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What's the future for the childcare industry?
Following on from discussion in another thread about fees.....where do you see childcare going?
As a director, I struggle, everyday with a pile of issues in this industry. Wages are a big one, as is retaining staff and getting qualified staff.
The govt has all of these brilliant ideas that we are expected to adhere to (like a bachelor qualified teacher in Qld next year), though the practical solutions of how to implement them just aren't there.
Childcare just can't compete with the other jobs that are out there....and seeing as alot of you ladies depend on it for your children, I am interested to know, how you see the future if the industry falls in a huge heap?
I have more to say, but ironically, I have to go to work....
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Personally, I think it is really important to have a staff member with a Bachelor of Education. I would not send my child to a Centre that did not have one or two staff with this level of qualification.
There's a vast difference between kindergarten (as we call it here in Victoria) which is taught by a teacher with a Bachelor of Education and childcare/creche.
As a parent, I would prefer to pay extra money to ensure this is the case.
Just my two cents
Registered User
Whilst I see the government is trying to make things better for the childcare industry, they're not doing the most important things for it, which is pump money into it. It has become a necessary service these days and needs so much more put into it, though will usually create very little return in way of money and tangible, real outcomes . People need to realise this. But in creating good solid basis' for the childcare industry, we would be creating solid foundations for children and families. And happy children and families are what the outsome needs to be in the long run.
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Gee, this one really is a mine field, and I have to say that I really don't have the answers... At the moment Australia has a really low unemployment rate and I think a lot of industries are suffering as a result, child care (and education in general) included. I guess the only perspective I can really offer is that of a parent.
In terms of education levels of staff, yes I think that is important. But should it be mandated? I'm not so sure. My DS has only been in CC for just under a year and is in his second room (went from the babies room to the toddler room). Now I love the centre that he goes to, it has a great philosophy and some really dedicated staff. But TBH in my experience the quality of the staff seems to have little to do with their education level, I think it comes back to passion. In fairness his room leader last year who had qualifications was brilliant. And yes the room leader this year is also wonderful. But there is another team member in his room who is qualified, but TBH doesn't compare to the older lady who has no formal qualifications. The qualified one clearly has the books behind her, but in practice she lacks warmth and understanding IMO and when I have seen her discipline the children she just doesn't do it as well as the other lady. The other lady exubes warmth and love and genuine care for the children. So in my experience, I think you are either great at what you do or you're not and a degree can't necessarily change that...
But to get back to your original post, I think the government really needs to invest in the childcare industry. Especially because of the skills shortage Australia is grappling with. Extra funding is needed to allow the centres to attract and keep quality staff, but also to make it easier for parents to continue participating in the workforce.
Before having DS I was the 'bread winner' for want of a better term. I had a job that I loved that paid me quite well. I am now back at work 3 days a week and DS is in CC for those days. At this point in time I don't really want to put him in more, and on a personal level feel that I have a really good work/life balance. But from a public policy perspective the system is flawed. Financially it makes far more sense for me to work 3 days a week than 5. CC care costs $90 a day and while we're only doing 3 days it all gets the CCR. At the same time, because I am working less hours I fall into a lower tax bracket so am pocketing more. If I was to go up to 4 or 5 days, I would be paying more for CC (cos the rebate wouldn't cover those days) and earning less on a day by day basis because of the income tax ramifications. The extra money that I would bring in for sacrificing those two days with my child would be minimal and simply not worth it.
At the moment we are starting to think about TTC number 2. Now with just one child in CC I feel that my working part time is worthwhile, I contribute a reasonable amount of money to the family budget which enables us to live a certain quality of life. But when I start to do the sums based on what we would end up with if we had two children in CC part time, the financial incentive isn't so great. And then when you hear rumours that the govt plans on means testing the CCR, you start to think if they do that, then I would really have to consider not working, because I would be working 3 days and have very little to show for it after we paid the CC fees.
