Sara - I am sorry. I was so hopeful for you. Which brand of POAS (any chance that it was too soon for the test you used?). It is a very hard jouney.
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Sara - I am sorry. I was so hopeful for you. Which brand of POAS (any chance that it was too soon for the test you used?). It is a very hard jouney.
Don't think so - I used First Response.
Sara
I find those to be good. I am really sorry. How are you doing (I know you must be really sad)?
Do you have next steps in mind or will you take some time?
I am so gutted for you...those symptoms from a stim cycle really mess up your mind, I knew it first hand from my last cycle when I was so sure and hopeful, I know exactly how you feel atm hun...no words just big :hug: and look after yourself...
Thanks for your support CPie &Julie
You know there is not really any other option for me since I haven't got a child - just thought this morning if I already had one I'd be out of here as fast that you wouldn't see my tail lights. It's kind of a really destructive thing to do to yourself going through this process - may however all be worth it if it works out. Or is it?
So will probably ask my FS some questions on how to deal with empty follicle syndrom, check if flare cycle would be a better option than antagonist for me and then go in for FSH check in four weeks. Already started back on DHEA and CQ10.
If I am not convinced with the answers from my FS to my questions I may go and get a second option, probably to Dr Lok or possibly check out Monash IVF. So I may give myself at least one more go with my own eggs and investigate donor eggs in between, may look at that if the next cycle does not work out.
But in this case will probably take a long break first, have a holiday somewhere interesting and if the Safety Net goes all bets are off obviously.
One more thing - the girl collecting my bloods this morning is someone I had a few times and really got on well with - she told me she had been made redundant! SIVF has a restructure and sacked 22, employing 15 new staff, really hope this doesn't affect any of the other nurses that I really like. Very angry about it, as if they wouldn't already make enough money on all this - putting poeple out on the street in this economic climate because of a restructure is very bad form indeed.
Sara
Sara - I went to see a new FS at Monash today (my current FS is at Melbourne...and I think I can now call her my First FS or my Old FS), as I am making the switch - I already paid the Monash admin fee and set up some of the required appointments. I can explain why and what she is doing - I will come back here tonight and post - it's too long and I'm pressed for time at the moment. I can tell you that I was very reluctant to change - thought it would be a hassle, thought I'd have a hard time telling my current FS and getting my file, thought it would set me back, etc. Not one of those concerns was valid. I have no basis for saying the following, but I am not sure how much of a difference a different FS at the same clinic will have - they share info, use the same lab, and follow similar protocols (that is just my opinion and I don't mean to discourage you). I do think that by going to a different FS at a different clinic there is more possibility of really shaking things up and finding a different approach.
We too are taking a holiday - just waiting for DH's leave approval to come through, mine already has which I'm thrilled about.
I don't get it - how can they sack 22 but hire 15 - why not just sack 7? unless the skill sets are different, but really can't imagine that as the clinic only does 1 thing. Also, as you said, if they are anything like I've seen here, they certainly aren't hurting for business. It's sad that you won't be seeing the faces that you are comfortable with...although sounds like you may be sacking the whole clinic!
Sara - I am so, so sorry that it doesn' t look good this time. So unfair! I hope your FS can give you some renewed hope. If not, then a change of clinic and Dr may well be worth it for you. No harm in trying something different eh?
I hope you can find somewhere lovely to holiday soon and at least try and take your mind of things a touch
Buliej - I will reply to your PM soon. SOOOO glad Lynn was able to offer you something different - could be just what you need
Also know just how you must feel with the ongoing m/c probs. I have had D&C for all of them ( except this one's twin obviously) and have had retained product 3 times. Twice neededing repeat D&Cs. Its just horrible to not be able to move on physically at least.... makes the emotional job a lot harder. Hope your body can clear things out on its own
Sara: I am so sorry, hon. I truly wished that this was your time for a miracle. :comfort: Did you get your BT result yet?
