Exclusive Expressers

[surprised]

Hi hun,

You've been given some great advice by the other ladies. AFM I had a handheld (superduper electric - not hand pump!) so if DS woke when I was expressing etc, I could at least walk to his room and give him a pat or a dummy. But yes there were times I had to stop and come back to it later. I never used a handsfree bra - got quite good at holding it all up with one hand, leaving the other free to surf the web LOL.

Some days you just have to focus on getting through the next expressing session, but after a while it does get a bit easier - you know your body and your baby and it's not as crazy as those early days. I got to 11 months and 1 week and was able to wean straight on to rice milk. Wasn't quite the 12 months I was aiming for, but in the end it was good enough!

Would second the idea of getting in touch with a good LC to see if you can re-establish bfeeding. Wish I could have managed it!

Hang in there hun - you're doing a fantastic job!

Also wanted to ask the other EE-ers what you did with you pump and parts once you finished? Did you have to chuck the parts or did you just give them a really good sterilise? They cost a fortune and so would rather not need to buy a new set when (if) needed again.

[Lisa B]

Thanks so much girls for your encouragement, support and sharing your experience and tips. I just cried when I read your posts of support to me (I think I'm over tired). It's hard to get that kind of support IRL when everyone just seems to be BF champs early in or quickly switching to formula if it isn't working. There isn't much advice around for those people in between and how to manage when exclusive expressing.

For those girls who saw a LC how often did you see one and how many sessions did it take to get the attachment right?

The hospital I went through has a free LC and I have had one session so far and have a further one booked this week and one the week after. I have had the confidence to try some short feeds this week but it has ended in a painful disaster as it doesn't seem to matter how many times I try to attach I get it wrong. I'm not sure if a private LC will give any more support than I get through the public system. Yes, I'm currently EE with the aim of BF but not sure if I will make it or not.

Belfie - I'm in the northern suburbs but will keep your offer in mind if I need a private LC and can't find a local one. Thanks so much for the suggestion.

[Fleur]

Lisa, I second what Belfie has said re. keeping trying. Probably my biggest regret is that I wasn't more persistent, even though I know I was at my limit - I had months (and the odd moment still) of thinking we could have done it if I'd tried harder. Persisting with it will be worth it even just for your own peace of mind down the track.

Surprised, I gave away my pump parts but I would think they will be fine for you to store & use again, I would just sterilise them before you use them next time? My pump was dead, i finished up on a hire pump, so that went back to the chemist

[belfie]

I just cried when I read your posts of support to me (I think I'm over tired). It's hard to get that kind of support IRL when everyone just seems to be BF champs early in or quickly switching to formula if it isn't working. There isn't much advice around for those people in between and how to manage when exclusive expressing.

Overtired... hmm but you have a new baby... You're sitting back, relaxed, refreshed, sipping margeritas right? Ah no that's right i'm remembering the wrong book! I shouldn't be cheeky really - but honestly be kind to yourself. It is SUCH hard work what you're doing. I'm so glad to hear the support is helping, you deserve it. Have a good cry, sometimes it helps.

And yes I remember well feeling like I was neither fish nor foul. The BF'ers didn't understand why I couldn't BF. And the FF'ers didn't understand why I was so obsessed about EBM. I felt like this odd little fish who wasn't quite successful really but just incredibly pig-headed & stubborn - and maybe that just made me stupid rather than smart (this was me in my over-worked, under-rested state of course!).

Fleur - I'm glad you've reiterated what i said (you know you're a star right?). It's the worst feeling looking back and wondering if you could have done more. I used to feel like that, but then when I told my story and when I went back and did another ABA class - well it all came back to me and validated that it just hadn't worked for us. So saying, if I had my time again, I still know there was more that I could have tried. So I would congratulate myself on my super-human effort but know now that i would turn EVERY POSSIBLE STONE I COULD. I guess it's about trying, trying and trying again - but also being able to forgive yourself if it doesn't work. And to accept when you have reached your own personal limit - which only you can know. So just ask yourself - what can I do? what do i need? I'm intrigued by your "every time I attach I get it wrong". Is it that baby just can't feed? Or it is damaging your nipples? (and hurting insanely to boot!). As for more support from private versus public LC, well I haven't tried public so I can't answer all that well... but my LC for the birth of my DD was incredibly supportive - available by phone at almost ANY time, visited whenever i needed it. I think we had about 5-6 sessions? Including 1 before birth. She came in day 1, day 3, day 5 ,then again at home a few times. It was expensive (but hey, cheaper than FF!). She was also very naughty and really did undercharge me. I don't think I can ever thank her enough, because I know without her we could not have done it. How can I place a value on this? I will treasure what she helped me to do for the rest of my life.

