LT TTC after Miscarriage or Loss #8

Hi Ladies
Matthewsmum ~ good to here from you, all the best with O'ing, hope you catch that egg so you dont need to do the IVF
Sunbeam ~ very sorry for your BFN - :hug: Its good to know that something happened though isnt it - that one step closer. Has to stick properly eventually - keep trying!
Crafty ~ hope you are feeling better and your body is behaving!
Saffy ~ hope all is going well so far with your cycle!
Age78 ~ hope you're well, all the best!

AFM ~ I had some pink streaks yesterday arvo - hoping its implantation- then my temp this morning was 37.2 very high for the morning but that also could be due to still being a bit fluey, certainly not getting hopes up too much just yet. Although considering I believe I O'd only a few days ago it would be way to early for AF to be here. So yeh I'm quietly confident - perhaps its just our time at the moment. Just need one to eventually stick, :pray:

Loops~ Thank you for the hugs darl, I am going to need lots of them to get through the next few days....Hmmm pink streaking sounds promising darl, FX for you tightly. Good luck stalking you, :)
Crafty~ So sorry to hear AF has arrived early for you darl, hugs to you. I haven't had anything to do with Vitex either so I am no help to you on that one darl, sorry. Hope your new cycle is better behaved for you with a sticky BFP at the end of it darl, take care of you.
Saffy~ Good luck with your scan darl and catching your egg this cycle, thinking of you and hoping this cycle ends wonderfully for you my dear. FX for your BFP.
Age78~ So jealous of your pampering darl, lucky woman. I would kill for a day of pampering even a couple of hours would be great, lol. Hope you enjoyed every second of it darl you deserve it all. How are you going with your cycle darl?
MathewsMum~ Good luck with catching your egg darl, I have everything crossed for you to get your sticky BFP sending you some very lucky :pink-babydust::bluedust:
Sunbeam~ So sorry darl your hopes where shattered big hugs to you. Sounds like your DD partner is supportive of you so that is great, had to have a little chuckle when I read about if you have a girl and she has 3 boys, lol. Hope AF is kind to you and gets gone quickly so you can get to your next O day darl. Take care of you and good luck.
AFM~ Well FF tells me I O'd on CD14, I can not believe how much my cycle is changing since we have moved over here, in the last 3 years I have never O'd a day before CD20 and always had an LP of 5-8 days. I am currently 5DPO today so in the dreaded :2ww: Turns out if FF is right we DTD the night before I O'd, :o so not sure if that gives me much of a chance of getting a BFP or not. Had some weird cramping type pains yesterday not sure what they were but haven't had any today, also had a bit of a temp dip yesterday morning as well but it was back up again this morning. Had the worst nights sleep last night all I kept dreaming about was people and animals being dead it was horrible, not sure what that was all about either, even had a guy in my dream who took our kitten and started skinning it in front of me I was devastated and horrified. So needless to say the first thing I did when I got out of bed this morning was go straight out and check on our kitten. Of course he is fine thank goodness.
Thank you for all your support ladies and advice you have given me on the outlaws arriving I think they are arriving tomorrow, feeling a little more settled with them coming up but I am so jealous of the ladies that have the in laws living overseas maybe I should purchase a one way ticket for my MIL, LOL.

hi girls,

crafty: sorry to hear af turned up unexpectedly, i don't know much about vitex but i think it can work well or stuff things up and it sounds like the latter for you, how long have you been on it ?

sunbeam: i hope af shows up for you and you get that extra sticky bfp next cycle

loops: fingers crossed for you, i hope you get your bfp this cycle too

saffy: here's hoping this cycle is the one for you, with the extra monitoring you will have

clairesmummy: thats a horrible dream, im guessing you are feeling pretty anxious about the inlaws visit, i also don't think you should have to leave your home while they are there but i know how uncomfortable i would be in that atmosphere

matthewsmum: good luck for your natural cycle

hi to age78

afm: well girls i got myself a :bfp: have been sitting on the news because quite frankly posting it here is scary because it means it is real and i also wanted to watch and see if the lines got darker, it was confirmed by blood test today. im just going to keep it in this thread for now ok and for those who have me on facebook please not a word on there as my brother is friends with some of my friends on there and im scared my family will find out and they are the last people i want knowing

Hey Minniemouse, CONGRATULATIONS! :clap: (Not sure how to do the dancing cheerleader bit!) Seems like the 2ww was worth it! Hope it is smooth sailing for you over the next couple of weeks! Just take it easy & try to relax! Sending big positive thoughts your way....!!!

