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hehe... yeah - 4hrly felt like bliss to me too! LOL. It was 2-3hrly for the first 6 or more months. It did slowly get better :) I might have to change a few things before this bub arrives tho, don't think it'll work too well having him in our room as well as the baby! Aah well, we'll see what happens.
Phew, Ryn, I thought you'd taken exception to me! I was at pains to get you on side :)
I definitely know that it's not ideal for you to be up at ridiculous times in the night with a wakeful baby, especially if DH is doing his best to wash his hands of anything to do with dealing with it. My DP gets frustrated when DS isn't having a good night, and I feel (cos everything seems so much more dramatic and hopeless at night) that he is blaming me, somehow. His excuse for not helping is that he doesn't have boobs and he can never get him to sleep anyhow (not true, by the way...he's done it before!). If he's going to be like that, I'd rather be strung out and deal with DS in a more sensitive fashion than DP would!
Baby-lead is fine, if baby isn't leading up the path to insanity and sheer exhaustion.
I've thought of something else. It might not be your thing, but it might be worth a shot. Vetiver essential oil, a drop rubbed into feet, is said to work for keeping you asleep. Valerian oil to knock you out, Vetiver to keep you asleep. And Frankincense for sweet dreams. You could use that blend in a massage oil before bed, or just the vetiver to keep baby asleep once asleep. It's a bit out there for some people. I love my oils!
ETA: DP wasn't as responsive to DS for the first 5-6 months, either, but I bided my time, cos I knew that as soon as DS became more engaging, DP would get sucked right in. He did - when they seek out daddy and take more interest in daddy, usually daddy reciprocates. I put it down to evolution. After 6 months, baby is more aware of daddy, because if daddy's just gonna take off and start another cave family, why get emotionally invested? And daddies are probably wired to think from cavetimes 'what if I go and get killed on that next bison hunt, best not to get too involved with anyone and break their hearts'...or something like that. I'm being silly now, but with a basis in evolutionary theory! DH won't be able to resist DS soon enough, Ryn :)
Hmm, worth a try - I will be walking past the homeopath and the natural pharmacy later today.
DH can get DS to go to sleep in his rocking moses basket, which is more than I can, and still will rarely do it for me. He won't even do bathtime even though he hears the fun we have.
Hmmm, getting DP enthused about swimming with DS is a work in progress - he has fun when we're there, but the ordeal to get him to the pool...!
ETA: Liz and Emma - thank goodness you two posted...sometimes I feel like I was dropped onto earth by aliens the way people I know IRL react to my parenting!
BTW, my theory is that babies are for mummies - if they were interesting to daddies, they wouldn't get as much from mummy at first, so once solids have started then they are more interesting to daddies. DH only started to get more interested just before we started solids as DS holds his arms out for cuddles as soon as he sees Daddy! And he's trying so hard to say Dada, that is going to make him super-interesting to Daddy!
I've read similar things, Ryn - that babies are biologically dependant on mummy, therefore, daddy isn't a survival need until solids, therefore probably won't get much attention or be as rewarding an interaction for daddy. It's just the way it is, so daddies shouldn't take it personally, but I guess sometimes they do. Daddies tend to prove the theory right, though, when they just up and leave to do their own thing, as if there is no child to consider...cos there effectively isn't, if they've left it all up to mummy to take care of! There are exceptions. I do know daddies who are hands on, in whatever capacity they can find for themselves, from day one. Pity DP isn't one of those exceptions!!
Wow, could have written that myself.:
If I had my way I would not spend hours trying to get Maggie to sleep, I find she does sleep better if I read her a bit more and stop trying to get her to sleep when she is really fighting it. After a few nights of stop start she begins to happily go to sleep the 1st try. DH just interferes, gives me that look that I am being weak, so I end up going back to the 2 hour battles, which just makes us all miserable. Oddly enough I got that advice from our GP (who follows Dr Sears) that if she is not going to sleep in 20 min, to stop and try again later. When we do stop it is up to her to amuse herself though, I keep fun interactions to a minimum.
Cool, Astrid! That second head I was sure I must have is quickly diminishing as we all come out of the closet ;)
Ryn, did you try some vetiver oil? How did you go overnight? Or is your overnight happening now as I type?
Well I've got 2 heads then too! Be stuffed if I was going to rock, pat, sing, dance whatever at 3am!
