Long Term TTC & Assisted Conception - Feb 2008 #2

Numa - welcome!! You have been going thru a really hard time you poor thing. My deepest sympathies on your Dad and Grandmother, I am sure you are heartbroken. That in itself is so hard to go thru without doing IVF as well...
I am so sorry about your failed IVF cycle - it is so hard to deal with after going thru all the needles, stress etc. My first cycle also failed. Am also sure after being told you had 19 eggs - an amazing number by the way, that none were successful, you just didnt know what to think.
I also have ICSI because as you get older your eggs get harder and makes it much more difficult for the sperm to enter on its own. With ICSI - that actually put the little swimmer into the egg so he doesnt have to break thru the wall - so to speak.
I am sure it will help you when you are ready to go for the next round.
Stay positive and dont give up...

Hi numa,

Welcome to BB :) I'm sure you'll find everyone here very supportive and full of advice and help. They're lovely!

I'm very sorry to hear of the loss of your father and your grandmother. What difficult things to go through without the additional anxiety and stress of IVF - I'm sure you are very strong person to be continuing to move forward and look to the future and what has to happen next in amongst the personal bereavement you're going through.

I'm sorry that your first cycle hasn't gone well :( Although I haven't been in your position my first IVF cycle wasn't hugely successful either - I had 9 eggs collected but only 2 fertilised, and the one embryo I had transfered was a BFN. We were using ICSI. I can tell you that my FS said she had learnt a lot from this first cycle, as it sounds like your FS has from yours. It seems quite cruel but the first IVF cycle is always a guessing game, and really like a trial of how your body will respond and how your eggs and embryos will fare. And then your FS will take things away from the cycle and find a better way next time.

In my second ICSI cycle I had 10 eggs collected, and 6 of them fertilised, and the one embryo I had transfered stuck for a while - I had an early chemical pregnancy - which has given us hope that we will one day achieve a successful pregnancy :) The problem in our first cycle was my eggs were mostly undermature, as were yours. We weren't expecting to do ICSI our first time either, however after DH gave his sample on the day, they changed and decided to do ICSI. The difference between the two cycles was that on the second cycle, my eggs were allowed to mature more during stimulation and we ended up with 6 embryos better in quality than our first two in the first cycle.

I'm telling you this to let you know that with a combination of the maturity of your eggs being better (which I'm sure your FS will be able to work on, via your stimulation meds and protocol) and ICSI, there is so much hope of you having lovely, healthy (and multiple!) embryos - ICSI makes a huge difference when there are issues with the surface of your eggs and the sperm communicating and interacting properly - the whole of that problem will be bypassed with ICSI.

It is also important to let you know that it's not uncommon to have some embryos that don't develop normally - there will always be a percentage that don't develop normally right from the start - this is just nature, and perhaps it was just unlucky that your embryo that did fertilise ok didn't go on well. Please don't beat yourself up thinking that your eggs and sperm "don't get on". With only one embryo to judge it by, you simply can't know yet about how well your eggs and sperm and thus embryos will and can get on, especially when ICSI hasn't been tried yet :)

I have lots and lots of hope for you, and you are never to think that you are not meant to have children. Who decides who is meant to have children and not? It's a rhetorical question and thus a rhetorical thought. You have just as much right to desire to conceive and have children in your life as a couple who can conceive naturally, and you are right - it's a matter of coming to grips with the terms of how that happens. But the fact of it happening is not something ever to question. A child that is conceived of love is conceived of love, full stop.

Please believe in yourself, numa. It is such a difficult thing to go through and to come to terms with, but you have the desire and the ability to look forward and hope, as you have said at the end of your post. And there is so much hope, despite this outcome now. So you use those things inside you to help you move forward to the next step. We all believe in you here - you'll see :)

Lots of luck to you, and hugs,

Miss C

Hi Ladies

Firstly, thank you for all your kind words and good luck - I know have 9 sleeps before my BT - whoo hoo.

