I know it's only kinder and 3yr at that but I don't want her missing out somehow if this program at CC isn't as good as the council one even though it is for less days. I also know the girls do a wonderful job at my CC but they have alot of kids - there are 30 in Izzy's room on a Wednesday, she copes beautifully however there isn't alot of one on one and although they say programs are individualised I know they aren't really when there are that many kids and fair enough.

Ok so anyone in the know out there who can clear up my fuzzy questions?!

[*Efjay*]

Sounds like you are best leaving her where she is. She is happy there, it suits your work hours. I probably wouldn't be concerned with changing at this point. She is going to gain more from the place she is happy & comfortable at, being the one she is most familiar KWIM?

[feeb]

I would use CC one as she is there allready and happy. Sounds like it suits you all better.

Good luck

[littlelara]

My two go to a cc for a full day once a week and they have a kinder programme. I adore the teacher, she really loves the kids and they learn so much from her. She is only there from 9 - 3:00, so after that they move on to extended care programme with the other carers.
Beth only got accepted into 4 year old kinder this term, so before that I had her in for an extra day at cc to make up for it as I thought she needed more stimulation at 4. The cc prog she goes to encorporates 3 and 4 year old kinder so J will be in it as of next year.
They need accreditation to run a kinder programme, so I'm sure it will all be organised properly when the time comes.
Also, fwiw I thought the hours for 3 year old kinder were a bit all over the place and messy. It's fine if the child has never been in that setting before and you want to ease them in, but if your child is content at cc I would leave her there
HTH

[Beach Mama]

Thanks Lara and everyone! I think that is what I needed to hear, because the CC girls sound like they don't really know how it runs with a qualified teacher, they dont have one right now so Im not sure why or what happened but Im hoping whoever starts there stays. There is a bit of a turnover at the place they go to, thank goodness both DD and DS's fav carers have been there since they started in Jan.

I think I will leave it as it is for next year and might look at 4yr old at the Montessori Pre-School the following year when J will start 3yr old.

[Floweryfields]

I think you will find that a good childcare centre will provide a program that is on the same par with a kinder. Just as you may find badly run kinders - just because someone have a bachelor qualification doesn't mean they are a good teacher iykwim.

[Liviam]

Tan we have just gone through the same thing too. I talked to kinders and CC and it seemed silly for me to take DD out of CC and put her in kinder (with the same kinda hours) which neither DH or I could have picked her up for the same experiences/activites as she would be doing in CC. So we are keeping everything the same for next year and may re-look at it next year for 4 year old.
Two things that also swayed us is our CC has a full kinder program. Kinder starts at 9am to 3pm (can't remember exact times) and is in a seperate room. So the kids have to get their bags, are lined up and they go into the kinder room for their kinda day. They then do their kinder program. At the end of kinder they can either be picked up or they go back into their room until home time. So it is kinda both. DD is still getting the kinda experience and they make it different from the CC day and we don't have the nightmare of trying to pick her up when we are both at work.
DD loves where she is going so i don't want to risk moving her and having her upset. Plus we can drop DD and DS off at the same place and not having to do two different drop offs.

[~me~]

For the first time my DS2's kinder has run the 3yr old kinder program. They also have a lot of kids in the room. What they have done is split the kids into two groups. So for the first half the of year red group have the 3yr old Kinder teacher and the second half green group have the Kinder teacher. It's working well as the kinder teacher is in the room all the time anyway so the kids get the benefit of her all the time really.
TBH I think the CC run kinder program is better, in that DS2 is being to taught to write his name, letters and numbers. Where as I believe most council run Kinder programs use 'learn through play'.
I am pretty sure DS1 learnt to write his name at CC 4yr old kinder rather than the Council run one when he did it, he was in both at the same time. The CC run one seemed to be more structured.
I have a Council run spot for 4yr old for DS2 next year..I am pretty sure I am going to reject it as I too will be going back to work and he will go to creche instead.

[Beach Mama]

Where as I believe most council run Kinder programs use 'learn through play'.

Ahhhh see that is what I want though! I wish more kinders did this and were play based as kids learn far more than they do i structured activities at this age. Many schools are going down the play based learning/progressive education path for Prep as well with awesome results including the last school that I taught at. I am even considering Montessori and Steiner later on for Primary School and wish I had put her on the list for the Montessori pres-school. Ugh it's all so hard to decide and at this point I am thinking I will pay the deposit and book her place, wait to meet the new kinder teacher once they begin at CC and decide at a later time. I may lose $50 at least then I will be sure. I may also put her in for one term and if it doesn't work out, take her out to the CC again.

