Diet and Weight Loss General Support #11

WTG Kell!!

You know I think it's the weather that is fairly demotivating. You may not believe it but it's freezing here...at least the sun hangs around though.

My food is appalling so we won't discuss that at this point. Though I have been researching about sugar addiction. I definitely have that. I will be dealing with that.
Stupid thing is though, I keep the sugary stuff hidden and eat it away from the kids at night. They hardly get any rubbish (though it has increased a bit lately) but my poor baby girl has just been diagnosed with a whole so bad in her first molar she may need root canal therapy. She has a hole in the other side too and possibly the upper teeth....god I feel like the crappest mother. The dentist kept going on about sweet treats and soft drink and juice...none of which they get regularly if at all....
So sorry for the ramble...just trying to get their food organised first and mine is what I can be bothered grabbing.

However I have been inspired in here. I downloaded the C25K this morning and taught myself how to use DH's ipod and the little kids and I went for a run this morning! Not sure whether it was a good omen or not though when a dingo (yes a wild one) ran across the road and path in front of me....

I've also been still at the gym and walking Darcy to/from school. Tomorrow is walk safely to school day and I actually have to drive to meet the school kids who are walking to school as a group lol. But She wants to walk with the other kids so I guess it's encouraging them too.

ZF, the gym I go to has a creche, and I get this great deal where I run the creche for one day a fortnight in exchange for free gym membership. Not sure if any other gyms do that but just thought I'd mention it. Some might?
I think the creche for a swim for you is a great idea.

Sterla you are doing so well!!! Can't wait to hear how you go in a month.

Hey ladies, hope everyone has been treating themselves well and healthy, just wanting some info about calorie counting, those using this method do you try and reach the number, or stay well under, been given 1460 per day, last three days I've had 277, 418 & 130 remaining, and each day I've been naughty and had something I shouldn't be having just because the calories were there and had these numbers left over. Should I be aiming for a lower number?


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no exercise for me for the next few weeks, on crutches (bad sprain & bit of bone chipped off ankle). So I will have to make sure that I eat very healthy.

:hug: hun, you poor thing i saw your FB status and coudln't believe it :( Take it easy.

~Kim~ that does sound great, there is a gym where the girls go swimming but i haven't looked into pricing really, it's also a little out of the way for us so unless i went say Mon when DD1 is at kinder with DD2 at creche then again on a friday it wouldn't really work KWIM.
I think once i get back into walking again we should be all good.

Sterla - well done on the 7km run... i couldn't run 1km let alone 7 :dance: Keep up the great work.

3LM - thanks for the encouragement hun, WE WILL GET THERE is right.... :hug:

AFM: jumped on the scales naked this morning and can happily report it says i'm down to 97.5kg :dance:
I think i will do a weigh in every saturday morning (and not before) before breakfast.
Didn't get to walk yesterday as DD2 isn't well, we all have colds & feel like crap, made home made spag bol last night, packed full of veg and lots of garlic and reduced the amount of pasta i would normally have with it.
Tonight is home made pizza & the footy, am thinking pumpkin & spinach pizza for me with garlic, salami & capsicum, tiny amount of cheese.

Danielle I get extra calories (for BF and being active) and tbh even though I know I should use them all with nutritious and beneficial calories I usually save up to have a treat that I want. Makes me feel less deprived.

Sopdet - oh no!! You poor thing, how on earth did you manage that? Hope you aren't in too much pain.

ZF go the garlic!

Lol... I will stink of garlic but need to get rid of this cold ;)


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hiiiiiiiiiiii!

I'm back. I've been resisting it. But I've realised today that coming back in here & admitting I've re-gained some weight is an important step in losing it again.

So I lost my 14kg last year. Got to goal weight. It was great. Really fabulous. Shopping was great. Clothes looked great. Fab.
Then lots of crap happened. And I stopped BF'ing. And sometimes nothing happened. But either way, I didn't eat well enough. And I didn't exercise enough. Turns out maintenance was harder than losing! Who knew!?!? :dunno: I've gained at least 6kg, maybe 7kg. I'm going to weigh & measure tomorrow. And get my a$$ back on track.