Julie: :comfort: :comfort: :comfort:
Everyone I missed: :hello:
AFM, not great news today; DH told me last night that he wants to take a break and pretty much that he just doesn?t want to hear about it (donors or anything affiliated with TTC) anymore. I was talking to my mum about it last night (God bless her) and have decided that if he isn?t willing to continue trying and move on to a donor egg/embryo then I?m probably going to go ahead and do it on my own without him. The fact that he'd rather see me keep going through the pain of IVF and failure after failure and will now not even consider moving onto something else has infuriated me. I suppose this has all been coming for a long time; we've been TTC for 4 1/2 years now and he's been on a slippery slope for the last year or so. I pray that he ups his game (he's only 28 so I keep praying that he'll grow up SOON) between now and when he gets home (he's still away for almost another three weeks), otherwise I may be moving forward by myself. He's always wanted children, but has never been involved in the treatment process, I've been left to handle that aspect virtually on my own. I can count on my right hand the number of times he's been to an appointment with me in more than four years, and on no fingers the number of articles, websites, etc. that he's read or researched, plus the number of people he's suggested we talk to. Quite frankly, my DH's contribution to IVF has been the occasional orgasm and a blood test. Not a bad day's work if I do say so myself. Truth be told, I just feel sad for him that he can't see the forest for the trees. Freakin' men... :(
Sara, glad you have planned moving forward...sounds good with the holiday plan and potentially changing FS.
As you know I did the same, although with the same clinic, I didn't choose to change clinics because I think SIVF is the best, I would only go downhill to choose IVFA, so that wasn't within my consideration. But I do found that each FS has their particular techniques, so still worthwhile to explore, for me, is the transfer and FS's attitude. My previous FS never does u/s guided TF, he just checked it afterwards. But Dr. Lok is an expert on doing the external u/s guide to make sure embyro is in the right place. My previous TFs were eventful, almost everytime have to do it twice because of my retroverted uterus but with Lok, its a breeze. Plus he is willing to take male factor more seriously which was our problem at the time (high SCSA). Also the advantage of transfering within the same clinic is the paper work, they share everything, so no drama at all.
I am shocked to hear they are sacking people, I am with Julie, why don't they just sack 7? I do remember there was a new girl taking my blood a few weeks ago...I hope the one you are talking about is not Michelle, she is my favourate one.
Julie, glad you are having a break too...sounds like you are making some changes too, I hope it all works out for you...
Kel, sorry to hear that DH's lack of interest of keep going. I have to say, this TTC journey is not for faint hearted, it is tough road as we all know. It is hard for them to understand what exactly we are going through. Just the other day, DH has to do an u/s to check vericolcele (?spelling) and suddenly he can kind of related what I've been through physically during the cycle and how I feel, I was quite surprised when he told me that and at least he showed some empathy...I think anyone who has gone through serveral cycles of IVF are tough women, but that doesn't neccessarily say we don't need support, especially the partners. I truely hope you can have a heart-to-heart talk with DH and reach some kind of agreement, TTC journey is already tough enough, I really don't want to see you doing this yourself. Would he want to be involved say if you are going down the donor egg/embyro path?
Thanks girls for your support, just got the call ....my estrogen still at 600 so will take a few days until AF comes, my FS will call me today or tomorrow, also can talk to the counsellor tomorrow.
CPie: What you're saying is interesting, actually your old FS did my transfer and I wasn't too impressed with him. Hope your appointment goes well tomorrow, keep us up-todate.
Kel: Sorry to hear that, do you think he would consider going to counselling with you?
Sara
Kel - so sorry that you also have to battle (so to speak) with DH as well - as if it's not tough enough already. I can't really complain about my DH, but I will say that he hasn't read 1 thing - nada - not 1 of the handouts, nothing on the web, etc. It became so apparent after the meeting we had today with New FS - I understood everything because of bellybelly and all the other time I put into researching what protocols different places use etc. I also knew of every single supplement she said he should take (I'll post these tonight in case anyone is interested). But I would expect your husband to be supportive - do you think that there's a chance that he is really devastated and disappointed, but has not been able to communicate this in a productive way, so this is his way of dealing with it? I often find that my DH has been thinking about things and mourning in his own way - but I find out well after the fact when all along I thought he was just rolling with the punches.
CP - that's interesting that the 2 drs at the same clinic are so different - I don't think that is the case at Melb IVF, but I'm not sure. I did always feel like I was just being sent down a stand path (try A, if A doesn't work, try B, if B doesn't work, try C - with the A, B, Cs being stock standard), and not because my FS was lazy or anything like that - she's a very caring person who always explained the reasons, but I kept on getting the sense that the approach was behind the times (before I had info on Monash and Meredith's recommendation, I gave a lot of thought of going to Syd for treatment as I have heard really, really good things). Good luck tomorrow.