[~me~]

Ahhhh see that is what I want though!

It should work out well for you. I am not sure what state you are in, most Victorian Council run Kinder's use the 'learn through play' structure. The CC use it to a certain degree. It just different as the kids are at CC all day so they are getting 'learn through play' and whatever Kinder program they run.
My DS1 goes to a Catholic school that is open plan..no class rooms or doors, no separtate buildings (other than the gym), no toilet block or canteen and he is thriving. It is great, as he was quite a shy, reserved boy and has really become familiar and confident with himself under this learning structure.
It is a tough decision, went through it once with DS1 and going through it again with DS2 and I am sure I will be going through it again with DD Lol!

[Floweryfields]

Also worth considering at the end of 2011 all 'early childhood' facilties - CC, kindy, etc will come into line with the national framework - so everyone will have to be providing services under the same structure and guidelines. Not sure about other states, but in QLD private kindys such as C&K do not have to go through the national standard accreditation system that all child care does (which doesn't seem fair really) at the moment, but in 2012 all bodies will be under the new system. They haven't really finalised what those are yet, but as the NCAC is very high on the play based, child centred learning, then that will remain.

[Beach Mama]

So a bit of an update. I had a chat with Izzy's room leader yesterday about kinder and in a nutshell she said she would get far more out of a structured kinder program that just coming to C. She basically said it would be CC and not much else. I asked if they did set hours of program etc and she said no it goes all day (so it is "just CC"- I say just but you know what I mean, they do a fab job but her room has 30 in it most day and the kinder room is the same).

So now I am super glad we enrolled her in kinder but I think I might even try to find a place that does CC and a separate kinder program, otherwise we will have to just do both and see how we go with tackling pick ups/drop offs etc.

Ausgirl that is really interesting hun, one thing that the girl at CC said was that Kinders have the list of things that they HAVE to do and the one at creche doesn't.

[Mak]

Tan -We have DD1 in council kinder and cc. My motivation for this is that she has big separation anxiety issues and really does not cope well with the long day. She goes to cc once a week whilst I am at work. We have done 3 yo kinder this year and it has been worth all the effort (as it is 2 x 2 hour sessions a week here for us). She has had a really great time and her separation issues have seemed to also diminish as the year progressed. To my mind there has been a stark difference between the cc and kinder - I think most obvious is the session times are set and all the kids are dropped off and picked up at the same time. Our cc is long day care and the drop offs and pick ups are all day as are the shifts and breaks of the staff, all of this is necessary to provide a safe environment to everyone but I think it does make it hard to offer the same things. Our cc kinder teacher changed this year too and there has been a change in the program - this has also helped as she loves me to be able to read what they are going to do as we get there, it is a lot more formalised and structured around numeracy and literacy as the teacher is very keen and motivated (and newly qualified). However I do think that DD learns just as much in the more organic kind of environment at the council kinder - the teachers seem to run with the kids interests and they have some really amazing projects, discussions. On a aside note we have also made some lovely friends and had more play dates etc. I have found this hard previously as most of my MG are SAHM's and I am working PT so not always available and we seem to have dropped out of the loop whilst most of the cc kids parents work FT so we never really see them or get much of a chance to hang out. I am just glad we have been able to manage both - so I can keep working and so DD can enjoy kinder too.

[littlelara]

Oh, that's a bit disappointing.
I'm not sure they can call it a kinder programme without accreditation, though, so you may find that once the teacher is in place it's not like normal cc at all. But you won't know for sure until you can meet the teacher.
I think Beth actually learns more at the cc kinder (she comes back singing about planets and continents and the days of the week) but there wouldn't be more than 15 in her class, I don't think.
Let us know how you go

[Beach Mama]

Thanks Mak - that sounds great!! Iz is pretty settled at CC and loves it even with huge numbers and the long days she does (7:30-5, 2 days a week) but I still would like her to get more out of it than just playing with 30 odd other kids.

Lara - see that is the thing it is meant to be a Government approved program so I don't understand what will happen. I think I will still just wait until the kinder teacher is employed and will have a chat to them about it then. My dad is a bit sick and I think it is too much to ask of my parents to pick her up, drop off at Kinder, then pick up and keep her for the rest of the day. Blergh I hate not knowing, I want it all planned, set in stone NOW not in a few months time