We're lucky because we're in the position where I don't 'have' to work. Things would be a lot tighter if I didn't but we would get by. I work because I find it fulfilling and feel that I need it to be the best mother that I can. Yes the financial benefit is good, but it's not the driver. But on the flip side of that, if the money I was actually pocketing was largely insignificant, I don't know if I could be so motivated... While we might earn more than the magic numbers the government puts forward, we're certainly not living a lavish lifestyle. Just basic living (housing, food, utilities) is very expensive where we live, so while our incomes might be above the govt's line we certainly need the assistance they offer in terms of the CCR (after all, where not eligible for any other form of assistance).
So after rambling on and on, I guess my point is that I see the Child Care system as being integral to the entire Australian economy. With the skills shortage the country has (and lets face it, it's been a good 5 years or more and there is no end in sight) a child care system that is in reach to all Australian's is essential to maintaining the workforce. If child care is too expensive, then there is no incentive for both parent to work, regardless of what income bracket they fall into. And if that incentive isn't there the economy will suffer, labor will become more and more expensive, the cost of living will increase more and more... And eventually we will have an overstimulated economy which can only go one way...
So, I guess, from my perspective the govt needs to invest heavily in childcare because in a lot of ways it underpins the sustainability of most other industries.
Last edited by Phteven; May 11th, 2011 at 04:09 PM. : pls check your PMs
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
I think we need quality childcare, definitely. But to be honest, I think a lot more effort needs to be made, by both the private sector and government, to make workplaces more family friendly. It seems absurd to build an economy where both parents often need to work, then take tax dollars to fund childcare places. We should have guaranteed parental leave schemes (for both parents, at least 6 months), and flexible work arrangements for parents of small children, onsite creches, etc, etc. I know lots of people and businesses will jump up and down about how expensive that is, but I'm pretty sure if you work it out, including all the tax dollars that go into things like baby bonus, CCB, CCR, etc, and the lost productivity to private enterprise, not to mention the social cost of children who see so little of their parents (and vice versa), it would be feasible.
Childcare IS expensive. Of course it is and frankly it should be. It's vitally important that children are well cared for. Maybe this isn't always the best way to do it, you know?
Registered User
i keep trying to tell our manager that he needs to put a creche in (we are a training org - so in theroy it could work to the benefit of the organistion) and more than hald his staff have one or more kids but his response..... "too many issues - kids dying, kids running away - to much hassle"if this the mind set then we are doomed.
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It's interesting because there is occassionally a bit of a push here about setting up some kind of childcare facility. But TBH even if we did do it, I don't think I would want DS to go to it. The centre my DS goes to is brilliant, it has an excellent approach, great facilities and fantastic staff. Anything that my company would create would probably only have the one carer and be restricted to the one room. Because of the small scale (it wouldn't service any more than 5 or 6 kids tops, of different ages too), I honestly don't believe that DS would get nearly as much out of it as he does from his current centre. The only benefit it would provide would be proximity to me. And to be honest, if DS is going to be in CC I want him to get as much out of it as possible and for it to be a positive thing in his life, rather than just filling time away from mum.
Obviously, it is different for big companies with hundreds of staff who can run a viable centre of a certain scale where it is able to offer the children a range of opportunities. But, for small to medium businesses, I don't know that it is in the childrens best interest. For babies, yes it would be good, but for toddlers and older children, I'm not so sure.
Please don't shoot me, just my opinion.
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Onsite creches would be no good in rural regional areas - I work for a very large state government department - but we are in a regional area and only have 8 in the office, DD is the only one using childcare so there still needs to be those private suppliers of childcare.
I agree that the passion of the carers is the most critical thing. And for that, they need to get paid a decent amount. I don't know how that can be funded, I am astonished at the cost of the daily fees in the cities. We only have 3 centres that we had to choose from when we were looking. The first place was small and I could not imagine all those children fitting in the room when it was pouring with rain outside. The second place had the most unmotivated people working there I had ever seen. When we walked out I told DH I would rather drive 30 minutes each way to the next town than send her there. The third place had happy children, carers who were interested in us and the children there and obviously loved their jobs. This has been ongoing as DD has moved up through the different rooms in the centre. The qualifications of the staff were not something that we were at all interested in when we were looking - it just felt right.