When I saw an LC with my DS (who did not feed well) we had maybe 2-3 sessions and then she agreed that it wasn't working & suggested I try once a day to "keep our hand in" in the hopes it would improve. In hindsight I would have tried another LC... or a lactation clinic day stay. I was so exhausted, frazzled, dispirited & discouraged that the thought of trying to attach him once a day was just horrifying - an exercise in stress & screaming. So one of my learnings would have been to try find a way for us both to become calmer before we tried - but at the time I didn't know how to get there (and his mouth-breathing was really not helping). Hmm have I side-tracked too much? Anyway, just thought I'd fill you in on my history with LC's! I also reallise that my second LC had a very calming effect on me. She just always made me feel I could do it. The first LC is perfectly good (and IBCLC qualified) but just didn't help me in that way. So I think I didn't realise how important it is to get somone you can connect with, and who will understand you and how you work and how to help you.

Surprised - I kept my parts, re-sterilised them and have used them again this time (just not as much!).

[Lisa B]

Thanks ladies. I will keep trying and seeking help. I get a bit resentful about being attached to the pump but would rather do that at this stage than give him no breast milk.

Belfie - thanks for your humour. Every time I get bub on the breast I get pain and it's hard to know when I begin the feed if it's because of my sensitive nipples or if I've got the attachment incorrect. It probably is a combo of both. Sometimes I pull him off and try again and other times I persist thinking it's just me being really sensitive. When I pull him off, line him up differently, try and aim the nipple for the upper palate I still get the same outcome each time (when the LC put him on last week she could just get him on, so I know it's possible to get him on). I now have some marks on my areola which I think are grazes (but I'm not expert on grazes). I saw the maternal nurse yesterday and she told me to give my nipples a break until see the LC next so I don't do further damage. I was going to try a few more attempts but think I need to repair to give the LC appointment the best shot. The nurse also told me about a breast feeding service through my council so I will also try this out.

[Mildez]

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone can offer me some hints with when to express.

DD (2weeks old) is not thrieving on the boob. At this stage its not confirmed what the problem is but basically her suck is very weak and she doesn't drain milk from me. She attaches beautifully but sucks on me like I am a dummy. She doesn't have those long drawing sucks with the audiable swollowing. We are currently waiting on a paed review and scan of her heart as the concern is she has a cardiac condition which is tiring her out so although she demands to be fed once she gets on she appears to be sucking but is not actually getting anything. This has lead to me usually massive supply dwindling to almost nothing. DD is still 140grams below her birthweight and if she hasn't gained by tomorrow she is been admitted to paeds for further tests. Trying hard to prevent that due to the risk of germs, they will want to put an NGT in etc.

Anyway although Im not exclusively expressing (as I'm hoping to get her on me full time eventually) I express with every feed usually. The problem I have is say I express at 7am this morning, DD woke at 9am (had EMB and boob for about an hour) so I expressed again at 1030. She then woke at 12 and had breast and EBM then. I don't know how I can express every 3-4hrs when I'm demand feeding her and she doesn't usually go the 3-4hrs before she wakes for more. Expressing everytime she is due to be fed seems extreme and I wouldn't get much but it seems silly to feed her and express, then she wakes and I feed her, then express 1-2hrs after that. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am also currently trying to increase my supply. 48hrs ago I was only able to express 15mls at a time and now 48hrs later I can get out about 60-70mls so no where near as much as I want but a huge improvement from when I first started expressing. I'm also on motilium.

