What meow said. Check out Alfie Kohn's books/work on this stuff - reward & punishment.
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What meow said. Check out Alfie Kohn's books/work on this stuff - reward & punishment.
You know i really think it depends on the child if time out is going to work. For instance DS1 gets highly frustrated and wants to voice his opinion and then it tends to boil over especially when at school, he gets removed from the situation which helps him calm down, regroup his thoughts in a logical way then comes back into the group setting more relaxed and calm. If they do get to go to the office at school the teachers or deputy listen to there points of view each and everyone of them so the kids feel like they have got there thoughts and opinions out there, instead of making enemys with the other child in question they normally go back best of mates because the way it is handled.
I thought there was some kind of theory about why it wasn't great. Can you explain further Meow? How do you manage to parent without reward or consequences?:
Consequences yes, rewards and punishments no (essentially the same thing in reverse). It's about helping kids learn to do things for their own sake - because it's the right thing to do - not in order to get a reward or avoid punishment.
The PET literature explains this quite well, but I'll admit I"m a bit stumped as to how to apply this with a 3 year old sometimes. It's hard to talk it all out and come to mutually satisfactory solutions when your child is flipping out at you. There have been a number of times I've threatened to send him straight to bed if he doesn't cooperate and have put him in his room a few times.
I hope we're on the right track though. sometimes I see signs of hope. Like this morning. DS wanted porridge. I said, no, we'll have toast because we have no milk. He flipped out. I said again, sorry, we have no milk. Then he suggested we go to the shop to get some milk. I said ok, but we all have to go and you'll have to go to the potty first. He said sure. We went.
PET is great. Active listening really works. But I still can not manage all my 3 year olds behavior with those techniques alone. Sometimes she just loses it. Like her little brain is in overload.... I dunno, sometimes I just feel like it's a losing battle. Cool down time really helps her reset. If i try active listening and talking her through the situation, sometimes it works but other times it doesn't stand a chance. I need a new tool for when things aren't working. Right now time out helps her calm down and think rationally again. We don't need it that often, but i do use it , If there are better tools out there to add to my tool box I'm all for hearing them!
123 magic talks a lot about not lecturing kids, not talking 'at' them, but letting them understand the consequences of their actions themselves. Which my daughter seems to respond well to.Man I wish there was a golden rule book sometimes!!!
yeah, that would be nice!
I think when they lose it sometimes the best thing is 'time in'
You might find Louise Porter's book "Children are people too" really helpful. Yes, trying to talk about the issue when a child is in a hightened wont work. Louise says "You can't reason with the unreasonable". But putting a child in that state on their own to calm down by themselves doesn't help teach self regulation.
If you think of considerate behaviour as a learnt skill, such as walking, it is easy to see why meltdowns are opportunities for learning rather than punishment. If your child trips over when learning to walk do you give them 3 tries to not fall down or else then put them in the corner? Then why so with inconsiderate behaviour? Why do we expect these little people to be born with considerate behaviour skills? Even as adults we learn new social skills when we enter new cultures- it is a learnt skill.
If your child is in meltdown mode then I agree that time in is great. By helping your child calm down you teach them that they are supported in this, that they can turn to you for help with this, and as they grow older and mentally seperate themselves from you they will have the knowledge that they can calm and support themselves.
If you are feeling out of control yourself or you don't think your child is up for some time in, then time away is helpful too. Teaching your child or yourself to take some time away is a really valuable skill. We do it heaps as adults. I model it now by saying "I feel really frustrated at the moment and I'm going to my room", or I might take my son to his room and place him in a soft place and say "I think you need to have some time to yourself". I never shut the door and as soon as I am a bit calmer I go to him and keep working on some time in to help calm him down.
Prior to hitting meltdown mode I generally try and modify what it happening to avoid reaching a meltdown. Where you might start at a 1 in 123magic I would start by reminding him how to behave and looking at my expectations. Is this situation to stimulating? Is the task within his means? Can I expect him to behave the way I would like or do I need to modify my expectations and change the situation? Those sorts of thoughts.
I hope that helps.
ETA: With regards to consequences, I would like my children to learn "real" consequences, eg.
"When I hit my brother it hurts him and makes him upset"
rather than punitive consequences, eg.
"When I hit my brother and my mum sees me do it, I get sent to time out"
i have almost finished reading 'children are people too' and i love it. it explains things really well. hopefully i can make it work as my munchkin gets older.