I've worked out that I can lose it again by DH's 40th b'day in Sept. It's so ironic, cos I was virtually the same weight last year, with about 6-7kg to go. Arrrghh. :wall:

I've learned that I'm not superhuman :doh:. I've learned that I still need to really learn a lot about myself, how I eat and what sets me off. And once again, it's my freaking waistline that's hit. 6kg up is 11cm - ouch - well over the healthy waist guidelines. Some of you would know from last year that's a huge motivator for me with high type II diabetes risk (Dad has type II, i'm really apple-shaped and I was on insulin with GD during both PG's). I've also learned I can spend a while focussing on the negative, trying like mad and then falling off the wagon.
So this time I'm not doing that. Slow & steady wins the race. I'm going to track my food for 3 days in MFP. I'm going to exercise each day. I have scheduled rewards at certain time points. I.will.do.this.

I have a free photo shoot with a friend tomorrow for my new biz. And I'm kicking myself that I didn't keep the weight off (yeah, so trying some outfits on triggered my change of heart!).

Hi to everyone - ZF, Tan, Sopdet (ouch on the ankle!), 3LM, Danielle, Sterla, ~Kim~, HOpe.

Here's to a good remainder of the weekend!

Hey belfie! Haven't seen you round for ages!

Well I went to buy a dress online last night, only to find I'm about 10cm too big for their largest size (hips and tummy)...then this morning I have put on a kilo and a half :wall: I have to stop eating so badly.
I can do this.
I will do this.
I want to do this.
Why the hell do I keep sabotaging myself? What is wrong with me?

:

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Hey belfie! Haven't seen you round for ages!

Well I went to buy a dress online last night, only to find I'm about 10cm too big for their largest size (hips and tummy)...then this morning I have put on a kilo and a half :wall: I have to stop eating so badly.
I can do this.
I will do this.
I want to do this.
Why the hell do I keep sabotaging myself? What is wrong with me?

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Kim I have asked myself these things SO many times. I have no answers though hun. All I usually come us with is I'm tired. I have no focus and willpower because I am tired. To prove my point I have had an atrocious week with sleeping for DS2 and yesterday I just couldn't hold out anymore and ended up having so much junk food. Then last night, tah-daah, he slept much more decently (ie, I got more than 1-2hours at a time out of him) and this morning I am full of energy, determination and will power. I've been for a walk, I have eaten healthily and put on a healthy dinner in the slow cooker. Dishes are washed, two loads of washing hung out and another two folded and packed away, house is tidy and I am just gaining a bit more momentum before I tackle the kids toy room and the bedrooms. It's amazing how much a decent amount of sleep will change your out look. So don't beat yourself up. You have a new baby. Plus two other kids to look after. You're pretty much on your own trying to do it all. Give yourself a break. Forgive your slip ups and know you will get there eventually. You are aware. You are intelligent and you will make it because you've done it before, know how to do it and will do it again.

I think what you've said is so true 3LM... being tired is the enemy of weight loss. It is so much harder to focus, to resist junk food, to have the motivation to exercise when you're tired. My DD is cutting an eye tooth atm and our sleep has been all over the place... I'm feeling it this evening and am craving junk food, and I can tell you already I won't be hopping on the bike tonight. But, I know from experience that I'll (most likely) feel better in the morning after some sleep - it's just a matter of getting through the rough patches as best you can.

Hi ladies can I join this group?

A little about myself, I am an extremely busy mum of a 18 month old. I work on average from 6:30 in the morning to anytime after 5:00pm.

I have an extremely supportive husband, who is the stay at home parent and domestic god and my own personal cheerleader!!

I have joined weight watches and lost 3.8 kgs in two weeks.

My biggest problem is exercise I just do not have time. I try on the weekends but it is soo damn hard.

Anyway look forward to chatting and any helpful hints that you may have ;)


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Thanks Kell and Sterla :hug: That is so true.

Frantelle :hello: Well done on the loss!!! That's awesome :D Gosh those are long hours...no wonder fitting in exercise seems hard. Could you do a half hour exercise DVD of an evening maybe?

Happy monday everyone!

Just was reading some interesting stuff about waist-hip ratio as a better predictor/measure of health than BMI, weight or waist circumference. Interestingly mine is 0.95 at present. Was over 1 last year, and at my slimmest, only got down to 0.89!

So I'm curious, does anyone else know theirs?

