How can breastfeeding be seen as normal if....

It's funny I wasn't breastfed nor saw it being done around me growing up. I had dollies with bottles. I've never seen formula feeding as normal - always knew I would breastfeed my children. My sisters did exactly the same thing and have breastfed all their children. For us it's about education, available information and an informed choice as an adult.

I'm coming in late too... read a bit of course but haven't had a chance to reply.

I actually get all gooey on the insides when I see Matilda breastfeed her baby doll. She does have a bottle for her doll, but it usually stays in the bottom of the dolly box. She often changes nappies and then sits down where she is to breastfeed (funnily enough though she breastfeeds out her belly button :rolleyes:). I love it... I feel so proud of her when she does it because I love the fact that its natural for her. That is seen as "normal" to her.

Christy - Olivia used to b/f out of her belly button aswell.. so funny to watch

Interesting :) I agree.

Jelvie - how cool, I never saw a boy play at being Daddy before! All the boys in my Booby Club (ABA local group) play at feeding their babies. It's the loveliest thing watching kids pretend to BF their babies, next to seeing older children BFing, IMO!
I won't be getting any babies with bottles. DS has been bottlefed EBM and will continue to be when I leave him with babysitters (well, he has it out of a sippy cup, so he knows that he can get mummy milk from a cup or bottle when mummy's not there), so it's not bottles per se that I'm against. Yes, whilst bottles are part of our lives, selling bottles with baby dolls normalises bottle feeding over feeding from the breast. Yes, as individual parents we can educate our children about bottles and breasts, but I think that limiting the selling of toy bottles is a good societal move - because not all parents DO let their children know that whilst dolly has a bottle, babies are breastfed, too (thinking of the little girl on the plane with the bottlefed baby brother who was told by her mother to stop looking at me whilst BFing DS...was so sad, I should have turned and said 'it's ok, she can watch, I'd like that').
DS doesn't have many toys, in the scheme of things. He won't need toy guns...we've got rifles in the house (locked up properly, settle down!) and we'll teach him about shooting, as I intend to get my own shooting licence (I'll need it for when we move to a farm one day, for mercy killing and shooting ferals...animals, that is!), if one day I realise my fantasy of learning to fence, then DS might want to imitate that. He likes his real life stuff - at other people's houses, they'll upend a box of toys thinking it will keep him occupied and out of trouble...wrong! Anyway, that's just my philosophy on toys - DS doesn't need a toy to do real life stuff, he'll do real life stuff to real life stuff. Not sure quite what point I was thinking of when I started writing that...
I didn't have dolls that could pee. Yeah, it would have been a novelty to have one, but I don't consider that I missed an important step in anything because of it. I knew that people pee. I knew that babies wear nappies. I even knew that I wore cloth nappies as a baby and it was a huge novelty that my Cabbage Patch kid had a sposie. I would have seen it as more normal to have a cloth nappy. I would like my kids to have cloth nappied dolls! Purely because they'll be cloth wearers too, and it will make more sense to them.
My GF's 3 year old has been prepared for his sibling's arrival by being read a book I lent them, called Fast Food For Ben (from ABA, but written for La Leche League), and he has now taken to thrusting a teddy to his mummy's breast and saying it needs a breastfeed! It's the cutest thing ever - he actually says 'breastfeed'! I suspect he might play act the BFing when bubby does come along.
I cannot, for the life of me, see what is so objectionable about a child emulating BFing by lifting a top or bringing a dolly to the breast.
As for the discussion about feeding someone else's baby, don't get that objection, either. I've got a photo of me feeding my niece, with DS beside me, when my sister took my dad out fishing in NZ. They both needed the time together, as my parents and I live here and my sister lives in NZ with her DH. My niece was too young to go out on a boat, so I stayed behind and assured my sister that if her DD got hungry I would feed her. And I did just that. Neither of us batted an eyelid about it, but her DH thought it was weird. But BFing isn't very normalised in his family. I would never say that my sister's mothering was suspect because she allowed someone else to feed her baby. But I also don't have any qualms about a non-relative feeding my boy, should he be separated from me and need a consolation feed for comfort. If he'll take it, great!
There's more to 'banning the toy bottle' than just telling individual parents they are not trusted to teach their kids about BFing. It's about a broader health and parenting issue that is represented by that bottle, through at least half a century of decimating the natural act of breastfeeding in the public arena, and shaping the warped attitudes towards the most natural thing for a mammal to do in our Western culture.
In Central America, where I have family, they have dolls sold with bottles in shops. Should someone actually be able to afford these toys, they still hold BFing to be natural and normal because people in their village BF and wet nurse - the bottle is seen as a sophisticated thing to use, though. This is a bit of a danger, because it primes people for situations like the one in the Philippines...the West is advanced, and if they do certain things, then we will rise above our backwardness by doing the same. You know what I mean, I won't ram that point home anymore!
So, whilst it may seem like a trivial thing to restrict sales of bottles with baby dolls, there IS a bigger picture.
Time for bed!
Beckles, thanks for the thread :)

Mayaness, I had a similar thing happen to your plane incident. At Jack's old day care I was bfing him when I had gone to pick him up. A little girl (ff) was watching and her mother pulled her away. I said "that's ok, I don't mind her watching" but the mum took her away anyway. Such a shame!! Of course the mum didn't know that I bfed there at least 3 times a day so the little girl got to watch me plenty of times LOL!!

mayaness, well said, totally agree with you. i have bf my sisters/friends babies and they have bf mine when needed. it just wasn't a issue and certainly didn't think twice about it! you sound like my kinda mumma!
beckles

If you take the possibility of transmission of AIDS or toxic substances (alcohol, drugs, etc) from the equation, I don't have the slightest idea why anyone would have an issue with someone else BF their baby - I certainly wouldn't have qualms with someone I knew/trusted BF my son.

