Registered User
I remember a time when journalists at least pretended they were well readSusie claims to have done her research but she clearly hasn't.
Registered User
She justified being told just that by saying it was an OPINION peice; therefore implying imo that she doesnt need to back up her "facts".
I remember a time when journalists at least pretended they were well read
Registered User
What a load of bullocks (but yes I do recall reading that now that you mention it). Why should an individual's OPINION then have any greater platform than anothers??? She is not providing any service to society at all... her role is simply to provoke strong emotion to sell papers to the outraged. She needs to stop taking advantage of the fact that many people could mistake her writing as the result of thorough research!
Registered User
Oh here we go again!
I am flabbergasted that this woman after having her "small" baby RIPPED from her body which mind you had a "default" of it own, can still think that giving birth at home is the unsafe way to give birth!!!! Doesn't she see that something is not right there?!?!
I don't see how people who have absolutely no interest in the subject can bash the $hit out of it with such naievity and uneducation!
I can only hope that women are becoming just as tired of these stories and are educated enough to make a decision for themselves regardless of what some whats-her-name thinks!
And I for one am one of those Women! I am proud to say that I am nurturing a child within whom I plan to birth into his/her's Daddy's hands in the safety and comfort of our home.
Registered User
that article just caused enough heat to rise out of my body to warm up the house.
how DARE she say HB should be illegal! where the heck was this womens head at? i'm sad that she can publish such codswollop and get away with it. she stuffed a traumatic birth, which i am truely sorry for. but why did she not explain WHY she birthed her baby at 37 weeks, maybe talk about he could have been in the wrong position? ohh thats right, she wouldn't. its not fair that people like this can say HB is darngerus. and useing the example from SA isn't really applicable - as she's talking or VICTORIAN readers
and her in that comment chat thing...doingwould make more sense as she runs away mid-way though!
Registered User
that article just caused enough heat to rise out of my body to warm up the house.
how DARE she say HB should be illegal! where the heck was this womens head at? i'm sad that she can publish such codswollop and get away with it. she stuffed a traumatic birth, which i am truely sorry for. but why did she not explain WHY she birthed her baby at 37 weeks, maybe talk about he could have been in the wrong position? ohh thats right, she wouldn't. its not fair that people like this can say HB is darngerus. and useing the example from SA isn't really applicable - as she's talking or VICTORIAN readers
and her in that comment chat thing...doing
Registered User
Maybe this is a case of how people so often make the loudest fuss JUST before changing their mind about a subject. I have heard that this is what people do when they come up against an argument that is strong but which they are emotionally against. They resist and resist and get very passionate about it.... seemingly... but then the penny drops... they have their light-bulb moment... and then very often become the MOST passionate about the opposing argument, the very one they rejected!!! Seen it time and time again and recently read about it... trying to remember where...Same thing as how ex smokers are the ones that are the most passionately anti-smoking IYKWIM. As long as the "pro" argument has a good basis in logic... as this one does if you do the research.
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
I've expanded my post into more full exploration of the topic.
I wish I knew how to get it published as a reply to her piece. I'd love the opportunity to address her opinions.
Registered User
Im not intending to offend anyone but............
I have often found that those opposed to homebirth or waterbirthing or horrified by a woman who is soooooooo pro-vaginal birth, do so because they have a traumatic birth story of their own that like Susie they will use to justify why you should be opposed by said topics BUT that deep down they know there is a multitude of things that they should be angry about when it comes to their own birth experience but if they were then they might just have to admit they blindly trusted Drs who did NOT have their best interests at heart. Everyone hates being wrong, hates thinking they could have done more and that a scenario did not have to be that way if they were more knowledgable on their options.
Obviously doesnt apply to every case of a woman who has a traumatic birth experience because ofcourse some are 100% the right way to have done things to ensure mother and bub safety but I think even from all the stories on here about unneccesary birth interventions etc that those situations are the minority.
That makes me extremely angry and sad for birthing women everywhere; that there should even be traumatic birth stories and anger over medical mismanagement and misinformation is a tragedy.
