What's the future for the childcare industry?

[Astrid]

I certainly believe that Childcare Centres should not be privately owned. Any profit should be put back into them. I like that the local council runs 3 of the centres in town, it helps share the load of admin costs and allows staff and children to move between centres with ease.

I do not expect any "structured" learning to be happening, more the play based/life skills learning as has already been mentioned.

I dearly wish the Childcare and Kindergarten were more integrated with the school system. At the moment it is so disjointed and I honestly feel like the kids get chopped and changed around so much as they move through the different levels. Certainly the Kinder year needs to be better combined with some childcare, as the current hours are difficult to work with. Down here only certain centres and kinders provide both services, to access one often means no continuity with the primary school that the child would be going to.

[Crystalwings]

I'm soon finishing my maternity leave after taking 8mths off and the changes the industry have seen over this time are huge. I believe that the cost of childcare will continue to go beyond the reach of normal working parents in the future if the government doesn't inject more money and incentive into funding quality services.

I also find some changes very refreshing and exciting such as the introduction of The Early Years Learning Framework. I think it is a great tool for helping to teach parents about our role in supporting children to reach their full potential. Yes we provide a nurturing environment in which to care for children but i feel that i am also paid to help develop children's skills in all aspects of their life. Good quality childcare does set out goals based on the children's interests and needs and it's up to us to educate parents about whats developmentally appropriate. I also think that it's about looking for teachable moments and dedication to following what the children want to learn about. While making balls with the dough for instance "lets make big ball and a little ball with this yellow dough" your child has just learnt about size, shape and colours etc. Documenting this shows parents how to teach children through play by role modelling. Having a drawing centre with words and letters to copy if the child is interested is another way to role model to parents how children learn when it's child directed. I agree there are alot of disillusioned staff in CC right now because there is so much change but at the end of the day CC will continue to operate because without it the country would stop. It gets under my skin also that the industry is so fragmented between different sectors defining our job. CC workers don't band together like other industries because there is so much nastyness between community based and private CC.
I send my child to a community based centre because i love the staff and they have a great play based learning program. I work in a independent private childcare centre which is equally as great and has twice the equipment is overstaffed etc. Don't just diss out a centre thats private before looking at the merits of the individual service. There was actually a study completed which said that independent private childcare did equal the quality of community based organisations.

My service has a range of qualified and unqualified staff and we balance each other out. While i might be good at programming and documentation my team mate might be great at remembering to take little Johnnie to the toilet and making sure all the nappy charts are filled out.
I think that it's a good thing to get all staff to do cert 3 but don't really agree with the early childhood teacher when we already have 3 diplomas with over 50yrs experience between us. When that teacher comes in what is she going to provide us with that we aren't already doing???

Anyway i am very passionate about this topic so i'll stop now lol

[cathie5]

I owned My own centre for 5 years and I believe that the bigger centres will end up running the sector and the small centres will close. That's the future of child care

[2CheekyMonkeys]

there is sooo much in here to reply or comment on but i will just say this...
1. many problems are because child care is a FOR profit orangisation.. money that could be going to staff (and to resources in rooms etc) is probably going elsewhere.
2. there are graduates who wont get offered or even want positions within the primary age area who will take on the role of early childhood teacher when the 2012 regs come in so i dont think there will be a problem finding staff.. the prob as always will be with finding GOOD staff.
3. i also find it offensive when child care workers are thought of as babysitters and i think there has been a step forwards with this in the form of the national curriculum EYLF. it starts with showing parents how we are educating.. that early childhood education within the 0-5 age group is often different to the way we think of education in primary years but just as important. it also starts with those in the child care industry thinking of themselves as educators and using terminology as such.

thats my 2 cents worth anyhow! :-)

[Crystalwings]

There might not be any problems recruiting graduates in the city but in regional areas it will be difficult to attract staff to LDC centres because of the pay and hours. In cities there might be a glut but here it won't be easy. There are plenty of teachers i know who are super smart but lack the warmth and empathy to work with children.

Maybe i've been sheltered but in my experience private CC doesn't have to be evil. I know of several private independent CC centres in our area with fantastic equipment, high ratios have all the latest equipment, implement EYLF etc. Please don't put them all in the same basket. Corporate CC is the problem NOT private CC and there is a difference.

Absolutely those of us in CC are educators!

[Miss E]

Maybe i've been sheltered but in my experience private CC doesn't have to be evil. I know of several private independent CC centres in our area with fantastic equipment, high ratios have all the latest equipment, implement EYLF etc. Please don't put them all in the same basket. Corporate CC is the problem NOT private CC and there is a difference!

