FF is not a crime

"clearing up a misconception is deemed to be judging, whereas most times it is not done to be so." (Shannon)

Precisely :) And unfortunately i have read several times here in BB where women have been convinced that artificial milk is better than what their own bodies could make. They have said right here in BB that there "are more ingredients in formula" so that's why they use it. How incredible is that??? With all the information in here!

I'm sorry I have stood too long on my soap box but I guess it's because I have spent so much time in here and read so many misconceptions that I have just decided to have a shot at sorting it out. I really don't want to make anyone feel inadequate. However remaining silent and allowing women to continue beleiving things that are not true is not doing them any favours. I have never and will never say anything to a woman IRL unless she asks for it... but it's different in here... it is easier to try to tactfully say what is on your mind, doesn't mean I'm going to start taking my message to the streets :)

My sister was told by my mum - who FF all of us - that she had 'blind' nipples and therefore couldn't BF. My sister FFed all her three children for this reason. It wasn't until I visited her after her last child was born that I noticed that she'd leaked all over her T-shirt. I told her then that she couldn't possibly have blind nipples if she was leaking, but no one ever encouraged her to try to BF even (her first two kids were born in Singapore) She always assumed she couldn't BF, and she got no support from those closest to her nor was she made to feel like BFing was an option or desired even. In fact my mother has made numerous comments to me that my milk wasn't sufficient to nourish Charlie, and my own father told me it was time to 'put Charlie on the bottle' when he was 6 months as he was 'getting to old to feed from the breast'. It's stuff like that that makes me feel like we need pro-BFing information out there all the time. I agree that esp in Australia, most women are pro-BFing, FF when they cannot BF and know that BM is best for baby, but that only came about from education. But it's not only mums who need the correct information, it's the general public that needs it too.

Ali - I think you do have a point there. I know women who chose to FF just because they did not want to breastfeed (thats fine with me) but they still feel like they need to make an excuse for it, because it is not very socially acceptable for a woman to say she did/does not want to breast feed. For myself, I don't feel the need anymore to justify myself to anyone. I FF my babies, for various reasons, but I don't feel the need to reiterate those reasons all the time to people.

Bon, You've reminded me of another situation that may cause a woman to not want to BF when she could technically do it... and I raise the issue very gently as it is very sensitive but maybe should be discussed. I have heard of women who have been sexually abused who do not wish to BF because it brings back too many memories. This is extremely tragic and my heart goes out to these poor women who deserve all the support in the world and definitely no judgment. Given that 1 in 3 women have been sexually abused the chances of this occurring is probably high. I agree that in this situation the woman needs to seek counseling and they should not have to explain themselves to anyone. However they do owe it to themselves and their babies to start walking the path of healing. I could imagine that seeing BF posters and hearing women talking about BF would be highly confronting for these women but what should we do? Just leave them to suffer? What do we do if we think someone is avoiding BF for this reason? :dunno: There are so many sensitivities... but to my mind it's just as cruel to ignore this type of suffering by refraining from speaking about it than it is to try to help...

ETA: Bon I am not implying this is your reason btw! sorry, when I re read my post it may have seems that way :redface:
ETA: sorry too Sushee, I missed your post, I agree, that's a perfect example of someone in need of help.

I think the difference is, if someone doesn't want to breastfeed then they should own it. And say I tried it but I didn't like it, it wasn't for me. Or like in my case, I did want to breastfeed but I was ill informed, and I take NO shame in that. I did the best I could with what I had at the time. I thought I knew what I was doing and I didn't. But my baby girl got nourished so I don't regret a thing. I have owned my choices and I don't ever feel the need to explain myself for those choices but if I do share my story people never judge me for it. The only time people judged me was when I was sprouting stuff that I thought was right that was wrong, and it wasn't even them judging me it was them trying to help me and it wasn't until I got over my own guilt that I realised that. Now please don't think I am accusing anyone of anything I am just talking about my own experience. Don't feel guilty for you choices or the need to justify yourself we are all different and just because breastfeeds and one doesn't that doesn't make them any less of a mother. I have a lot of respect for friends of mine who have admitted openly they hate breastfeeding so they used formula. But I will always try and help those who have been misinformed about breastfeeding because I wish there had been people around like myself when I first breastfed my daughter.

I'd love it if everyone could read this article below, its about the whole ff vs bf arguments.

Artificial Feeding - Nothing To Do With Breastfeeding

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In this thought provoking article, Yvette O'Dowd asks why there such a divide between women who breastfeed and those who resort to artificial baby milk. What led to the divide and who is to blame? A must read for all mothers, no matter how you feed your baby.