I think this highlights two things:
The way birthing is viewed and undertaken needs to be overhauled. Education for midwives and Obstetricians needs to be radically revised.
Women need to be better informed. Maybe the hospital birth classes should be scrapped and non-biased ones run by independent teachers who are going to ensure that they know all their options, active birthing, proper intervention statistics etc
Ive had a few friends whove been pregnant tell me on numerous occasions "Id love a natural birth but I'll do whatever it takes, I mean we have all these great options to ensure a safe delivery of my baby, if I have to be induced/have csection/use instruments then I'll do what they tell me too".
THAT is where we get caught out. The Drs rely on this to be pushy and lie. Inductions, csections, instrumental help - all these things should not even enter your thoughts until its absolutely neccesary. Other avenues should be tried first like different birthing positions, natural induction methods including acupuncture etc Its like being wary of driving a car JUST IN CASE you get into a car accident. The risk isnt all that high but why tempt fate? Im glad these options are available when things go pear shaped; if my pre eclampsia with Ds1 had been life threatening I would gladly have toddle into an OR for a csection...................but it should not be our first and foremost thought on the off chance things do go wrong. Positive thinking is an amazing thing; maybe if we all concentrated on positive ways to birth our babies and ensuring we've had the best chance at doing that with minimal interference then maybe things would change overall.
Ok Im done, Im sure Ive ****ed more than a few people off; I just think we've gotten so medicalised as a society that we've lost touch with our bodies and nature. Wouldnt it be awesome to know what the problem rate with birthing women in say amazonian tribes is??? I wonder if its lower than ours because they dont have that "what if...........?" factor.
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Justine Caines' response to the Herald Sun which didn't get published of course.... but GREAT response as always from Justine.
Homebirth Rights and Responsibility – A response to Susie O'Brien from Justine Caines
Let’s lock up the homebirthers. I must admit it has got a ring to it. Lets make the law retrospective and capture Bill Grainger and his wife Natalie, Noni Hazlehurst, Tracy Bartram, not to mention Cameron Daddo, Tropfest’s John Polson, John Butler, and even former Prime Minister Bob Hawke’s daughter, Sue. They could join the thousands more, amongst them doctors and lawyers who have chosen homebirth after considered research.
Susie O’Brien’s piece was irresponsible and insulting. Her own story does not have any relationship to the safety of homebirth. She states that she had complexities in pregnancy which resulted in induction with resultant complications. Inductions do not take place at home. Homebirth safety comes from maximising wellness with a healthy unmedicated woman cared for by a midwife who has got to know the woman and her family over many months. The vast majority of these births do not go horribly wrong without warning and for the women choosing homebirth, the benefits far outweigh the minute chance of a problem.
The other assumption in most of these arguments is that emergency care in our hospital system is immediate. This flow on from this fallacy is that hospital birth is always safe and is superior in all cases. In private hospitals obstetricians and anaesthetists are off site most of the time, often called in, sometimes from their homes or beds. Large public teaching hospitals have staff 24/7 but with competing interests and pressure in these busy units ‘instant’ detection and response of a problem is rare.
As a columnist Susie feels qualified to dictate the limit of women’s rights. Homebirth is too risky for a baby therefore women must not have that choice; it is a selfish woman who puts her needs above her child. Perhaps Susie’s next column can reveal if she supports the rights of women to have a caesarean when there is no medical need? Is that OK for babies? We know that at least 30% of these babies need care from a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit simply as a result of their mode of birth. What is the limit then of the “selfish” woman – is she selfish exposing her baby to a 30% chance of a NICU visit.
Families will continue to choose homebirth. We have a responsibility to provide them with a registered midwife. Nicola Roxon’s legal background has served her well. She understands Australia’s responsibilities to international conventions such as the Convention of the Elimination Against all forms of Discrimination and case law that has established the rights of adults to determine how or not their body is treated.