Couldn't agree more. Our centre is privately owned and it is amazinging!

[Fleur]

Lots to read in this thread & I have only skimmed so far.

Just from the persepctive of a parent - I am less concerned with education & learning in childcare than with as previously mentioned, the warmth & caring of staff. Kids have 12 years of regimented schooling & learning (in most instances) - they don't need it form the age of 1 or whatever. I am much more interested n knowing that they are safe, and that they feel safe and cared for.

I have a friend (who I met when she was DS2's carer) who often spoke of the regimented aspect to the CC system - having to do assessments, plans, to account for each activity. Another friend left the Long Day Care system to work as a Family Day Carer
and loves that she can just sit on the floor playing with the kids if that suits them all, wthout having to justify what they are doing at any given time.

Certainly there isn't going to be a one-size-fits-all solution for this.
Since we have largely lost extended families and community support in parenting, professional childcare is a must. And not only for working parents, I might add.
There's a wider issue here to do with the way our whole society is structured. We're still so stuck in the mindset that at work we are workers, we leave our families at the door.
Fundamentally, we don't value parenting. Economically speaking, I mean. As parents we know how important it is personally, but it's important to all of us that all children have the best start possible. The lifelong ramifications are enormous - education, productivity, health and so on. Parenting isn't the only factor here, but it's a big one. And it isn't something that should be done by parents alone - there's a place for the extended family, friends, neighbours, and also childcarers, but ultimately also employers and other members of the community. We all benefit from good parenting, and suffer from a lack of it.
Families need options to sort out what is best for them, and the cost should be shared by all.

I'm curious on the educational side of things - I had never expected childcare to 'teach' DS anything. I expect a safe, caring environment in which he can play and explore. The learning is incidental to that. Is this for older children? If my son were at home with me all the time I still wouldn't be teaching him things, per se

Totally agree with all of the above.

[Astrid]

Lots to read in this thread & I have only skimmed so far.

Just from the persepctive of a parent - I am less concerned with education & learning in childcare than with as previously mentioned, the warmth & caring of staff. Kids have 12 years of regimented schooling & learning (in most instances) - they don't need it form the age of 1 or whatever. I am much more interested n knowing that they are safe, and that they feel safe and cared for.

I feel exactly the same. As a parent all the talk about "education" actually concerns me. I want my child to be cared for in a safe, loving and hopefully fun environment. If they need a cuddle they get one, there is someone to wipe their bum if they need help and of course lots of crafty and physical play. Hey, if they learn on the way, great, but if not, I am not fussed. The caring comes first.

[onthefly]

I appreciate what you guys mean when you say you don't like being referred to as babysitters, but.... that's really what I want. I want caring, interested, fun carers - babysitters even! You're another link in the human chain that cares for my child, that's important, even if it's only an ocasional thing.

[2CheekyMonkeys]

maybe then the term education needs to be redefined. in this age group, to me it is about providiing the stepping stones to learning in a more formal eduaction system such as primary. education in this age group is about building foundations for learning, fostering dispostions, developing pre literacy and numeracy skills, building self confidence, independence, helping children to make decsions and fostering positive attitudes towards themselves and others. all of these things arent happening in a sitting at tables, work sheet, memorising, disciplinarian way.. they happen through communication, interest, working together building on childrens ideas etc.. all of this is education and absolutely happens with educators that are both caring, loving, affectionate and warm. education and warmth can and should go together.

i think the previous post in regards to getting qualified educators into the country is probably pretty true, i hadnt thought of that.

in relation to the corportate child care and the private child care comment. i see what you mean but i just feel that even with private child care ultimately it is run with profits in mind and to someone elses agenda. if child care centres wanted to hire the best qualified and skilled workers and KEEP them, i think that offering a comparative wage would help. (ie.. higher than the cruddy award ) ;-)

btw, i am a parent too and i would much rather my children going to an high quality educational centre.. not merely a centre where they are placed and minded. (baring in mine what i mean when i say education)

[Astrid]

maybe then the term education needs to be redefined. in this age group, to me it is about providiing the stepping stones to learning in a more formal eduaction system such as primary. education in this age group is about building foundations for learning, fostering dispostions, developing pre literacy and numeracy skills, building self confidence, independence, helping children to make decsions and fostering positive attitudes towards themselves and others. all of these things arent happening in a sitting at tables, work sheet, memorising, disciplinarian way.. they happen through communication, interest, working together building on childrens ideas etc.. all of this is education and absolutely happens with educators that are both caring, loving, affectionate and warm. education and warmth can and should go together.

