Feeding at night waking = rewarding for waking = more night waking?

[Indadhanu]

I don't know that I 100% agree with that theory BUT I've seen it been said (typed...) on here a few times the past week or two and wondered what others think.

When Jazz wakes at night I feed her. I have tried 'ignoring' on the rare occassion just to see if she will go back to sleep and 99.99% of the time she'll progress to a cry, and then a distressed cry, thrash around the bed, and get pretty worked up about it. So i don't let her cry at night as settling her after she's worked up is harder than just feeding her while she's half asleep.

Our nights aren't as bad as they could be though, I do have to say. Most nights she'sok with just having a feed and going back to bed, she doesn't usually want to actually be UP.

Doesn't make it easier to be woken about 4 times a night to feed...

If I don't feed her then yes she wants to be up. And I know that she doesn't need to feed 3 hourly overnight anymore... heck she doesn't really feed that often during the day!

Anyway, just wondering how much validity do you think the "'reward' feeding = more waking" has?

Do you think her night waking is a 'habit'? Is feeding every time she wakes going to be problematic? I'm towards the end of tolerance on this, its really effecting me day-to-day and yes its all part of the territory but I need a good night sleep! Just one! How would I even break a habit like that without letting her cry? Should I start getting her up at night (OMG don't say that please LOL) instead of feeding? Or is that just going to create more bad habits.

MR... I know you'll have some good advice (you always do!!!!!) or even just some reassurance that its not going to turn into me bfing a 10yo back to sleep (hey, in my sleep deprived state my SIL is getting to me LOL)... ???



(... ETA ... no Shel won't do a night feed, so thats not an option. Suggesting I get out on my own and having time to myself isn't an option either. Its just not going to happen. I'm not moving her to her own room. I'm not switching her to formula or topping her up with formula. I'm not letting her cry it out. Sorry if they were your suggestions...)

[paradise lost]

Leash i am NOT sleep deprived and i had weaned DD by the time she was Jazz's age, so i write from a Gentle Parenting POV, not a BTDT POV....

Reward is a very emotive word. Is food a reward? Is a hug a reward? Is confirmation that mummy is there and loves her a reward? If it is and you want to withdraw such a reward, how do you do it? What are you rewarding FOR and why is she seeking it as such?

Babies wake to feed when they have a need to. I would say she definitely needs to feed overnight still (and some babies do so well into the 2nd year) because she DOES wake to feed. If she didn't need to she wouldn't. There is a massive difference between a baby not waking because it's not hungry and a baby not expressing hunger because it knows no-one will satsify its needs.

I know you're exhausted but i cannot stress how good a sign it is that Jaz tuns to you when she NEEDS you. I can remember weaning DD, i gave her her last feed when she was 7months to the day. She seemed so big and strong compared to the newborn she had been, and because she was the biggest kid I'D ever had, she seemed an old and sophisticated creature. Now i look back on the fact that i had to wean my little little baby. Because really, what is 7 months? Even against 3 years, which we are nearly at, it is NOTHING. She's still very much a baby, you don't need to second-guess you're parenting or your feelings. IMO in feeding Jaz when she asks, night or day, to be held close and fed, you are nurturing as you always have, not rewarding or spoiling her.

Recently DD has become suddenly incredibly shy (and i mean sitting at her grandparents house with her eyes tightly shut WHILE eating a snack they'd given her, because she was too shy to look at them - she clings so tightly to me that i i let go of her all 16kg of her stays just where she is, clinging to me like a monkey on a treetrunk!). At first i was baffled that my brave, confident little girl was suddenly so scared of meeting new people or seeing failir people that she'll say "want to stay here mummy" when i offer her an exciting outing. I have ACTUALLY had to start taking the ring sling out because my fully weaned, fully toilet trained DD sometimes needs to be wrapped in the sling and cradled like a babe and be able to bury her face in her mothers chest and hide from everything. Because even at nearly 3 she's just a baby really.

Now, none of this helps you get more sleep! Do you co-sleep? Could you? I used to feed DD in bed - i basically flopped a boob in her direction an she latched on herself and we both went back to sleep. It was FAR more restful than sitting up or any of that. i could feed her *almost* lying on my back though, because my boob flopped nicely into my armpit! I wish i had Shell's email addy though, because i have some things to say re: the lack of night feeding assistance, and one of them is that i LEFT XP for that sort of behaviour! :[

Bx

[Indadhanu]

LOL yeah we co-sleep. I does make it easier (well, until last week when she got her first two teeth and has been knawing at my boob OUCH!).

You're right... food/feeding is a right not a reward. Do babies really still need to feed that often? I guess they do if she is still feeding overnight... but why do some babies sleep through GARGH! It seems so unfair lol!

[paradise lost]

Do you know ANY adults who eat a massive amount and yet seem to burn it off through normal activities and never gain much weight? Or some who actually never seem to be eating at all but are rather padded? Babies, like people, are so indvidual in their calorific and nutritional needs.