Whilst many women may not choose homebirth the majority respect the rights of women to make decisions. Most do not demonise women’s choice. They also understand that parents will make thousands of decisions affecting their children. Yes, they should be responsible for those decisions and demonstrate they have made an informed decision. This applies for those choosing medical intervention as well as homebirth.
What every Australian family deserves is access to a registered health professional, Minister Roxon knows that it is possible to provide this. Homebirth care must be funded and indemnified like all medical births are. In this I am thankful that Nicola Roxon is our Health Minister rather than Susie O’Brien.
Response to Herald Sun Article - Home Births a Major Risk by Susie O'Brien. 8/06/2010
Read the Susie O'Brien article here.
Author(s):
Justine Caines
Kelly xx
Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
Registered User
Our hospital-run (or at least hospital affiliated) birth classes go into a lot of stuff you'd never expect in a hospital. The lady who runs them is an ABA fan and wants to be a lactation consultant but hasn't got the qualifications yet. The hospital tour points out the nice bath, the birth balls, the baby measuring stuff that is all in the same room, the nice landscaped patio you can go outside to pace up and down on, and the location of the tea room so you can put your labour snacks in the fridge. The standard birth policy there is virtually a checklist of things that crunchy people seem to want - baby goes straight on chest, that kind of thing. Very anti-intervention. They described the OR as "that room you really don't want to end up in". There's a very small team of midwives and only two GPs who are also OBs on the side as opposed to being pure OB/GYN, so the odds of you not knowing someone on the staff while you're in labour is very small, as they insist you get to meet ALL the midwives during antenatal care. It is one of these GP/OBs that does ceasars. She just happens to co-own the hospital. She doesn't like homebirths, but they can send midwives out to help if you wind up with an accidental one.
They sell you a nice fat brochure for $20 on birth education that is practically a book in its own right - I borrowed mine so I can't quote it and I don't know if it is specific to this one hospital or a generic brochure, but there was a VERY large section in there on the cascade of interventions and how bad they all are. I have a feeling that if it was a bigger hospital with expensive surgeons on staff that you'd be more likely to get interventions than in a small hospital where they like their natural, hands-off births. This town is a service centre for a wider farming community, so the people here are very down-to-earth and low tech.
Unfortunately there's no C-section statistics available as they just lump this hospital in with all the other non-metro hospitals in the state and there's only 40-60 births a year here, but I suspect they are quite low. My last birth there was pretty much textbook natural (my first was at a different hospital and wasn't anywhere near as good and I lost count of the number of random rubber-gloved strangers who had to check my cervix), and I'm hoping for much the same next time, so there are SOME good hospitals out there. But I might just be biased because it all went so swimmingly well last time
Registered User
:yeahthat:
and i think Freya has made a valid point re the birth classes that are generally provided by hospitals. I remember the ones we had at the private hospital that i birthed my DD in. although i enjoyed them and enjoyed the tours and felt quietly confident in my ability to achieve a birth without intervention there was NO information given regarding intervention risk vs. no intervention. it was not until i just recently finished my calmbirth class and we had an involved session on what it can actually mean to be induced (as an example) and reading Susie's OPINION piece really had the penny drop for me. in our calmbirth class our midwife explained that there is a common trend with posterior births with first time mums for babies to want to turn (ie come out face down as opposed to sunny side up). she explained that this can take a LONG time as the birth progresses 'normally' within time-limits until the baby gets to the point where they want to turn. here she explained is where things can really slow down as bubs makes the move to turn around and come out. AND it is here that she explained (as an experienced hossy midwife) that pressure is placed on a woman to intervene and augment the birth process (ie through induction measures of breaking waters/syntocin etc). she said that when this happens it increases the risk of obstructed birth as bubba's head has not been given enough time to turn and becomes 'stuck'...this is when it then is declared an emergency c-section as there is no other option for baby to come out. (from this she explained that there can be room to negotiate for more time with hossy staff if this happening before accepting augmentation...just for contextualisation!). this made so much sense when reading susie's piece, and I wonder if something similar was happening with her bubba? unfortunately i guess there is no way to ever fully know, as she probably doesnt know herself...it's just such a shame that she was made to feel so disempowered and 'broken' in her body. cause my gosh, 2.5kgs at 37 weeks is pretty frikkin' awesome! DD was 2.7 at 38+2!