CP - Just one question - how did you go about it - did you just call Dr Lok and make an appointment or did you talk to him first on the phone/email?
Sara
Dear sweet Sara - I am so sorry. Believe me when I tell you I am feeling your pain as I am still raw from mine. My heart goes out to you. It is so cruel and unjust and I am so sorry for us all. Take care of yourself. Am here for you anytime you need to talk.
Kel - so sorry you are going thru these troubles. IVF and all its dramas is certainly enough on it's own. I hope you guys are able to work it all out..
Thank you Lulu - hope you also will feel better soon.
Girls - If any of you have done a flare cycle I would really appreciate to get any info on in what way it's different to an antagonist cycle and your experiences - I've also posted a thread about it in this forum.
https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...ml#post1760784
Sara
Sara, I just made an appt with him first. He has city, burwood and liverpool practice (I seriously don't know how he handles all these and day surgery but that's another topic) and work in different clinics on different days. Just check which one you can get in first...I went to the Liverpool one for the first time but city (kent street one) thereafter.
Looking back, I think I over thought it too much. How will my FS feeling etc etc....I was trying to pre-warn my FS before my appt with Dr. Lok...but he didn't take it very well. If I'd do it again, I 'd just go to see Dr. Lok without mentioning anything to the current FS, once happy with him, simply inform the current FS that I am changing FS, and that's it, full stop. Sometimes, trying to consider too much of other people's feeling under this circumstance is not adding any convenience to ourselves, nothing personal, but if it is not working for us, it is downright our decision what to do. Not to mention how much $$$ we are throwing at them.
Nevertheless, there has never been a problem of transfering any paper work of any sort, Dr. Lok can get it on the computer from patient file anyway. Good luck hun!
Thanks, ladies. I understand how helpless, and robbed, he must feel sometimes, but I just keep remembering all of the crappy things he's done - and not done - since we began TTC. When they p*** you off or let you down, you remember all the bad things, so I'm having a great deal of trouble thinking of any good things at the moment.
I suppose that the main component of my absolute disappointment is that I have said over and over and over that if I take a 'break' then it will be the end of TTC for me. I am terrified that if I stop I won't be able to gather the courage or strength to start again. At least when you're doing it over and over again, you feel like you're just being carried by the momentum, like you're doing it because you can't do nothing. So, my DH knows that if I stop I won't start again, and I fear that that is being used by him to his advantage. Being scared of the disappointments and the heartache is one thing; being a selfish coward is another. The worst thing is, even though it's sad in it's own right to have to move on to a donor, I don't feel sad about it at all, just truly hopeful. Honest, genuine hope for the first time in a very, very long time. My DH knows that and has still put himself over us, and me, again. I felt like a ten ton weight had been lifted from my shoulders when I went on the donor registers, explained that to DH, and still he would rather run and hide. I feel like I'm being punished for not being able to have 'our' baby. I think my biggest mistake here was letting him think that the final decision was his, and not ours, to make.
Sometimes I wonder why I'm trying so desperately to have a child when I'm already trying to raise one!
Oh Kel, I just read your post and my heart just goes out to you. This Whole TTC journey puts a lot of strain on our relationships and from your signiture I can see that yours is a particularily difficult journey. Especially compared with my relatively easy run so far. Can I suggest talking with your clinic councellor it may help. In reagrds to taking a break. I took six months break last year after 4 back to back failed cycles. I thought at the time that I wouldn't go back that the pain wasn't worth it. But as time went by i realised that it really was what I wanted. Taking the break and the step back from the nightmare of BT and needles and scans made me realise that another child was worth all the sacrifices that we are making. I couldn't make this clear judgement while I was still cycling. Please dont fell that I am butting in as I am a stranger to you I was just reading and feeling you pain. please if there is anything I can do just PM me.
Kel :hug: I also think I can understand being driven and wanting to just stay in the flow with it - When I had the termination of the affected baby I wanted to start IVF immediately. My DH was absolutely against it, over the next six months I was able to pick myself up and started to get over the pain of losing the baby but he fell into a deep dpression which ultimately ended our relationship.