Also I feel a let down every hr or so. It feels like this is when I should express but if I've only expressed an hour earlier obviously I shouldn't go express again so soon. What does everyone else do about this? Just ignore it as I do have a letdown shortly after I start expressing when I do. What I am currently doing just seems so disorganised and wasting alot of time. 50% of my daytime hours are taken up BF or expressing but I'm determined to get my supply back and I want to keep DD on the breast so if she is able to start sucking effectively one day I can reduce the EBM (which is given in a squeezy bottle as she can't drink that effectively either without help) and let her get more from me. She seems to love the boob over the bottle despite her loosing a substancial amount of weight. Weigh in is tomorrow and FX she is up a minimum of 50grams.

[CeCe]

Hi Mildez,

In the early weeks, DS had issues with weight gain, jaundice and attaching. I was told by the couple of midwifes looking after me in those weeks to feed DS every two hours due to his jaundice and to express the same to build up/keep my supply. It was very tiring and there were nights I'd set my alarm for the two hour intervals only to sleep through it and feel so guilty about failing. I guess at this stage, given you want to keep up your supply I would certainly express after each feed. That's what I did those times I tried DS on the breast first (though it would result in him needing a top up). It does seem like you are spending half you days trying to attach and/or feed your child and the other half expressing.

Do you have a double pump? That can lessen the time spent pumping. I also found fenugreek great in helping my supply, however given expressing is not as effective as getting the milk out as a baby, I'd say you are doing great with your amounts.

Good luck with the appointment and weigh in tomorrow.

[Lisa B]

Hi Mildez,

I'm pretty much EE at the moment but trying to sort out attachment issues. DS is 5 weeks old and I have been doing attempted BF and ending in EBM bottles and expressing at every feed for 5 weeks.

If it was me I would try and express 7-8 times a day and time these after feeds. I probably wouldn't be aiming to do it after every short feed as it is already so time consuming. I was told that expressing a minimum of 8 times a day every 3 or so hours was what I needed to do to maintain supply. Sometimes I only do 7. Getting 60-70mls at 2 weeks should be okay. I think I was probably getting a little less than this at 2 weeks and in the first 2 weeks did some FF when i didn't have the milk. Now at 5 weeks I get between 80 - 120mls every 3 hours so it has built up naturally through expressing about 7-8 times a day. My freezer is now overflowing with milk. The LCs I see have said that my supply is fine.

Perhaps monitor how your breast are feeling and if they can't wait until the 3-4 hour mark maybe express a little off to get comfy and to avoid mastitis (happened to me when I went 5 hours one night).

50% of my time or less now is spent on the feed cycle and it is exhausting. I am slowly refining things and getting more efficient. The things that have made a difference to my time and organisation are preparing the EBM bottle prior to attempting the BF, whilst attempting to BF have the bottle heating at my feet then when the BF fails hook up to the pump (double pump supported by my mat bra which I do up around the pump funnel so I can be hands free) and get the bottle and feed DS on the end of my knees. This had reduced my time and DS tears whilst waiting for the bottle.

Good luck with your DD weight, heart and feeding. I admire anyone who is on the express cycle as I know how hard it is.

[Fleur]

Hi Mildez,
I can't see any way around it other than expressing after, or between feeds; if it was me, especially trying to increase supply I would be doing it between feeds, even if it means you're feeding or expressing every hour and a half - short term it's a major hassle, but long term if it picks up your supply & keeps her on the breast it will be worth it.

I have a supply line if that would be helpful to you to supplement her feeds at the breast - it was one thing I tried with Pie & didn't work - it's been used maybe three times. PM me if you're interested.
x

[brookenlachie]

My son is 6mths old and I have been expressing the entire time. He has a heart condition so he's not allowed to breast feed as it uses up more energy than bottle feeding and initially he was fluid restricted.

I'm hoping to take 5 EBM feeds to 3 EBM and 2 formula feeds over the coming month/s. His condition is extremely time consuming, as it is, so I'm hoping to get some hours back in my day so i can at least get some house work done.

However making the switch is proving almost impossible. The most he's ever taken from a formula bottle is 40mls and he then refuses to take any feeds for some time after.

