The cost of Healthy Eating?

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My food policy tends to be, if I can't pronounce the ingredients, its not healthy.

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soooooo a person with english as a second language finds a word like cauliflower hard to pronounce, does that make it unhealthy?

i get that you're more referring to additives, but most people can pronounce "flavour enhancer 621" and still it's unhealthy, so that theory is blown out of the water too!!


i know vego doesn't necessarily = lentils. i ate vego at least four or five nights a week for the entire time i was on campus for uni. BUT, if you're looking to REPLACE a protein portion in an otherwise balanced meal, you would be looking at something like that - mature beans, lentils, pulses, legumes... something along those lines. hence the reference to lentils in previous post... if you're looking at something to "replace", in terms of a burger or something, lentil burgers come to mind...

In bris we have a library in just about every suburb. In Melb - Where I lived was a lower socioeconomic area - I had 2 a short bus ride away. Warrnambool had a couple I think, we use to go every couple of weeks(this is back when warnambool was a small city and you could walk from one end to the other in a few hours.) Ive never lived anywhere else so I cant comment on rural. But there has lalways been several available to me and we were never well off.

I'm sure everyone wants to eat healthy. When moved out I was forever seeking ways to cook healthy. I worked with a lady in her 60s and I would ask her for ideas. I'd get on Google and look things up. But I guess that's kind of the point - I was motivated.

Unless you live on some remote station, there's always going to be a way to seek information. Be it via a book, internet, GP, friends...

I do find it hard to understand that obtaining information is *impossible*

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soooooo a person with english as a second language finds a word like cauliflower hard to pronounce, does that make it unhealthy?

i get that you're more referring to additives, but most people can pronounce "flavour enhancer 621" and still it's unhealthy, so that theory is blown out of the water too!!


i know vego doesn't necessarily = lentils. i ate vego at least four or five nights a week for the entire time i was on campus for uni. BUT, if you're looking to REPLACE a protein portion in an otherwise balanced meal, you would be looking at something like that - mature beans, lentils, pulses, legumes... something along those lines. hence the reference to lentils in previous post... if you're looking at something to "replace", in terms of a burger or something, lentil burgers come to mind...

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Yes you do know where I was going with that comment so there really is no need to nit pick.

And cities are very different to country towns as to the information & services they can provide. A lot of those mentioning things like Coles, farmers markets, libraries & net access are only thinking city living. All that stuff is not available to the rest of us.

Maybebaby - Thats exactly the point I was trying to make in my original post. I coouldn't make a loaf of bread for $1.

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I'm sure everyone wants to eat healthy. When moved out I was forever seeking ways to cook healthy. I worked with a lady in her 60s and I would ask her for ideas. I'd get on Google and look things up. But I guess that's kind of the point - I was motivated.

Unless you live on some remote station, there's always going to be a way to seek information. Be it via a book, internet, GP, friends...

I do find it hard to understand that obtaining information is *impossible*

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Noone said obtaining information is impossible. Though it isn't always easy. Its the fact that people think they're doing the right thing, when they aren't. They have no reason to go look up healthier food choices when they don't realise their choices are unhealthy. Meat & 3 veg has always been classed as an average healthy meal. Different ways to cook it are different, but some don't get why steamed veggies are healthier than a saucy veggie bake. They know that they're eating veggies, plus there'd be calcium in the milk/cream that goes into the sauce, so it can't be too bad. When its full of cheese & cholesterol. They think about the veggies they know they are eating. Not the fat that they don't see.

And when your friends are feeding their kids the same foods & they're the foods you grew up on, why would you think twice? Why would you question the way everyone you know eats? Its normal life & better than the cake/chips/ice cream diet you could be eating, so why would the thought of it not being the best diet even cross your mind?

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Unless you live on some remote station, there's always going to be a way to seek information. Be it via a book, internet, GP, friends...

