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Beckles, I agree that nobody can make another person feel guilt but far too much literature directed at parents is designed to do just that, whether it is breastfeeding, disposable nappies or whatever. My personal opinion is that it is more productive for people who have a point to make if they leave out highly emotive language. In an article based on scientific research, facts will speak for themselves.
I have actually posted it on the main site and have edited out quite a bit of the emotive language, so I do hope more will see it for the stats and facts that it does offer.
I fed Maddison for exactly 1 week, my nipples bledm she vomited blood never slept & my breasts never were full.. At the time I was sleep deprived, a single Mum living with my parents , my Mum had never fed us kids, although my Grandma had 11 live babies & all were breastfed. I have no idea & never actually asked my Mum why she never fed...?
But she did encourage me with maddy & helped as much as she could, each time I showed anyone they said she was feeding fine yet I was in extreme pain, crying & scared of my baby waking as I knew she'd want to feed! I was doing the thumper dance preparing myself for each feed... Til midnight a week after her birth, I had been letting her suckle but my breasts were empty dried up bleeding figs stuck to my chest...
I drove to a 24hr Coles grabbed a tin of formula & a bottle, burst into tears & the checkout lady hugged me!!! She told me it was Ok & it would all be OK... I drove home made a bottle of which Maddy drained & slept til the following day... She never woke again ever during the night & was sleeping 12-13hrs a night!!! I got sleep & managed to Mother my baby & look after her & function...
I was adamant I'd try again with my next baby... I posted on here numerous times requesting any info to help prepare myself, my boobs etc, etc for breastfeeding...
Where Maddison's birth was 'waters breaking on Tuesday, but no contractions, to being induced at 4am Thursday morning due to meconium in the waters, Maddy being birthed at 12:01pm Thursday, me having peth... Me being groggy & Maddy just nuzzling not really sucking!'
To Indah birth... Labour all day at home & really feel happy & in control & looking forward to birthing & meeting bubs... To arriving at hospital Monday 10:45pm with painful contractions 3mins apart (were 3 mins apart the whole day just getting stronger!) To walking around & refusing pain relief, a suck on gas which just made my jaw hurt, to walking & breathing through the contractions to hopping up on bed to have a look waters rupturing, baby distressing, being cut & Indah being handed to myself, nurses suctioning her & her looking around at us...
Midwife lifted my top & put Indah to my breast & she sucked & sucked & she kbnew exactly what to do... Maybe it was that I had no drugs & I felt empowered & in control? maybe it wasthe info from here & the determination to feed? I dont know....
But here I am after returning to work just before Indah was 5 months old & still feeding her... She has had Formula on odd occasions where I couldnt possibly get home & there was no EBM in the freezer, she is now drinking cows milk too..
I have no guilt from not feeding Maddy, I made the choice I made to go get Formula at the time without having the resources to assist me or advise me otherwise, she is a very healthy, lean , bright & happy 7+yr old & We have a strong bond & I simply dont harbour guilt for something so trivial (infact I blame others whenever I can!!! hee hee)
I do feel proud & self satisfied that Indah & I have been a great breastfeeding team, I havent exclusively Breast fed her but at 9+mths it has been her main diet & I have provided that for her, if I didnt need to rewturn to work then I know I would still be feeding... Especially when initially I started out saying "I hope I can feed this baby just to know what it's like, then I want to feed her doe 6 wks, then 3 months, once I am back at work I will slowly wean her, then 6 months... It's now past 9 months & I will continue to breastfeed her Mornings & nights & anytimes I am with her inbetween, including weekends..."
I am amazed still at what a Woman's body can achieve... with the right help...
This site has helped me in brthing knowledge & breastfeeding knowledge & I will forever be grateful to everyone on this site for the interaction & varying views on everything...
Thanks Kelly!
I thinks its fantastic when someone has such a truamatic BFing experience first time round, then goes on to feed trouble free with the next. Its great that you & Indah where able to get over the hurdles of your first Bfing experience. many 2nd time mums who had bad BFing exp & FF the first can be reluctant to try BFing with the second. Good On you!
At the homebirth conference, Robyn Thompson gave a fantastic talk and presentation, with some very disturbing images of women's nipples. Women are not supported to breastfeed properly and many expect that the hospital will teach them everything they need to know (or will know they right way to teach mum) or show them how to do it and feel a great deal of anxiety when they don't get that support. I thought my nipples were bad with my first bub, but this was revolting what we saw, nipples that were majorly hacked away in chunks and bleeding.