:happydance::hooray::happydance:
i thought you were a bit quiet there minnie!!!!- CONGRATULATIONS xxxxxxxxx

me again :D

minnie- another big :happyforyou::leap::confetti: on your bfp, sounds like a sticky one, was your bhcg good?? I hope so, what a nice birthday pressie, I know you want to keep it quiet so let us know when we can have a real party!

claresmummy- those dreams sound horrible, you must be feeling really stressed about the inlaws and its coming out in your dreams. If you DTD the night before Oing, that is perfect timing so :crossfingers:

Loops- has you still got the spotting? Sounds suspicious, so I am :crossfingers: for you too!

Beautiful Sunbeam- how are you feeling babe? I am so sorry this one didn't work, but hope AF comes soon so you can get onto your bfp xxx

Hi crafty, matthewsmum and Age78, hope all is well with you all too x

afm- scan tomorrow, think I am on track, have been doing opks just to make sure, got ewcm already so no doubt i will O soon, can't wait to do another transfer and get into a tww again ( am i mad??). If I get a bfn we are going overseas for 3 wks in Sept so will not be doing another cycle til the end of the year, so something to look forward to either way xx

YAY for Minnie!!! :leap::happyforyou: Relax and takie it easy hun - all the best! xo

AFM ~ did POAS and BFN - 7DPO but it could be too early still - hoping.

thanks Saffy and age78 :-)

saffy: my hcg was 99 and progesterone was 130 so pretty good for the day af was due i think. good luck at your scan, i hope it shows a nice big follicle (or 2), an overseas trip sounds good, would you not still go if you got a bfp ?

afm: im having another blood test sat to see if the levels are rising (won't get the result until monday), my dr wants me to have a scan at 6 weeks but im not keen on that early because i would prefer to go when there is going to be a heartbeat if there is going to be one

Minnie - glad you feel comfy posting it I am still so excited!!!

thanks Joeve and loops, its all a bit scary, its hard to relax and trust my body is doing what it is meant to do. loops i hope you will getting another bfp soon !
joeve: i hope things are going well for you

Minniemouse - Whoo congratulations :happyforyou:What an excellent birthday pressie!:cheer: Your numbers sound great I really hope it is a good sticky bean. :stickyvibesgirl:

Saffy - Good luck with your scan tomorrow it is all sounding promising. I'm glad you have the OS trip to focus on as a back up, that's bound to make a BFP (they like to mess up our plans :D)

Loops - Your signs are sounding promising and the BFPs come in groups in here so you could be next. Yes 7dpo is way too early the very earliest I've read of is 9dpo but even that is quick. :crossfingers:

Clairesmummy - Cramps at 5dpo, could be implantation! Good luck with the outlaws, I hope they behave but if not I hope you find the strength to stand up for yourself. Sorry about the horrid dream I hate having bad dreams about my gorgeous kitty, makes me feel dreadful. :hug:

AFM - Thanks for all the love and support girls. AF is sort of here, very light at the moment, I'm hoping she picks up a bit tomorrow. I have decided to go back to the TCM man and get the herbs that you have to boil up into a tea because I felt really good on them last time and even though the bub passed I still feel like they were helping my body to hold it so it will be interesting being on them from before conception to see if they help with that too. Going to get donor daddy some menevit too, he's pretty stressed out at the moment and it can't hurt.

thanks Sunbeam, i hope af picks up tomorrow and you are feeling good again soon on the TCM

Hello ladies,

Just wanted to pop in and say hello. It's been a while. Got a nice surprise to read your news Minnie Mouse. Woot! Woot! Sticky sticky vibes!
Sunbeam: sorry that the second line did not stay for you. I hope you get a nice strong BFP soon.
Saffy: I hope you will get a BFP with one of your frosties but I applaud your bravery for thinking about the longer term and looking after yourself and your happiness by thinking about how long you want to pursue IVF with all the stresses involved.
Clairesmummy: Yay for a normal cycle and being spot on with BD timing. I hope you got a winner this month. Oh, and tough one about the in-laws. I hope you can run away for a few days if you need to so you and DD don't have to put up with the stress.
Loops: Hope this month is your month!
Mathewsmum: Hope your natural cycle pays off and you get to save your money for something else nice!
Craftymummy: Sorry you have had a funny cycle this month. Very frustrating for you.
Age78: I hope your stay here is short and you get a BFP soon!