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Books date, what is deemed *healthy* changes every other day. GP's - well, if you've got one that can a) speak clear English, b) spare the time to have a conversation on nutrition with you and c) not charge you through the roof for an appointment, you're doing well. Not everyone has access to treatment when they NEED it due to illness, let alone when they want to have a chat about good nutrition!

Friends - if your friends are in the same socio-economic position as you, their feedback will likely reinforce your ideas, not challenge them!

and as has been previously mentioned, why would you research if you don't know what you're doing is wrong?

As to libraries - at our last house, the nearest library was a 40+k round trip. and it was a library at the local high school so didn't have extended hours, and had limited resources that weren't related directly to high school studies. they have now opened a small public library in that town but i'm not sure how well stocked it is.

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I reject the notion that all low income families should have to turn vegetarian simply because they can't afford any other option. That doesn't seem like real choice to me

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That's just day to day life all over the world. In Palestine they call lentil's poor man's meat. The reason that there is such a rich vegetarian tradition in so many cuisines is because meat has traditionally been expensive and saved for special occasions. The unusual scenario both globally and historically is living in a society that most people expect to eat meat at most meals.
And not just meat but the best meat. A society in which large parts of an animal are rejected as just being too yucky is really a historical anomaly.

I think there is a need to get rid of the big chain collusion and the overwhelming hold of the fresh food market.

I know that, that a good portion of people in the world can't even afford to adequately feed their families really ****es me off, in a similar way that one family in this town might not be able to afford to feed their family meat whilst another is busy deciding which trendy restaurant they will eat at this evening. In this world of excess, it upsets me that food is a luxury item for many people. I know it's reality but I don't have to like it.:redface:

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And cities are very different to country towns as to the information & services they can provide. A lot of those mentioning things like Coles, farmers markets, libraries & net access are only thinking city living. All that stuff is not available to the rest of us.

Maybebaby - Thats exactly the point I was trying to make in my original post. I coouldn't make a loaf of bread for $1.

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That's true. I guess I just find it bizarre, I grew up in a *very* low socio economic area, my parents didn't even have a car. And I always saw food pyramid posters everywhere - the school dentist, even Centrelink. And I was definitely taught about it at school (I guess I was the only fool who paid minimal attention in Health Education).

It does annoy me to no end though, that you can buy a loaf of white bread for a dollar but decent rye or wholemeal is $5?!

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I know that, that a good portion of people in the world can't even afford to adequately feed their families really ****es me off, in a similar way that one family in this town might not be able to afford to feed their family meat whilst another is busy deciding which trendy restaurant they will eat at this evening. In this world of excess, it upsets me that food is a luxury item for many people. I know it's reality but I don't have to like it.:redface:

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This. Here we are ranting and raving about the cost of healthy food, and millions of people don't get any :(

It is expensive to eat healthily. We spend around $130-150 per week just on fruit and veg. We don't use Pre made sauces or frozen foods except peas and ice cream. We don't eat take always much so maybe that makes my shop more cost effective and I usually eat lunch at home. We make pizzas at home using a pizza base from our fruit shop which is made of flour and salt. We think our pizzas are tastier than bought ones and much less fat.

I do feel for people that can't afford to buy healthy foods. Meat is expensive and it is time consuming preparing meals. But on the upside it makes me feel good, much easier to maintain my weight. I think it's the best anti aging product around. Though sometimes I wonder if anyone spends what I do on fruit and veg apart from our families!

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That's true. I guess I just find it bizarre, I grew up in a *very* low socio economic area, my parents didn't even have a car. And I always saw food pyramid posters everywhere - the school dentist, even Centrelink. And I was definitely taught about it at school (I guess I was the only fool who paid minimal attention in Health Education).

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I grew up in an area very similar. And I know how the food pyramid works. But it doesn't go into detail about food options. It doesn't tell you that whole grain bread is the best alternative. It doesn't tell you that commercialised cereal actually isnt very healthy. Bread, cereals, rice & pasta's are the base of the food pyramid. So 'should' be eaten the most. I'm not so sure the food pyramid is as accurate as it could be?

