sick of bumping, now sticking! Lol!
Printable View
sick of bumping, now sticking! Lol!
Ok to add to the debate..... my first IVF cycle I put two Day 3 embies this FET cycle I put two Day 5 embies which I had to really request for ....
BFP +++++++++++ Found out today ! I am 5 days late testing due to going away for the weekend so I tested on Monday and my Hcg was into the 1,000s so we were hoping for multiples we will see.....
Just add on to Just-waiting Brisbane's happy ending story, here is my sad-ending of my 1st IVF attempt...
15 eggs retrieved, 10 fertilised, on day 3, I have 5 grade 1 8 cells + 3 grade 2 8 cells (thrilled), and by day 5, I have one blast transfer and 1 blast frozen, we have to wait for the rest till day 6 but none of them made it (devasteted)...
And only a week after transfer, I started to bleed. The one we trasferred was a grade 2 blast...
I still think blast is the way to go...I might be just unlucky not to be in those 45%...a thought did cross my mind though, should I give day 3 grade 1 embryo a chance next time?
Time will tell...
Bei Bei I'm so sorry this cycle did not work out for you. One week after transfer you started to bleed ??? I would try to insist that your doc monitors your progesterone level next time to make sure that is kept high enough. I've read that the suppositories need to be taken three times a day and then gel (Crinone) I'm not sure about. This past cycle we checked my progesterone twice to make sure it was good. (but I had to insist) I've heard good things about having FET since it uses your own progesterone and not dependant on all the meds. The thing about using blastocycsts is that you at least know the embies you put in are fighters. Instead of several cycles of putting back embies that are less likely to succeed. For me after all these procedures I was getting to the end of my trying so I wanted what I wanted. For me Day 5 were what I wanted. I don't know if my rambling helped any, it doesn't take away the pain you must be feeling and I'm sorry.
Hey Heather,
I had my b/t result back yesterday and appearantly HCG was under 2, which nurse was suggesting that implantation didn't take place. I asked my FS if I need immunologic testing as it could cause implantation failure and he said its still early stage, after all, this is my 1st cylce. On one hand he is right, might be too quick to jump to conculsions, but on the other hand, I really don't want to go through meaningless cycles with emotional and financial stress when some stones are left unturned before I embark on another one...well, I guess I have to trust his judgement...
I have been using crinone gel twice a day 2 days after EPU, which I assume would provide good level of progesterone, but I will definately ask them to monitor it to ensure the dosage is adequate...
Thanks for the encouragment on FET cycle...which I have no idea what to anticipate...how many cycles you had altogether before your wonderful success can I ask? and did you confirm if you are going to have a singleton or twins? So happy for you though!!!
I did 5 IUIs and one IVF and had 6 frozen embies. since we don't have our u/s until May 1 I don't know how many we will have. I think with IF you just need to trust your doctor yet feel you have tried what YOU feel you need to try to make this work. The FET cycle was so much more relaxing so if you can try that you would love it. I was sore after ER and my FEt cycle was easy and relaxing. I've heard of people doing fresh IVF cycle and then freezing all embies then waiting for a FET cycle. Always a risk of losing the embies of course.
Heather
good luck with your ultrasound tomorrow Heather! it will be so interesting to see if you have one or two littlies in there!
Hi Sushee
Ive just had a FET with a 3 and 8 cell embryo put back. does the 8 cell have greater chance of taking or is pretty much a much of a muchness????
Hi collo,
it is commonly believed that the more advanced an embryo is, the better the chances of it being viable. But I'm going to say this, I have known many women who have put in two embryos of varying qualities who have gone on to have twins, or even women who have had a 'poor' quality embryo transferred who then went on to have successful pgs.
I think that while the medicos would prefer an advanced embryo, I don't believe that it means your 3 cell doesn't have as good a chance of implanting. IVF is such an inexact science. I reckon where there is life there is hope.
Thanks Sushi this is all a bit of mystery to me. Im glad there are people around like you to exp[lain this in simple terms.. So when do you think I could test? AF isnt due for another 6 days normally I get really sore boobies and spotting around now and all I have is cramping dont know if that means anything but I hope it does:)
Collo,
as long as you're not on pregnyl I would probably test on cd26/12dpo. It's still early (anything before when AF is due is early) so don't expect it to be accurate. Well, unless it's +ve, then of course it's accurate! LOLOL!
Hi Guys,
I'm only new to this site, and hope it' o.k for me to put me two cents in. On July 9th I've received my BFP after 3 stimulates cylce and 2 frozen. I had 3 transfers with embryos at 5/6 (Blast) prior to my BFP. I had all my embryos using ICIS with PGD (no choice, husabnd has a genetic disease). A girlfriend of mine fell pregnant first go on IVF with a 2 day embryo. So really, when you think about it, I have a total of 5 embies at blast stage and 3 failed. My last attempt, I had 2 placed back in, due for my first ultrasound 31/7 to see whether we are carring one or two. So it doesn't really matter whether you place the embies back at day2/3 or blast stage, if they are meant to be with you they will stick around.