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I would consider myself passionate about bfing but I would NEVER make any mother feel bad about not bfing, and as so many of you have said, there are numerous reasons a mum might be ffing. How on earth can ppl judge without knowing you or your situation? (or even knowing if it is formula in the bottle, btw, there were a couple of times when I had EBM in a bottle)

Altho, I will warn you, it doesn't stop with being judged for the way you feed your baby... Wait until your very active toddler is tearing around exploring their environment or chucking a tantrum at a really opportune moment! Or pinching another child's food. Or another child (not that mine has done that yet, but give it time!). I think I must just ignore what everyone is doing with their 'looks' as I'm far too busy worrying about my own child to notice them!

I found this thread really interesting!! I'm bf'ing my son who is 15 wks old, and I wouldn't dream of criticizing another mother's feeding choice - bf or ff!!! I am only interested in making sure that people know the truth about both bf and ff and their options with regard to both - so I'd correct misconceptions about both bf and ff if I heard them. But I wouldn't then harp on about pushing one or the other - it's a personal thing and I can only imagine how devastating it must be to want to bf and not be able to. I went through a bad patch with my son not gaining weight for 4 weeks but with the support of a great gp we made it through. So I've got a bit of an idea about the thoughts and grief and guilt when you might be facing the fact that bf isn't working for you and bubs.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I wouldn't dream of criticizing any of you for your choices or for having to switch to ff. It's your family, your business. And I can't believe people wouldn't give up their seat to a mother feeding her baby via any means in a feeding room - how appalling!!!

Hi,
I'm a mother of 4 children, and every day work with mothers - either in my paid capacity as a lactation consultant or my volunteer role as a breasteeding counsellor. Every day I meet the most amazing women (many of them here on Belly Belly) Women who figh for their children, who educate themselves about issues they and their families face, and when the chips are down, they make the best decision they can. That may sometimes mean that they formula feed. But they do so with love and thought, and because of their committment their children grow and thrive. My eldest is now 14 years old, and every day I learn new things and very often I look back and wish I'd known then what I did now. Maybe with that information I would have made different decisions - maybe not. I sometimes regret decisions, but I don't feel guilty about them. Because I know in my heart I did the best I could. Whether you are breastfeeding or formula feeding you are not immune to the uninformed and unthinking comments. There's a saying "No-one can make you feel guilty without your consent" I believe it. When you look into the face of your beautiful baby, surely that tells you that you did the right thing - who cares what others say? And if you feel you didn't get the right information, help and support to do what you needed to do - take it up with those who were responsible for your care and education - not guilty.
Warm Regards
Barb

It's funny, when people ask if i BF or FF DD i say BF, even though i FF for almost half of the first year, at which point i switched her to cows milk. I stopped for many reasons, too long-winded and boring to go into here. Yes, there have been many times i wished i'd gone on BFing, but i know it wasn't possible.

I know a fair few sexually abused people, and was one myself. For me there is no association, i didn't have breasts when i was 5, and was only just starting to get them when i was 12 and he stopped. So for me BFing was only ever about nourishing my baby and having that closeness, and, i must admit, making life cheaper and easier. I loved my BFing days of popping out with only the baby and a muslin cloth, when compared to the FF days of having to take a bottle and a sterile cap/teat and the formula seperate because i didn't know when i'd need it and blah blah blah - i hated that aspect!

To me desire is the most important thing. At booking or at school even, before pregnancy, a girl should be asked "do you WANT to breastfeed?" and if she does she should be educated in every possible way to do so. If the answer is no then why force the issue? In that case educate the woman about Formula, al the facts about it. The baby WILL be fine on formula, and if she is still deciding, after knowing all the facts, to go with formula she must have her reasons.

My SIL didn't BF to avoid saggy boobs. She has less saggy boobs than me now but then she still has all her babyweight as she's not lost any of it and a lot of why my boobs have sagged is because i'm 18kg lighter than before PG. But i don't feel sorry for her babies because they missed her milk, i feel sorry for her because her opinion of herself is so low it is totally critical that her boobs stay pert, as if that was one of the main things she can offer the world - pert breasts. She is battling time, a battle she can never win.

Everyone has their foibles too. I personally wouldn't feed my baby much past the age of 1. This might be because i haven't made it past 7 months with DD and thus can't imagine it, but even before she was born i intended to wean her around then. Extended BFing isn't for me. I don't want to have to feed a toddler. I think it is a wonderful thing if a woman wants to and can and does, but i don't want to. Likewise i probably would quit if biting became a real issue before then. Yeah, kids can be discouraged from biting, but to be honest the associations for me are crazy and i don't want to encounter it. Having my nipples bitten is a very sexual thing for me, and one i enjoy, i don't WANT to feel my baby doing it. It is overtly sexual to me, not like birth is, like sex is.