What bothered me the most was the sleep books. ie - Settle baby and leave the room, if baby wakes go in and pat etc etc etc. Well, I never left the room for the first step. I couldn't see the point of trying to get a baby to sleep for 2 hours - we gave it 30 mins, then would try again in another 30 mins. It did my head in and made me me like a failure so I wrote my own rules.
The point I was trying to get across the Ryn (without scaring the crap out of her!), was that sometimes there are no answers......
I made my own rules, and they suited me and that is just fine to do that.
2 headed mummies that don't pat babies and croon delightful ditties for hours at 2am - stand up and be counted....we know you're out there!
xoxoxoxoxxoo
Oh, those sodding books! "Don't pick baby up" just leads to extra distress. I can put him down awake but tired and he'll play for a few minutes then start to fuss, then cry. So I go in, calm him down, leave. He starts to cry. So I go in, calm him, put him down and can't even get out the room.
As for the time I spend getting DS to sleep - he will fall asleep in my arms within 15 minutes. Just keeping him asleep once I put him down is the hard bit, be that in his cot or in my bed. I did manage to rock him to sleep a couple of times, but once I stopped "sssh"ing and rocking he would wake up again - grr! (BTW, I know he sleeps in his chair, but I really want him to sleep in a bed, hence no chair last night.) Dr Seuss isn't the success I thought it may be, so I will try soothing music tonight - which means I can go to sleep within an hour too!
Mayaness, is there any particular way I should be using the vetiver oil? Cos i may have used it wrong.
My health visitor suggested I let him cry a bit, which I aren't going to do. Even if DS has learnt his cries will bring Mama, surely that's better than learning his cries won't bring Mama? Yes, sometimes I look at him and he's making a cry noise with a big grin on his face, so I giggle at him and he laughs back, but it wouldn't be a game if I stopped attending to him. Anyway, that's just me!
(btw, I would let DS play in the small hours if he could amuse himself. He can't, and I'm not playing with him at that time!)
ryn! der i forgot it was summer there atm , but i had to chuckle when you put it can get up to 30 degrees.... i am in queensland and if its 30 degrees in summer... then your having a good day.. it gets up to 40 or more out where i am .... but i hadnt actully thought about swaddling and summer... prob wont its too blody hot !!
oh i have seen somewhere you can get feet for the cot that rock it ... or a vibrating matress thingy...could be soothing
LOL, 30 is jumpers weather for me usually, I'm toughing it out this year.
The moses basket is on a rocker, but he has nearly outgrown it so we need to get him sleeping through without feeds now so we can move him into his own room - a large cot won't fit in my bedroom.
I understand about letting play by himself if he could - we are now at the stage where I CAN let DS amuse himself without my input. Prior to that, I would sit and read while he played around me. Now he can play if I'm not there without fretting. You WILL also reach this stage!
Vetiver can be used neat - one drop rubbed into the sole of each foot. Rubbed anywhere is beneficial, but as it has a strong earthy smell, the feet is a practical place. *just looking up my 'Calm Kids' essential oils book* : Grounding bath oil:
8 drops lavender
5 drops mandarin
1 drop vetiver
50ml dispersing bath oil
is another way to administer vetiver :)
Would DS stay asleep if he slept on your chest? I found that sleeping DS on my chest was a winner for a while, before I was able to switch back to having him lie next to me. It must have just been something he needed at the time, so I went with it till I could see he didn't really need it anymore.
I know it's killing you. It might help ease your mind a bit if you can project yourself to a time ahead when this is no longer an issue. Think of how you will feel then, grab a bit of that relief, borrow it from the future and feel it now... you know this won't be a patch on the timeline of parenting your child.
TBH, after a couple of OK nights I am feeling great, it's just my little man is soooo big that he needs his own bed! I can't even ignore his playings as he still needs my participation with toys.
He will fall off my chest. I have just put some more pics on the website - as you can see, he's almost as wide as me! When we go to bed, I will hold him next to my chest and lie down with us on our sides, him against my chest, and he still wakes. Some nights I can then BF him back to sleep, some nights not.
Ok, yeah, by 6 months DS didn't fit on very snugly either. Wasn't sure how big your bruiser was for this ;)
I know exactly what you mean about needing to participate with toy playing. As I said, we've not long left that stage.
Anyway, been thinking about you and I'm glad you're feeling better, even if it only lasts a few days (it can help refuel you for the next long haul!).