And my second thought. First day tracking calories on MFP again yesterday. OMG it's tight when you're not BF'ing!!! Managed one day. Kinda. I was also checking on the net and there was a fairly wide range of suggestions as to what I should be on - anywhere from 1200 - ~1400. What do others use as their guideline?

That's really interesting about the waist-hip ratio... I'll have to work mine out if I can find a tape measure...

I haven't ever counted calories (too much hard work, lol), but I can tell that breastfeeding has a definite advantage with weight loss - it doesn't make me lose weight on its own, but it certainly helps things along!

Hi ladies - sorry been slack with this thread and with weightloss. With both there has been lots of reading, but little action ;)

I am finding tiredness is a killer. When I look back as my best weight loss weeks, DD2 was sleeping well. This year I have gone up to 4 days per week for work and am noticing it. Much less me time and everything is catching up on me. It is such a killer, stops me wanting to be physical in any way, makes me to slack to cook, even if I have meal planned. I am forgetful, so leave my healthy lunch at home etc. Even whilst typing right now I just want to go to sleep.

:hug: Astrid. I hear you hun! Sleep and tiredness is a big issue for me too. When I'm tired I am the ***** from hell. I want to eat bad food because I feel bad, because it feels good (for a little while!) it tastes good, it's easy and gives me energy (again for a little while!). Even though I *know* healthy food and meals will help me more, it doesn't matter. If there's a choice between a fruit salad and a bar of chocolate, the chocolate wins, no matter that I actually do like fruit salad, alot, but making it take time and energy which I don't have! With chocolate, all I have to do is unwrap it!

Belfie, it is a big difference between calories when b'fing, and not. I struggle alot with eating a 1200 cal diet. I have tried and I'm not very good at it! I usually go for more calories, and try to exercise a bit more. Or it just means the weight comes off slower.

hey chicks!!

3LM - Its so hard isn't it. :hug: Thinking about all of this makes a difference though, even if you have some chocolate and THEN have some fruit ITMS, so you are still having something healthy?? Then you could cut out the chocolate or cut it down??

Astrid I hear you - so tired and it makes everything, eating healthy, exercising etc. that much more difficult. :hug: Im working 3 days a week and struggling big time with it. SO tired but I am also really active on 2 of those days as I am teaching phys ed. Wishing I had a pedometer to track it!

Sopdet - Ouchies on the foot - hope you are feeling better soon xoxox

Kim :hug: We can do it and we WILL do it hun. Let's all keep talking it out and working out what our triggers are and sharing ideas. I think being prepared is a big factor. If I have no easy healthy options handy for lunch and snacks I turn to cr@pola so I need to have it ready to go. Also not asking myself if I will walk/run but just going and locking it in mentally works for me, having said that I don't have to worry about dingoes - OMG!!!! Crazy hun!

Belfie - I use MFP and my cals are 1280 for my height and current weight. I went slightly over that today but have been pretty good really and could have been just on or under if I didn't just eat 2 squares of Cadbury - d@mn DH seriously. He has TWO blocks of chocolate sitting in front of me on the table. Normally between us we would eat the lot but I had 2 and that's it which is saying something for me :rofl: As for the waist to hip ratio - mine is 0.8 and says I am in a healthy range but Im really not. The weight I am carrying is lower down though, under my waist! I have a high waist and it's 86cms and my hips are big at 108. My belly looks like I am pg with number 3 and I have gross rolls. MUST lost this weight and am feeling really determined.

Went for a 3 km run yesterday - SO proud of myself, normally I do my C25K app - I turned it on and because I haven't' run for quite a while though I would start at around week 4 - started running after my warm up and didn't stop until I was nearly home which was 3 mms of jogging non stop! Felt SO awesome, sore today but I have also been teaching PE today and we are doing skipping so I joined in with the kids!! Will be doing the same tomorrow morning then organising our cross country even so will be doing the same again so exercise for tomorrow is sorted = yay!

Am stuffed and ready for bed so will chat to you all soon! Hang in there ladies!!

ETA: DH just opened a pack of chips - Pie and Sauce... Are you freaking kidding me????????

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Happy monday everyone!

Just was reading some interesting stuff about waist-hip ratio as a better predictor/measure of health than BMI, weight or waist circumference. Interestingly mine is 0.95 at present. Was over 1 last year, and at my slimmest, only got down to 0.89!

So I'm curious, does anyone else know theirs?

