"With Choice Comes Responsibility"

[Bathsheba]

How do you define this often quoted statement?

THIS thread recently raised the issue.

Also... in that thread I gave the example of Adam and Eve being warned that their choice to eat the Apple of Knowledge meant that there will be responsibilities that they may not like. Is there a parallel analogy in other faiths?

Do you find that people want the choice but not the responsibility? Do you struggle with any aspect in life where you feel that you have or don't have enough choice or that you have too much choice?

Personally I really struggle in the breakfast cereal aisle... (for more on that read the linked thread LOL). When given too much choice I often put in place self imposed limitations. I find I am doing that more and more in life. I also feel that as a member of an affluent Western society that the onus is on me to take my choices quite seriously. Somebody in a 3rd world country doesn't have the choice as to what breakfast cereal they eat... they are just lucky to get some! So, I dunno, maybe I should think about stuff like Food Miles etc that influence climate change... Or, when buying clothes maybe I should opt for the T-Shirt that is made under a Fair Wage scheme and costs $5 more than a cheapie T-Shirt made in India by a 6yo girl who should be at school. Know what I mean?

Take this thread in any direction you want... the above is just some suggested directions

[Bathsheba]

...of course you can also just talk about how it relates to the choices we make in the way we birth our babies

[Mummato2]

I welcome this thread because I think that regarding Child Birth that is a fairly accurate statement.

IMHO, choice does bring with it responsibility of consequence and we are now in a generation that is on the brink of watching Maternity Choices reform in a dramatic way, but are women really ready and willing to take on the responsibility over the decisions she will inevitably have to make?

I gave an example on that linked thread where a woman felt the urge to push at 7cms, was told not to, did anyway, felt intense pain, asked for the epidural, continued to push and ended up with a torn cervix. The kicker was she blamed the epidural and OB for her cervix tearing. She actually used the words "it was the cascade of intervention that followed my epidural that caused my cervix to tear"

There is no shame in asking for an epidural in childbirth. There is no shame in CHOOSING and MAKING informed decisions, there is no shame in having many birthing options available to us - but have the balls to back your decisions and take responsibility for the choice you make.

It would be the same scenario if Australia finally allowed access to ALL models of Maternity Services to every Australian woman.......a high risk woman is adamant she wants a Home Birth (let's for arguments sake say her risk is related to a hemorrhaging condition). OB strongly advises her to have a hospital birth and assisted third stage - but she demands her choice of a Home Birth and physiological third stage.......midwife supports this birth and her choice and it goes terribly wrong....

Who is at fault? Who should take responsibility for the decision?

- The woman who wants her ideal birth scenario and believes it to be a safe choice, after all she's read the pros and cons and it seemed a manageable situation. Plus, OB's are known for high intervention so she believed the advice given was to control her choice.......she'd read enough stats etc and even though she doesn't have a medical degree she considers it an informed choice?

- The OB for not taking the reins and limiting her choice knowing the danger?

OR

- The midwife who supported a woman in a high risk and obviously dangerous situation because she works within the philosophy of freedom of choice?

I ask this NOT to diminish the importance of reform for Birth Choices in Australia because it's clear that we desperately are behind the eight ball - but to evoke an honest appraisal of where the responsibility should lie WHEN we see the reform come into play.

At what point do we trust the word of the medical professionals to do the right thing and guide us to the right choice and at what point do we make these decisions ourselves?

My personal example is: in my first pregnancy I was considered high risk because of a drug I was taking for Insulin Resistance. I was induced at 38 weeks because I was considered in the same boat as a diabetic (even though the condition is NOT the same) and I was threatened with a c-section within the first hour of monitoring before the induction started.

I adamantly refused the c-section, made them put in an internal scalp clip to monitor my son's heartrate and gave birth to a healthy boy WITH NO ISSUES THEY SAID HE'D HAVE 5 hours later.

The induction in hindsight was probably unwarranted, the c-section scare was definitely unwarranted, I asked for all the drugs in the world and wound up with a beautiful epidural that lasted 5 hours after I gave birth

I accept responsibility for my decision to take the drugs. I accept responsibility for turning up for the induction that morning. I accept responsibility for declining the c-section.

I accept responsibility for my decision to Home Birth / Birth Centre birth this child that's due in 4 weeks........I accept responsibility for going against the advice of 2 OB's stressing to me that I was putting my baby in danger for not consenting to another 38 week induction.