Numa - I was trying to read your post to my DH and kept choking up with tears. I just wanted to say how brave and strong you are to have kept on with your stim cycle amongst all your family grief - well done. My MIL is in intensive care unit in hospital at the moment and I know how hard it is for my DH and I to concentrate on our IVF/ICSI treatment when we are stressed about her. As far as ICSI is concerned I think Miss C covered pretty much everything I wanted to say. This is my first treatment cycle and I had only 1 egg collected, fertilised and transfered and am now in the 2WW. I would definitely recommend ICSI to you for your next cycle and wish you all the best of luck :pray:

Hi everyone :)

Kyles - you and I have the same number of sleeps until BT! I'm assuming your test in is on 17 March? We are sooooo cycle buddies until the end now!! :P I hope you're doing ok with the wait, hun.

Sandi - I'm here a bit late, but I wanted to say I'm really sorry to here about your BFN :( You've got tonnes of support around you here, and we will all be wishing you all the luck in the world for your next cycle!

PLC - Hang in there, hun. All we do when we're TTC is wait, hey? Maybe you can clarify once more what your ob wants you to do - check to be 100% sure that you have to wait until mid-April to start TTC. It certainly wouldn't harm to relieve your mind by really asking if it's necessary and if so, what the reason is.

Saph - Congratulations on finally getting to that blasted trigger! Very best of luck in the TWW - I'll see you over in the thread!

TL - I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time with work atm, hun. Last thing you need :( I know how strong and sure you are, and there's no doubt you will find the right job for you. Lots and lots of hugs to you. I'll be thinking of you on March 18 - day after my BT! :hug:

Salt - oh, sweetie. I have been thinking of you a lot since I saw your posts in the TWW thread earlier at the start of the week when I posted. I hope you are hanging in there ok. How are you doing? hugs hugs hugs!

Hi and big hugs to others here that I haven't written personals to. Hope you're all doing ok.

TWW ambling along ok here. 6 days post transfer. I'm just getting over the flu (got it a couple of days before transfer) but unfortunately DH has picked it up now :( I'm having rather strong reactions to the pessaries particularly in the last few days as the dose has built up in my body. I'm getting very emotionally agitated and depressed shortly after each dose, quite far removed from reality and then it's like a fog lifting and I'm fine a few hours later. The result of this occuring at the night dose means I've had quite a lot of insomnia. My FS and the clinic have been really helpful and supportive (I was on the phone with a number of people from the clinic including FS on Thursday). I've slept better in the last two nights though, so the affect hasn't been quite so bad with yesterday and today's doses :) I'll be ok - just hanging in there. DH has been positively amazing - he's under pressure at work and commuting 1.5 hours one way to work, plus all this crazy stuff from the progesterone, and he's a rock. I get to look after him now anyway, as he's sick :)

Hope everyone is having a good weekend,

Miss C

Hi ladies!!
Miss C - sorry to hear ur doing it rough at the mo but what a guy u have there!!! What a blessing! Thx also for ur encouragement. And I wanted to commend u on ur lengthy encouragement to Numa - I'm sure she would have appreciated that as I would have if it were me. minnie-lulu as well gave great advice.
Numa - so sorry to hear of ur losses - I hope ur blessings will in turn be great. You know I have a friend who had 13 attempts of IVF/ICSI before she had success on her 14th attempt - there is truly truly always hope!! I wish it for u (maybe with less attempts :))
Bee - hun, I wish that hope for u too so that u can arrive at that happy ending too!
saph - wishing u a speedy tww!

hello and huge huge hugs to everyone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as for me, I am VERY confused at the moment!! As you know I had my lap, dye, hyst, etc etc 2 weeks and 2 days ago afterwhich I got AF with normal duration of days and then expected to get my next AF in 4-6 weeks. Well - today I got AF! Does ANYONE have anything to share with me re their experiences in this area - did AF come super earlier tham expected? Or have they heard about someone in this situation? I will definitely query it with the Ob on Tuesday but not sure what my dear ol' bod is up to.

Hi everyone

A huuuuge thankyou :) to minniemouse, miss c, kyles and plc for your warm and encouraging posts. I had tears of relief (or something like that!) reading them. I really feel less alone in my situation... and you have reminded me about staying positive.

