IVF with very high FSH #2

Hi Ferrals,
I don't know if stress directly affects or causes high FSH, but I'm sure it doesn't help the situation, but it's so hard not to stress when you have to deal with what you are. You could try doing things like meditation or daily quiet time with deep breathing, yoga etc just to balance out the stress levels. With 3 boys, I'd imagine it's hard to find time. I hope this month is the lucky month for you and you have to cancel your FS appointment.

How is everyone else? I often wonder where everyone is at.

My update: Since failed Cycle #4 which was my last post, I did a back to back and went straight into Cycle #5 with the same FS, but I went back to using my old protocol: Antagonist with 450 Puregon.
Here's how it played out:
CD1: AF Starts
CD2/SD1: Start Puregon 450 Injections
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SD7: 1st Scan 5-6 Antral Follicles, but none recruited or growing
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SD10: 2nd Scan 2 Antral Follicles, but no follicles developing (no movement)
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SD13: 3rd Scan showed no movement AT ALL, thin lining. FS puts me on Progynova
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SD17: 4th Scan showed no movement AT ALL. A BT showed my DHEA level was through the roof at 5600, so I dropped my dose from 75mg/day to 25mg/day.
CD19/SD18: Stopped the FSH Injections. Kept taking progynova. FS said to wait and see if my body would kick back into gear by itself.
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CD 25: 5th Scan (7 days since stopping injections). No movement, but a BT shows an FSH level of 75, Est320. FS advised me completely stop DHEA, Progynova, drop my Prednisone to 1/day and stay on Baby Asprin. He tells be with that level, I'm post-menapausal :wtf:
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CD 48: Another 3 weeks pass and no AF :wall: so I went for a scan and there was 1 x 18mm follicle. FS said to go to EPU but because the chance of success was the same as if we just BD'd, DH & I decided to do that instead.
CD 49: Obvious that I was ovulating, loads of fertile mucus, DH and I got into action.
CD 50: AF starts midday. Thought it was just some spotting, but it was definitely AF (bright red). It lasted 3 days and has then disappeared again.

Today I am on CD 57 if I consider the bleed a mid-cycle bleed of some sort??? or else I'm on CD 8??? But what I can't understand is how I could have had an 18mm follicle (viewed via scan) and then got AF 2 days later??? (The FS I am seeing takes no routine bloods, so aside from scans, I have no other info to go off which might shed light on what my hormones were actually up to).

So here I am, waiting again - for what, I don't know. AF? Ovulation? I have no control over this so I can only go with it and wait and see, no matter how frustrated that makes me. So anyway, that's my update. At the same time we've been exploring known donor, did counselling for it - but not looking too promising for me. Where to from here? I don't know, I really, really don't know.

Dusty, bulieJ, Daisie, Possums, anyos, Sara69 and others who have passed through this thread - would love to know how my fellow High-FSH'ers are getting on. Post an update if you're up to it. Hopefully all are ok.

One things for sure...life definitely doesn't always work out like we thought it might.

xx

Hi guys

Ferrals - I don't know about stress affecting FSH, I don't really think it does. My FSH was 14.5 the day before I started my injections and I got a BFP that month. So your FSH at 10... you should still go for it, for sure. My FS asked if I wanted to go for it even with 14.5 and I said hell yeah. we only got 2 fertilised from a possible 3 eggs (we did ICSI) but you only need one.

Tigga - wow. What a crazy cycle huh? I'm certainly no expert but I"ll throw in my 5 cents worth. Sounds like too many drugs just putting your whole cycle out of whack. Ovualtion then AF? Maybe you need to go drug free for a month or 2 to get back to normal (excpet the asprin, I'm all for asprin). What is the prednisone for and were you taking that the whole time? I guess you need to ask yourself if you have confidence in the FS or if you think you need to change. Is this the second FS that you tried back in November/December last year? YOu really need to be having the blood tests, to know what is going on. Don't be put off by the "menopausal" talk. try someone else if you need.

What was your FSH before you started this last cycle? Did you get it tested? I'm just wondering if there were no follies this time around because it was back to back? My FS wouldn't do back to back, but I don't know why.

Oh, about the 18 mm follie, I had a 20 mm follie when I went for my 8 week scan during pg... so I think sometimes they just appear at a weird time. It had reabsorbed by the time I went for my next scan.

I know how frustrated you must be feeling. It's so hard to know what to do, which option is going to work out.