There would have probably been ways for both of us to work on it a better and we might have stayed together. However, he has just married and I am very happy with DP - what I want to say is that there are several options in life and they all can lead to happiness. BTW - with both of them I can understand the feeling that you already have a child on your side that your'e trying to raise :rolleyes:
I think you can only do what you feel is right but would also support Saph in the way that if you're not already talking to a counsellor it would be a good idea to do so and talk to someone independent, while family and friends can give good support a counsellor might be better qualified to help you make the right decision. Consider taking at least a short break (even a weekend away in a health resort might help) before making a decision, I dearly hope you will find peace and make the right decison for yourself - very happy to talk further via PM if you like.
AFM - AF arrived this morning, it's okay as I just want to get it done and over with - just talked to the clinic counsellor which was of some help but I think I will need a little time to get over the disappointment, thinking of going away the weekend after next to a health resort to get back to basics so to speak. Thank you very much for your support over this cycle, it was very helpful - wouldn't been able to get through this otherwise.
Sara
Kel - Men are truly from another planet and i totally understand the issues you are having. Have been and still am travelling a similar journey with my DH. Mine never comes to appts, knows what drugs i'm on etc. Just turns up to deliver his "sample"... thats it! I do however, think that men feel a bit helpless with it all. They can't take the needles, BTs etc for you. That is a burden that cannot be shared. I don't think its within the male makeup to realise they don't have to actually DO anything to be of help. Just coming with us or "being there" emotionally for support would be enough for most of us but men are 'fixers". if they can't fix it then they feel they can't do anything.
We are also driven by the hormones both natural and introduced... it DOES mess with your brain and I think leads to TTC as an obsession. I would certainly admit that I have become obsessed by the whole thing. Nothing much else in life interests me that much and it drives my DH crazy because he doesn't feel the same way. I am not sure any man can.
I agree with the otheres that you need to give yourself a touch of breathing space just to sort through things when you are not so "raw" from a failed cycle. I do think doing it all solo would be very tough, no matter how unsupportive DH might be. You also don't want to be 5yrs down the track, possibly with a child but regretting that your marriage is over and maybe could have been saved.
Wait until DH is home so you can talk face to face and maybe you can both come to a compromise. I do think he needs to realise the hope that could come with using donor eggs/emryos. At east with eggs, he can still be the child's biological father and you still get to carry and birth the child.... which to me personally,is the most major aspect of becoming a "mother". My sister has a donor egg child and he is totally and utterly "hers". She carried him, birthed him, breastfed him etc etc. None of us percieve it any other way. You have obviously come to peace with this idea. I do think he should be able to to.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling but i really do get where you are at. I love my DH but there have been plenty of times I've resented him immensely for what i percieved as lack of support.
sara - My heart goes out to you. You are sounding very brave. I must admit. I am glad you are keeping busy with planning for the future. I think thats all you can do to keep yourself going and not fall in a heap. The future at least holds some hope. Even if you are undecided about changing clinic/Dr's, maybe at least go have appt with someone else to hear another perspective. Julie heard far different treatment approach from a new FS . Not all Dr's are the same and you need to know you are trying EVERYTHING to achieve your dream
Lulu - sending you big hugs to. I don't honestly know how you keep picking yourself up again. An amazing person you are!
very quick note - I plan on posting the protocol new FS has recommended in the Older Women thread but have not had time...I do want to share it with you all and get opinions - just need to find the time to read the little material she gave me & put it together in some coherent way.
will bbl with personals as well...
Sweet Sara - I was so sorry to log on to BB just now and read this cycle did not result in your much longed for BFP. Once again, you have made it one step further - this time to transfer. Every cycle is improving. I understand your wanting to change FS. You have done a few cycles now and a fresh approach is warranted. BTW, remember to keep up the DHEA (I don't know if you chose to stop). Maybe it was already gradually improving things?
I have been thinking a lot about why my cycle this time around worked out better. I am not entirely sure it was the DHEA. You know that my first (down reg) cycle was cancelled (needed a bigger dose of Puregon). Then, not wanting to waste time and because of the whole Christmas break and IVF closing, etc, I followed immediately with a (Orgalutron) back-to-back cycle. I got three less eggs but got to transfer. BFN. I then had the chemical PG (like a month off) and then tried my third and successful cycle (Orgalutron). This time I got the same number of eggs as the first cycle, but the quality had improved.
So the main differences were:
1. It was not a back to back cycle. My FS had warned me between cancelled Cycle 1 and Cycle 2 the next month that it can result in less eggs.