Hello to anyone i missed.

Minnie - That is wonderful news. I will be watching Monday to see your next test results.

Minnie~ :happyforyou::happyforyou::happyforyou::cheer::blu echeer: Congrats darl, that is absolutely awesome news.....So so so so happy for you and your family.

Loops~ Praying it's just way to early to get your BFP darl, I have everything crossed for you, good luck and thinking of you.

Sunbeam~ Thank you hun, I would have a total heartache if I get a BFP this cycle, I have not had a normal cycle in the 3 years we have been TTC this is the first. It shall be interesting to see what length LP I have. Good luck to you this cycle darl I hope your egg and DDs swimmers get you your BFP. FX for you. I was devastated with that dream about our kitten, the next night I had another horrible dream about my aunt, DF and I we were driving in our truck and nearly crashed into flood waters then when we pulled up we reversed to go back where we came from and we drove over a very huge cliff and just before I woke up I thought to myself in my dream OMG we are all going to die, how the hell are we going to survive this fall..........Needless to say I had a better night last night. Thank goodness.

Saffy~ Hope your scan went really well for you darl, FX this is your cycle darl. If not how cool will it be to have a trip overseas maybe it is just what the DR ordered for you darl, FX either way. And if you head overseas I hope you have a wonderful time.

possumMagic~ Hey darl, how are you going? Hope all is going great for you. And thank you I hope you are right and we are lucky this cycle but I am not expecting it at all.

AFM~ Well I am now 7DPO and not much happening at all, Had a few AF type cramps yesterday thought she was coming but nothing so far. The horrid dreams stopped last night thank god I so needed a good night sleep that's for sure. Hope you are all having a wonderful week end and staying warm as it's a wee bit on the chilly side here today and it's raining. On some more news the outlaws have arrived and haven't stopped complaining since they got here last night. Will tell you all about when they go home.....:angry:

hi ladies ,minniemouse-congratulations!!!!!!!

hi girls,

thanks possum magic, india's mum (you girls should give us an update on how you are going ?), clairesmummy and matthewsmum :) (i hope thats everyone)

sunbeam: did af arrive ?

saffy: how was your scan ?

clairesmummy: fingers crossed for you in this 2ww, horrible things they are !

loops: any news from you ? hope that bfp is around the corner

afm: nothing to report really, had another blood test today, will get the result monday

Hi Lovely Ladies
Hope you're enjoying your weekend, Im at work

Minnie ~ thanks hun, I've got headaches and really not feeling PG unfortunately, my temp has been up and down but still pretty low really, have had some cramping and bouts of nausea though - we'll see but I'm not as confident now :( don't want to test just yet because I O'd so late and I reckon my system is a bit mucked up.
:pray: for a great scan result for you so that you can breathe easier, :stickyvibesgirl::stickyvibesboy:

Sunbean ~ thank you for your confidence and encouragement and your welcome too. Hope the herbs and Menevit do wonders for you guys! All the best hun!!

Possum ~ thanks for popping in and your kind wishes!! Hope everything is well with you.

Clairesmummy ~ hope everything is a bit better with the outlaws, :goodluck: you dont need that stress. Hope you can get away from them a little for some breathers!
Thanks heaps for your wishes and support xo

MM ~ hi and hope you are well

:pink-babydust::stickyvibesboy: for us all!

Hi girls,
loops- don't test I agree, wait it out a bit longer, hope your symptoms are not from AF xx
minnie- great numbers! Sounding very promising, hope the next BT builds your confidence even further xx
claresmummy- good that you can come on here and complain about your outlaws in private! Can't wait to hear the stories lol!. Cramping is a good sign so FX
:D hi indiasmum and possummagic GREAT to see you
sunbeam-I used herbs with my last transfer too, still have some so I should use them this time too. The menevit won't hurt either. Did AF get stronger?
matthewsmum-won't be long til you can do another cycle hopefully but FX for a natural bfp in the meantime
age78- hows things?
afm- had a stressful few days ( not ttc related, work and a sick cat being the main offenders) but my scan was good, had 3 good follies and lining good, I have been having daily BT and no surge yet but almost, so today should be the day, as have had ewcm for days, the nurse will ring with results later. Even managed to squeeze in a :bd: this weekend!