And my second thought. First day tracking calories on MFP again yesterday. OMG it's tight when you're not BF'ing!!! Managed one day. Kinda. I was also checking on the net and there was a fairly wide range of suggestions as to what I should be on - anywhere from 1200 - ~1400. What do others use as their guideline?

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I do, mine is .84 Jillian Michels has a fair bit about that. Should be below .80 apparantly.

FWIW - My BMI is 27.5, 67kgs at 5'1 and my waist to hip is 0.8. I need to drop at least 7 kgs which will just scrape me under a healthy BMi - was initially thinking I would be happy to be around 62 kgs but really, that is still overweight so if I head for 60 kgs it will only mean I am healthier and have a bit more of a buffer for events like Christmas etc. :rofl:

It's interesting isn't it Tan. See having seen you recently, honestly you didn't look like you had that to lose at all - are you just some magical dresser to hide it? Don't get me wrong, I know what it's like to know what you have to lose & where it is. So I don't want to undermine what you're doing, but I also thought you didn't look like you have that to lose! And I know you have the same diabetes motivation as me. And see that's where it's crazy for me. At goal weight I had a BMI of 22.5 and I still didn't reach the healthy ratio for hips/waist (it was .89 - ausgirl I honestly don't think I could get mine to 0.80!)! I guess it's cos my hips & waist are only 10cm different. Maybe if I do tonnes of squats and get huge butt muscles? bwahaha. Even now I'm carrying an extra 7cm on my hips, but 12cm on my waist... arrgh talk about bellies. I hate mine.

Tan - does MFP recommend calories somehwere? I couldn't find it.

3LM - tiredness is a shocker huh. As for eating & exercising. Aah I'd a million times rather do the workout & eat more, than just eat strictly. And they say it's better for you (blood sugars and all that - apparently the positive effects last 24 hours).. but it can be hard to fit in. Especially with kids. Especially when you're tired. I want to get better at doing more incidental activity with the kids.

Astrid - I hope you get more sleep too.

Sterla - when I was losing last year (& Bf'ing) it made a huge diffrence for me. At one stage my "diet" was supper of toast, butter, milo, in the evening and a snack of 2 sq chocolate in the day. And I was still losing .5kg a week - it was just falling off. No way could I eat like that now.

AFM I'm still just walking as I get over a foul head cold, but I think it's on the way out. Found myself MEGA wanting to eat crap tonight when my two little monkeys both refused to eat the lovely dinner I'd cooked (arrrgh) and then DH served mine with WAY more of the satay sauce than i wanted :wall:. But I have a PT session tomorrow and I very unwisely posted a pic on FB of an evil triple choc brownie that I was eating last week. And my PT is on FB. Payback is a biatch right?

:rofl: at the PT, brownies and butt muscles haha! You are gonna be worked hard hun!!

It's all on my stomach, ass and butt hun, and I do hide it with clothes but it's all under there! If I had to measure under my waist it would be closer to my hip measurement. Doesn't help that I still don't think my muscle separation has healed so it's going to take a bit of work to lose it all. I just want to feel good in myself, I know when I was 63 kgs I knew I still had a way to go but being at that weight I felt ok in photos and also felt healthier, as well as making running easier for me and if I could hover just under that I would be happy even though it's still technically overweight on my BMI.

Have to go to bed - am going cross eyed but will chat again tomorrow after work xoxox Need to convince DH somehow that I need an elliptical x trainer in the lounge room.

Well I lost a couple of inches off my hips and 1 off tummy and my ratio went up!

Am not well at the moment ladies, had a bit of a cold for a couple of days but all day yesterday and last night spent most of the time on the toilet (TMI - #2's) - just feel horrid so hopefully will rest a little today (yeah right) and then be ok for a haircut tomorrow and gippsland on the w/end.
I thought i'd jump on the scales and see if being sick made a difference.... nearly lost another kg already :( i want to loose it but not like this. :wall:
Ah well off to deal with 2 feral girls, and me feeling craptastic - what a day!

Gee, we got chatty in here last night!

ZF: Feel better soon!

I still haven't found my tape measure, so still haven't worked out my waist-hip ratio.

I was bad last night and had takeaway... my once a month takeaway. Felt pretty crappy afterwards though. Drank plenty of water and hopped on the exercise bike this morning. I'm definitely not letting one bad night ruin everything - I've come too far! I'll be going on the bike again tonight, and if the weather is okay I'll go jogging tomorrow morning. I officially registered for my local 10km fun run yesterday, so I need to make sure I keep up with my training!