Last edited by Cassius2; June 15th, 2010 at 08:12 PM.
Registered User
'Whilst many women may not choose homebirth the majority respect the rights of women to make decisions. Most do not demonise women’s choice. They also understand that parents will make thousands of decisions affecting their children. Yes, they should be responsible for those decisions and demonstrate they have made an informed decision. This applies for those choosing medical intervention as well as homebirth.
What every Australian family deserves is access to a registered health professional, Minister Roxon knows that it is possible to provide this. Homebirth care must be funded and indemnified like all medical births are. In this I am thankful that Nicola Roxon is our Health Minister rather than Susie O’Brien.'
I absolutely 100% agree with Justine Caines here. Those rights to make such decisions shouldn't be taken away.
Registered User
I cannot even begin to deal with so much of that opinion piece as it makes me so angry, but I can say that I am personally highly offended at the assertion that I am risking the life of my baby to have had her at home. On the contary, after much careful research and after my previous hospital experience I decided that it was in my child's best interest to be born at home under the care of professional, caring and committed midwives - at my expense!
BellyBelly Member
I can imagine her story is scary for any mum but a little education would highlight the many flaws in her opinion. Her awful experience with a highly intervened hospital birth in no way goes to show that HB is wrong. That's like using an example of a teacher abusing a student in the classroom at school to demonstrate that home schooling is wrong. It doesn't make sense.
Susie O'Brien does a weekly segment on The 7pm Project and I am less than impressed with a lot of her opinions. Her closing argument tonight for why we should allow our kids to go to the park alone was 'Let's face it, some kids are safer in the park than they are at home.' Just astounding.
Registered User
Exactly - it's all about being informed and making the best decision for you & your baby!
Ok, that has just confirmed she is an idiot! I wasn't even going to comment on her article b/c I felt sorry that she has a terrible time in hospital & at home with her births but sheesh woman, you need to get some perspective and find out what really went wrong & why before criticising a perfectly fine option / way to birth a baby.
Susie O'Brien does a weekly segment on The 7pm Project and I am less than impressed with a lot of her opinions. Her closing argument tonight for why we should allow our kids to go to the park alone was 'Let's face it, some kids are safer in the park than they are at home.' Just astounding.
Registered User
I wanna know why the Journo's son was induced so early because of his small size... was her placenta not working?
And correct me if I'm wrong but being induced early puts more risk for more interventions, especially if nothing is ripe?
I don't think her experience can very well be compared to a naturally induced labour, myself.
I've had about three different changes of opinion reading all this ><;; From HB being plain old scary, because lets face it, if you're pregnancy is low risk there is still the slight possibility that something can go pear shaped, and sometimes you DO need a hospital to deal with that.
But then sometimes things can go wrong in a hospital as well, and the end result can still be a stillborn baby.
While HB is not for me, I do agree with a PPer who said that making HB illegal will just drive it more underground, and prevent woman who choose the path of a home birth from getting necessary treatment if something does go wrong.
Registered User
Geez.... I don't even know what to say to that! But it has me very worked up itself at the moment. Add that to the only other rediculous oppinion of hers I've heard & she can kiss my arse & hopefully lose her place as a journo or what ever she thinks she is real soon!
These oppinions she seems to be spouting about our kids lives are going to put more children in danger just from the wrong people listening to her crap!
Maybe she should come join us here on BB where she can read the hundreds of real life experiences & RESEARCHED oppinions & maybe enter the real world of being a parent! I was never as full of myself & my oppinions as she seems to be, but I know BB opened my eyes a heck of a lot more than they were before. If anyone hears her oppinions on BFing to the NORMAL age of 2 & beyond, let me know! I would love to hear that one as well!! Not to mention co sleeping. I'm sure I should be locked up for that since I didn't homebirth... After all, it is threatening my babies life isn't it??
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