Also one thing which I think needs to be addressed more (particularly in NSW) is preschools. The number of publicly funded preschools is pathetic. Coming from the ACT, each primary school has a preschool attached to it with 15 hours (I think) of education provided for kids the year before they start kindy. Providing more preschools would make a massive difference to the education levels of our children as well as take some of the load off the childcare centres.
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
Certainly there isn't going to be a one-size-fits-all solution for this.
Since we have largely lost extended families and community support in parenting, professional childcare is a must. And not only for working parents, I might add.
There's a wider issue here to do with the way our whole society is structured. We're still so stuck in the mindset that at work we are workers, we leave our families at the door.
Fundamentally, we don't value parenting. Economically speaking, I mean. As parents we know how important it is personally, but it's important to all of us that all children have the best start possible. The lifelong ramifications are enormous - education, productivity, health and so on. Parenting isn't the only factor here, but it's a big one. And it isn't something that should be done by parents alone - there's a place for the extended family, friends, neighbours, and also childcarers, but ultimately also employers and other members of the community. We all benefit from good parenting, and suffer from a lack of it.
Families need options to sort out what is best for them, and the cost should be shared by all.
I'm curious on the educational side of things - I had never expected childcare to 'teach' DS anything. I expect a safe, caring environment in which he can play and explore. The learning is incidental to that. Is this for older children? If my son were at home with me all the time I still wouldn't be teaching him things, per se
Registered User
It is a tricky one - on one hand from a users POV I see some really dedicated and passionate people (not necessarily qualifed as prev mentioned) whose role is vitally undervalued, monetarily and also by society. People pay a large fee per day to use this service (standardly at least $100+ per day here) and as a result I think they may also expect a high level of 'performance' as a result, rather than recognising that play is learning and the kids are just that not mini adults. I do wonder how fine the line is between the cost and wages - certainly the CCBR makes it viable for me in the longer term and I am kind of just hanging in there so I can maintain my position/job as I would never get my level of job back if I were to resign and return PT, in addition I would have to undertake a uni refresher course if I was to 'drop out' of the workforce for 5 years.
I see the cc workers/centres as being part of our extended family for the day/s my kids go but they are super long, I also see I am more realistic about the kids being happy and having fun than perhaps everyone is.
TBH now we are contemplating school hours/holidays I am at a loss to know how we will manage - it does seem like the odds are against working parents. My workplace limits the amount of school holidays you can book to 2 per year. Anyhoo - off topic........
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I agree whole heartedly with everything you've said MadB.
Certainly there isn't going to be a one-size-fits-all solution for this.
Since we have largely lost extended families and community support in parenting, professional childcare is a must. And not only for working parents, I might add.
There's a wider issue here to do with the way our whole society is structured. We're still so stuck in the mindset that at work we are workers, we leave our families at the door.
Fundamentally, we don't value parenting. Economically speaking, I mean. As parents we know how important it is personally, but it's important to all of us that all children have the best start possible. The lifelong ramifications are enormous - education, productivity, health and so on. Parenting isn't the only factor here, but it's a big one. And it isn't something that should be done by parents alone - there's a place for the extended family, friends, neighbours, and also childcarers, but ultimately also employers and other members of the community. We all benefit from good parenting, and suffer from a lack of it.
Families need options to sort out what is best for them, and the cost should be shared by all.
I'm curious on the educational side of things - I had never expected childcare to 'teach' DS anything. I expect a safe, caring environment in which he can play and explore. The learning is incidental to that. Is this for older children? If my son were at home with me all the time I still wouldn't be teaching him things, per se
In terms of the 'educational' side of things it was never something I considered until DS started CC. At the time, I think if the cost had of been comparable I probably would have opted for a nanny.
But now that DS has been in care for awhile, I see the 'educational' benefits. And when I talk about 'educational' benefits, I'm not necessarily talking about the typical things we think of when we talk education. DS is only 22 months, so it's far too early for that sort of stuff...