Christy is right (gotta spread the love hun but will come back to you!) no matter WHAT you do there will always be someone, informed or misinformed thinking it is the wrong thing.

Bec

Hoobley, my mum was born in Glasgow and recently went back to see where it all happened. I too miss being able to take a smaller nappy bag out with me. seriously I use a baby weekender for day to day use!

Bec, I agree with so many of the things you have said, I won't even list them all ;) (gotta spread the love around too LOL!).

I have a family member with a three day old baby who is currently learning to BF. She has received very little support, so I am trying to lend her a hand where I can. I feel very strongly that if she wants to be able to BF, then she should receive help to that end. Personally, I don't give two hoots how her baby is fed - but I don't want her to feel that she can't do it without support, wean her bub, and then wish down the track that she hadn't. That's the only reason I'm helping her. As far as I'm concerned it is totally her choice how she feeds her bub, and I KNOW her bub would do just fine on formula. It hasn't hurt my DS yet!

As for the looks, I think I imagine them more than I actually see them :rolleyes: I HATE having to bottle feed in public, and I love BFing in public. Yet, I don't even notice how others feed their bubs, and I really don't care (how harsh does that read??). My guilt is my own, I really need to get over it. I'm sure that no one is bothered how I feed my baby, so I'm not sure why I'm so hung up on it.

I'm sorry for those who have been judged for their feeding decisions. But as others have said, it happens in every aspect of life, people can't help but have an opinion!

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As for the looks, I think I imagine them more than I actually see them

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You know, I often think this is the case. I honestly don't see people judging me in any way as a parent. But I am quite confident in myself now, don't get me wrong it has taken ages to get there and a lot of therapy. One element of cognitive behavioural therapy I worked on was called "mind reading" which basically means I don't worry about what other people think because I don't know what they think.

In the early days after stopping breastfeeding I was worried people would say something when I was out and about but no-one did. I know that I did the right thing for us. I made an informed decision based on my health and the only decision I could. I don't explain (other than in here) why we don't breastfeed and I am rarely asked about feeding. If someone felt the need to see if my ff was based on misinformation etc I would probably not go into it with them as my circumstances are quite personal and not something I would want to share with just anyone. I think online is easier as no-one know who I am.

I agree, some times there's just no other option. To keep your baby happy, healthy and growing - you what you gotta do! Shame on those who bag you for ff /bottle feeding. The looks I get when I have a screaming baby from the same ppl who gave me a different look five mins ago when he was sleeping! The other day I had to feed Jensen in the food court (bf), and the looks I got were disgusting. He just plain wouldn't feed anywhere else. So be it. My friend had to ff her son at 16wks due to falling pg. Ppl just never know the reasons. Persevere, you're doing the best for your baby!

Best wishes!
(ps: if this sounds negative, it wasn't meant to be!)

[QUOTEI agree Ali, sorry, you're right, this shouldn't be an anti-BF debate. But maybe you could help me... what should be said to women who choose to FF for reasons other than because BF is impossible? What should be said to the woman who doesn't want to BF because she believes it will make her breasts sag? Should we respect her misconception? I know that women like this are a tiny tiny tiny minority but still, what should be said?[/QUOTE]

I also agree this shouldn't be a debate, seems to me someone just needed to vent how they often feel judge when out in public. Initially this was about FF wasn't it? I'm sorry I don't mean to come across rude, but it just saddens me again as it seems to have turned into a BF/FF debate. I am not against those who are Pro BF, even though I FF (for whatever reason, not anyone else's business) I am Pro BF too & do think everyone needs to be educated & so on. I don't have a problem with the Pro BF threads etc. But this was a FF thread.

In regards to "what should be said" Nothing! that's the point of the thread I thought. I don't go around telling people why they should do something I don't agree with, it's not my business & often we don't have all the details. If someone was to ask your opinion, then certainly give it & stand up for what you believe in & be true to yourself, BF or FF. But many of us feel judged or left out, or have had things said to us in regards to FF & it isn't a CRIME so why say anything at all or give a dirty look if not warrented - I think that was the point of the thread.

Sorry if I've got it wrong.

