Do you smack??

Wow that's a pretty intense solution Skye! Would he consider going to see a counsellor to give him some tips on how to not take anger/frustration out on others? If your daughter's going to his place, and they're very much like each other, they'd be in each others pockets then with no other people to distract them.

Would a father/daughter date work? My dad took us out on dates, and it was great. We felt really special. Also they can't yell at each other (well, they're less likely to) if they're out in public.

Skye, I'm not in your shoes, but I think that having her father move out might make your daughter more insecure about the people who love her. I honestly don't think that will help. Nelle has some good suggestions, I think - try some family/couple's counselling, and some father-daughter dates. (Some mummy-daddy dates are always nice too. ;))
Hope all goes well for you honey. All the best! :hug:

Skye, obviously you know your family best, but I would think that that's a solution that could have devastating consequences. For all of you. Nelle's idea of some specific father/daughter time sounds good. Maybe you could try something less drastic like that to start with. And yes, if your DH is really struggling with it that much, then counselling sounds like something to look at.

I hate not to sound supportive, but I really think that your DH moving out could really backfire.

Smaking is a very personal thing and i dont think that anyone should be looked down on, or made to feel like a bad person because they choose this as a form of punishment...

I think smacking has its place...
I also think that there are other ways of discipline that should be tried first.

Skye, your situation is different, Jaz is not like other children and what would normally stop a child doesnt really affect her... i do feel for you hun, you are doing a great job :hug:

the thing that we need to ask ourselves BEFORE we raise a hand to our children is - why are we smacking? Is it because we are angry? if so - dont smack, remove the child from you and calm down and then think of how to apprach.

I have spoken to my Mum about this, i was smacked as a child and probably was very warrented at times... there was one occasion that i rememeber being really smacked hard and it really hurt (turned over her knee and smacked on the bum with a hand) - Dad was travelling with work yet again and my sister and i had been sh*ts for days and days, this particular day i tied my sister to the washing line and let her there - it was innocent we were laying cowboys and indians and i caught her - but the rope was round her neck... anyway Mum lost it and i bore the brunt of her anger... she never smacked us after this day

I hope the psych. can help with ways to make it nicer for your whole family

I know. I agree with all of you. I just feel like if he's in the house it's impossible, but he has just had a month without work. Maybe now that he's back at work & out of the house through the day it'll get easier.
Plus the dog just got Jaz's kitten, so I really don't think we'll go there. The poor kids heartbroken.
I dunno what to do. It's laying at the back door. I closed the door so she can't see it, but I don't think I can move it. I'm a sook when it comes to that sort of stuff.

OH no! how horrid, im a sook too - we have 2 mice in our pantry that i cant bare to kill (so its now the shelf with all the tinned stuff on... DH will kill them soon.

Can Anth move it?

you are right, maybe with him out of the house more things will be a little better - for them both, he possibly loose his temper so quickly. :hug:

I think the dog took it away. Anth's at work. I just hope the kids don't find it when they go out to play.

hopefully it gets buried :(

Here's Pinky's article on the main site if you haven't posted it already!!!

To Smack or Not To Smack

btw. I don't smack.

I find smacking hugely distressing. The fact that there is a segment of our community for which the use of physical punishment is condoned and legal nearly makes me cry and makes my heart sink every time I think about it. No, I don't smack.

Skye i am hearing how desperate you are, but think very carefully about what you're proposing. Are you breaking up your marriage?

If things are very tough at home this can feel like a reasonable solution, and it really might be the BEST solution, if you feel the two of you are not working anymore, but you need to be sure of what you're doing and honest about why. If DH moves out to "help things calm down with Jaz" she will grow up, and her siblings will grow up, thinking it is all her fault that mum and dad split up. She'll never be able to cope with that without being terribly hurt and damaged.

Children need to feel they CANNOT break their family. That's what security is. Security says "i am here, no matter what". It doesn't mean you're all laughing together all the time - the toughest times usually happen within families, but it does mean you stick together whatever happens.

I'm a single mum, so i'm not going to tell you that you mustn't end your relationship if it is very unhappy, but please don't even in your mind, make it about Jaz, she's too wee to even grasp that, it's a massive responsibility which isn't hers. Seeing how XP was around DD (she was tiny and he was utterly useless and wouldn't help me with her and was selfish and mean - things which ALL passed but which i left him over long before they did pass) was the straw that broke the camel's back. But i left him because of ME, you know? Because i didn't like what i saw in terms of how capable he was of disregarding me when i was weak, vulnerable. Not because of her.

Perhaps an action plan is required here, so you have something you can SEE you're moving towards. You and DH are the nucleus of your family, and both of you would benefit from counselling - you to destress and strategise, him to work out why his temper is like it is and learn to control it. Then you could both do with marriage counselling, so you can get it together again and be a solid foundation or decide to split and be a solid foundation (the foundation of XP and I is WAY more solid now we don't spend every day fighting). Once you have decided together how you're family will look (i.e. if you stay together or split up) you could try Triple P or similar to get fresh tactics on raising the girls. Overlaying all of that Jaz would probably benefit from talking to someone too.

I feel for you, it must feel like a giant mountain to climb. :hug: But it's worth it hun, it sounds so dark down in that valley. When you get just a little way up the slopes of the foothills, you'll get to see the sunshine more.