LOL Ryn. Keep that sense of humour and you'll survive anything ;):
LOL, I was thinking of our wonderful grammar post! Did think about "ain't", but figured "aren't" was a bit more fun.
I just checked out your pics - I wanna eat him for lunch!
Lordy girl - you look FABULOUS in that bikini.....
Does anyone else think its a boy thing? Just a theory, but soooo many other mums really sympathised with me about the mitchnonsleeping issue, and sooo many said their girls were good (normal lol), but their sons always gave them a hard time.
ditto - that kid is edible!!
Thanks, Lulu! I often tell DS I could eat him all up then proceed to "nibble" his feet, hands, arms... whatever is to hand. He seems to like it.
I think it is more common in boys, but there are girls out there with issues too. My sister was one - well, she was sleeping through at 8 weeks or 15 months, my mum says both in the same sentence.
No girl thing here and of the kids I know IRL, the only ones to go to sleep school are the girls.
Hey Ryn, I have been following this thread with interest - as I do all the 'non-sleep' ones as we also have a 'non-sleeper' here too. Did you find the vetiver oil helped at all? If so, I might pop down to the shops and get some. Also, funnily enough, the people I speak to say it is the girls who are the non-sleepers???? Who knows, all a bit of a mystery.
Anyway, hoping that Lieb is getting into the sleep swing of things.
Laurin :)
he is super cute!!
i also thought it was the girls that are the non sleepers, particularly true with my mothers group.... just goes to show you though, girls or boys, i guess it doesn't matter. if they ain't gunna sleep they ain't gunna sleep.
Great thread girls :)
Love the evolutionary theory Maya. I'm another two headed mummy! I don't do "pat pat pat" etc at night. Our babe just comes in with us (into our bed), almost always settles then. His bedtime is flexible too, DH is able to rock him to sleep if we both can't keep our eyes open to watch him. He begins each night in his bed and nearly always ends up in ours by about 3am. I pretty much always get to sleep between 10.30pm amd 3am which keeps me sane. Sometimes I carry him back to his cot after his feed, other times I let him stay... it's about 50/50. I'm all for flexibilty. Loved your posts Liz and I know what you mean about it being scary to tell someone that there might not be any "answers"... it's just a case of taking each night as it comes. My DD was the worst sleeper BTW. Not sure if that was due to our inexperience as parents of if it's a gender thing... i don't think it's a gender thing.
The theory that makes most sense to me is that childrens' sleep habits often are the same as the parent they are closest to genetically. My almost 4yo has been our "best" sleeper. He slept from 7pm to 7am very frequetly as a baby. He is like me: loves to sleep, has endless capacity for sleep, he is most like me genetically. My other 2 are more like my DH genetically and my DH is a night owl. he will stay on the 'pute until midnight most nights and still get up at 6am easily for work, that would kill me. DH claims he doesn't need much sleep but I think he is kidding himself... anyhow... this seems to be a common theme amongst the other families i know. it doesn't really help, but it does kinda help if you can say to your DH: "well, he has your non-sleep genes... you deal with it!" ;)
Good theory, Bath! I'm a good sleeper, DH a poor one, even now. He was sleeping through at 9 months, so only 3 left. (BTW, DH was a second child and MiL is a great mother, so not experience/mothering ability.)
The Vetivert oil... don't think it's doing anything, but will keep trying.
I tried relaxing music last night. I slept well, DS was waking up at the end of every cycle. So we had no music between 12 and 5 then Dr Seuss until we left the bedroom. However, I did find I can't judge wakings! It was 2am, I fed DS, he wanted more so I rolled over only to see it was 4am... so I'm clearly thinking he has 1 wake up when n fact it is 2! No more turning the stereo off as I see the clock that way.
However, DH saw I bought a cheapy CD player for DS's room yesterday and now won't talk to me because we can't afford things. But we can afford beers and expensive throwaway barbeques for his fishing trips, not to mention the amount he has spent on gear. Don't reply to that. just my little stress-grief for last night. Hmm, wonder if the stress affected DS?
pfft to DH! If music helps DS sleep then it is a great investment!
yeah, I love the theory Bathsheba!!! Yes, I will be putting all the blame on DH now - in fact it is has been at the back of my head for some time now as he is a hopeless sleeper and I looooove sleep.
Anyway, this sleep business sure is a work in progress!! Unsolved mystery!
Laurin :)