I feel like I'm judged when I'm FF the boi. At mothers' group, there was a lot of happy talk from the MCHN about BF but not much about FF. One day when I hosted the group here, I offered my pump to one of the mums to borrow to see if it helped her - the looks she gave me! She asked why I had a pump -to which I explained I was unable to BF and had offered Pip the boob, then topped with FF and expressed after every feed as well. My life then was a nightmare of feeding, changing, expressing, sterilising etc. But after 4 weeks of expressing I still wasn't getting more than a teaspoon of milk collected - and that was from both sides. After that her attitude changed slightly, to more understanding. She'd never said anything to me, but had assumed I didn't try.

Similar to other mums, Pip just wasn't getting enough milk even in hospital - we had dry nappies then even though he was sucking to his heart's content - just not much swallowing. Unfortunately!

About a month after I gave up trying to BF, mum mentioned that she wasn't able to BF me - no supply. I'm glad she didn't ingrain into me the idea of failure, I just wish she'd mentioned that she had "some troubles" earlier :D

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[QUOTEI agree Ali, sorry, you're right, this shouldn't be an anti-BF debate. But maybe you could help me... what should be said to women who choose to FF for reasons other than because BF is impossible? What should be said to the woman who doesn't want to BF because she believes it will make her breasts sag? Should we respect her misconception? I know that women like this are a tiny tiny tiny minority but still, what should be said?

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I also agree this shouldn't be a debate, seems to me someone just needed to vent how they often feel judge when out in public. Initially this was about FF wasn't it? I'm sorry I don't mean to come across rude, but it just saddens me again as it seems to have turned into a BF/FF debate. I am not against those who are Pro BF, even though I FF (for whatever reason, not anyone else's business) I am Pro BF too & do think everyone needs to be educated & so on. I don't have a problem with the Pro BF threads etc. But this was a FF thread.

In regards to "what should be said" Nothing! that's the point of the thread I thought. I don't go around telling people why they should do something I don't agree with, it's not my business & often we don't have all the details. If someone was to ask your opinion, then certainly give it & stand up for what you believe in & be true to yourself, BF or FF. But many of us feel judged or left out, or have had things said to us in regards to FF & it isn't a CRIME so why say anything at all or give a dirty look if not warrented - I think that was the point of the thread.

Sorry if I've got it wrong.[/quote]


No erin , u got my whole point in 1 shot! I desperately wish that em would BF and recently I tried relactating, that worked but she just would not take the BB. My sister was the same at Em's age and so was my mum. we have a family history of happy starvers.

Ali - again, I'm with you 100%. I'm not anti bfeeding - far from it. I wish I could BF my DD. I starteed off not liking BF and then when it ended up I could no longer do it, I missed it dreadfully. Its such a special gift to be the only one who can nurture your child in such a personal way. I will certainly be trying to BF my next child and crossing everything it works.

I FF for medical reasons. My DD has severe silent reflux, as well as being lactose and wheat intolerant. I tried absolutely everything to enable me to keep BF, but nothing worked so my DD is now on soy. Having said that, I don't believe I have any reason to have to justify myself to anyone for how I feed my child.

My point about pro BFing women being difficult to deal with sometimes was not a negative towards women being educated as to the advantages of bfing. I personally have had comments from these people to the effect that formula feeding, particularly soy, can be detrimental to my child's health. I take huge exception to someone not only criticising my "choice" to FF, but then going on to say I am endangering my child's life. That is not just not acceptable.

As for the question about what to say to a woman who doesn't BF because of vanity or whatever, leave her be. Its her child, her body and her choice. Provided a child is not being neglected, I don't believe any of us have a right to make comment (if asked for an opion obviously that's different). As someone else said (sorry - can't go back that far to check who!), some people feel they have a right to criticise from the minute we're pregnant and it just doesn't stop. We would all be much more confident as mothers if we were offered support and respect of our choices as to how we parent our children, not criticism

My DS was born with a cleft lip and palate. I was told during the pregnancy that it was very unlikely that he would be able to BF. We did try when he was born but he could not physicaslly do it. He can't feed from a normal bottle either, he needs special feeding bottles. I did the whole expressing full time and bottle feeding ebm for as long as I could...I got to about 3 months but the amount of work (I barely had time to spend with him I was always attached to the pump, or storing milk , or sterilising etc etc) plus recurrent bouts of mastitis eventually made me change to FF. I feel comfortable with the deicison I made but I still feel the need to justify why I'm not BF when someone asks. In fact most people assume I am BF which leads me to have to say I'm FF and then I always feel I have to then tell them the whole story about my son.