Women need to seek support when they get home and anytime if breastfeeding is hurting - it should not hurt and if it does, there is an attachment problem - women should seek that support before it gets worse and / or they think they cannot breastfeed. Babies should be feeding where the breast falls naturally and lined up across your body which is not hunched over, twisted, etc (which a consultant can help you with if you aren't sure), all this lining up with the thumb here or nose here etc is far too confusing. Instead of concentrating on her baby, she is concentrating on if she has the right thumb distance or nose lined up etc. Then she gets anxious, milk supply is a problem.
I just urge you all to seek out support of the ABA or a lactation consultant if you are having issues. Breastfeeding is something that should not hurt and is enjoyable - even with one of the more disturbing cases we saw images of, Robyn was able to help the mum and she was immediately able to feed without pain! Despite having terribly damaged nipples. Of course, some women are so affected by the experience that they make the decision to bottlefeed - Robyn often says that its emotive even for her - they sometimes sit and cry together. But no matter what choice, it needs to be made with love and respect, and hopefully with some good knowledge and education, we can stop breastfeeding being such a terrible experience and getting to the point where a mum no longer enjoys breastfeeding, or is in so much pain that she can't go on. Please seek help!
In regards to this article, it is not attacking those who choose to bottledfeed for this reason, it is attacking society and government and manufacturers for leading us to believe it is a better alternative or an equal alternative so that women decide to bottlefeed thinking its the best for their baby, better than breastmilk. As it also stated, formula was made so that orphans would not go hungry and die, it was a 'back-up' plan for those who couldnt have breastmilk.
Thanks,... every time I feed her I get a rush of satisfaction... It hasnt helped me lose weight though! hee hee ...But I must say it has become a part of being a mummy, that I am loving & experiencing for the first time & extremely grateful that I am getting the chance to do it! Indah loves it too!!
Kel,
I was in hospital for 4 full days after addy's birth & each time I fed I pressed the buzzer & asked for help, I watched the video & was always told (it WILL hurt initially until you get past 6wks).. They all told me it was fine & even checked my nipples after Maddy had fed.. Then the MCHN popped in on my 2nd day home & said all was fine... I explained there was bleeding etc & she said you have a small graze, it will heal, but attachment is fine & it generally takes 6 wks for nipples to toughen up...
The pain I was in by the next day was out of this world, I'd have rather birthed 5 babies in a row than feed once a day... I know NOW that I havent had a days pain or anything with Indah (other than biting!)... But I know now that breastfeeding is enjoyable for both of us & with the RIGHT Help it can work!
But before I didnt have the help & what i was getting wasnt helping me at all...
Yay Tracey :) Well done!
I sometimes wonder what my whole birth/bf/parenting experience would be like if I hadn't been on this forum. Could well have been the complete opposite.. I would probably have succumbed to painrelief, and actually been afraid of labour, my mum only fed us for about 3 months, but did scheduled feeding and timed for 10mins a feed, so her input with feeding would have hampered my efforts.. I wouldn't have been in contact with the ABA, so wouldn't have kknown much about bf at all! And parenting.. well.. it's only been 4 months so far.. but I probably would have followed my mum's lead, and done controlled crying etc etc.
I'm very grateful to everyone here too :) Now my problem is not pushing what I've learned on my friends! LOL. A friend of mine is TTC.. I will be recommending this site for her so she can learn it on her own. I know for a fact that her DH's cousin (very close to them.. and us) will be putting pressure on her to 'teach' the baby to sleep, and she's the one who had no success with bf her first, so didn't even attempt the 2nd. I'll be endeavouring to help my friend wherever I can when the time comes!
oo.. just had an idea.. Kelly.. BellyBelly should sell gift bundles of Pinky's books! LOL. I'd buy one for myself AND my friend :)
Aaaaaw you guys! That's wonderful. *sniff sniff*
Yep, It's helped me no end, coz most of my friends either have NFI, dont have kids & think they know everything or have had kids because they were married & heading into their mid late 30's & figured it wsa now or never but arent really parenting godesses like we all are here on BB!!!
Hugs to you Kel for bringing us all together & giving u the power to be informed & make choices!!!