I'm looking for any tips, or advice on the best way to do this. Are there any formulas that babies like better? Times of he day that are better for weaning? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

I would also like to say to every long term expresser, WELL DONE! I think people underestimate how time consuming and exhausting it can be, so I think you all deserve some acknowledgement for what you're giving your baby. Yay you!

[Fleur]

Hi brookenlachie, Welcome

I had the same problem when I weaning Pie (we weaned onto cow's milk as she was older) - she had tasted it before but absolutely refused to drink it from a bottle.

I ended up mixing EBM with cows milk & gradually increasing the amount of cow's milk (in your case it would be formula). I think we started with about 20ml of cow's milk in 180ml of EBM. After a week or so I doubled the cow's milk, so it was more like 40ml cows milk & 150 - 160ml EBM. From there it was a very quick transition to complete cow's milk, I just kept increasing the ration & she ended up weaning much quicker than I thought she would.

Hope that helps, might be something to try. Good luck & congratulations on 6 mths of EE, that's a huge achievement

[Mildez]

brookenlachie I too thought I'd mix the two together and gradually increase the formula content as your son gets use to the taste.

Thankyou Fleur, Lisa and CeCe for your advice. This expressing really isn't going well. I only got 30mls out at 2am it took 40minutes. I was heartbroken. I was happier when the next time I got 90mls my best so far and i'm currently expressing away now. My (.Y.) are getting so sore. Only got 3hrs to wait until I see if my efforts has made a difference. FX they have. I think my biggest problem is I am using a tommee tippee hand pump which is useless and I'm sure causing my discomfort (its the breast not the nipple that hurts) I went all over town yesterday looking for a good pump but locally there is only the Avent hand pump or tommee tippee electric. I'm of to the last 2 chemists today and target and if they dont have a decent one I'll be ordering one onling this evening but because of where I live it will be a week until it actually arrives. The thought of using this one another week is torture. I've borrowed an avent hand pump and its crappy also. It doesn't hurt as much but it gets alot less out.

Fleur thatnks for the offer of the supply line. I was comsidering giving that a go if it meant J is still on the boob (I'm worried about her getting confused between the bottle and breast) so far so good but. She drinks much better from the bottle and seems so happy to get back to the boob. I think its a dummy thing. Her suck does seem a little better since she is having the bottle with every feed.

brookenlachie that is the concern with J is she has a heart condition (VSD) We are currently waiting on a scan to see where to from now. They don't seem to feel its urgent but which is a concern. She apparently is not feeding because she tires so quickly but hey who cares apparently. She can wait a few weeks. So of course I'm freaking out about her little ticker so she has a monitor on to sleep now. Since she is more hydrated now she does seem to be more alert then she was for the past week and a half.

[Mildez]

Just thought I'd share my first expressing woohoo. I have just put my first bottle in the freezer I'm so excited. Hopefully when I get a new pump the stock pile increases very quickly.

[brookenlachie]

Mildez: Great news re:expressing. I know it suck, especially in the early days, but you'll get used to it. As for you child's heart condition, i hope everything will be ok, if the doctors are not worried, you shouldn't be. My son has a a serious heart disease and we pend our time around a heck of a lot of doctors, if they're concerned you'll know about it!

Lachlan is currently staging protest my not taking the bottle AT ALL! we tried a new formula Holle, he seems to be digesting it well (no cramps or wind) but now he won't even have EBM.Thank god we have a feeding tube in.

Fluer: He already has mixed feeds with EBM and formula, but still not taking straight formula feeds. So frustrating.

Best of luck with everything and if you need any further advice on heart or expressing stuff feel free to PM me x

[melbel]

mildez...you could try the ABA. When my pump died I managed to get a hire pump through the local branch just down the road here by ringing the central number. they have local organisers in most towns that have hire pumps....it was just a lady's house I went to in order to get it at a few hours notice. That might tide you over till you can get one online....it kept me going until I managed to buy one from the ABA retail wesbite.....mothersdirect I think it is called.....if you join the ABA you get a discount in the retail store and it saved me a bit of dosh that way.