I see you have been having low egg numbers (me too) have you considered ICSI? On our previous cycle, we had 3 mature eggs, 2 fertilised, but 1 was abnormal (like your feb cycle) so we transfered one and it was BFN. On our last cycle the FS said we should do ICSI because of the abnormal fertilisation (and low egg numbers - we got 3 again). Of the 3 eggs, 2 fertilised (both normally). We weren't very keen on ICSI and had actually decided before going to EPU that we wouldn't do it, and then when they asked us at EPU my DH said, yes do ICSI and I was like - WTF? Didn't we say no? But he'd changed his mind so we did it and got a good result. Anyway, I waffling now. I see you're online so I'll post this now. Good luck.

Daisie

Thanks for getting back to me tigga.
It is possible to O around time of AF because some times you can gear up ready to O and then stress or illness stops the LH surge which prevents Oing so your body has to gear up again ready to O and it can do that a few time i had a big fat follie just as AF left the building one month but that was because of really high E2 my follies went over board to early my body alway's ovulates early around day 11-12 but this one month was a fluke.
I do remember reading one of the girls in here had really high E2 during AF and it turned out she was ready to O so it is possible.
Sorry you have had such a hard time with your cycle that FSH level was a shocker did they say why so high you are only 39.
I am praying my FSH of 10 was a one off i don't want it tested again but if i have to do IVF in May then i suppose they will tell me i am taking a chinese herbal mix SUPER FERTILITY#2 from america it is suppose to be proven to lower FSH levels and another chinese mix HO SHOU WU is for ovum quality so crossing my fingers they do the trick.

Daisie - So good to hear all is still going well for you! :clap: Oh! Must be so exciting!! Thanks for your reply. I was on the prednisone to counter act possible NK Cells. FS did a biopsy when I first saw him, Nov/Dec last year, but didn't take enough cells so test was not possible. Anyway, he put me on a low dose of prednisone irrelevant, just in case. Yes, this is the new FS. I'm thinking of going back to my first one. In hindsight, his approach was right. My previous FS would never allow back to back cycles - I can see why now. But then, someone else on another thread got BFP on her 10th cycle which was a back to back one. You just never know - everyone is so different. Because this FS does no routine bloods, I had no baselines taken for Cycle#4 or Cycle#5 with him - so don't know what my FSH/LH/E2 was up to. We did ICSI on the first round, but not since. I will do it if we cycle again, because the abnormal fert on #4 could have been a result of 2 sperm getting into the egg and with ICSI you can prevent that.

Ferrals - I agree with Daisie, your age and your FSH level means that your odds are still very good. Try not to let your FSH level worry you too much - at 10 it's really not overly high and it only means you MIGHT have a lower response to IVF, but it does not mean you can't get pregnant. I hope you get a natural miracle soon. I too have heard of delayed O and I was actually the person you are referring to about have high E2 (follicle) during AF. The FS could give me no reasons for my FSH reading - other than to pursue donor...typical.

It's good to hear from you both. Take care.

Tigger

Sorry to read that your cycle is all over the place. I speak with Bulliej, she is well, and busy with work. I am not sure if she still pops in.

I just had to post, that with us mature ladies, a back to back, imo, is the worst thing you can do. I have done it, and had the worst outcome, and I am a robust responder, producing over 30 folls at age 42. I actually just completed an IUI, to keep myself busy, . with 150 iui of Puregon, 16 follicals on one ovary, no joy with af arriving early.

On CD 1 I had an internal scan (clinic policy) to commence another back to back IUI, and I had two lead follicals at 20mm with a full flow. They cancelled the back to back .. it is not uncommon

Is it possible the follicals where cysts ? It is so frustrating, I know, as you know with the FSH, we are playing with mother nature and no idea of the outcome

Thanks Daisy & tigga i guess i am just confused because after reading all your journeys and other ladies with low egg numbers and poor response to ivf i wonder where i fit the FS said i was a texbook responder i had heaps of follies and when we decided not to do another PGD IVF cycle because of the cost the FS said we are fertile and will have no problem getting pregnant so i wonder about the FSH i am still not pregnant and we are in our 5th month ttc after our PGD cycle.
Anyway thanks again i will just soldier on.

hey ladies, just wanted to pop in and say hello.

Tigga, sorry to hear that your cycle has been so unpredictable. I agree with Daisie, it may be all the drugs messing around with your system, perhaps some time out would help? Don't worry about the post menapausal comment, I got told the same thing last year when i had a high FSH reading. What have you decided re FS?