We all do the best we can and reading this post I think shows that most of us wish we were able to BF, all of us know the benefits of BF over FF and we have all made a difficult decision based on our individual circumstances. My son is thriving and therefore has been able to have his operations as early as possible. 20 years ago he would have had to be tube fed, now he can use a bottle. Funny thing is we would probably get less coments about FF if he had a tube...makes it more obvious he has a birth defect.
Hugs to everyone. Our babies are all happy and healthy, whether BF or FF. We are all just mums doing the best we can for our babies.

I was lucky enough to BF for 10 weeks but then run out of milk :( so on the FF we went

I dont know if its just me... but if I see ANYONE with a baby giving it a bottle or on the boob I try my damdest to catch thier eye and give them a BIG SMILE :D
Why are us women so bloody judgemental to eachother.... WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER AS WOMEN!!!!

.......... i am trying to shut up............... he he....

At the end of the day when those women try giving you that look just give them either a BIG CHEESY GRIN.... or look them and thier kids up and down and they can know how it feels!! I know thats sooo immature :P but hey... sometimes people need to know how it feels

Ok shutting up now :P

Stay strong FFeeding mummies.... you have travelled a hard garden path to be comfy with where you are at... even if you didnt and just decided to FF its all about freedom of choice.... or are we just becoming a keep up with the Jones's society... pretty sad hey

Ok definatley shutting up now :P
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox

This thread is closed for editing purposes. In future please report posts rather than retaliating in the threads as it only makes it uncomfortable for other posters. This thread will reopen again shortly

Hello, just wanted to follow up on my earlier post here. I absolutely agree with you, FF is not a crime and no mother should be judged for their choice in nourishing her child. Period.

Well Girls, I do feel better knowing that I'm not the only one that has people feel like they have the right to say something that is not warranted. When the pro-bf advertising comes on I don't feel like it is anti-FF, I just feel sad that Em couldn't take what was intended for her. I have on many occasions had to ask people to move in the feeding rooms so I can sit and feed either of my children. It was more of an issue with Sarah as now I feel like I have more room in the food court to feed Em and actually sit down. Now I have the problem of getting Sarah to stay sitting in the pram as she can get out with the harness still done up, but that is another story. i do know a lot about BFing as I did a lot of research and had a lot of help, and now I am passing on my knowledge to the other girls in the August bubs thread. I'm glad that even though I am FF, I can help others to continue to BF so they don't have to carry everything around with them too. Thanks girls for all your support, and thanks mods for keeping ur eyes out for offensive posts. I did not intend this to be a debate, but I needed to vent to others in my situation.

Just thought i should re-visit this thread and give you an update. We found out that Em is Lactose intolerant, and severly so. she could not BF no matter how hard she tried. She is now just over 6 months old and has caught up and passed some in her age group. at 13 weeks she started losing wieght rapidly again and that is when we discovered the LI. I always try to congratulate the mums in the parents room that do things like BF or use cloth nappies, because they have decided to go against the 'norm' and persist with the way things probably should be. and good on them for ignoring the rude comments and looks! I try so hard to ignore the looks and comments now and have just had to say things like 'you are lucky he/she can do that! you dont have to carry as much cr@p!'

I am lucky that i have the suport of BB and the knowledge that i do, i would like to thank everyone for supporting me thru this tough time and i also want to let other mums, who have had this situation come up more recently, know that there is support there for you and not to feel guilty for giving it your best shot ;)

Oh hun! I'm SO glad they figured out why poor Em wasn't doing so well with her feeding and tummy. Poor wee thing trying to eat all that time when the lactose was making her poorly. What a relief it must be for you now to know what the matter was and see her thriving and thriving :)

Good on you for following your instincts and for going on being supportive to ALL the other mums around you. *mwa*!

Bx

I agree that FF is not a crime. It's such a sensitive topic too.

Madeleine is a FF baby and I've had people look down on me because of it. I started FF'ing Madeleine when she was a few weeks old because my nipples were cracked, bleeding and sore and I was crying at every feed. I saw an LC and I perservered but to no avail. I didn't wish to continue with it but praise all those women out there that are successfully able to BF! I certainly did not want to end up with depression, my baby is so important to me and I wanted to be a happy Mum.

It really shocks me how people can judge so easily.

Madeleine is really healthy and thriving and she's such a happy baby so that is all that matters to me.

I believe if your baby has love, affection, a warm bed, lots of cuddles and a belly full of milk, then feeding is a small part of the rest of their lives. I was formula fed as my Mum's milk went out but I turned out ok and have an awesome relationship with my Mum!

Life is short, be happy what you are doing and don't let others make you feel like you are making the wrong decision.

My Twins were FF from Birth and so is my DD and they are perfectly healthy happy babies.