OMG Sterla - am actually on my PC so read your sig. 20kg down, that is AWESOME!!! I am sooo impressed. You go girl.

Well I'm happy. Was trying to guestimate the cals burned in this morning's PT session. So texted my PT and she reckons 350-400. Woot. Just as I was thinking I'd blown my food! And interestingly her recommendation to me was to track cals for a week, and see what I lose. Then we can see what I need to sit on, to maintain a good level of weight loss. I'm back to weighing daily (I know they say you shouldn't but it seems to work for me). And I'm down 0.90 since Sun morning! Far out. And I'm drinking heaps so I don't think it's just fluid... :crossfingers:

I found my tape measure! Okay, my waist-hip ration is 0.83. It's a weird way to measure, cause by doing my waist and my hips it misses out measuring where most of my extra flab sits... So, not sure how accurate it really is?

well it measures the health issues with where your weight sits. Where would you say your problem areas are? If you're on hips/thighs then that's a lot better from a health-risk perspective. Just annoying from a jeans perspective!

My biggest problem area is my lower stomach - all this excess fat just hangs there :(. My waist is quite small, my butt and legs are quite trim, but my lower stomach is disgusting!

aaha that is horribly annoying! And yes, I agree then that the waist-hip ratio isn't picking up on it properly. How much do you want to lose to get to goal weight? I know with me last year, the last ~3kg's to goal weight made the biggest difference to my problem area (my gut, plain & simple)... so I'm wondering if that will just be last to go for you too? I also spent a bit of time wearing a waist support thingo, cos it made me almost/nearly/slightly look like I had a waist! (don't get me wrong, it made me look bigger when I wore it, but better afterwards). Huh. It did seem to make it all sit a bit "better".. maybe it needs "training" and then flesh will slowly tighten? Man I made that sound bad, but do you think it would help?

At school but just want to say I walked 4.5 kms over the course of the day at our cross country day plus skipping this morning with 3/4s so have burned over 400 cals! Had Thai for dinner last night but am having meat and steamed veg tonight! BBL!

Strlla I'm the same, mid and lower tummy is where much if my weight sits too.

I've still got another 15-20kg to lose so my stomach might look better one day. I hope so! I've never had a flat stomach really, but having kids really did it... I believe it's called an apron?

Sterla that was exactly what I was going to come in a say. Mine is 0.83 too (after I figured out how to work it out) but it totally misses the flabby bit. Granted my baby's only 3 months old but that bit....erck. And my clothes don't fit around it. Stupid bit is, under the post baby belly my core is still tight. Can't be too bad seeing as I could manage most of the core work today and many others couldn't who hadn't recently had a bub.
Had a bit of a panic today over that thread about separated muscles. Mine separated big time. Enough for the Ob to put her fist through, but no-one ever mentioned it after Holly was born. No physio, no info, nothing.
I went back to the gym at 9 weeks PP. Started core/crunches straight away. Never had an issue, but that thread made me panic. I'd know if it wasn't right, wouldn't I?

I hate to admit it, but eating better has totally improved my stamina. Last week I struggled to get through step for the fatigue not the puffed outedness. Today - no worries. I have been very good and only had 10 jelly beans today of Nate's packet. Then I put the container away. I didn't need any more.
I have also been making a very basic crumble from scratch of an evening to have as my supper, just water stewed apple/pear/blueberries and a topping of oats/flour/ bit of butter and cooked in the oven. It satisfies my sweet craving, fills the gap (the kids need to eat very early) and ups my fruit intake. I have been counting every calorie too, to keep me honest.

Go Tan! Man do the kids have to run that far?

Hope you feel better ZF

Me either Sterla. Even when i was 55kgs ringing wet.

Lol Kim - I think my only bikini wearing days were a small window when I was in high school, and I was too scared to wear one. It's okay though, it's too cold for swimming most of the year here anyway.

Uh, seriously craving junk. This dreary weather is not good. Having brussell sprout and chestnut soup for tea... hoping I stop craving junk after a decent meal. Just goes to show how hard it is to shake those old habits. 4 months in and I'm still having to fight it some days.