2. Just over 2 months of DHEA (except for the couple of days with the chemical PG)
3. Royal Jelly
4. Increase of FSH over first cancelled cycle, and changed from Puregon to Gonal-F.
5. DH has been sprinkling MACA root powder on his cereal each morning - great for swimmers
At the time of my BFP, I was told every cycle is different. But I thought I would share this with you, as I did 3 cycles over 4 months.
Kel - I too am sorry to read you are at odds right now with your partner over the TTC IVF journey. I thought Saph's suggestion of using your clinic's IVF councillor was a good idea - do you think he would go with you? Perhaps a little holiday/weekend getaway of some kind and enjoying each other will make it easier to open up. IVF is physically and emotionally draining and the guys do have it pretty good in terms of supplying their blood and swimmer samples. But I think it does hurt them to see us go through what we do. Hopefully he just needs a little time. I get what you mean about being worried about "taking a break" and finding it hard to start again. But your body has been through a huge ordeal and needs a little time to recover. Take care xx
A big :hug: for Julie
:hello: to Cuddlepie, Meredith, WLAB, Lisa and MsPink
WTH: Thanks so much for sharing, this is really helpful - there is one thing I wanted to ask you, I remember that with your first transfer you called it the super embie as it was a large blastocyst - I had similar comments from the scientist this time around - mine was a Day 6 transfer of a fully hatched blastocyst - I am now wondering if a Day 6 transfer may just be too late and the chances may be smaller if the embie is already grown too large? Would be interested if you have any thoughts on this. I don't really remember but thought your second transfer may have already been on Day 5 - is this correct?
On the back-to-back cycle - I had considered when it looked like I wouldn't have a transfer - I have now decided that I am emotionally and physically not ready for another cycle so will definitely wait for four weeks.
Sara
Sara - this I can help you on. I actually was a bit peeved about the first transfer. Yes it was Day 6 - and yes, they had to use a larger pipette. The embryologist said it was the biggest embryo she had seen transferred - it was multiplying rapidly. They kept reassuring me that the embryo itself was perfect. I was annoyed, as my understanding from what happened is they had already removed the cells for biopsy on Day 5. I believe they may also have dropped the DNA colour probe on it the day before as well. But this takes two hours to kick in, and it was closing time. So they were biopsied the next morning. But the FS booked to do my transfer was not available until 2pm! We arrived on time, but he was late. So 3 o'clock transfer. If only my embryo had been ready just a couple of hours earlier on Day 5 it would have been transferred late that day! In fairness, in my case, things also take longer, as I was having 8 tests done. This is done in two rounds (5 chromosone, then 3 extra chromosones) and has to be double-checked by the second scientist. Sorry about my rant, but yes, I do wonder... Now scientifically, I was told Day 5 blasts to have "a slightly better implantation rate". Apparently implantation happens around 36 hours after transfer with a Day 5 blast. I was told by about Day 7-8, the embryo loses it's quality. So in my case, my first transfer would have been trying to implant around that time.
Thank you WTH - that is exactly what I was thinking - will take it up with my FS. I am currently putting together a list of questions to email to her so that we can discuss them next week.
Sara
Hi everyone
Sara - I posted the stuff about my new protocol in the Older Women's thread - so I won't bother to post it here as it's long.
Kel - everyone here has said everything I was going to say and then some. You sound like you are a very strong person. And you also have a very definite idea of your priorities. These qualities are sure to help you reach your goal. Can I ask a personal question which of course you can ignore - if you go the donor path, will your husband stay by your side? I ask, because if this is an issue, you are taking a lot on (which I admire) and I hope for you that you have lots of support and other people to hold your hand and give you a hug when you need it (sounds like your mom is great)...plus we are all here as well.:D
Hi WTH, MeredithD, C'Pie, Saph, Lulu, WLAB and anyone else out there...
Thanks Buliej, have seen it, think I'll add that to the list of questions for my FS - think it would be agood idea to post it here too as it sounds like an interesting new approach.
It's Friday, yeah - can't tell you how much forward I am looking to the weekend.
Question: Okay it's pprobably a stupid question but I am wondering if there is anything wrong with my, my boobs are still really sore and AF is very heavy much more than usually - is that normal after a ET? Also think my ovariers are still sore as I am finding it very hard to do any sort of exercise like fast powerwalking.