Thanks Saff ~ yep I will hold out another few days xo
Hope things are ok now with work and your cat - hugs. Great you managed to have some fun and I hope you have the best result ever (a very sticky BFP), real soon!! :crossfingers: tight for you.

hi everyone, my transfer is on Saturday because I had my LH urge yesterday- woohoo!!
Can't wait to be in the tww again and have some time off work

Hope everyone is well xx

Saffy~ Good luck for saturday darl, woohoo for catching your surge this cycle. I have everything crossed tightly for you darl.

Loops~ How are going? Any news yet? Sending you baby dust and sticky vibes darl. Good Luck.

AFM~ Well the OUTLAWS arrived here Thursday night, Friday came and the whole day was spent listening to the whine and complain about how cold it was here and the rain and how boring it is here and so on and so on. OMG it was driving me insane, didn't go to bad apart from the complaining, I guess at least the MIL spoke to me which was a huge shock to me. So they left Saturday morning and things went back to normal for us here at home, woohoo. :)
Today is 10DPO temp not up nor down sitting at 36.6 same as yesterdays temp. Had some red/pink blood yesterday after going to the loo so I reckon AF is not far away for me at all, I have been getting some really weird sharp pains way down in my hmmm girly bits, lol. Not sure how to explain it they go from my girly bits down there up to my lower hip area from time to time. Not bad pain just annoying. Anyhoo I reckon AF will arrive tomorrow for me, BBs are feeling hard and look a bit bigger which is an AF sign for me and I have had a couple of headaches.
Good Luck to everyone awaiting O day and everybody in the 2WW, FX and baby dust to you all.

saffy: great news about the planned transfer, yay for the closer monitoring this time :-)

loops: fingers crossed, im watching out for your updates

clairesmummy: im going with fingers crossed that was implantation and hopefully you will get a bfp in a few days :noaf::2ww::crossfingers:


afm: i got my 2nd hcg result, it had gone from 99 to 352, i'd like to say that relaxed me but the reality is i asked for more pathology forms so i can get more blood tests done to keep watching it

Hey Ladies
Saffy ~ woohoo, hope Sat comes around fast!

Clairesmummy ~ glad you can get back to normality with the outlaws gone. Your symptoms sound exactly the same as mine - well all apart from the sharp pains. I hope those pains are a good thing hun. My temp has been exactly the same - I desperately want them to shoot up to around 37dC :crossfingers:
Hope AF stays away from both of us! :bluedust::stickyvibesgirl:

Minnie ~ that's an excellent HCG result but I understand why you would still be worried. :stickyvibesboy::stickyvibesgirl:

Hi lovelies
Just popping in quick as I am at work.

Minnie - Awesome news on your numbers but I think we can all sympatise will the stress of early pg. Hoping and praying it all continues smoothly.

Claire'smummy- Good to hear you survived the outlaws without any big dramas. Hoping AF holds off for better news.

Saffy - Whoo excellent news babe roll on saturday. How many frosties are you putting back? I hope the cat and work dramas have sorted themselves out.

Loops - It says one day to testing, anything happening?

AFM - Whinge alert! I'm over it today, just feeling fed up with life. I'm bored with my new job already, bored with TTC, just bored! 40 is looming very close and I think its about time for a change of pace. Think I might be heading to Vietnam after Christmas if things do not change soon. Sorry, whinge over! AF was quite minimal and only 2 days as usual. I have a scan next wed to see how my eggies are going for this cycle.

Ohh Sunbeam ~ :hug::comfort:, I feel that way too sometimes so I feel your pain. Its hard when the one thing out of life you truly want we struggle to get. A holiday would probably be an excellent idea or would you be going for good?
Hope you get a really good scan hun. :pray:

I'm trying not to test because of the chem preg last cycle I just think my sytem may be out of whack and AF may be pretty late and I know it may seem negative but I'm just not feeling it. May test tomorrow though - so I know if its neg before AF comes and may not feel so let down.