ETA... Also learning to ignore comments from our own Mothers & families Re: Your making a rod for your own back, your spoiling them etc, etc!!!!
Hear, hear!
It's been wonderful to find a group that subscribes to the same parenting views that I do. I even bring DH on to have a look at some of the forum topics as my (now ours really) parenting style is quite different to what he'd previously seen in his family.
Back to the breastfeeding issue... I had an emergency c-section and my baby had to be taken to the special care nursery for antibiotics. DH went with her and when he came back to me I asked if he'd remembered to tell them that she was to be a breastfed baby, the nurse looking after me at the time quickly cut in with, "don't worry about breastfeeding, my daughters were all bottlefed and they turned out fine." No wonder so many mothers don't succeed if that is all the support they get!
Has anyone else seen the latest round of toddler milk ads? There seems to be a blitz of them on TV at the moment but the one I really hate is the Karicare one. For those of you who haven't seen it it has a revolting bear that says she breastfed for about 12 months but then she was worried that they weren't getting quite enough from thier solids and since she didn't want to feed them milk from another species she gives the toddler gold. Then there's a voice over about it being an important next step. The ad really ****s me on so many levels
1-that it suggests that 12 months is the appropriate time to stop BF
2-that it says that karicare is better than milk from another species. WTF?! is it made from human milk? I think not!!
3-that it subtley implies that BM isn't nutritious enough to be an adequate supplement to solids
4-that it suggests that formula is 'an important next step' as if BFing until you introduce cows milk and skipping formula alltogether would be causing your toddler to miss out on some imaginary developmental milestone
5-that bear is just plain icky!!
Maybe I'm being a bit too full on in my analysis of the ad and the messages its pushing but I doubt it. When I was watching the ad a while ago I thought about this article and the points it makes about advertising and also about how much they are pushing toddler formula because they can't push the baby formula. I geuss that if companies can get people to use toddler formulas instead of extended breastfeeding they can make alot of money.
Funnily enough karicare is the brand I give Yasin but the bear ad really makes me wish that I had suceeded in feeding him for longer and it makes me more determined to BF Imran until he's ready for cows milk. So does forking out $16 every couple of weeks at the supermarket.
I haven't seen the ad, but I know what you mean. They make it sound like a must-have.
But do you HAVE to give a toddler anything even if they're weaned? I'd like to avoid formula altogether, even if Tallon weans at 12 months (or whenever).
I haven't seen the ad either but I know a few ABA people have mentioned it on the email list I am on. I think I will be heading over to the karicare website & lodging a complaint!
Fiona I was just thinking the same thing. To even suggest what they are saying is ridiculous.
Chloe I don't think you've over analysed at all. Actually I think your pretty spot on there.
Ivana, I don't think that you have to give a toddler anything after they're weaned. Lots of babies are weaned onto cow's milk. I just like to give the formula to Yasin because he's so skinny and some days he seems to refuse everything I offer him so if he has some formula at least I know he's got some iron and calcium into him. Cow's milk with some multivitamins in it would probably be just as good for him.
Oh good. Sorry.. hope it didn't sound like I think it's bad to use formula :) I was just curious, as I have no idea of the milk-to-solids stages. hehe. I don't even know what rice cereal is or what to get, or how much to give.. and Tallon will be starting on it in a month or so! LOL. I have me some research to do! hehehe
Ohhhh I so know what you mean Chloe. Its disgusting isnt it. I mean I am so pro breastfeeding but it actually is designed to make mothers second guess themselves. If we dont have this amazing formula omg our children are really missing out...its just too ridiculous!
Jo
What an awful ad! I haven't seen them [toddler milk ads] over here, and I will make sure I won't with Liebling as our TV won't be on during the day when we do mummy-baby things; I'm guessing they're on with the children's things.
I must admit, I was in the shops yesterday and wanted to complain: the "baby accessories" area didn't have cute little jumpsuits in, or cute little toys; just bottles, dummies and sterilisers. They're not baby accessories! Accessories are to make you look cute and match an outfit, like a hat or something, not to push bottlefeeding as more fashionable!
