OK thanks ladies, I added about a cup of the vinegar to the large load and the clothes smell OK. I'll see how soft they are when they're dry. I'm now doing a new load, I have epsom salts so I'll try that next. I've also got some lectric soda washing powder??????? apparently you add it to the normal washing detergent and it helps to remove the grease marks and make the water softer. Anyone heard of those????