Helen
me..27yo DH ...29yo
1# ICIS with PGD ... no transfer
1# FET .. BFN
2# ICIS with PGD ... BFN
3# ICIS with PGD ... BFN
2# FET ... BFP
Helen you are right --- if they are meant to stick around they will. I describe IF like Roulette -- you just need to keep rolling the dice and when you number comes up you WIN. Sometimes (like my situation) it made feel better to do things "my way" and feel like I had done what I thought would work for me. Other times we just check off things on our IF "TO DO" list until we have felt like we have tried everything.
Well, I just realized I didn't get back to this thread to inform you that we are having TWINS and we found out we are having two girls !!
I'm sending a truck load of baby dust to each of you.
Heather
This is our first cycle of IVF, and although im still on injections fingers crossed i get a date for EPU tomorrow, the nurse explained to us that we would be having a blast 4-5 day transfer. I sort of understand it, and am really interested to hear the success rate in comparrison to a day 2-3 transfer? Does it make a difference? or does it really depend on the individual?? Its so confusing and interesting all at the same time.
TIA for your wealth of knowledge xx
:hello: All the best on your first IVF cycle ! All this stuff does get very very interesting. I think the vast of information kept me involved and TTC longer. So I guess you need to decide how many to put back when Egg Transfer (ET) time comes.
fingers crossed and toes !
Hi:
I hope I dont sound like a bimbo but what is a BLAST cycle and 2 day transfer all mean........Can someone please explain it to me in dummy terms????
Hi Guys:
i had a 5 day blast transferrred. I started off with 9 eggs, one to be destroyed and 7 out of 8 fertilised. Then we ended up transferring one on day 5 day with 3 to be frozen. I am now awaiting my pregnancy test which is in 8 days. God Im scared...I feel the chances of it NOT happening are higher then the chances of them HAPPENING.....but after reading all your stories..maybe I have nothing to worry about....can someone re assure me of this??????
Carla I read the odds and we have gone with Blasts my FS belives it is stonger for us with ICSI. Please hang in there
We are going to Blasts as that is all my clinc does. I asked that if they weren't doing well on day 2 or 3 would they transfer them, and they said no
Tigger..Hi..
AF arrived this morning...Im devastated.
Carla sorry to hear that
Hi everyone,
I did first fresh transfer end of Sept 07 by ICSI then I got bleeding 14 days later (due day AF), I had b/t with 34hcg, maybe first time I didn't get p/g or chemical pg (I hate to use term miscarriage). I continued the second attempt FET on 8/11/07 with no crinone support and got BFP with 335hcg 18DFO, I was very happy but on first ultra scan 2 weeks after that, there was nothing in my u/t then I got miscarriage on the same day. This time I sure I lost my embie by m/c. Both time we transferred by day 2 and only 1 embie put back each time. I devasted and disappointed and want having a break time until next year. Next time we want to thaw 2 embryos into blastocyst to see if which embryo survive to transfer, if both good we will frozen 1 and transfer one. We are now having 5 frozen embryos left. Please advise me this way can have better chance, like Heather said we should do what we feel like to do. I agree ICSI is inexact science and if embryo want to stick, it will but I want to do what i assume it's good for me. Thanks
Hi Mai1974
this is a late reply. you've probably moved on since your last posting, maybe feeling a little less stressed. I am also doing ICSI, last transfer of fresh blast didn't take. Out of all fertilised eggs only one made it to blast. It's a tough business this growing to blast outside of your uterus. In normal conception from day 3 to 5 is when the cells move from the fallopian tube to the uterus and so in the lab the culturing technique has to be perfect for it to survive. They actually have to take it out of the culture it was in till day 3 and put it in a new culture til day 5 or 6. I had one that made it and 4 that almost did.
I am going to try another round aiming for a blast as that is what the clinic believes best and I guess I'll give it one more go and after that if I loose them all again, I will demand day three transfers from then on. I got one blast out of five eggs, so next round of harvesting if I am using stronger med's I hoepfully might make up to ten and then maybe I might get 2 blasts. The survival rate is really small, you have to be prepared to risk losing them. I hadn't expected it and was devastated.
It is hard to know what is best, trust your instincts. You can always try again, seek other opinions. Good luck, hang in there!!!!
Quick question What amount of cells are blast developed too? Found the answer!