Initially when he started at 12 months I saw the value in him getting to experience things he didn't get to experience at home. For example, they started him off painting on his first day (I still wouldn't think about letting him loose with a paint brush at home LOL), he gets to go outside and play whenever he wants (we lived in an apartment at the time and only had a tiny courtyard).
As time goes on, I see more and more of this sort of stuff and see him bringing things home that he's learned at CC. They have an italian teacher who comes in once a week and sings all the nursery rhymes in italian, they introduced him to washing his hands, they ask every time they change his nappy if he wants to sit on the toilet. But aside from those sort of things, it's subtle things like the rowing action when he hears 'row, row' your boat, or playing Boo, or exhibiting an interest in puzzles early on etc etc. It just seems like every day there is a new word, or action that he has learnt, that hasn't come from DH and I.
I'm not saying that he wouldn't get these things being at home with me all the time, but I feel like at child care he is offered a smorgers board of different activities where he finds things that he is interested in and his learning and development isn't just driven by me and DH iykwim? Instead he is driving that and the carers feed back to me the things that he is enjoying so we can foster that at home.
One of our centres key philosophies is actually that 'play is childrens work'. They focus on exposing the kids to a host of different things and then fostering the areas where they show an interest. I guess what I am saying is that I don't think I could possibly expose DS to all the different things they do at care. So without it, he may not discover an interest/strength/whatever until much later in life.
And then there is the social side of it too. It's learning from a young age to accommodate and respect others. And beginning to understand that there is a whole world of opportunity and ideas outside of our family unit.
Hope this makes sense. I was actually suprised by it, like I said early on I thought a nanny would be better, because I was focussed soley on the caring, nurturing aspect and saw care in some ways being a loss for the child as it was time they weren't with their parents. Now I see it as being of great benefit, yes the care and nurturing is fundamental to it, but it's the other things that care exposes DS to which make me think it is an invaluable part of his life and development as an individual. TBH now I wouldn't have it any other way. When we do have #2 and I go back to being a SAHM for awhile, DH and I think it is really important that we maintain DS's CC because it is beneficial in so many more ways than just giving him something to do while mums at work iykwim?
Registered User
Totally off topic-
As an early educator (in NSW, maybe different in other states/territories), it frustrates me that parents think of childcare (as in long day care or similar) as somewhere that 'teaches' children. Long day care centres are not meant to be teaching children anything like reading or writing. This is a service for children to come to either be cared for so parents can work, or to provide families/children different sorts of interactions. Some children can be there from 7am-6pm. These services are required to be 'home-like' because children can be using them for such extended periods. Childcare workers in these services aim to give children care. That is, quality interactions, affection, and quality, interest/needs based experiences. This is all based on what the families require/request, what the child is interested in/needs and what the centre is capable of supplying. These services do not have curriculums, or outcome driven goals. Their goals are based on the well-being of the child and family, it is needs and interest based. If parents want their child 'educated' at this age, then they should be looking into government run preschools. Not childcare centres. Children will learn in these centres, because that is what children are innately driven to do, carers will provide activities and experiences for children based on what the child shows them they want. A good childcare worker will see what a child is showing them, and promptly follow thier lead, there for 'teaching' them. To the child, it's all fun and games, to the inexperienced eye (possibly a parents') it is just childish games. To a childcare wroker, it is called scaffolding. Teaching based on the childs emerging skill sets and interests.
Sorry. Rant over. Back to topic.
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This is exactly why I put such value on the role care plays in my sons development. You may not consider it 'teaching' or that may not be it's intention. But like you say children are innately programmed to learn. When I talk about the educational benefits of childcare it's about life education and the world outside of their family unit.
The very nature of care exposes to children to a vast array of activities, interests and social interactions that they may not experience till much later in life. In many childrens cases (including my own) I believe that it is highly valuable to be exposed to these things early in life and fosters their growth as an individual. I don't expect CC to teach him to count, write or read or whatever. But I do feel that the centre is playing a key part in his education by fostering his interests, natural curiousity and encouraging him to explore and consider the world around him. To me, this is the foundation of education, without these concepts and approach to life I do wonder if down the track he would find the transition to formal education more difficult (who knows, that is a long way off...).