Loves

Bx

Skye, I agree with Bec, if YOU are not happy in your relationship, then I would never be anything but supportive of your decision.

BUT, it sounds to me (this is totally how I've read your post, correct me if I'm wrong) that you and your DH have made this decision purely so that you can discipline Jaz more effectively (without your DH interfering). You may find that it's something that works for you. But the effects of this could affect Jaz quite negatively, (and your other children also) making the 'discipline issues even tougher.

Again, I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I really think you should think this through very carefully, and speak to a professional about it, before going ahead. I'm really worried about the consequences for all of you if it's not carefully planned.

:hug: we're all here for you.

bjrose, this reminds me a bit of a situation where I heard a psychologist tell a family that the child that was acting out the most was the 'squeaky wheel' in the family, but that the problems were with the entire family, and particularly the parents. I hope I'm not barking up the wrong tree, but it sounded like a pretty extreme reaction to have DH move out. If you guys are having problems then it's likely that a sensitive child like Jaz is picking up on this and (unknowingly) acting out in response to the tension.

But if there isn't a serious problem between you and your DH then it's probably only going to shake her world, so I agree with the girls above. Your DH could probably do with some support in learning to deal with his daughter.

Hi guys. Dh & I are NOT seperating. We were never planning on it. We just thought - or I thought it might help if he wasn't around as much, coz he is doing nothing to help at all.

I am trying to get him to come to the psycologist, but he thinks she just needs more 'disipline'. I don't agree. He thinks coz she's like him to do what his mum did. Flog her. I can't. He has smacked her what I think is too hard in the past & I won't let him do it any more - I didn't like it then either - but he thinks thats what she needs.

He hasn't done it for a while. He is trying really hard there. But his unwillingness to come to the psycologist does get to me.

We are supposed to ignore her & everything she does unless there's a chance someone will get hurt. If there is a chance someone will get hurt, ask her very calmy to stop whatever she's doing. If I have to say it 3 times, then put her in time out. It's hard to do. Really hard, but I am trying. DH can't ignore it. He thinks since she knows its wrong - & she usually does - that she should get in to trouble. Not much help.

Perhaps a psychologist is a bit confronting for your DH (kinda like 'you have a problem' when he doesn't think he does). Perhaps Bec's suggestion of a parenting program might be better suited. If you could possibly go along with him (or find him a 'blokes only' class so you don't have to get a babysitter) this would be an easier path. Relationships Australia run these types of courses regularly, I'm not sure if any are near you, but maybe it wouldn't hurt to check their website Relationships Australia — Building Better Relationships. If they don't, try calling them anyway and they may be able to redirect you to another organisation that does so in your area. Uniting Care also runs a lot of these types of courses. Or her school might be able to help you out with contacts.

Not sure if that's any help, but good luck anyway...

Hi there, I know I am weighing in late Skye but have been following along.
I really think a positive parenting program would really help.
I am just wondering where you got the 'ignore everything she does' advice.
Children need attention and guidance through all of the things they try - whether we think the behaviour is 'good' or 'bad'. They are really just testing and learning about their environment and everything they come across.
A PPP program is less confronting then going to a psychologist. But I definitely think you need some good, logical and positive guidance by someone who can help with your particular situation.
Good luck!

The ignoring is for when she's doing something wrong. We are supposed to do it for three weeks til we have a video conference with the head of psycology at Westmead to see if she's got ODD. She still needs positive attention, but right now we think she might be doing the wrong thing coz she wants our attention & that's the only way she can guarantee she's going to get it. By doing the wrong thing.
So more positive & no negative at all. It feels like mission impossible, but I'm trying really hard. Not really succeeding yet, but trying.

Skye - would just like to jump in and say good on you for putting so much effort into sorting this out. *hugs*

I'm a little confused about the ignoring bit. I would have thought no negative would just mean not giving a reaction to the behaviour. Still dealing with it but not giving a reaction or the attention that it's seeking. I dunno, maybe that's easier said than done. But the term ignore has quite a cold, isolating, feel to it, which imo wouldn't be a nice feeling for her. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you've been told to do. ?

I thought that too, but the psycologist said to just ignore it.I dunno. I'm trying my best.

:hug: Hugs Skye. With the smacking thing, could you perhaps try and get through to your dh by saying that yeah, maybe he was smacked but each child needs different discipline and what was appropriate for him (whether it was or wasn't doesn't matter for the sake of this argument) won't necessarily be appropriate for her - and in fact, because she's a girl, she might respond better to a chat and attention (what girl doesn't like attention? In fact, what kid doesn't like attention from their parents?).

The moment I heard her kitten was gone (poor lass), I thought - can your dh take her to look for a new kitten? I think that might speak volumes to her - that he's seen her distress, that he cares that she's sad, that he's happy to spend his time just on her to try to make her feel better.

(Also, if he agrees to try make an effort with her, maybe a chat to her wouldn't be a bad idea - like, dad can be a bit awkward with his love because of how he was brought up, but he's really going to try, just letting you know so you can be patient with him? If you don't think that will be too much for her.)

Anyway, all the best again working things out. :) (And remember what worked, because I'm sure I'll be back for advice when my kiddies get older. :P)