And yes it does suck espesh in those first few weeks when you just have to try not think further ahead than the next session otherwise it does your head in!! But it does get easier, you do get into a routine and even able to plan outings and stuff...if you get a good pump like the freestyle you can even go out and take it with you.....I lost count of the number of times I pumped in the car!!

[Lisa B]

Hi ladies,

I'm 7 weeks into expressing as the primary method of feeding and attempting to BF at most feeds. I'm coming to the conclusion after seeing LC after LC and an Osteo that expressing is going to be the major way of feeding DS. I feel really guilty and sad about not being able to BF because I couldn't get past nipple pain in the first week and now DS has breast refusal or nipple confusion (depending on who you ask).

I have a few questions to help me organise my thinking of expressing for at least the next few months.

1. I have been expressing about 7-8 times a day which includes 1-2 overnight expresses. My supply is good. I make more than enough for DS. I have had a few bouts of blocked ducts which have resolved themselves. When do you cut back on the overnight expresses and how do you do it so your breast remain comfortable? At the moment I wake DS when I'm expressing to give an EBM bottle even if he doesn't wake himself so I don't have to get back up potentially an hour later when he wakes himself. I"m therefore not sure how long he would go between feeds if left to his own devices.

2. Expressing when you are out. Has anyone tried driving and expressing? Any tips if you have. I"m not sure if it is wise or possible but was curious about the possibility to be time efficient. I have only done it as a passenger so far. When and where do you express when you are out? Do you just excuse yourself for 30 minutes and use a private space?

Thanks for you tips. I have found them to be very helpful to date. In fact I wouldn't be providing EBM without the support from this thread. Sometimes it's just reading your accounts rather than posting my own issues.

[belfie]

Lisa B - firstly, huge congrats for what you're doing you're doing an awesome job. In answer to your questions.
1. I think I cut out the overnight expresses once DS started sleeping through. The first few times you can wake feeling full to bursting, but then your supply adjusts. The other option would be to try not waking him and doing a "shorter" night for yourself... i.e. rather than expressing in the middle of the night at 4 hours, push it out to 6 hours... then maybe 7-8. And if he happens to wake at those times then feed him too. The other option is to just let him sleep and see if he naturally wakes after a slightly longer sleep?

2. I didn't ever try driving and expressing, and in retrospect I probably limited myself too much cos I was forever making sure i could be somewhere to express (whether at my place or IL's place). And yes I did just excuse myself if I was elsewhere & had to express. I nearly had an embarrassing moment one Xmas when my FIL decided to show my SIL's father around (not a man I knew well) and marched into the bedroom where I was expressing. I wasn't bothered about FIL (he'd seen me express a million times) but the other fella... nuh uh! Luckily FIL twigged very quickly and backed out quick smart.

Re the nipple confusion or breast refusal, aaah I got that comment too. Good on you for trying to keep BF'ing. I think that was my biggest mistake... feeling at 2.5 months that we were done trying BF. I think I still could have kept trying BF, and just lots of nice skin-to-skin closeness, baths etc. You never know if once he's a bit older. And you know what, if he still doesn't want a bar of it, at least you'll know you'd given him the opportunity in a nice gentle stress-free way. That's one of the nice things about expressing, it takes the pressure off in terms of getting milk into them, but allows you to still try BF.

[Lisa B]

Thanks Belfie. I think I will give the overnight routine another month and then look at trying to stretch the feeds out a bit more. DS is not drinking as much at the moment so I will keep up the frequency for a bit longer.

It is hard to be home each time i"m due to express particularly when visiting friends and relatives who live in the country or on the other side of the city. I'm trying to juggle 2 parties and an express Saturday night!

I think trying for 2.5 months is a good innings as the feed cycle can be very exhausting when still attempting to attach. I think I will try for 3 months before evaluating whether I should continue to attempt to attach DS. I agree the fall back position of providing EBM is much less stress free on DS. One LC told me to cut out the top up bottles and I did try for 1/2 a day and DS was still so hungry and it was a battle to keep him on the breast. I went back to my usual routine of attempting the latch and then offering top ups. She then told me that it was up to me if I wanted to make it with BF. I do want to make it but not at the expense of having a hungry stressed baby. It just doesn't seem right to me to put that stress on DS.