:hug: Sterla hang in there, I hate this cold, makes me want Cadbury 24/7.

Kim I am sure it's fine babe, bubby is still little :hug: Mine is still about 1 cm apart and JJ is 3.5 - I should probably get it looked at I guess - am worried they will say I need to get surgery and that will freak me out so will just ignore it. The kids had to run either 2 or 3km depending on their age but I had to map out both courses, check on marshals etc so spent all day walking! Turns out I burned over 500 cals by the end of the day and ate really well - BUT that d@mn Cadbury was here. :( Just ate around 4 pieces and although MFP adds my exercise cals back I really shouldn't have eaten it. Oh well back on the horse tomorrow and the stupid chocolate is gone now after DH finished it off thank goodness so no temptation.

4 pieces is still pretty good Tan.....could have been much worse. That was very restrained - well done!

Wow girls, you're all getting chatty! LOL.

ZF, I hope today is a better day for you. It's the worse when you feel like a piece of poo and you still have to deal with energetic children.

Sterla, once a month for take away is a good thing! I am trying really hard to only have it once a month. For both my waistline and my bank account. Take away out here is so expensive!! We don't do it all that often, maybe once a fortnight/week, but it's too much and it's usually just because I am feeling lazy!
Good on you for registering for your fun run. That is a goal which is always in my head, though at the moment it's not a reality where we are living. I have a friend who has done some half triathlons which I think would be an awesome personal challenge. Though right now I can't imagine ever being fit enough to do it!
I also have the terrible tummy hang. My stomach just stretched too much when I was pg (particularly with DS1 who was 4.2kg and I also had excess fluid during his pg too) and my skin isn't very stretchy. I have stretch marks from my pubic bone to my ribs and around to my sides and my tummy is never going to shrink because it's actually stretched. When I finally do reach my goal, I am going to have a tummy tuck. I can't imagine my stomach will look in proportion or look good without it.

Tan, wow! You have a great exercise day!!

Kim, you're going so well, even thinking about being healthy and exercising 9weeks pp. I could barely remember my own name at that stage with any of my kids!
I also still have a bit of muscle separation. I'm not sure if it's just because I haven't done anything in the way of exercising those muscles or if it's not going to repair at all now. It's only about 1 1/2cm or so above my belly button...I probably should look into it I guess...I also still have issues with my back/pelvis/hips from being pg. Should look into that too, lol! I would think it's probably all related in that my core muscles aren't strong so neither is my back, so neither is my core....


AFM, I am curious as to what my waist measurement is now! I will have dig out the measuring tape and check out how to do it. I don't doubt it won't be pretty!
I had a great exercise day yesterday. I walked to a friends house then back into town and around town. While it's not a big place, that was a good walk! Plus pushing my 3 1/2yr old in the pram everywhere. My only issue is I have hurt my back and today I am paying for doing so much. I am trying not to not exercise and still go walking because I have only just gotten back into it and found my mojo and stopping now will surely kill my tentative motivation.
My kids are already being ferals and I am already wanting to have cake and chocolate. Today is going to be a long one. Lucky DH is home to help or I would undoubtedly be a loony by the end of the day!

Hi to everyone I missed.

3LM - Walking is super good babe, especially pushing the pram! Hope your back is feeling better soon hun xoxox
Quick one here - just tracked my day including dinner and am 350 under my cals for the day :o and about to head out for a run! Wooot! Am so glad I am motivated and have lost around 1.2 kgs since last week, not sure what day but have been that weight for a while!!!! :clap: Very proud and just need to keep it up! Hope you have all had a great day! xoxo

Another day of struggling... This weather does not agree with me - I want sunshine!
No exercise yet, but I'm hopping on the bike tonight while I watch Glee - the music helps me keep a good rhythm.
I was mostly good with food, but it was not easy today like it usually is. I guess it's the weather? Either that or hormones are at play... I got my first AF back on DD's first birthday, so that could be it.
I'm hoping the weather is better tomorrow morning so I can go for a run.

I soooo need to be in here, but am going away for a wedding this weekend so may as well just write it off now. Will be back in on Monday :)

Welcome Fuzzywuzzy!

Sterla :hug: I definitely fluctuate depending on my mood and tiredness so that makes sense hun. You have done so well hun, so even if you have a few days of stalling a bit it will be fine because you know what you need to do ITMS.