Hi SuziQ,
Thanks for your entry to this topic and providing the information you found on the ACCESS site. I have been going through IVF as a single person since 2005. My last attempt at age 43 I had 10 eggs and so went to blastocyst, at day three I had 9 embryo's at various cells from Morula stage down to only 3 cells. By day 5 I had only 2 embryo's left, whilst I asked the scientist to keep the other 5 overnight...they didn't make it. So the disappointment of going to blastocyst is having no frozen cycles to do, also I had a pgn just after Easter so am still very raw with sadness. After reading the articles and the different personal experiences from yourself, Sushee and Abs I will speak to my doctor again and re-assess the who blastocyst V's 3 day transfer. I'm not getting any younger and don't have time to waist so any new information is very helpful...thanks. DM
Just thought I would add something to this interesting debate. Personally, I do feel that not every embie that doesn't make it to day 5 wouldn't have made it in the body and have certainly heard plenty of stories of "poor" looking day2/3 embies ( that would be thought not to have made it to day 5) which went on to preduce healthy babies.
However, I read very recently ( sorry can't remember where) that there is NO correlation at all between what an embie looks like at day 3 and its potential to get to blast. From first hand experience, I have just finished a round of IVF/PGD ( sadly not successful). I got a summary of the embryology report and the grade of day 3 embies didn't really predict at all what they looked like a few days later. One of my B grade day 3 embies turned out to be the best by day 4 and was actually transferred
My point in all this, is that maybe the thinking that "poor" day 2/3 embies would never have become children if were left to go to day 5, is not necessarily true. They could well have fought on and become great blasts which still would have been transferred to bring a healthy pg. Similarly, transferring the "best" day 3 embie isn't going to guarantee the one that truly can go the distance. I guess I am still leaning in favour of the blast transfer.
Hi MeridithD.
I have read some medical research on the matter and it indicated that blast transfer is more successful because of more or less the explanation you have given. My success with blasts is a testament of this. However, growing blast require better lab environment than day 3 and if your clinic is not equip with the right "stuff" your embies might not have their proper chances. Also not all people are suitable for blasts as they are harder to cultivate and many FS prefers to give the good day 3 embies a go "in the natural evironment".
I had very excellent day 3 (one after thawing was at 10 cell stage, the others at 8 or 9) but I still had an BFN.
;) just thought i would put in my bit so far
were now pg off putting in 2x day 3 embies :clap:
1 x 4 cell very fragmented and 1 x 3 cell embie
this was an emby from ivf-icsi # 3 and it was a fet #1
I thought I would share our story/experience as we finally had success after trying day 2, day 3 and blastocyst transfers across 9 cycles/7 transfers.
My egg quality is shot and I was unable to produce many eggs at all over the 6 cycles/4 transfers with my own eggs. Only once did I produce enough eggs for them to do a blastocyst transfer. It didn't work. We didn't manage to get any embryos left over for freezing on any of our cycles.
My sister is my egg donor and for the first 2 cycles with her we transferred a day 5/blastocyst but even with her eggs we didn't get any left over embryos to freeze. We were successful on the 2nd try but had a m/c at 10 weeks probably due to unviable embryo.
For our third and final cycle with my sister we talked with the embryologist beforehand about our feelings that we would never get any to freeze if we tried to go to blastocyst and we felt we were throwing away possible babies. She agreed to do a 2 day transfer and freeze the remainder for our backup. Prior to this experience, we had never had the opportunity to discuss with an embryologist other factors that we may need to take into our decision on when to transfer. Some clinics just assume a day 5 transfer if you don't question them up front or even look at what your results are day by day after transfer.
Amazingly on our final egg donor cycle with one 2 day 4 cell embryo we are now 8 months pregnant with 3 frosties in the fridge.
For us it came down to realising that even with my sister as a donor our chances of doing any more than transferring one day 5 embryo was slim and that we needed to give her the respect of giving the other embryos their chance too by freezing early and transferring early.
I think the decision for 2/3 day versus 5 day transfer has to take into account your previous cycle history if you have one, plus how many embryos you manage to create at day 1. If you only have 2-4 embryos at day 2 then IMO put the best one back as they are better off in you than in a petri dish which may not give them the best chance to get them to implant and create a baby. However, if you have 10-12 embryos at day 1-2 then there is more chance you will be able to choose the best embryo for transfer at day 5 and also have some put in the freezer (although this is never guaranteed).
Many Australian clinics these days have very strict rules about freezing embryos (in particular blastocysts) that only meet the highest of criteria. So even if you have a lovely looking day 5 blastocyst if it doesn't exhibit the criteria they want on day 6 they will discard it rather than freeze it. Many people are very disappointed on hearing that their Day 6 embryo(s) didn't make the grade and were not saved. I have my own thoughts about why this criteria has been developed, based on science and clinic's 'success' statistics but not taking into consideration that even with a lower chance of an embryo surviving thaw that it still represent the hope of a child of many IF couples who, like us, had limited chances or choices to do further cycles whether it be because of poor egg quality numbers, health implications or just running out of funds to do endless cycles.
These are just my thoughts.