I don't remember school going into that sort of detail either.

And again, we all know fruits & veg are healthier, but we don't think in great detail about how they're served. Some options aren't all that healthy in the end.

I've BTDT with choosing unhealthier foods to make the food budget stretch.

Sausages, cheap fatty mince, hot dogs, pies or sausage rolls have graced our table on a regular basis in times of financial shortfall, instead of lean cuts of meats or (heaven forbid @ $25/kg) fish.

And when you can't afford any of those, the addition of a hefty amount of grated cheese makes nearly anything palatable.

Ok, so I had the background knowledge and skills to add veggies to pretty much everything we cooked (which added to the food value enormously), and I can do a million things with pasta, rice and couscous, but it's still far cry from an ideal diet.

Calluna - re people having access to information. One of the most basic skills involved in finding information is recognising that you need it. Many people don't even have this ability. They are surviving by doing what they've always done, often learnt in their own family of origin. Other barriers to accessing useful information include illiteracy, speaking a language other than English, having no basic IT skills, not having transport to get to the library or not even knowing that the library offers this kind of service. Saying that there are computers at the library is a rank oversimplification of the skills and processes needed to benefit from the information that is available.

And when your dental health is poor and you're missing half your teeth because you have little to no access to dental services, chomping down on a nice healthy salad is the last thing you want to do! Chips, on the other hand, can be gummed down pretty easily...

Funny, the one thing I keep thinking of when reading this (and another similar) thread is Trillian's signature.

The irony of white privilege is that you don't understand it because you are privileged.

If only the playing field was equal.

LOL N2L, I've been thinking of Trillian's sig all day too.

Yeah, Marydean, I realised that after I posted but wasnt sure how.I could come out of it without looking like a ****. So I just shut up. Lol :redface:
I guess I was just looking at it from city living point.of view. Everything one needs is here. Its all I know. I am learning a lot from this discussion though.

Having lived in a 3rd world country for so long now I see what people really get by on and what they have to feed their kids.
Hubby was bought up with a egg when the chicken laid 1 no lay no egg. Meat was a special occasion thing really. You might get a little bit during the week. Tofu, rice, veg. His grandma taught him to really chew his rice so it would taste sweet- read- not always enough to eat so eat slow.
A boy 2 houses up from us tonight will eat rice and vegetable for dinner. - the school lunch we pay 700 a term for has meat served, his parents buy meat once a week cause they can't afford it. He came to lunch 1 day and his eyes popped out if his head at what we were having.

Its all taught, no money for food use to mean getting creative.
Ask me this in a years time when Im back in the reg world, living off assistance and feeding 3kids and 1adult :dunno:

soups are great though. A "dog" bone from the butcher chopped up and slow cooked with onion carrot etc. Its a good extra boost of nutrition

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That's just day to day life all over the world. In Palestine they call lentil's poor man's meat. The reason that there is such a rich vegetarian tradition in so many cuisines is because meat has traditionally been expensive and saved for special occasions. The unusual scenario both globally and historically is living in a society that most people expect to eat meat at most meals.
And not just meat but the best meat. A society in which large parts of an animal are rejected as just being too yucky is really a historical anomaly.

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I think this is a really important issue that isn't given anywhere near the thought it deserves.

We live in what we perceive t be an affluent country, when in reality, not everyone can have the same access to the best of everything all the time, as they simply cannot afford it.

My husband's family all still tell the story of The Best Mash and Gravy Ever as being The Best Meal We Ever Ate. MIL made mash, and left over gravy for dinner one night. Because she was a single mother, and that is literally all they had left and she had no money to buy anything else. So 3 adolescent boys at mash and gravy for dinner and they all still remember that meal as the best thing ever.