Sara
Sara - not sure about the boob part as acupuncture actually did away with my pre-AF boob tenderness. As for the sore ovaries - Mine would take at least 2-3 weeks to feel better. I'm sure everyone is different but I am always quite uncomfortable for a while. Asked my FS - it is nothing to worry about and is quite normal.
Thanks Julie, I called the clinic as well and the nurse said it's normal.
But sorry for the whinge this is physically and emotionally so much worse to get over, I really didn't expect this.
I am one of the lucky ones who usually don't have any heavy periods and it's eye opening to have areally bad one - I used six normal sized tampons yesterday normally on the worst day it's three - sorry for TMI
Feeling completely exhausted and quite painful. Was planning to do a bushwalk tomorrow but don't think that willl be possible.
Sara
Sara - that's a lot of tampons! sounds like a sure sign that your body has been through a lot. I would imagine that this indicates your hormones are all amuck - no wonder you are feeling like you do. And of course, the disappointment. There are so many threads and posts about feeling this way after a non-successful cycle - you are not alone and what you are feeling is normal. Hope you are able to get out tomorrow and do some kind of walk just to clear your head ... if not, maybe there's something else you can do that will allow you to escape for a few hours.
Sara can I say I know what you are going through. My Af is always heavier after stims, but to make you feel a little better on my heaviest day I go through a super tampon every half and hour to an hour. They tell me that I shouldn't use tampons when it is like this but I will stand up and everything will completely flood without them. My AF have been unbelievably heavy since the birth of DS. I even rang health direct (before starting AC) to see if there was something wrong with me. I know TMI but I also get big clots nurse has told me that it is from all the hormones. Hope this hasn't grossed anyone out and is helpful or comforting somewhat.
Actually Saph it really helps to know, I talked to my sister yesterday and she also normally goes to a few super tampons on her worst day which made me feel a bit better. Stayed in bed all day yesterday just reading a book and then went ourt for dinner with friends, now feeling suitably restored this morning that I think I can dare going on the walk (its 11km but mostly on firetrails so shouldn't be too hard).
Julie: How are you going - hope you are able to a void D& C and are felling better.
Have a great Sunday everyone,
Sara
Sara, I hope you are gaining your strength now and got over those unpleasant bleeding...
sorry I have been away, with mum is here, life is quite busy but in a nice way.
Went to see FS last Thursday with my long list of immunological testings, he is really nice about it and had no trouble to get me tested. He also brought the fibroids issue up again, yuk. So I guess I can't turn a blind eye on it anymore and he says will do endometrum biopsy when I schedule in my surgery. We also plan to try a flare cycle for May/June before the surgery as a last chance. Then I will have to take 3 months break after the surgery, this year is almost gone...:-(
I went for the dreaded b/t last Friday, 15 vials of blood, lucky I was lying down when blood was taken. The lady who did it was very kind and that reminded me that I need to write her a 'thank you' card. I am so reliefed that its been done now...regardless what result it is, I will hopefully have an answer.
Now just waiting for result, she said my Doc will get it Mon/Tue, so a bit anxious....
Also seeing Dr. Sacks on Tuesday, hopefully with the results and seeking second opinion. Then I will deciding what I will do for the next cycle.
hope everyone else had a lovely weekend, I need to catch up on some personals soon....
Sara - I am probably a bit late posting this, but I generally have a light to medium AF. But after my cancelled and failed IVF cycles, my AF was very heavy. I made sure I remembered to take my iron but I still felt incredibly drained. Glad it has eased a little and hope you enjoyed your bushwalk
Cuddlepie - WOW - you certainly have your plan underway. I did the same 15 darned viles of blood so I know how you feel :rolleyes: Good luck with your appointment with Dr Sacks (I met with him, too - great for NK cell issue investigation) and hope you get some answers when your BT results come through.
Julie - you are such a rock of support. Hope you are holding up OK :hug:
:hello: to Kel, WLAB, Saph, Meredith and Lisa
Hi Girls,
WTH: Thanks for letting me know, it's good to hear that it's just normal. Hope everything is okay with you.
CP: Hope your appointment with Dr S was productive.
Julie: have posted to you in the other thread, thinking of you. :hug:
Meredith: always lurking to see how you and WTH are goign in the pregnancy thread - hope things are still okay.
