Paying for daycare on public holidays ?

**Cass72** · April 23rd, 2013, 01:22 PM

It irks me too, but I suck it up because I'm fulltime and get paid for public holidays. I feel sorry for people who work casual/PT and don't have a choice and/or still have to work so have to sort out care for the day plus pay for their regular childcare. The other thing that gets me is that my childcare fees cover care, food, nappies.....my DS doesn't wear nappies. Average on 4 changes a day that's 20 nappies a week that I shouldn't be paying for.....okay, a small amount, but it adds up when you take other chidlren who don't wear nappies.

**wysiwyg** · April 23rd, 2013, 01:38 PM

It irks me too, but I suck it up because I'm fulltime and get paid for public holidays. I feel sorry for people who work casual/PT and don't have a choice and/or still have to work so have to sort out care for the day plus pay for their regular childcare. The other thing that gets me is that my childcare fees cover care, food, nappies.....my DS doesn't wear nappies. Average on 4 changes a day that's 20 nappies a week that I shouldn't be paying for.....okay, a small amount, but it adds up when you take other chidlren who don't wear nappies.

I think it is a bit of a slippery slope to start breaking it down like that - because all children will incur a different cost on a center - e.g. nappies (some may need till 3.5 some only till 2), through dietary requirements (for allergic or religious reasons for example), some children require more attention than others (and staffing decisions can be impacted by that), babies need a higher staff to child ratio than older children, some mums provide breastmilk - some use the centers formula etc etc.

**Nai** · April 23rd, 2013, 03:00 PM

I pay too but it never really bothered me as I knew that that was the case prior to joining. I don't work on a P/H but I get paid not to be there so it works out the same budget wise for me. I guess it's similar to the fact that I pay even if DD2 is sick or on holidays unless I can sell my day to someone else.

**Cass72** · April 23rd, 2013, 03:25 PM

I think it is a bit of a slippery slope to start breaking it down like that - because all children will incur a different cost on a center - e.g. nappies (some may need till 3.5 some only till 2), through dietary requirements (for allergic or religious reasons for example), some children require more attention than others (and staffing decisions can be impacted by that), babies need a higher staff to child ratio than older children, some mums provide breastmilk - some use the centers formula etc etc.

True! Maybe I'm just being too pertnickity!

**Floweryfields** · April 23rd, 2013, 04:47 PM

Yes, centres have to pay their staff so that's why they do it. We have smaller group sizes on some days so provide our parents with a 'make up day' but only if there is sufficient room and it doesn't require addtional staff.

If you are a Monday parent - you cop it a lot more. If I were choosing days to work, I would pick Tue, Wed, Thurs as public holidays infrequently fall on these days.

C&K in Qld (stand alone kindy not for profit) also charge for public holidays so not sure if other private not for profit kindys do as well. I imagine everyone's enrolment agreement would have a part about agreeing to pay fees for sick days and public holidays as ours does.

Does this mean that if the centre closes for 2 weeks over christmas (as many do) that parents still pay for those 2 weeks??

If a centre is closed on a gazetted public holiday you are legally allowed to charge fees, if you close the centre for a period that isn't a public holiday - such as 2 weeks over Christmas, you are legally not permitted to charge a fee.

If I owned a centre, I wouldn't charge parents for public holidays as I don't agree with it myself but I have to do what is required!

**HotI** · April 23rd, 2013, 05:02 PM

It would be more fair if the money needed for the public holidays was spread over the whole week, so that those who only use the service part time, and on Mondays aren't coping the whole fee.

**Astrid** · April 23rd, 2013, 06:35 PM

Just working with figures. Lets assume a full year (no extended Christmas break), week days only.
So 261 childcare days per year and a daily fee of $80.
There are on average 10 public holidays per year, so that drops actual childcare days to 251.
To not have parents pay for public holidays, the $80 per day fee would need to be increased to $83.19. An increase of 4% approx.

**wysiwyg** · April 23rd, 2013, 06:45 PM

Just working with figures. Lets assume a full year (no extended Christmas break), week days only.
So 261 childcare days per year and a daily fee of $80.
There are on average 10 public holidays per year, so that drops actual childcare days to 251.
To not have parents pay for public holidays, the $80 per day fee would need to be increased to $83.19. An increase of 4% approx.

Interesting - if like peanutter you are utilising one day a week and is say a Thursday (so probably one public holiday a year) - you would pay more this way than the daily rate for the public holiday is that right? 3.19 x say 45 weeks = 143.55

**Astrid** · April 23rd, 2013, 07:16 PM

Interesting - if like peanutter you are utilising one day a week and is say a Thursday (so probably one public holiday a year) - you would pay more this way than the daily rate for the public holiday is that right? 3.19 x say 45 weeks = 143.55

Thats right. Someone with just one Public Holiday to pay for, would end up paying more, but someone using a Monday, would save.