Also I wanted to wish all of you on this thread the best! :goodluck: You seem to know each other and I guess it will take me some time. But its great to be able to talk to people going through the same thing :grouphug:

Thanks again :D

Salt, Saph, Kyles and Miss C....hope I didnt miss anyone...Goodluck guys...hope you're all doing ok thru the nasty TWW..its such a stressful time...Go Girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bluedust::bluedust::bluedust::bluedust::bluedust:

plc - i wish i could help but have no idea whats going on. Be interested to know what the OB has to say. Maybe the lap business messes up the old system for a few weeks..??

Numa - glad I could help just a little. It really takes some weight off your shoulders when you can talk to people who really 'get it'..

PCL - Sometimes AF goes haywire after a lap call the clinic though
Paula - Great to see some excitments
Numa - Welcome sorry about not making it to ET
Saph - Hope EPU went well

DH and I are home.Well after 3 fluctuating months in this role I can now say only a few more weeks to go :). I recived an offer on Friday to be a Branch Manager for a recuitment office with a March 31st start Yay :)

Thanks for all your support :hug:

Hi everybody :D

Miss C - I am so excited that we are cycle buddies:dance: - yes my BT is on the 17th March - I am doing ok with the wait - I am on four pregnyl injections over the 2WW so there is no point me even thinking about HPT cos it would give false results. Sorry to hear you are having troubles with the pessaries - I have not been suffering from insomnia but have had some pretty vivid dreams - no problems so far with emotions as I even went so far as to ask my DH last night if he thinks I have been excessively moody etc and he said no - bless his heart. Hope your DH gets over the flu soon.

Sandi - how are you feeling - thinking of you :)

PLC - Re your AF bleeding - I may be 100% wrong here and please let me know if I am but for my lap, hyst etc it was performed in the middle of my cycle - around day 14 therefore the bleeding for days after op was simply post operative and I therefore got my true AF approx 14 days later. Hope this makes sense.

Numa - glad to hear you are feeling a little bit more positive and this site is great if you need to get things off your chest and also get loads of support :)

Lulu - thanks for your babydust luck - I need all the positive vibes I can get.

Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend - I am a total revhead so about to go back to the tele to watch the V8 racing :dance:

Best of luck to you all. I want to sprinkle :bluedust: and will promise to :crossfingers:
I myself am hoping for lots of :egg:'s. First month of trying puregon, day three of injection today.

Hello Everyone, sorry I don't have time to do personals, but I'm reading up on everyone and wish you all the very best of luck, you all are so great :) keep it up!!
I'm good :) thanks for asking kyles :)
I have been doing some research about helping the little embie stick and I have some contacts with 2 really good naturopath's, as I used to work in the health care industry.
I have made an appointment with my Naturopath who is going to give me some advise for things to do during the 2WW to help things along.
I'm also going to be doing a bit of acupuncture as well, he recommended that I should do thisbefore my next 2ww.
As soon as I see them. I will let you know how it goes and pass on anything I can to help you all out. Hey we will try anything right and it can't hurt.
I will keep reading and posting
Wishing everyone luck and happiness... :pray:ing for you ALL!

I just finished reading the posts...
Firstly Welcome Numa,
Miss C, WOW girl what a post for Numa. I couldn't have said it any better and just wanted to tell you that your a true Gem and so supportive keep it up girl:clap:
Numa - I was reading your post and just wanted to tell you to never give up sweetie.
It's strange but I have always believed that things happen not only when you least expect them but also when you really need them.
I'm so sorry for what you have been through, you deserve not only to be happy but to be blessed with all the little babies you desire.
I have heard of the saying when there is a death you always hear of a birth.
You do deserve the miracle of a child, I actually asked myself the very same question and thought that maybe I haven't had one because I don't deserve one but you can never think like that, and it doesn't work that way because if it did then the people who don't want kids or really shouldn't have kids wouldn't end up being pregnant.
My very good friend from work she was going through some things and we stuck together and helped each other through some hard times, I think of her as a little sister as she's only 17 and I have just found out she is pregnant with TWINS and she's only 17 and been with her boyfriend for 3 months.
So please never question the unquestionable as it will do your head in babe.
I think of it this way, we are a little more prepared for it,going through everything we go through to have the little ones, I mean we have to go through so much to get pregnant and we are the one's who really appreciate it for what it is a"miracle" and don't take it for granted like so many people do.
Ivf is very scary but I find it very exciting as well, we just gota not give up and try not to focus on the bad or the impossible and know that one little embie will eventually get through :)
Everyone here is fantastic and were are here to listen honey.
Good luck and you have a special partner, and are lucky to have a beautiful love! Keep the posts coming were always here!