Being poor doesn't mean you should *only* have access to highly processed and **** foods, but it does mean that you can't eat meat 7 nights a week, and you may just have to look at how MUCH you are all consuming and decide if you really do NEED to eat so much at every meal.

We take food for granted, and given the current global situation, and our own economic situations here at home, perhaps is time we truly re-evaluated how we look at food?

Gosh - multiple things to discuss.

First, but minor. Warrnambool has one library, which if the council could withdraw its funding it would. The cook book section is small, plus, as has already been said, you need to know what you are looking for in the first place.
Food pyramid - Yep, lots of posters around, but that does not mean it is right or what constitutes healthy. I know if we eat pasta and potatoes, the cheap stuff that the food pyramid wants us to eat, well we get fat, very fat.

As they say in realestate, Location, Location, Location. Not all places have farmers markets, Asian grocers etc. Major regional centre here and the food is expensive. The supposed fruit and veg supplier that "everyone" raves about, it more expensive and less quality than the major supermarkets. If you want to eat out as a family, forget about it. No food courts with sushi, salads, choice for all the different family tastes. There is the typical local cafe, with its thin skanky ham and cheese toasty paired with the local produced, but additive laden, juice like drink, costs more than feeding the family at Maccas. If you think about it, the Maccas meal could almost healthier ;)

Whenever we make an effort to eat better (and I think we already eat pretty well), our food bill goes up. We do have a veggie patch, but honestly if you add up all the costs that have gone into its set-up and ongoing maintenance, I think we break even in compared to buying.

If only it was all so simple.

:clap: yes defiantly LS
Portion control is an affluent country term lol

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I grew up in an area very similar. And I know how the food pyramid works. But it doesn't go into detail about food options. It doesn't tell you that whole grain bread is the best alternative. It doesn't tell you that commercialised cereal actually isnt very healthy. Bread, cereals, rice & pasta's are the base of the food pyramid. So 'should' be eaten the most. I'm not so sure the food pyramid is as accurate as it could be?

I don't remember school going into that sort of detail either.

And again, we all know fruits & veg are healthier, but we don'tthink in great detail about how they're served. Some options aren't all that healthy in the end.

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Good point. I guess I've always been a natural sort of person so eaing food closer to its natural state comes easily to me.

What BD said is true, about creativity. But again it does come back down to laziness for some part... Why get creative when you can buy a jar of Chicken Tonight for $2.50?

Food manufacturers have a lot to answer for. I do think there needs to be much stricter guidelines on the amount they advertise. Coco Pops commercials running conveniently during children's program hours and what not.

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Gosh -

As they say in realestate, Location, Location, Location. Not all places have farmers markets, Asian grocers etc. Major regional centre here and the food is expensive. The supposed fruit and veg supplier that "everyone" raves about, it more expensive and less quality than the major supermarkets. If you want to eat out as a family, forget about it. No food courts with sushi, salads, choice for all the different family tastes. There is the typical local cafe, with its thin skanky ham and cheese toasty paired with the local produced, but additive laden, juice like drink, costs more than feeding the family at Maccas. If you think about it, the Maccas meal could almost healthier ;)

Whenever we make an effort to eat better (and I think we already eat pretty well), our food bill goes up. We do have a veggie patch, but honestly if you add up all the costs that have gone into its set-up and ongoing maintenance, I think we break even in compared to buying.

If only it was all so simple.

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Astrid its a good point you make, there are a number of Australian studies that show eating healthy in rural areas is significantly higher than that of metropolitan areas :(

Well said MD!

This is a really interesting topic and I think goes to show that there are multiple issues relating to why people may not be making healthy food choices, cost being only one.

I know I don't always make healthy food choices and for me it's either due to convenience/laziness, cost, or because I prefer the taste of some foods.

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Funny, the one thing I keep thinking of when reading this (and another similar) thread is Trillian's signature.

The irony of white privilege is that you don't understand it because you are privileged.

If only the playing field was equal.