Now the way you have worded that comes across as "Educational", now I am an educated person and can appreciate that, but as a mother who wants my child to be happy and cared for whilst I work, well, it just does my head in.

If a child needs a cuddle, what goes through your head? Is it "this child need comfort right now" or do you think "a cuddle will help foster this child's confidence"? What goes through your head when you give them a paper plate, paint and glitter? is it "Hey, this is some fun and will look cool on the wall" or some education thought about fostering creativity?

I am concerned about the intent behind the action.

[Fleur]

maybe then the term education needs to be redefined. in this age group, to me it is about providiing the stepping stones to learning in a more formal eduaction system such as primary. education in this age group is about building foundations for learning, fostering dispostions, developing pre literacy and numeracy skills, building self confidence, independence, helping children to make decsions and fostering positive attitudes towards themselves and others. all of these things arent happening in a sitting at tables, work sheet, memorising, disciplinarian way.. they happen through communication, interest, working together building on childrens ideas etc.. all of this is education and absolutely happens with educators that are both caring, loving, affectionate and warm. education and warmth can and should go together.

Sorry Hollo, even with the redefined term I'm still a bit dubious about the need for my 22 month old's education... I do understand what you are saying, that they aren't all sitting like little robots in a classroom, but a lot of the things you are saying - building confidence & independence, decision making & positive atitudes - these come with any good carer, whether a parent or a paid carer, a grandparent, friend... it's the magic of young children, that they are learning so much just by being in the world. I don't see it as extra 'education' - so to me, to use that word implies an extra emphasis on learning, and as Astrid mentions, on intent - is it not enough that they just have fun & feel loved, does the intent have to be there that they are learning at the same time?

I ask that having heard (as I mentioned in my previous post) so often from CC workers, that they felt they got so lost in the paperwork & goals & assesments...when what they really wanted was to be there to care for children. It seems to me very clear that that is a clear goal in many commercial centres, it's touted as an attraction... I don't think kids that age need it.

ETA - I'm not saying that learning at this age is a bad thing. Just that I think too much emphasis can be placed on it - whereas I as a parent as much more interested in, are the carers warm, does my child feel loved & comfortable. I would take that over the education in any care situation.

WRT pay - I agree they are horrendously underpaid (like a lot of important professions ) - I'm not sure how you would measure those things that matter most to me though. It is admittedly much easier to base wages on a carer's education, something tangible that can be measured. Not sure how you would base wages on how well they love the kids?...

[2CheekyMonkeys]

i dont think anyone would think as they cuddle a child 'i am educating them to be confident while i am doing this'. that is kind of extreme.
i find it really hard to comprehend that someone would be dubious in thinking that their child is being 'educated' and thinking that the child care workers have some kind of intent towards it. the way you put 'intent' its as if there is some kind of negative intent. can you explain what it is exactly you are afraid of or what makes you uncomfortable with the word education in child care?

"these come with any good carer, whether a parent or a paid carer, a grandparent, friend... it's the magic of young children, that they are learning so much just by being in the world. I don't see it as extra 'education' - so to me, to use that word implies an extra emphasis on learning"

i guess the education or extra emphasis on learning in child care centres as opposed to that which you occurs with a grandparent, family friend etc is that child care workers are PAID to think critically about how we can best help a child to learn and develop over time. We put so much effort into making sure everything is FOR the child, benfits the child, helps the child in so many areas, we evaluate what we are doing, how we are doing it all in the interst of the child and specifically plan to encourage and develop certain areas based on what a child has shown an interest in etc.. so i guess that is the difference.

yes there is a lot of paperwork, but with any job of responsibility you need to be professional and accountable for what you are doing. There are some centres that go way over the top but again with the new curriculum that is being introduced a lot of this paperwork will be able to be reduced and streamlined and made more fun. Do your centres currently do 'learning stories?' It is a lot more fun to write out a learning story and document the learning that has occured than the old box style program. Photos are growing more increasingly popular as a documentation tool as well and it is less time consuming than the old records we were required to take years ago.

i wonder if you went behind the scenes at your childrens child care centres, ask to see the childs portfolios, or child file, or record of observation and see exactly what learning and 'education' they have actually been involved in.

at the very least this topic shows the still very wide differences of opinion in regard to the whole babysitting vs education debate in child care. i was starting to think that the gap was beginning to close but maybe i was wrong. Its good to be able to speak to parents with different views, so thanks for all your opinions.

[Fleur]

Just to clarify - I don't think there is a problem with children in childcare learning while they are there, no harm in it at all.

Just that IMO it should not be the foremost thing about childcare; at least for me, it's not why I am sending my child there. So to pay staff based on their education & how they can best educate my child, is not the most important thing for me. I would like to see centre staff employed for the job they do with the children & how they interact with them ITMS.