Hi ladies
Firstly wow minnie a BFP congrats girl you kept that very quiet FX for a healthy 8 mnths and a take home baby !!!!
Sunbeam sorry it was a BFN I feel you pain and the turning 40 bit well I can barely remember it ( now Im 46 LOL ) its just another birthday your as young as you feel and besides I have had 3 BFPs since my 40th birthday and only 1 mc so your still in with a very good chance !!! cheer up and look forward to your turkey baster !!!!!
Saffy great scan results and relax and think happy thoughts on saturday I am sure you will be fine and your BFP is around the corner.
Matthewsmum Hi glad you haven't given up on us and keep trying even while your saving how can you not try ? I ask myself that every month !!!
clairesmum hope your outlaws don't stay too long lol
loops thanks for thinking of me and FX for a BFP !!!
anyone I have missed sorry I do have the kids on school holidays and they keep me busy so I am a bit brain dead atm !

afm stopped taking the vitex to be honest I felt so ill on it ( very very depressed and very dark thoughts ) not nice at all the headaches were dreadful too but since I stopped taking it a week ago I feel so much better and AF left and so now I am on day 11 and will start opks from tomoro and see whats happening

minniemouse - congratulations! I am so very happy for you, when is your first scan? I know it will probably not put you at ease completely, but it may make you feel a little better to see that heartbeat.

Loops~ How are going darl, hope AF is staying away from you, sending you some :pink-babydust: thinking of you darl, :2ww:

Sunbeam~ Good luck at your scan next Wednesday darl, hoping and praying this is your cycle to get your BFp darl. Hope you are having a better day today, and on a good note a very good friend of mine turned 40 this year and she informs me that 40 is the new 30. So on a lighter note for you darl you won't be 40 until you are 50, ;) I like the way she thinks. Take care of you and sending you some cyber hugs to help you through the rough times. :)

Crafty~ Sounds like it was a good idea to stop taking the Vitex it's a rough enough journey as it is with out something else helping us feel horrible hey. Big cyber hugs to you darl. Hoping and praying with all my might your cycle is a lucky one this month darl. My outlaws left Saturday morning , it was an eye opener having them here I can tell you, lol. Sometimes you wonder why you even bother trying to be pleasant to people who just have NO idea how to.....Thats my MIL, she is ALWAYS so negative about everything and that drives me darn batty to say the least.

MathewsMum-Age78-Saffy and anybody else I have missed,:hello: hope everything is going well for you all. Hugs and :bluedust: to everyone.

AFM~ Well finally got all my blood test results back today from the OB I went and seen a few weeks ago, I don't have Celiacs Disease, Diabetes and both DF and I are all NORMAL in the chromosones test, that's a relief off my mind. :wiggle:
Today I am 11DPO :noaf:as yet, temp. STILL sitting at 36.6 this morning no higher no lower that's 3 mornings in a row now. Not sure what is happening just waiting around for the horrible AF to show her face. Oh and I start my count down to my FS appointment soon, it's 4 weeks from this Thursday, I am actually really looking forward to going to this one just hope he can get me up the duff with a very sticky little take home bub.

Hi Lovely ladies
Just a quick one from me - BFN on POAS last night, I felt AF was coming so thought I'd just test.

Clairesmummy ~ hope your outcome is 100% better than mine, GL hun! FX'd tight.

Hope everyone is well :grouphug:

Hi Lovelies,

Crafty - I think that is a good idea to stop the Vitex, I'm glad the symptoms have gone with it. It is so odd that it has quite the opposite effect on me. I guess we all respond so differently to things. Good luck with O'ing I hope your cycle is back to normal.

Loops - I'm so sorry it was a BFN for you. I hope AF comes and goes quickly so you can try again soon, hugs :hug:

Clairesmummy - Dpo 11 isn't that quite a record for you? I hope its a good sign and AF stays well away. I'm glad all your tests came back clear that's great news lets hope the new FS has some answers for you.

Saffy - I hope the days are going by fast so your FET comes around quickly.

Minnie - How you feeling babe?

AFM - Thanks for all your encouraging words ladies. I am not concerned about turning 40 because I will be too old to conceive or because I'll be over the hill cos I don't feel anywhere near 40. I think it is much more that I just can't sit around waiting for things to happen in my life for much longer, I don't want to waste any more time. I have decided that I will be giving TTC till feb next year, that'll be 4 years. If nothing has happened by then I will be heading to Vietnam. I have also decided I won't be using the clinic or doing IUI's at all as I don't want to spend anymore money on this. It's not that I want it any less I just need to put some limits on it all. A huge part of having a child for me is so that my life is about more than just me. If I can't have a child of my own I will spend my time caring for little babies that are already here and making a difference in their lives. I feel very settled with my decision so I'm doing much better today.