But it's totally ok to trust her like she trusts you hun, it's totally ok to relax and trust that she will only feed when she needs to. Humans are manipulative and children absolutely learn to manipulate situations, but not in the middle of the night, not at 7 months and not over the issue of food. I definitely find it easier to trust DD in meeting the stated needs than trying to guess and second-guess every request. You're a really good mumma, and Jaz is a very lucky girl, and maybe you need to get a t-shirt to remind you of that when you're squinting with exhaustion in the mirror in the morning!

Bx

[meow]

Do you know ANY adults who eat a massive amount and yet seem to burn it off through normal activities and never gain much weight?

This is my H and now it seems to be my son. I don't really have any advice for you Leash because we are officially failing at sleep My son STILL wakes approx every 3 hours to feed overnight. Sometimes it's after 2 hours sometimes after 4. I can still count on my fingers the number of times he has slept for 5 hours or more. Sorry it's not a good news story but I wanted to let you know you are not alone.

I read the no-cry sleep solution and based on that we introduced a comfort blanket, some routine to his day and have moved our son out of our room. He slept better in his cot than our bed by about Jazz's age though so that is what works for us- I'm still a big believer in co-sleeping if you can and it works for you. Now I have a little further to walk (across the hall through 2 wide open doors) to feed him!

He is just like Jazz though... forget trying to not feed him- it's more work! I am planning on introducing a sippy cup into his cot during the day when he can see it and then trying to encourage him to drink from that overnight to quench his thirst. The plan being that eventually he may be able to find it in the dark, have a drink and go back to sleep all without waking me up.

[Willow]

Had second thoughts about this post...


ETA: although my experience is very similar to Marydean's below. It wasn't until DS was 10 months and waking randomly up to 10 times a night and NOT wanting to feed that I started resettling instead of feeding and it worked for us after a few nights. He has slept through every night since. I doubt he was ready at 7 months though. Wasn't sure that's what you wanted to hear!

[Nicambhar]

Leasha, Bella is still having a feed between 1 and 2am every single night. I tried resettling her but she knows what she wants. Now I just hear her start to stir and give her the feed straight away. She is always still pretty much asleep when she has the feed and is settled until about 5 - 6am.
I just think it's better to give it to her rather than let her get all upset cause as you said, it takes more time to resettle them after a screaming match.
I don't reckon you are setting her up with any bad habits at all, it's just that some babies sleep through early and some don't. With my other 3 kids, 2 of them were sleeping through the night by about 5 months and the other was still getting up during the night at age 1.
Not sure if any of this helps, but just let you know that you aren't alone matey.

[AnyDream]

Leasha, Jazz is still little. There is plenty of time later on when she's bigger, eating more solids during the day, and exploring more of the world, to decide to do something about night feeds.

My DD2 was nearly 10 months old, I was horrendously sleep deprived and facing a stint as a single mummy (ie no backup plan) before I started to meddle with the night feeds - even so DD would have 1 around 11 (as I was heading to bed) and I'd resettle if she got up until about 5, if she woke after that I'd give her a feed and back into bed. This coincided with deliberately feeding her more during the day (both more energy-dense solids and 1-2 extra BFeeds) to ensure she was getting enough calories as her weight had plateaued out for too long. This worked for us.

[Visitor8]

Leash she is 7 months old. Her little tummy NEED your booby milk reguarly, just because it's dark doesn't mean it changes that fact
You can't expect a good nights sleep yet. They are a rare thing to come by and not many people have babies that sleep right through.

[meow]

not many people have babies that sleep right through.

That is a good point. SOME babies sleep through very early on- but the majority are not able to sleep through till a lot older. That's just what being a baby is all about.

[briggsy's girl]

hun, i'm almost 29 and rarely sleep right through the night even now! i wake up, i have a drink, i snuggle up to DH for a cuddle (if he's home - the body pillow if he's not!) - i think at 7 months, Jazz just needs to know you're there, have a drink (if she breathes through her mouth like i do, she's possibly dry and uncomfy!) and then go back to sleep knowing she's safe!

[Indadhanu]

thanks everyone. LOL you know just what to say! I feel good when I know what i'm doing is making her feel safe and secure and loved.

[KimmyF]

Leasha, I night feed DS until he was 9months old or thereabouts, i stopped becasue he began waking 6-7 times a night and i was back at andjust couldn't function on that much sleep, but until then i was happy to night feed, in the end i had to stop cosleeping as well because i felt like it was too much temptation for DS to wake and smell me but not have me IYKWIM. We had about a week of rough nights while i changed the routine now he pretty much sleeps through from 9pm till 6am maybe waking once for a quick re wrap and dummy. i was determined just like you sound, no formula, no crying it out no matter how many people told me to, it just wasn't right for me/us.
You'll know when you're both ready to stop night feeding and then you'll feel better making the decision, until then just keep doing the great job that it sounds like you're doing.xxx