Ferrals I hope you're ok. FSH of 10 isn't v high, mine was higher for most of last year but we still had a natural BFP (despite my first FS encouraging us to look for donors!). Being a lower a responder to IVF as well, I know how heartbreaking, tiring and expensive it is but keep trying, your odds are very good.

Dusty, bulieJ, Daisie, Possums, Sara69 and all the other high-fshers, I hope everyone is travelling well, have been thinking of you.

AFM, all going well and due early August (just a few weeks before Daisie I think). Am lurking to keep up with everyone and sending you all my love xx

Tigga, so sorry to hear :grouphug:

It just sounds like a freak result to me - as far as I know FSH has to be measured on CD2, not even sure if a result at that time of the cycle when your FS measured it is valid. It definitely sounds like your body has been pretty much messed around by all the drugs.

I am no longer posting here but am now on AED, I think I saw a post of yours there too, I tried one last cycle in December which was cancelled as I just couldn't take the emotional pain anymore to go through EPU for a very small number of eggs. I am currently cycling with a donor, please feel free to PM me here or on AED if you'd like to talk about donor options.

Daisy - Wonderful news - so happy to hear

Buliej - hope you are going well

Wishing all of you good luck with your journey

Sara

Hi ladies,
Just popping in to let you know i have started my 2nd ivf cycle day 2 BT FSH was 8 after 4 months on super fertility from radiant wonder to help reduce FSH levels looks like it has worked although my E2 was 359 the doctor did an U/S and it turns out i have 13 follies and one of them a dominant one of 18mm on day 2:o so she seems to think i will always have high E2 as every early scan of antral follicles i seem to have a big one on the right side last month on day 7 i had 22 follicles with a 19mm one so anyway i was told my FSH is not an issue at all and the E2 is not masking it as the amount of follicles i have give me a true reading and my ovaries are still making lots of follicles.
Now i just need to get to EPU without my E2 skyrocketing.

I hope everyone is well

Hi Ferrals - for what it's worth, after extensive research etc. I have been told that you are only as good as your worst FSH...there is no such thing as improving eggs thus any fluctuation in FSH is only arbitrary although clinic's do seem to use it as a cut-off measurement. You are born with all your eggs, your body never creates any new ones so this makes sense if you think about it. Of course this doesn't mean that a high FSH means you have no good eggs left but it is an indicator that egg quality is poor. I happened to always have decent FSH for my age yet my eggs were fried so in my case it gave me false hope.

Hi ladies

Sorry to jump into your thread - I have been lurking for a while...

Ferrals - that is great news on your FSH levels. Good luck with this cycle. I will be watching with interest as it sounds like we are similar - when my FSH is low, my E2 is high and ovulate very early - CD 6-CD8. But that happens every 2 to 3 months. Otherwise I can have a higher FSH and normal E2 but respond poorly to Clomid etc.

Buliej - hi - hope you are well. I just wanted to comment on your last post. My TCM told me a few months ago that there is international research to show that eggs are continuing to be made just as males continue to produce sperm, it is just that eggs take a lot longer to make than sperm. So it seems that the theory that we are born with our total egg supply my not be correct. And my FS says that the FSH level is only an indicator of the quality of that batch of eggs, and as they are 'selected' 8 months in advance of ovulation, a high FSH can be an indicator of stress or illness 8 months previously. All interesting stuff. Now if I could just fall pg!

Chez67-Thanks for that i was also told that by my accupucturist/chinese herbalist but i still worried about my FSH reading of 10.5 but in saying that my FS said 10-15 is a real gray area and they really cant tell until you do a cycle and see how you respond and what doseage of drugs you need to stimulate and seeing i make a heap of follies and respond really well to a low dose then she said forget my FSH as all my tests show i am still fertile it seems that DH is the problem with bad morphology and as all my eggs ferilised last time but fragmented after day 3 the embrologist is saying that is DNA damage in the sperm so i guess i just have wait and see how i go with this cycle.
And isnt the high E2 frustrating do you have a lead follicle that causes it i seem to have one every 2nd month i have had u/s for a few non medicated cycles and between day 2-8 i have a 17mm-19mm follicle but the earliest i O is day 11 and that is only every 2nd month every other month everything seems fine and i O on day 13 i have been tracking my cycles for 7 months now and it hasnt changed that is why the FS ignored my E2 and that big follie and went ahead with starting my injection.
Anyway i will let you know how i go i find out thursday if my E2 is to high or not and they cancel me fingers crossed.

Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone has any advice for me. I'm doing PGD for recurrent failed IVF and 2 biochemical pregnancies, and am on the maximal dose of Puregon 600 units, yikes. With this, I got 10 eggs this time and just waiting for embryo numbers. Some people have mentioned DHEA, is there anything else I should be doing? (I'm also doing acupucture etc).
Thanks for your help.

Good Luck Foxy77.

Have you tried low dose asprin during your cycle? It thins the blood and I believe in the theory that i this helps the embryo implant. I also took Royal Jelly capsules and high dose mulitvitamins until ET. Fingers crossed for you.

Thanks Daisie.
Unfortunately all 4 embryos were chromosomally abnormal, so not transfer yesterday. I'm devastated but also relieved I don't have to go through a pointless 2ww or another biochemical pregnancy. I think we'll try this once more before changing sperm donors... or my female partner donating me her embryos... I guess I need some time to think and some time for it all to sink in...

Hi Ferrals
Sorry I haven't replied earlier... hope your cycle is going well. Re your question about a leading ovary - strangely enough no Dr has ever investigated so I am not sure if that is what happening. I wish I had more answers, but who doesn't when they're TTC? Anyway, my FS is back and I see her on Thursday. We will be talking about what our options are for the future. In the meantime, my cycle is still off since the Clomid - my period just doesn't seem to want to come. Trying herbs and AP to get AF to show her face. Something I am toying with at the moment is ED. DH is fully supportive but I still have some things to work through, the hardest being finding a donor! Anyway, good luck with your cycle - sending you lots of stickvibes!
xx

Hi chez,
Just thought i'd pop in and let you know how my cycle ended up that lead follicle ended being a cyst that is why my E2 is always high every 2nd month so out of 23+ follicles all the ones on the right side did not get big enough to have mature eggs as the cyst sucked up all the puregon hormone but on the left side which is my not so good side we had 10+ follicles where 6 were big enough at EPU and ended up having an A grade day 3 perfect looking embryo TF and i have had BFP since yesterday and todays one being nice and dark so we made it when the cycle was looking like being cancelled because of that cyst and now we are pregnant.
I hope AF has shown her face and you can get cycling soon.
Any luck with a donor?

Hi Ferrals

:leap::dance::confetti::happyforyou:

CONGRATULATIONS! I was only thinking about you on the weekend! That is great news because as you said it all looked like being cancelled early on in the cycle. It gives me more hope! And what a fantastic number of follicles - I wish I could produce that many!

AFM, no AF but when I did some b/t last week it looked like I was about to O with a good E2 and LH reading. I saw my FS on Thursday for a scheduled appointment and she decided to give me a trigger shot that afternoon as my b/t from that morning showed a drop in E2 and LH but no rise in Prog, so she was worried about an unruptured follicle. I have more Pregnyl tonight and again Thursday, with more b/t on Thursday. I trying not to send myself crazy with this TWW but already I am feeling the effects of the Pregnyl which I believe can mimic pg symptoms! Oh well, another try for us and maybe it will turn out to be lucky. Cross for your fingers and toes for us!

Good luck with your pg and I hope it is H&H.
oxo

Chez67-Any news yet have you poas? i just thought i would pop in and see how you are going.

Hi Ferrals

Thanks for thinking of me. Unfortunately it turns out that I have a 4cm cyst on my left ovary which likely accounted for the high E2 levels. The scan also showed no other active follicles and that my lining was <7mm so no BFP for me.

I had a b/t on Tuesday morning and to cut a long story short my GP arranged a scan for me when I phoned him. My FS just wanted to continue with the pregnyl injections and b/t without any further investigation (progesterone was only 16 so it didn't look like O had occurred). So I have stopped the pregnyl and am now waiting for AF to arrive which hopefully should be close.

We have an appointment at the IVF clinic on Tuesday morning to kick everything off but I have no confidence whatsovever that it will work, but my DH wants to try one last time and I respect that wish. I have resigned myself to the fact that for us to have a baby will require an ED so that is where I am focusing my energies now. I have decided that this last IVF cycle will be on my terms - so I won't be doing it on a borderline FSH level, and I will be taking time off work for the whole cycle. I am over receiving bad news about b/t etc on the phone while I am at work! I am also trying to do more exercise and generally get stronger because I know the physical and emotional drain of an IVF cycle.

Anyway, that's it from me. I hope everything is going well for you.
oxo