ACQ treated pine for vegie patch

[sunshine_sieben]

Hi,
I want to build a vegie patch - or several - on a budget. I also don't have a huuuge amount of space. I have looked into various options and it seems that strawbales take up too much room and the other cost effective option, treated pine might leach toxic chemicals into the soil.
My reason for doing this is that I want to grow my food naturally, so treated pine is a no-go.
Until I saw a pre-made vegie patch at a popular hardware store for only $59 (1.2 x 1.2m). It is made out of ACQ (Ammoniacal Copper Quaternary) treated pine rather than the more commone CCA (which has arsenic in it). I have looked around a bit and it seems that the consensus is that this is fine to use for a vegie patch. I'm just not sure whether to trust it as many people think that CCA treated pine should be fine also.
So, what do you guys think?

[Rivlas]

DH made ours using sleepers. Kept sides the full length then cut others in half for the top & bottom so rectangles in shape. Ours are 2 sleepers high which is great for our backs.
He bolted them for strength and braced the shortened ends. Have had the first lot a couple years with no problems.

[Miss.September]

Ours is from sleepers too. We let them weather for about 18 months before soil went in. We also have an area of bricks, about four high.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

DH made ours using sleepers. Kept sides the full length then cut others in half for the top & bottom so rectangles in shape. Ours are 2 sleepers high which is great for our backs.
He bolted them for strength and braced the shortened ends. Have had the first lot a couple years with no problems.

We did exactly the same thing, got untreated sleepers direct from a sawmill. Plus the sleepers are thick so we can sit on the edge of them. We built 4 no dig gardens and they are going great guns!

[sunshine_sieben]

Yes, I know you can use hardwood sleepers. However, termites can eat those, too. I know that's not very likely, but DH and his family (who own this house) are paranoid about termites. Understandably so, after having to pretty much rebuild 2 houses due to termites within the last 10 years or so (his parents own a bit of property).
Also, hardwood sleepers are so much more expensive. although I do love the look of them and certainly like the idea of being able to sit on the edge.
So, does anybody have any thoughts on the ACQ treated pine?

[Livinthedream]

Heya
Ours are CCA treated, being so close to the house, they had to be treated. We have lined them with black plastic. I dont know about the other stuff, but lining them is an option.
I have not heard of the other stuff, but I was under the impression that todays CCA treated stuff is not as bad for you as the stuff from the olden days. Or maybe I am just hoping that LOL

ETA, have just googled ACQ and it looks like it should be fine. Go for it I say

[melbel]

ACQ is supposedly better.....it is advised for all kids stuff these days, we made the sandpit from ACQ sleepers........our vegie patch will be ACQ stuff for sure.....

[Pandora]

CCA treated pine shouldn't be used near food children or animals without being sealed to keep the toxic stuff from getting out.

Cypress pine, if you can get it, doesn't rot, termites won't eat it and it's not toxic

[sunshine_sieben]

Pandora, I know about CCA treated pine. I was wondering about ACQ treated pine whoch doesn't have the arsenic or chromium components.
I guess I am just wondering whether I can buy these premade cheap things and get stuck into it straight away or whether I have to save up some money and wait to have time to build some myself.

Thanks for the suggestion on cypress pine, though.

Thanks Melbel.
Shelley, are you talking about the vegie garden that is sort of behind where I parked my car??? I didn;t have a close look at it, just remember seeing it out of the corner of my eye. Didn't notice it had timber...

[Pandora]

Cheers, I should have clarifired the first part of my post was for 'livingthedream'

[sunshine_sieben]

Yeah, I realised that after writing my post.
While I prefer to stay away from ACC treated pine for my vegie patch to be on the safe side, it seems that the case against it is not really all that strong. Here is an excerpt from Burke's Backyard. I found the same type of information on many many sites:

There is little evidence that the arsenic in treated pine leaches into soils. Where the real concerns lay is when CCA treated pine is used in playground equipment, where toddlers, who will put virtually anything in their mouth, run the risk of chewing on a scrap of timber or soil which lies next to treated timber. Another real concern with CCA is when woodworkers cut it. Breathing in the sawdust from treated pine is a health hazard, and you should always wear a dust mask when cutting it, and keep spectators away. CCA treated pine should also never be burned, nor should it ever come in contact with drinking water.
So, with all those warnings, it’s no wonder that people shy away from CCA treated pine. But, as we have said earlier, there is little credible scientific evidence that when used as an edging material for garden beds, that it leaches arsenic into the soil.

Then again, they also used to say that BPA is nothing to be worried about... or Asbestos for that matter...

[sunshine_sieben]

Ok, i just had pretty bad financial news...
We run our own business. It's our only income and our biggest client, who has been severely affected by the floods will not give us any work until around June... and we've already been really quiet since the end of november...

So, I am trying to do this on a really tight budget.
No raised beds. Not only can I not afford the timber, I also can't afford the soil. So I am planning to do this inground by just adding some bags of compost and blood and bone and the like to my sandy soil.
Does anyone have any tips for me?
And what about keeping the grass out? Are there any effective methods? I don't want to spend hours weeding.
I'm also going to grow my own seeds to save money. I think I will do that in little seed pots. I find I have no success with direct sowing...

Do you think you are saving money by growing your own vegies? Or are you paying the same or more than in the supermarket (for much better quality of course)?

[Rivlas]

I cannot remember the last time I bought lettuce as we have grown cos for years and collected the seeds. If you can put down sugar cane mulch or something like that it does keep the weeds down a fair bit. The main thing is water, if you have a tank or can collect it then that will have you money.

Try growing things to suit your area, talk to your neighbours and garden supplier. Carrots & corn are really not worth the time or energy. Silverbeeet, spinach, potatoes, peas, beans & capiscums are easy to grow and don't meed alot of water. All these can be grown in pots apart from the spuds as long as you keep a large saucer under the pot and keep them moist.

[HotI]

you can grow seedlings in egg cartons

[Dollyroux]

Hi Sunshine,

My DH is a wholesale timber salesman. I asked him this and he gave me a long boring chemistry lecture but is boils down to - Whilst ACQ is more 'PC' at the moment, he thinks that the CCA is better/safer He said
he'd be happy to give our DD veggies from a CCA bordered garden as opposed to ACQ. There has never been any case of arsenic poisoning from/related to CCA treated timber, ever.

Sorry if this comes to late and you've already purchased.


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[sunshine_sieben]

Dollyroux, Thanks for your contribution.

I don't think acute arsenic or chromium poisoning is the worry with ACC treated timber. That is more the case if the sawdust is inhaled or the timber eaten (like when children chew play equipment). But the accumulation of these substances might be causing other health issues. This would be close to impossible to prove.

I have talked to a couple of doctors with an interest in these sorts of things. One of them is my father and he's a bit of a skeptic (as in he likes to research things and he's a bit of a science buff and can actually read studies and understand them). But both still strongly advised me against using CCA treated timber in my yard. Especially not for growing veggies in.

So while I don't agree with your DH's position on CCA being safe, I would be interested to hear his reasoning for not trusting ACQ.

To be honest, I don't trust either...

[Dollyroux]

Hi Sunshine, I'll see if I can get him to write a reply and cut and paste it in... So might be later this week. No disrespect taken, all good


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