I found a Birthing Centre, Midwife AND OB to support my decision and whatever happens it's MY decision - my birth choice was not taken away from me.

It's also in the same vain that I choose NOT to vaccinate my children (I DO NOT want this to be a pro vs against vaccination debate - it's merely a point) and take responsibility for the consequences of that decision - probably the hardest decision of my life.......

With choice comes huge responsibility.....absolutely, but who's ultimately responsible in Birth Choices?

[BrightSparkles]

I find this with SOME people who are pregnant.

We have a girl at work who is pregnant (due 3 weeks before me). The way I see it - she made the choice to keep this baby, so now instead of complaining and milking it for EVERYTHING (and when I say everything i'm really not exaggerating - things like not going to a christmas lunch put on by work in an aircon venue because "it's just too strenous ) she needs to take responsibility to her choice and take the good with the bad. Yep- having a baby is an AWESOME experience, yes - we get tired when we are pregnant, yes- the heat makes us feel 10x worse, yes - we get a sore back/tummy and anything else but as I said, you made the choice now deal with the responsibility and the consequences (good and bad) that come with this.
Yes - I know I occasionally complain about how much i'm aching, or how the heat is affecting me,but you know what - I also take responsibility for the choice i made to have a baby, suck it up and keep going.

Having a baby is a privledge not a right - but hey - thats just how i feel about it.

[Lolli]

I'm due to wash the dye out of my hair, so I'll be back later. But I was discussing this very issue with my mum yesterday- people seem to want everything in the world, but refuse to take responsibility for their own desicions, and the consequences of them. We live in a 'nanny state' which is reiforced by everyone blaming someone or something else for every little thing, and not taking ownership for anything and then often using ignorance as an excuse. I hate to say, but in this day and age ignorance can not be used an excuse for much- if you don't know the consequences of your actions, it is responsibility to research and consider them fully before you make a desicion (given, of course, that the situation allows you the time to do that).

[Nelle]

I agree that ignorance is less of a valid excuse for poor decision making these days, but inexperience I think still is. Inexperience is what causes me not to listen to people or take advice or causes me to listen to the wrong people. I think that responsibility is something that needs to be learned. Ideally it's learned as we grow, but there are areas, perhaps for all of us, where we still need to learn responsibility. And sometimes to be responsible requires discipline, which I think is also a learnt quality. And because it's a learning issue, we all learn things differently. Some can learn from the hard lesson, others respond to gentleness and patience, some learn quickly and others make mistakes again and again before they learn.

I'm a good case of this, many things I learn quickly, but because I lack discipline I also lack responsibility in some things (ask anyone who has had to wait for me). I know that it's not courteous or thoughtful to make people wait, but I still choose to meet with people, and I am chronically late.
I think that life is grey, which makes this topic so grey - there are usually many aspects to each choice. Yes, I annoy people when I'm late (and OT but I have to say I'm so blessed with friends who are patient with me, hopefully they understand that I do respect and love them and am working towards discipline and change!), but it's also good for me and my children to go out. So one irresponsible choice also is a responsible choice.

Similarly, when I buy eggs, often I buy cage eggs - now I am passionate about free range stuff, so in terms of animal rights it's an irresponsible choice, but in terms of my family budget where things can be incredibly tight, especially after Christmas, my choice is financially responsible.

I guess what I'm saying in a rambly way, is that when a choice seems irresponsible to us, it's possible we're seeing it from a different angle to the person involved. Some people may consider an elective C/S the less responsible choice, but it's possible there is another angle where the choice could be viewed as responsible.

[Mummato2]

I'm due to wash the dye out of my hair, so I'll be back later. But I was discussing this very issue with my mum yesterday- people seem to want everything in the world, but refuse to take responsibility for their own desicions, and the consequences of them. We live in a 'nanny state' which is reiforced by everyone blaming someone or something else for every little thing, and not taking ownership for anything and then often using ignorance as an excuse. I hate to say, but in this day and age ignorance can not be used an excuse for much- if you don't know the consequences of your actions, it is responsibility to research and consider them fully before you make a desicion (given, of course, that the situation allows you the time to do that).

Absolutely. I think a big part of this blame mentality comes from the ever increasing litigious country we are becoming.