Jelvie, as for boys emulating their father, I had never thought of Flynn playing with a baby doll to be like his dad, but no doubt he will want to. DH is very involved with Flynn (he is parent-in-charge on the 3 days I work in the office) and will be with bub # 2 (and #3, if we are so blessed :)) so I can totally imagine Flynn watching his dad feed his siblimgs EBM and want to do the same with a doll.

well it gets worse...

Jordan's breastfeeding furore.. if it's to be believed, she reckons bottle feeding is the best thing out, wouldn't have it any other way, "I don't care what people say - you don't have to breastfeed ... I don't want a baby drinking from me - the thought of it makes me feel really funny."

Twit.

Rory, the other substances is precisely why I don't want other people BFing my baby. Well, that and the fact that I want all the snuggliness, I don't want DS looking adoringly at a friend. Actually, it would depend on the friend, now I think on it.

Some mums drink alcohol and coke and BF... I chose not to and don't want this in DS's system. Same with nuts; DH is really allergic and I can't ask someone else to list their every snack for the last week... easier not to let someone else feed, I'd be too worried. But as I would happily BF a friend's baby if needed I can't really go with the yik factor, can I?

Brilliant post Maya... y'know, had to "spread the love".

I also agree with Rory: "If you take the possibility of transmission of AIDS or toxic substances (alcohol, drugs, etc) from the equation, I don't have the slightest idea why anyone would have an issue with someone else BF their baby - I certainly wouldn't have qualms with someone I knew/trusted BF my son."

There's another good thread on a similar topic: Would you donate/recieve donated breast milk?

LMAO - BFing makes her uncomfortable but having repeated surgeries, constant pain, having to wear a steel bra at all times except during shoots and millions of pervs across the world leering over her doesn't. Couldn't make it up...

Bx

Isn't Jordan a boy's name? Oh, I hate it when news people think we know who these "celebs" are so don't use two names.

Like the other day I saw a headline about a girl named Richie... took me a minute to realise it was a last name (like Jordan is, I guess). Still none the wiser though.

Anyway, back to topic... Bath, I would donate, but not accept, for reasons of chemicals/allergens mentioned above.

LOL Jordan is only one name! But I was sure she'd gone back to using Katie Price.
People like her are not about to change their narrow thinking, so are best left to their own devices...pearls and swine comes to mind! Actually, according to a few studies I'm reading for an assignment, people like her are best reached well before bubs is born, and possibly even conceived. It's not her fault. She lives in a society where breastfeeding has been shunned for decades and treated as if it's something for poor, lower class, unsophisticated etc people. She would not be the only one for whom breastfeeding has become a warped notion, I'm sure.

As someone who feels like they were a little girls just yesterday (not really but I'm still young at heart), I have no problem with littlies bottle feeding their dollies, I bottle fed my dollies and its not something thats going to influence my feeding choices as a mother. It's a difficult discussion I guess as to how do we normalise breastfeeding. I think my main influence behind choosing to breastfeed comes from being a nurse myself and having a sister who's a midwife and absolutely drums it into me. Maybe if they looked more into it in health and PE classes and discussed it more then thats something that would help... I can never remember going through that in highschool or primary school... mainly just uni. I know of a few mums who decided to bottle feed because "breastfeeding hurt" and whatever other excuse that could be found... maybe if they had more education and support around breastfeeding in their younger days that would have changed the way they coped with it.

You make a good point Mellybubz. Pretty much anything will seem strange if it is not what you are used to. I know that things like extended bf, which I am now a huge advocate of, seemed strange to me when I first came across it, bcos is was a new thing.

It is just difficult to see things changing drastically in the short term. I agree that education in schools would be a great start. Also far more visibility of bfing mothers - but that is hard when there is still a lot of restistance to bfing in public. I guess this is why the discussions about things like dolls bottles start - dolls having bottles is just one of the many things that contribute to bottle feeding seeming normal.

I am not sure what the answer is - I think if there are positive bfing influences around a person, then exposure to a doll with a bottle does no harm. However, some kids will have dolls with bottles and no bfing influences around them. How do you think they will feed their child? And more importantly, what can be done to get more of these kids to grow up to be bfers? I think there a number of things that should be done, and the report from the Inquiry into Breastfeeding has recommended some of them. But in short, we have a long way to go, because we have to totally change the attitudes of our society in general and that is no mean feat.

I know what you mean. I remember being at my half brother and sister-in-laws (who have no kids) house last year when the topic came up she thought the idea of still bfing a 1 year old was gross. Having had slightly more experience with kids then them as my other half brother and sister in law have 3 kids who she breastfed till they were about 18 months I just said to her "have you spent much time with a one year old". They're still babies at that age and as that sister in law pointed out at that age it can also be a big comfort thing especially around sleep time.