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I haven't read all the responses so far, so I might just be repeating, however my thoughts come from the perspective of an ex-childcare worker... or more specifically: an unqualified teachers' assistant of 5 years at an Early Learning Centre for children from 0 - 5yo. This ELC was attached to an Anglican Girls' school in inner Melbourne. It offers long day care and pre-school programs. It was not-for-profit as all profits earned were churned back into the centre. We had higher than legally required staff ratios with every room leader/teacher having a degree of some kind or another. I gained a degree in fine art while working here and my role was often to provide fresh ideas for the teachers with regards to their art programs. The fees were higher than your average childcare centre but this ELC offered so much more than most centres. Because most of the children were full time they participated in an extensive program that involved specialist 'subjects' such as PMP (a movement program that incorporated dance, sport, gym... the children used the main school's purpose built facilities), Library (used the school library). language (French and Japanese, with specialist teachers) music (with a specialist teacher) to name a few.
Now to answer the question! I believe that linking Early Years learning to a larger school entity really works. Contact with older siblings is increased (they saw them at whole school events such as church services, special event assemblies, performances and inter school "excursions" into their class rooms. The ELC has a much greater access to facilities and expertise when sharing with a school. Parents of all students at the school see the staff at the ELC in a different "light" than at usual child-care centres. I was percived as an equal to all the other school teachers merely because of my presence in the school. I often heard parents say "oh look there's your kindy teacher!' when i was seen at the shops before they would come up to me and say hi. This is a very important thing. I feel that most child-care workers are perceived as mere baby-sitters and hence the reluctance to pay a fair price for their expertise and tertiary study.
I don't know whether my experience is the future of all child care centres in Australia... but I do believe it would work and benefit both staff and students. And yes... babies are, i believe, students. Play is learning at work. The key to a good Early Learning experience for a child is to have their exact level of development identified (and this is a very individual thing) and catered for. Too many centres just provide programs with a one-size-fits-all approach to their programs. I really believe our youngest learners deserve better than that.
ETA: Just to clarify the nature of the learning at my old ELC. The centre adopts the Reggio Emilio pedagogy (science of childhood learning). It was a very child directed method where the children themselves had a certain degree of control over what they wanted to learn. Staff did not adopt, what I believe to be the 'old fashioned' method of teaching whereby you stand at the front of the group and instruct. Instead the Reggio way is to share the learning journey with the child. Identify yourself as a co-learner and not an All Knowing superior individual. So we spent a lot of time facilitating discussion between circles of children so that they were given the chance to share their knowledge. Another staff member (often me!) would document the childrens' learning with lots of written quotes, photos etc so that a record of where each child was at... and so we could keep track of each child's particular interests... so we could weave them into their learning experiences. This method, i find, is much less exhausting for children compared to mainstream teaching/learning. The Reggio approach is also to offer a calmer learning environment that what you tradionally find in more child care centres. You will find more natural materials and less bright plastic materials. The rooms are not overy bright with a million colours screaming at you... instead you will find indoor plants, drift wood, natural fabrics. you might say it's all very "Zen". I firmly believe this makes for a calmer child. Too much colour in a room is like fairly floss on the mood... and it's exhausting! Anyhow without going into too much detail i just wanted to mention that when i said "students/learning" i didn't mean 'gruelling'. This ELC was far from it!It was a very comfortable place for a child of any age to be durig their long day care.
Registered User
I don't disagree with having a qualified teacher, but attracting them to the industry is very hard. It's fine the the govt implement these ideas, but how, practically, do we get people to the industry? Very few teachers want to swap the wage and hours at schools for the wage and much longer hours in cc - plus only 4 weeks holiday per year.Personally, I think it is really important to have a staff member with a Bachelor of Education. I would not send my child to a Centre that did not have one or two staff with this level of qualification.
There's a vast difference between kindergarten (as we call it here in Victoria) which is taught by a teacher with a Bachelor of Education and childcare/creche.