In one way I think it is sensible to not have users pay for Public holidays and everyone pay a slightly higher rate, as it would help spread demand, Mondays wont be so unpopular. Also would be less stressful for the staff to not have to deal with parents complaining about paying for them.

**AnyDream** · April 23rd, 2013, 08:01 PM

Ok, here's what I think. In many instances, the CCR & CCB received by the center may be the majority/all of the payment that the center gets from some families (or many families depending on socio-economic circumstances in the area). Those centres really need to be charging "all families" for public holidays even though a lot of that day's revenue actually comes from the government. From the centre's perspective, they are charging the families a little bit to get a much larger slab of funds from the government. I suspect this is the reason this model first started, way back when childcare fees were very close to the per hour level that the government paid. However since then it's been deregulated, so some families are now paying a massive share of the fees, well beyond the average level if expenses. Also, the proportion of families who are now studying or earning casual income is much higher than it was when this all started. That's why it has now become inequitable and needs to be reviewed.

**wysiwyg** · April 23rd, 2013, 10:13 PM

I think you are probably right Marydean - alot has changed and the whole system needs a rethink and how to deal with public holidays included in that. I suspect the demand for centers to be open on public holidays is far greater now than has been in past. Isnt the government trialling alternative opening hours in some areas - I wonder if public holidays were part of that? Our centre has planning permit application in for Saturdays - and I was amazed at the opposition against Saturday openings voiced on another site.

**2CheekyMonkeys** · April 24th, 2013, 06:27 AM

I'm not sure about evening and weekend opening hours. I think it would be misused by some. Would have to make sure staff get paid properly. What about children who would then potentially be at child care 6 days s week?

**Cally** · April 24th, 2013, 07:16 AM

But isn't it better to be at childcare than out in the storeroom of mum's work with some paper and colouring in pencils? Or forked off to the grandparents who plonk them in front of the TV for the day? The reality is that there are a lot of parents who do not work 9-5, Mon-Fri and need options for public holidays/weekends. I wouldn't think there were many at all that would be there for 6 days anyway.

**LimeSlice** · April 24th, 2013, 07:37 AM

I'm not sure about evening and weekend opening hours. I think it would be misused by some. Would have to make sure staff get paid properly. What about children who would then potentially be at child care 6 days s week?

Wow.

Total lack of childcare at suitable hour is the reason I cannot work in my chosen profession, and now need to spend the next 5 years retraining to change careers. Yeah, totally, nobody should have access to care out-of-hours, because you are concerned it will be 'misused' by some. What does that even mean, anyway?

**Floweryfields** · April 24th, 2013, 07:43 AM

Marydean you are right regarding the CCB and gap differences - 9 years ago when I started at my current centre, the out of pocket expenses were minimal for all parents - for 100%ccb parents they were next to nothing. Our full day prices were about $44. Centres could easily charge families and as you say, claim the CCB and not leave them with much of an out of pocket for a public holiday.
Unfortunately the government has not continued to match the hourly rebate increase indexed every year at 1st July with the amounts centres are (rightly or wrongly) increasing their fees.
Now with higher incomes, higher fees the gaps are much greater and that does not work anymore.

**wysiwyg** · April 24th, 2013, 07:51 AM

I'm not sure about evening and weekend opening hours. I think it would be misused by some. Would have to make sure staff get paid properly. What about children who would then potentially be at child care 6 days s week?

This sort of but "what if" thinking is so prevalent in our soceity I think it leads to inaction. We need to stop thinking about the prob 1% of people who would "misuse" (although I am not sure what that is in this specific situation) and think about the benefits to 99% of the population who would use services as intended (even for 9-5 workers there could be benefits in terms of other services being available to us outside of office hours meaning don't need to take time off work). People may be able to work 3 days instead of 5 if include Saturday, some people may prefer to work weekends/long hours because that is when there other half works so means they can actually see each other and have some time as a family. If someone wants to put their children in childcare 6 days a week - so be it - childcare is a perfect environment for children. Of course staff should be paid properly - it may even suit some staff.

**2CheekyMonkeys** · April 24th, 2013, 08:32 AM

I was just being a devils advocate. I'm not necessarily against it. Just not all for it either.

**HotI** · April 24th, 2013, 08:57 AM

My partner is a shift worker with revolving shifts (days, nights, and different days each week). While this means he is also home some standard "work days", and able to care for the kids while I work, it is hard to find a employer for me that would be happy with me changing work days each week. This has made it difficult for me to work in the field in which I am educated. The alternative is to have them in care, or pay for care even on days when DH is home. A more flexible childcare system would help our family, and I would then be paying greater tax which would help society too.