I just emailed them. I quoted what you wrote in your post dach. hope you don't mind. I changed it a little but this is what I sent
:
I am writing in regards to your new ads being shown to promote Karicare Gold.The ad shows a mother bear that says she breastfed for about 12 months but then she was worried that they weren't getting quite enough from thier solids and since she didn't want to feed them milk from another species she gives the toddler gold. Then there's a voice over about it being an important next step. The ad really bugs me on so many levels
1-that it suggests that 12 months is the appropriate time to stop BreastFeeding
2-that it says that karicare is better than milk from another species. Is it made from human milk? I think not!! Also is it made for bear milk as the mother bear would not want to give her cubs milk from another species. I am pretty sure that Bears are not part of the BOVINE family.
3-that it subtley implies that Breast Milk isn't nutritious enough to be an adequate supplement to solids
4-that it suggests that formula is 'an important next step' as if Breastfeeding until you introduce cows milk and skipping formula alltogether would be causing your toddler to miss out on some imaginary developmental milestone
I see you have the WHO guides on your web page so I am sure I don't need to point out that it is recomended to breastfeed for the first 2 years & beyond. Not just the first 12 like your Ad suggests.
I have no problem with people using your product but I do have a major problem with parents being mislead that if they don't use it then their child is missing out on something more important then breastmilk.
I would like to see your ad revised or all together pulled. I have taken the time to contact you directly about my concern & hope that you take it seriously.
Well said Fiona. Couldn't agree more. Do let us know if they reply to you.
Don't just stop there Fiona, get it out to the media :) There is lots of discussion and complaint about follow-on formula. Money hungry buggers! Maybe you should send them this article we are talking about :)
Good for you Fiona
Jo
I also agree that those ads are irritating and make me angry. Especially the one with the paed. Good on you FionaJill for writing to them. We all should so they know how many people are not being misled by them.
I would also like to add that one of the messages I got from the article was that it is really up to us to do what we can to make people aware of bf and bring it out of the closet. We should proudly tell people how long we fed (or have been feeding for), we should proudly feed in public and ignore any criticism, and we should take opportunities to discuss why we believe in bf, and extended bfing. If those of us who are doing it don't "spread the word", others will only have the misleading info like that on those horrible toddler formula ads to go on. And for good measure we should also tell these companies that we know what they are doing is wrong!
That's my 2 cents worth...
Melanie
On 9am yesterday they were talking about it being breastfeeding week, and she was saying how good bf is for the bub etc and then she said that of course not everyone is able to do it, it's great tho if you can. Once again bf was put in the light of being something hard to do, and it's great if you can achieve it.
I agree we should come out of the closet and openly breastfeed regardless of repercussions (within reason of course! lol.. you can still do it modestly and discreetly :) ) but I also think we should stop throwing in comments like.. "of course.. not everyone can do it, and it's ok if you have to formula feed" because we're scared of making ff mums feel bad. We don't want to soften the message of "breast is best" if you know what I mean. On the show, it was pro-breastfeeding, but then they threw in that comment which then takes away from the message that we should be breastfeeding. Did that make sense? (even I'm scared of making ff mums feel bad and am worried how I've worded this!)
I so agree re the toddler milk ads. I hate them all, the paediatrician one really grates on me, as well as the nestle one with that netball player. I have never used toddler formula, I feel that it is purely and simply a marketing scam. Both my kids went onto cows milk at just over the 12 month mark. If I ever feel concerned that they are not eating enough or getting enough nutrients I will first go to my CHN or GP to see if I have a legitimate concern or am just being a touch insecure and then I would buy a childrens multivitamin if it was recommended.
Ivana as a ff mum your comments don't make me feel bad
I've just got a breastfeeding ticker to do my bit to bring it out of the closet LOL.
I agree about being more open about BFing because I know from my own experience that by doing so we can make a differance. One of my friends FF her first baby because her mother had FF her and her friends had FF so it was all she knew but after I BF Yasin and told her that almost everyone could BF and tried to give her heaps of support and encouragement she BF her second baby to 7 months and is only weaning now because she's pregnant again. I'm really proud of her for achieving it because she was told all her life that the women in her family couldn't BF so by doing so she's started a new family tradition.