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N2L. I get what you are saying, I truly do.
But the issues we are discussing concern people who do have access to money and refridgerators and supermarkets.
I am sure there are 10s of thousands of people living in abject poverty.
But the simple fact is, they do not make up the majority of obese Australians.
Go to your local shopping centre, there are fat people EVERYWHERE.
Now these people are all capable of obtaining a drivers licence, remembering pin numbers to ATM cards, setting up facebook accounts and sending txt messages.
They are not impoverished, or mentally disabled, they KNOW that an apple is better for you than a mars bar.
Yet for some reason, you would have us believe that its not their fault, that there must be some other reason that they are fat.
Why make excuses for them, doesnt that just perpetuate the problem?
I am 15 kg over weight. I eat too much (of the "right" foods)
I own it, its not anyone elses fault and I need to fix it.
No excuses :)

Hey, go failsafe. You'll save loads on the grocery bill - true! And you probably won't overeat - not much point with so little flavour.
In all seriousness, we're spending a lot less on food nowadays.

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First, but minor. Warrnambool has one library, which if the council could withdraw its funding it would. The cook book section is small, plus, as has already been said, you need to know what you are looking for in the first place.

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Ok. I left when I was 12 so dont remember a whole lot. I just remember walking there. :) maybe I was thinking of Dennington or the school library or something. :dunno: Thats really sad about the funding. I dont think Ive ever seen the cooking section. Didnt really interest me at the stage. Lol

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soups are great though. A "dog" bone from the butcher chopped up and slow cooked with onion carrot etc. Its a good extra boost of nutrition

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Noms...... I'm glad I'm not the only person here who asks the butcher to set aside a few big bones.

Lol. If white privilege is the problem in this discussion, then I think we need to shut this whole forum down. Which pregnancy care provider to chose, birth advocacy, IVF, which school to send our kids to...may as well throw the towel in on all of those white privileges as well, because after all, somebody has it worse than us somewhere and they don't have the choices we do.

I honestly do not think the *majority* of the people who are contributing so grossly to the ever rising obesity epidemic here and in other countries are doing so because they live 100km from a library, have never seen a supermarket, haven't eaten a home cooked meal, don't know what a vegetable is and are so disadvantaged in every single way that to dare judge them or assume they could do better or try harder is a moral crime. I feel like the amount of 'what ifs' being thrown around now is almost getting laughable. I'm sure we're all smart enough to understand that yeah, there are going to be barriers for some people, more for some than others. But let's be real, most people feed their kids crap on a daily basis as the main part of their diets because they're ignorant by choice, or lazy. If you rounded up all the people in any given supermarket with trolleys FULL of junk food, as in, that was a weekly shop, not just part of one, and assessed whether they had any way of improving themselves and their children's diets, I'm very confident the majority of them would have a myriad of options open to them that they choose not to access. Hell, if there are people like Mark Mathabane, who can pull themselves through a horrific childhood of poverty and rise up through apartheid and become still become successful people in life, I'm sure people living in Australia can learn how to adequately feed and nourish themselves and their children :rolleyes:

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We do have a veggie patch, but honestly if you add up all the costs that have gone into its set-up and ongoing maintenance, I think we break even in compared to buying.

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this is pretty much true - ours will break even-ish this year compared to what we'd pay buying the items from the local woolies - the win is the flavour. and the instant gratification i guess - tonight for instance, we were having fried rice and took peas and snow peas out of the garden and into the pan. no having to think it through at the shops or dash down there - it was a case of having it when we needed it. and having healthier snacks - i'd much prefer DD to have strawberries or snow peas fresh from the garden instead of yogurt or sultanas - but we still have those in the house as healthier alternatives to sweet biscuits and chips and stuff....