ETA - I haven't used the term 'babysitter' - I wouldn't think it accurate - but it shouldn't be underestimated either, the importance of leaving your children in the care of someone else. Just because you are leaving them in care and not specifically to be educated, absolutely does not place any lesser value on the job those carers do.

[Melly01]

Hollo, that is exactly what I was going to say. However, as I have been called a glorified babysitter and told I was silly for being at university for 3 years "just to get a degree in nappy changing", by people who have asked me what I do, I got a bit upset and couldn't articulate myself properly. But, I agree, so thank you for posting that!

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[Fleur]

However, as I have been called a glorified babysitter and told I was silly for being at university for 3 years "just to get a degree in nappy changing", by people who have asked me what I do, I got a bit upset and couldn't articulate myself properly. But, I agree, so thank you for posting that!

Wow, that's just plain rude - and as I said, just because I don't feel that educating my 22 month old is of as much importance at this age, doesn't mean I don't value the job her carers so. Quite the opposite. I wonder if the person who made that comment to you had children in care?

[Miss E]

i dont think anyone would think as they cuddle a child 'i am educating them to be confident while i am doing this'. that is kind of extreme.
i find it really hard to comprehend that someone would be dubious in thinking that their child is being 'educated' and thinking that the child care workers have some kind of intent towards it. the way you put 'intent' its as if there is some kind of negative intent. can you explain what it is exactly you are afraid of or what makes you uncomfortable with the word education in child care?

"these come with any good carer, whether a parent or a paid carer, a grandparent, friend... it's the magic of young children, that they are learning so much just by being in the world. I don't see it as extra 'education' - so to me, to use that word implies an extra emphasis on learning"

i guess the education or extra emphasis on learning in child care centres as opposed to that which you occurs with a grandparent, family friend etc is that child care workers are PAID to think critically about how we can best help a child to learn and develop over time. We put so much effort into making sure everything is FOR the child, benfits the child, helps the child in so many areas, we evaluate what we are doing, how we are doing it all in the interst of the child and specifically plan to encourage and develop certain areas based on what a child has shown an interest in etc.. so i guess that is the difference.

yes there is a lot of paperwork, but with any job of responsibility you need to be professional and accountable for what you are doing. There are some centres that go way over the top but again with the new curriculum that is being introduced a lot of this paperwork will be able to be reduced and streamlined and made more fun. Do your centres currently do 'learning stories?' It is a lot more fun to write out a learning story and document the learning that has occured than the old box style program. Photos are growing more increasingly popular as a documentation tool as well and it is less time consuming than the old records we were required to take years ago.

i wonder if you went behind the scenes at your childrens child care centres, ask to see the childs portfolios, or child file, or record of observation and see exactly what learning and 'education' they have actually been involved in.

at the very least this topic shows the still very wide differences of opinion in regard to the whole babysitting vs education debate in child care. i was starting to think that the gap was beginning to close but maybe i was wrong. Its good to be able to speak to parents with different views, so thanks for all your opinions.

Personally I think your approach to what you do should be commended! The things you have discussed are some of the things that I really value about our centre. To me it should be a given that every child in CC is shown love, compassion and care and are looked after in an environment that is focussed on their needs. When I first set out looking for CC that was my ultimate priority. But, since having DS in CC for almost a year now and him being at the stage he is at, I really value the 'educational' side of things to. To me CC care gives him the opportunity to participate in activities and explore interests that he probably wouldn't have been exposed to at home just yet. They're doing simple things like giving him a normal cup at lunch letting him practice with it, letting him try pouring water/milk into it himself. TBH there is no way I would've started these things at home yet, but I am thankful that they are encouraging his development (at his own pace).

Personally, I think the educational side of CC is more about lying a foundation for the future, about creating positive attitudes to learning, exploring and pursuing interests and ultimately letting a child see that at an early age their are ideas, opinions and thinking that is different to that of the family unit and that that is a good thing.

It's for these reasons that I see it as a really important part of DS's life. If I was to stop working, I would still place a lot of priority on making sure that DS still did at least one day at CC, simply because of these reasons. To me, CC is a whole lot more than a place to pass the time while mum's at work.

[Crystalwings]

At the risk of repeating myself and PP the learning or educational part becomes intuitive when you work with children. I find it sad that parents underestimate what goes in to this type of learning. It's about following YOUR children's interests and offering provisions which will extend your children and help them reach there full potential. There is no hidden agenda. Perhaps fdc or a babysitter would be a better choice if that is the care you desire.