:bfp:Just a quick one from me this morning have to get this down before it dissappears.....lol.
Did my temp again this morning and it has gone up a little bit to 36.7 this morning so I had one HPT left over from my last pregnancy and I thought to myself I can't wait any longer I have to know that I am waiting for dear ol' AF. Well I did the POAS thing and I can't darn well believe my eyes, it's very faint still but I got a :bfp: I can not beleive my eyes. I am 12DPO today so still early I guess but the line came up with just over a minute and I can still see the 2nd line if I hold it at arms length away. We only DTD twice this cycle and I seriously thought I DID NOT have a chance in hell of getting a BFP. I am totally petrified now and stressing big time need to calm down and try to take it as it comes. So anyhow I am off to town today to get some more HPTs, lol. Thank you for reading and I will be back later to do some persies.
xox

clairesmummy: :happyforyou::stickyvibesgirl::stickyvibesboy::lea p: congrats hun, so happy for you !

these things come in 3's girls, who is next ?


thanks craftymum & Luna :-)

sunbeam: sounds like a good back up plan you have, i hope you get to do vietnam eventually, in a few years with a child in your backpack

saffy: hope you are going ok, what happened with your cat ? hope work is ok now ?

loops: any updates from you ?

afm: going ok, boobs really sore, had bad stretching pain and backache last night, was pretty stressed about it, i hope it is ok, im going for more blood tests today.
i guess i need to move on from this thread now........i know it is hard to hear about pregnancy stuff and i don't want to be upsetting you girls.
of course im happy to be pregnant but im so sad to be leaving you girls and i wish you all good luck and i hope you all get your dearest wish and soon ! lets all crash the pregnancy after miscarriage thread ok ? i'll be stalking you all xo :grouphug:

Clairemummy yippee babe so excited! Take a deep breath and try to relax :)

Thank you Minnie and Joeve.
How are you going Joeve? Haven't heard from you in awhile darl, are you still riding your horses? Hope all is well with you darl, you are always in my thoughts. xox.

:hooray::hooray: Congrats clairesmummy thats 2 this month already BFPs I mean we have to have a 3rd wonder who will be the Lucky lady !!!!:D

Clairesmummy ~ so :happyforyou: All the best for the next 9months!! He/she will be a very sticky one - stay pos!! :dance:

Minnie ~ you must have missed my post - BFN for me. Feeling pretty low and at the moment but it'll pass. Will miss you in here - all the best hun. Please drop in from time to time and let us know how you are going xo

Claire'sMummy - So thrilled for you!! Will you start the baby aspirin today?

clairesmummy-congratulations!!!!saffy-fingers crossed for saturday...loops-sorry it was a 1 liner...minniemouse-all the best!!thinking of you all

Claresmummy- great news!!:dance::dance: I am sending you my stickiest :stickyvibesgirl::stickyvibesboy: for the stickiest baby ever xxx

minnie- sad to see you go please keep stalking us but you are DEFINATELY UTD so you need to relax as much as possible, all sounding so positive babe, I'm sure all will be good for this one, and in 9 months you will be cuddling your new baby xxxx

craftmummy- i hadthe same problems with vitex ( within a few days of taking it) my mental state doesn't need another excuse to drop its bundle, so no vitex for me either. Hope you lay an egg soon xxx

sunbeam- I am not far behind you in turning 40, we still look like spring chickens don't worry, crafty is testament to getting bfps after 40! Glad you have plan B but hoping you get a nice sticky one without the expensive clinics, I'm sure you will. Glad you are feeling ok xxxx

Loops- sorry ot hear about the bfn, hope AF comes soon so you can get going with your upcoming ivf cycle, I wish we all could afford to do as many cycles as we need but alas, they love ripping us off. xx

mathewsmum- good to see you still hanging around, hope theres a cycle for you soon too xx

nothing to report from me, just very emotional and stressed about every little thing at the moment, can't wait until saturday, although our foxtel remote just broke and DH is away- I can't do a TWW without foxtel!!!! :o