My goal is to feed Elijah until he is two, I am almost there!!! I am so proud to have fed both of my children until they were two - I went through all the nipple problems with Marisa and fed through it, luckily with Elijah I have had no issues. Just reading these last few posts have really made me feel proud too, so thanks ladies :)
Hi all :)
I wont go into the negatives of the article, as Kelly warned it may be offensive. I think statistically, it's important for some people that the info is out there. I do think there is a huge lack of education across the board when it comes to breastfeeding....and this includes lactation consultants who shouldn't be practicing, as they have a severe lack of education and lack of up-to-date information regarding problems that can arise during breastfeeding and ways to treat them. I do believe that breastmilk is best...no one can deny that...but, of course, it would be equally ignorant to assume that breastmilk is best for ALL babies. I think that people need to take a step back and approach with an open mind. In my experience of being around lots of new mothers, I've only met a couple who have chosen not to breastfeed. Most I know have breastfed, and a few have not been able to breastfeed. Not being able to breastfeed is very different to CHOOSING not to breastfeed, of course. Some mothers are on medications that will travel to the breastmilk - in this case, formula is safer for baby. Some mothers have huge psychological and emotional blocks regarding breastfeeding, and it is therefore not in the best interest of the child to be breastfed, as it isn't conducive to mother-child bonding, which is such an important aspect of breastfeeding. Other mothers (5%) physically cannot breatfeed, no matter how hard they try, their bodies don't produce the milk. This is an important point, I think. Breastfeeding is wonderful, magical, and perfect. Yes, of course. Women need more support when it comes to establishing breastfeeding. However, there are many people, including professionals, who don't know of the fact, that not every woman CAN breastfeed. There is a lot of literature on trusting ones body, and it will all work out, but, like everything in life, it will not always work out. Breastfeeding is taken for granted by so many people, who need to appreciate that there are a large number of women suffering terribly because, as much as they want to, they cannot breastfeed. We all need to come together and support one another. It is rare, I think, that one turns a "blind eye" to the breastfeeding situation. Definitely, it depends on social class...if you look at where a hospital is situated and their breastfeeding statistics, it's clear that the lower-socio-economic groups tend to not breastfeed, or stop breastfeeding earlier, despite the fact that formula costs a lot. I haven't written a thesis on the subject, so I wont even try to go into the numerous reasons why this may be so....So, more support for breastfeeding mothers, or those wanting to breastfeed, education starting BEFORE a woman is pregnant, preferably at school age, better education and further requirements for lactation consultants to prove their abilities, more awareness of breastfeeding, it's problems, and the facts regarding women who cannot breastfeed, more support for women who cannot breastfeed. Women often feel self-conscious breastfeeding in public (at least for a little while, anyway). However, most women who bottle-feed (and who cannot breastfeed), are cowering even deeper into corners in public, they are so ashamed and feel threatened by those around them, they feel they have failed their babies, and that they will be perceived as bad mothers. They haven't, had formula not been invented, their babies may not have survived (and certainly the majority of formula-fed babies grow up to have healthy, long lives). My summation - breast is best, there is lack of support around the board, not all CAN breastfeed, and there is a huge lack of awareness regarding this fact. Take care all, and happy feeding, whichever way you snuggle in with your baby and nourish them. :)
I think it's the general perception that breastfeeding is great "if you can do it" is what we are trying to tackle. Many women start out with the idea that its very difficult, and not everyone can do it.. and so begins their lack of confidence, which makes it so much easier to fall back on to formula feeding.
A post earlier in this thread worded it wonderfully (quoted from the ABA I think) that breastfeeding needs to be perceived as "normal"... hang on.. will find it ;)
So the more we are out there promoting breastfeeding and making it the normal thing that it is.. the more general confidence there will be in breastfeeding.:
As an Association we now refer to breastfeeding as the biological
norm, ie there are no advantages to being breastfed rather there are
risks associated with not being breastfed........
Artificial baby milk is not a breastmilk substitute. It is a greatly inferior product. Breastfeeding is not special.
Special indicates something extra or harder work, not everyday or
normal. Breastfeeding is everyday and needs to be incorporated into
the everyday rather than seen as an extra.
Of course there is a small percentage of women who simply cannot breastfeed, but I'd say in reality there's a lot more out there who believe they are of that percentage.. but aren't really.. they just didn't have the right support to get through the difficult periods.
I dont' want to sound argumentative.. but with the 5% that physically cannot breastfeed.. do you know if they were demand feeding or schedule feeding? My mum's generation didn't seem to succeed for long with breastfeeding.. not making enuf milk etc.. but they were schedule feeding.. so of course their supply is not going to keep up. I also know a friend of mine who was schedule feeding and by 6 weeks was told that she was starving her baby, but her boobs wouldn't have had a chance to regulate themselves to the babies changing needs! She of course then didn't even attempt to bf her 2nd.