Kel: hun, how are you going? You are in my thoughts. :hug:
WLAB: have posted to you in the other thread, keeping fingers crossed.:goodluck:
:hello: Saph, BDT, Lisa, BW, Kate
AFM: Cramping again this morning although AF is nearly over, hope everything will get back to normal, finally got my list of questions together for my FS and have emailed them to her, will post them below, any suggestions appreciated.
Antagonist vs Flare cycle: I am wondering what your opinion is on whether my next cycle should be a a flare or an antagonist cycle. I don't want to take the pill before a cycle as I am worried of getting understimulated again but have heard from a number of women who did a flare cycle without the pill - you mentioned a problem that can ocur in this case, can you please explain it to me again.
DHEA: I am back on taking 50mg since day day of the BT - should I increase it to 75mg? I have the side effect of very greasy skin.
Colorado protocol: I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Colorado protocol. One friend told me her protocal which includes: AUGMENTIN, Estraderm MX patch, Prednisolone, Astrix 100mg - do you think I could benefit from this?
Day 6 transfer: In both cycles the Blastocyst was only tested on Day 6, I am worried that this lowers the chances of implantation - do you have statistics from SIVF which show implantation rates of Day 6 vs Day 5 transfers?
Elevated FSH: Is there anything I can do about this? From the result of the last cycle at what level of FSH would you adise me to do a cycle (personally I would prefer to wait until the FSH is 13 or lower but I obviously dont know if that ever again is going to be the case)
Egg donation: Do you think I should already think about egg donation or is it worthwhile to keep trying with my own eggs for another one or two cycles?
DP' s supplements: Is there anything else DP should be taking - I've heard som men also take Fish Oil, Vitamin D, Bio Zinc, CoQ10 - 150mg - DP at the moment takes Menevit plus Blackmores Men Multi.
My supplements: I am taking Blackmores preconception, CoQ10 - 100mg, Iron tablets (They also contain B complex and Vitamin C) Folate 500mg. I have heard that too much Folate is not good I am currently taking 1g on advise from SIVF - can youplease confirm I should continue with this. Some women also take: Bio Zinc, Vitamin D Ostelin - should I include this?
Empty follicles syndrom: Please let me know your thoughts on how this could be avoided.
Orgalutran: I am wondering if there is the possibility that I might have ovulated as I took the last Orgalutran about 26 hours BEFORE the trigger on advice from the nurse - would it be better to take Orgalutran on the night of the trigger as well - that is what I was told to do during my cycle in January.
Trigger: You were saying something about perhaps using a larger dosage of the trigger and I have also heard that using Pregnyl as the trigger could be of benefit.
I have also read a scientific article by Dr Lok and am wondering if you would advise to consult him for a second opinion on this issue (I am not thinking about changing FS)?
Sara
Hi Sara
That is a fantastic list of questions. I think it is great you have forwarded them on to your FS in advance to that you get optimal mileage from your appointment. :D
Just wanted to talk to you about "too much folate". My understanding is that as a B vitamin (B9), your body will excrete any it does not need. I take the 5mg (10X normal dose) of folate. I originally started taking the larger dose after my first chromosonal loss that in a Dutch study, women who had lower folate intake had a great chance of Trisomy 21. I went on to read it helps with red blood cell division, and that some women believe taking extra helped them conceive (I cannot explain this one, not sure about it). After my third loss (a Trisomy 15), I did the MC investigation program and they discovered I have a double gene for MTHFR. In some women this raises their homocysteine levels, resulting in blood clotting disorders. My level was fine, but they still recommend the 5mg dose, regardless, along with extra B12 and B6 to absorb it.
But.... It is dangerous to take high levels of B6 (pyrodixine). I have read up to 100mg a day is fine - and it assists with extending luteal phase length. But higher doses over a long period can cause nerve damage. Was just wondering if perhaps this is the B-vitamin you were reading about that can be harmful in high doses. Basically my understanding is that you can't have too much folate. My OB said if he had his way, every one would be on the 5mg - man or woman, regardless of age. It has many other qualities (but can't remember what they are as I have a one-track TTC mind)
Hope you don't mind the ramble!!
Luv WTH xx
WTH:
Thanks for the advice on B6. I'll check on it, I am a bit worried as my iron supplement has B vitamins and the Blackmores as well, took a higher dosage of iron over the last few days and was worried I might overdose on the B vitamins.