Have to share the love, PZ! :clap:

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this is pretty much true - ours will break even-ish this year compared to what we'd pay buying the items from the local woolies - the win is the flavour. and the instant gratification i guess - tonight for instance, we were having fried rice and took peas and snow peas out of the garden and into the pan. no having to think it through at the shops or dash down there - it was a case of having it when we needed it. and having healthier snacks - i'd much prefer DD to have strawberries or snow peas fresh from the garden instead of yogurt or sultanas - but we still have those in the house as healthier alternatives to sweet biscuits and chips and stuff....

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Flavour is well worth it along with the nutrient content, I just don't think "grow your own" should be pushed as a cost saving measure (have seen it in many articles, advice columns etc). Possibly long term, once the main set-up has happened, especially if you (generic you) seed save and have worked out what grows well for you, along with what you actually will eat, it would then save money.
Growing your own herbs is worth it though and a great place to start for many people.

I was shocked when saw on a Bunnings receipt that vegetable seedlings incur GST :o Logically if the output is GST free, then surely the plant would be as well.

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I was shocked when saw on a Bunnings receipt that vegetable seedlings incur GST :o Logically if the output is GST free, then surely the plant would be as well.

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stupid, isn't it?

and i agree - it's definitely not a cost saving option, especially in the early stages. seed saving makes it more cost effective over a period of time, but not always easy to do...

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Lol. If white privilege is the problem in this discussion, then I think we need to shut this whole forum down. Which pregnancy care provider to chose, birth advocacy, IVF, which school to send our kids to...may as well throw the towel in on all of those white privileges as well, because after all, somebody has it worse than us somewhere and they don't have the choices we do.

I honestly do not think the *majority* of the people who are contributing so grossly to the ever rising obesity epidemic here and in other countries are doing so because they live 100km from a library, have never seen a supermarket, haven't eaten a home cooked meal, don't know what a vegetable is and are so disadvantaged in every single way that to dare judge them or assume they could do better or try harder is a moral crime. I feel like the amount of 'what ifs' being thrown around now is almost getting laughable. I'm sure we're all smart enough to understand that yeah, there are going to be barriers for some people, more for some than others. But let'bereal, most people feed their kids crap on a daily basis as the main part of their diets because they're ignorant by choice, or lazy. If you rounded up all the people in any given supermarket with trolleys FULL of junk food, as in, that was a weekly shop, not just part of one, and assessed whether they had any way of improving themselves and their children's diets, I'm very confident the majority of them would have a myriad of options open to them that they choose not to access. Hell, if there are people like Mark Mathabane, who can pull themselves through a horrific childhood of poverty and rise up through apartheid and become still become successful people in life, I'm sure people living in Australia can learn how to adequately feed and nourish themselves and their children :rolleyes:

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Amen sista!!!

Yes the white privilege comment is utterly ridiculous. So *only* indigenous people get trapped in cycles of alcohol abuse, poverty etc etc yadda yadda. I suppose my childhood was a lie, because a lot of indigenous people were waaay better off than my family. So even though I grew up in a house where quite often my parents didn't eat, our electricity was shut off and I had to beg for a a piece of clothing that wasn't a hand me down, I wouldn't have a darn clue about these issues or experiences because I'm white. Yep. I'm white therefore completely ignorant. Racist much?

I think the comment about white privilege was allegorical. Not saying that white privilege is directly relevant to the issue of obesity and malnutrition in the Australian context :lol:

BTW the concept of white privilege doesn't say that only indigenous people experience poverty it is more a theoretical framework which argues that whiteness is posited as the norm.

What is 'whiteness'?

And you know what, I barely ever see overweight or obese indigenous people. Perhaps this is because they are quite active and get about, the children always play on the street etc.

Exercise plays a very big part.

The term white privilege is just a different way of saying middle to upper class privilege, or 1st world privilege. At least that's what I thought? It isn't meant as a racial term, more to do with classes and which country you live in.

No. It's a sociological term which is used in race theory. It is specifically related to race not class.
Wiki is your friend ;)

Yes that's how I take it too PZ, but then it assumes white people will only ever experience privilege and indigenous people are destined to poverty.

Way off topic anyhow! :)