There's probably a lot of factors that contribute to these 5% not being able to breastfeed.
I believe that there are diagnosable conditions that exist and prevent women from breastfeeding like Liana has experienced, but yes it is a small percent.
Ivana_baby, I completely agree with you, there is a real lack of support. It should be known that breastfeeding is the 'norm'. I think it's a shame that women who can breastfeed maybe don't realise it, and may have a problem that can be solved with good support. However, the 5% I mentioned is the percentage of women with a true physical inability to breastfeed, I think, along with a greater awareness of this, there needs to be information saying "go get diagnosed, don't make an assumption". That is a problem, because it makes it even more difficult for the mothers who truly cannot breastfeed. So, assuming this change is made, I do disagree that the word should only be "everyone breastfeed", as it alienates those women who cannot. I believe there has to be an awareness of the whole picture, otherwise we are hurting some women while helping others, and everyone deserves support. It's a huge issue when a woman cannot breastfeed, a huge emotionally draining and mournful time, and it's so important that these woman know that it's okay, that they are still normal, it is normal to have imperfections, that is what makes us perfect. In order to make breastfeeding more desirable to those who are simply choosing not to breastfeed, I think it's really important to focus on the positives of breastfeeding, not scare tactics that leave a lot of women bullied. :)
And in such cases I think the first point of contact should be an experienced LC who sees such things on a daily basis and has formal training, unlike MCHN's who often rely too heavily on how babies fit in with charts...
So true, the diagnosis is really only involving the mother, as it's physical - a really good lactation consultant (i.e, not one that just goes, "I dunno") is the way to go.
Liana, thanks for the reminder to watch my words. Even though I know that there is a small percentage of women who genuinly can't breastfeed I still wrote that 'everyone can breastfeed' without thinking of the distress that this might cause to those women who can't. I've edited my post to read almost everyone :)
Just to add about the women who "can't" breastfeed - my SiL "had trouble" BFing and now FFs, adding solids at about 5m. However, right from birth she only fed in 3+hr intervals, not when the baby was hungry, then complained the baby would fuss at the breast. Made sense to me, has anyone else been hungry, then a few hours later just not been about to eat anything, or messed around with their food? I won't criticise SiL too much because this was the advice she was given from her health carers, but I do not wish to do this with my own child.
I don't see how the real figure can be 5% - some women's milk does come in a little later than "as soon as you give birth" (yes, I have a book that tells me milk comes in the second the baby comes out), some women create their own problems, some women are on various drugs so BFing isn't a good idea... but 5% of women can't breastfeed, no matter what? To me, that sounds like some evolutionary dead-end that would have been bred out via infant mortality centuries ago. How many animals in the wild "can't" feed their children?
I don't understand why being diagnosed with a problem makes it more difficult?:
That says it all really.. the fact that there are a LOT of women who feel bullied by these campaigns, when really there should only be those few who have been diagnosed with a problem and understand why they are unable to breastfeed. They aren't likely to feel bullied because they know why they are using formula.:
It's a hard one because its such a sensitive issue, but the general perception of breastfeeding needs to change, and everytime we soften our pro-breastfeeding statements we help justify the use of formula where bf problems may have been overcome. If you were to ask women using formula how many of them think they were "unable" to breastfeed.. they'd probably all put their hand up, and it would be far more than 5%. People latch onto the possibility that they might not be able to breastfeed, so I kinda disagree that that 5% statistic should be promoted alongside the breastfeeding campaigns.
Did that make sense? LOL.. I feel like I'm rambling when I try to explain myself!
Oh my gosh.. i can't keep up.. LOL..
Ryn - re your evolutionary dead-end.. probably not bred-out of us because we used to use wet-nurses. So babies still received the correct nourishment of breastmilk. Unfortunately today's society is so riddled with infectious diseases.. there's no way I'd let someone else nurse my baby! Altho, I spose a sister or someone could.. would be hard to watch tho, coz the baby bonds with whoever it feeds with :(
But wet nurses were not the norm for most people - only the very rich, and only in the middle of the last millenium. This should have died out back in the dark ages!
I do agree that the 5% statistic shouldn't be used though; it just seems to undermine the whole thing!