Sandi 28 & Andrew 28 together for 10 years
TTC 5 years
First IVF /ICSI feb/march 08= BFN
KEEPING ON GOING TILL THE END!!!!

TL - woohooo!!! So happy to hear that you've been offered the position. This will mean an end to the stress you've been going through recently. Just wanted to let you know that although I haven't posted in your blog hun, I have been reading it when I can, and it'll be easier with the consistent internet access I've got now. It's a great time for you to start at the end of March - after the Lap is out of the way and you're on track for the next cycle! Yay - good news all round!

Sandi - good luck with your naturopath and acupuncture appointments - sounds really positive and encouraging, and it's really good to see you moving forward with so much energy for the next cycle :)

Carly - Welcome to BB :) Feel free to ask any questions of anyone here - it's seriously like an encyclopedia when everyone pools all their knoweledge and experiences! Good luck with the Puregon. I hope you get lots of eggs!

Kyles - Thanks for the warm wishes, hun :hug: DH is ok - he keeps getting a fever and then it breaks for a while and then starts again. I'm being very bossy and keeping in line so he looks after himself ;)

Numa - So glad to hear that the replies have been helpful for you. Everyone is always here for one another and you'll have plenty of support here, hun. I too found it such a relief when I joined in the threads here to realise I wasn't alone and that people understood what I was going through. I think everyone has thought that when they joined the forums!! :D

PLC - sorry to hear that AF is playing her usual wicked games :( I hope the ob can give you a clearer idea of what's going on on Tuesday, but it sounds like Kyles situation was so similar, so maybe that's a possibility? You could definitely ask your ob about it... Hang in there, hun. :hug:


Miss C

Miss C thanks for the congrats I have just signed the contract and emailed off and new boss has responed all ready bring on Friday when I can resgin.

Glad you have net access now PS show me some wedding photos:p

YAY....Linda - congrats....man - you dont waste time...Good for you!!
Hope you can get a bit of a break inbetween jobs..
Well done...

Helps when you have a strong name in recuitment and you say you want to go back. Thanks Lulu

TL, miss c, kyles, minnie-lulu - thanks heaps for your posts. It really is uncanny how my situation was exactly like kyles - lap in mid-cycle and AF 2 weeks later when it was originally scheduled - lap aside. But what I don't get is - isn't a lap, hyst, etc etc going to completely obliterate (maybe not a good word) anything that was in there - egg, sperm, other related tissue - and isn't that why not only would it take 4 weeks - 28 days, a normal cycle from scratch, whatever - but also a little longer cos the area is a little shell-shocked and needs a bit of time to work out what happened and where to from here - i.e. the actual figuring out to start the cycle again. To me, an AF after 2 weeks does not fit but maybe other factors are involved and like TL said things go "haywire". Sorry for TMI - but it is incredibly heavy - much more so than usual. I have to wonder how much the acupuncture and naturopathy factor into this.
Kyles - btw, did your AFs arrive regularly after the 2 week post lap AF?

Also Sandi - can totally recommend the acupuncture - provided he/she is highly recommended - I feel so good after my weekly visits.

PCL - The idea of the lap sweet is to make sure the body is ok and clean if need be for the next cycle. My FS says he has seen an increase in BFP after things are nice and tidy :hug: hang in there and remember the body has been through a bit

New thread time, posse.