As a parent, I would prefer to pay extra money to ensure this is the case.
Just my two cents
Yes I do agree, in my experience, a piece of paper certainly doesn't guarantee a quality program. My pre prep teacher is fabulous, but she doesn't have a bachelor, so we are forced to move her from that room because the govt says we have to. I know a woman who does have a right quals and certainly doesn't have the same skills. It's kind of offensive to dedicated staff to be told this.
[.It is a tricky one - on one hand from a users POV I see some really dedicated and passionate people (not necessarily qualifed as prev mentioned) whose role is vitally undervalued, monetarily and also by society
An assistant said to me today - x parent had told her she was getting paind $27 to pack shelves at the local Foodworks, 'who decides that someone looking after the lives of small children are only worth $15, yet stacking tins, which are far less valuable, is worth $27?'
And I can tell you, without doubt, any child care worker finds it frustrating and offensive that we are viewed as offerring nothing further than babysitting services. Yes, I totally agree with you, we aren't there to be teaching formal learning, children have 12/13 years of that ahead of them. BUT you cannot say that we aren't teaching them anything - because we most definitely are!!! We teach them independence, self worth, how to share, that there are other people in the world that matter too, how to care for themselves and others.....I could go on and on, but I won't.
Point is, that kind of statement while not exactly on topic, does actually play a part in the topic, because that is sadly how some view us still, here in 2011. Perhaps if we were seen as more valuable than baby sitters, then would would be seen to be worth more, both financially and in other ways and therefore, there'd be more of us entering this industry, rather than leaving in droves.
Enjoying the replies ladies, keep them coming....I suppose the point of starting this thread, many of us are feeling pretty disillusioned in our workplaces at the moment. Me personally, as a director I am responsible for ALOT of stuff - I manage wages,payroll, income, fees, budget, licencing, accreditation, rostering, staff issues, parent issues, departmental issues, recruitment (staff and family), centre promotions, WPHS, maintenance issues, all administration and then there is making sure all the staff under me are doing their jobs right.....if a child hurts themselves and the parent isn't happy, the buck falls to me.....to acheive my position, I had to pay out an additonal $2500 for the extra qualification, to therefore earn an extra (initially) $.90/hour.....now after a few years experience, I earn $2 an hour more than my next most senior staff member....
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Bath - I have PMd you. Please forgive my apparent lack of grammatical skills when you read it.
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That is why there should be more emphasis on people doing the Bach. of Teach. in EARLY Childhood. Not Primary Teaching.
[QUOTE=ausgirl;2800435]And I can tell you, without doubt, any child care worker finds it frustrating and offensive that we are viewed as offerring nothing further than babysitting services. Yes, I totally agree with you, we aren't there to be teaching formal learning, children have 12/13 years of that ahead of them. BUT you cannot say that we aren't teaching them anything - because we most definitely are!!! We teach them independence, self worth, how to share, that there are other people in the world that matter too, how to care for themselves and others.....I could go on and on, but I won't.....[/QUOTE.]
I think you may have misread what I said. I am in no way implying we don't teach anything. We teach way more than people think. But not in ways that may be terribly tangible. Children may not go home reciting the alphabet like their mum asked us to teach them that morning, but now they have a grasp of the fact that print has meaning. Maybe they can't tell us that they're playing with the blue car, but they can now group things into colours.
Childcare workers are way undervalued. I have studied for 4yrs just like anyone else with a bachelors degree, plus I have my diploma in social sciences. And I have 18yrs experience in the job. Noone I know with such skills and qualifications gets so underpaid. It's not worth me going back to work to put my children in childcare I would be paying more in fees than I would be earning. Ridiculous, hey?
Registered User
Definitely there are some owners making quite a bit of $$ - I am not sure how the societal change can occur so the pay is commensurate with responsibility and experience, as it tends to be in occupations that are not for profit (although many cc are privately owned), like nursing, teaching that the pay vs responsibility level is not on par with the private sector IMO. I am biased of course cos I work in a public hospital and have lots of responsibility!
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