About the folate I am aware that you were taking a higher dosage and don't really know anything about it, but just saw a few media articles recently, obviously they may not be reliable at all, have posted below.
Sara
Pregnant women overdosing on folic acid
Danielle Teutsch
SMH March 15, 2009
Pregnant women may be taking excessive levels of folic acid in the misguided belief more is better for their babies' health.
Professor Julie Owens, head of the school of pediatrics and reproductive health at the University of Adelaide, is calling for more research into the effects of large doses of the B-group vitamin, which is recommended to pregnant women because of its important role in preventing neural tube defects.
Professor Owens said it was very important that expectant mothers take folic acid at the levels recommended by the National Health and Medical Research Council - 600 micrograms a day. But she was concerned women who took daily supplements and consumed folate-fortified foods could be consuming more than the 1000mcg recommended upper-level intake.
In September, mandatory fortification of bread with folic acid will start in Australia. Mandatory folic acid fortification programs in the US and Canada have been successful in reducing the rate of neural tube defects in the population.
Professor Owens said: "It's important to follow the current guidelines, which are effective in reducing the occurrence of neural tube defects, but there's now emerging evidence that we need to do studies on long-term health consequences, such as the risk of asthma and insulin resistance in offspring.
"The guidelines should be adhered to but not exceeded. It's probably well-educated women who are concerned about doing the right thing in pregnancy who think more is better."
Dr Mark Lawrence, associate professor in the school of exercise and nutrition sciences at Deakin University, said women taking folic acid supplements as well as fortified cereal and juice may exceed the recommended daily intake.
There was an even greater risk of women taking more folate than necessary once mandatory fortification of wheat flour started in September.
"The whole issue of quality control is really difficult," he said. "The US experience is that manufacturers have erred on the side of over-fortification."
Food Standards Australia New Zealand spokeswoman Lydia Buchtmann said less than 1 per cent of the female population would be likely to exceed the 1000mcg a day maximum intake. Ms Buchtmann said the introduction of the mandatory folate fortification program would add only another 100mcg of folate a day on average.
Hollie-Berri Sleeman, who is 33 weeks' pregnant with her second child, has been swimming, doing yoga and taking supplements throughout her pregnancy. In the first trimester, Ms Sleeman, 36, of Woolooware, took a folic acid supplement as well as a pregnancy multivitamin - a total of 1000mcg of folic acid a day. For the second and third trimesters she continued taking the multivitamin, containing 500mcg of folic acid, as well as fish oil for foetal brain development and magnesium to prevent leg cramps. She follows a healthy diet, which includes some cereal fortified with folic acid.
She said "it would be good to get independent research" into the effects of vitamin supplements and safe upper intake levels.
Sara - thanks for sharing this information with me - I really appreciate it. I had not seen it as I was a more than two months into this PG when it was released and I had stopped my obsessive research. I guess because of my MTHFR situation I will need to continue the 5mg, though I don't feel so good about it now :rolleyes:
Sorry WTH really didn't want to worry you, pretty sure your OB knows a lot more about it than a newspaper article.
Sara
Hi everyone,
Sara, that is a great list of questions, all the best with getting your answers.
WTH, I also tested + for two mutations of MTHFR, my FS has also recommended 5mg folate, in all of my Googling those with +MTHFR are recommended to take 5mg of folate, B6 and B12 to help absorption and low dose aspirin for life, regardless of TTC. I believe being +MTHFR means that you are not processing/absorbing the folate properly, hence the need for the larger dose which would ideally give you the right amount once your body processes it.
CP, hi, thinking of you and hope you get some answers also after your extensive BTs, will be watching to see your news.
Hi to Saph, Julie and everyone else. xx
Hi Baby Dreamtime - yes, I was planning to take 5mg of folate for life, plus B12 (I am vegetarian and need the extra anyway) and B6. However, I am am a bit unusual as my homocysteine and folate levels are normal, so I do not need the aspirin. In fact - my OB, who specialises in recurrent MC, won't let me near aspirin as he says it raises the risk of MC (unless you have an identified clotting disorder, eg elevated homocysteine levels)...
BTW - we aren't oddbods - the double gene is present in 10% of the population and thankfully is not always connected to MC, just increases the risk when the homocysteine level is off the scale due to clotting ;)
Sara - have printed off the article and am taking it to OB appointment on Monday. Thanks for sharing the info