It has been a while since I have posted on this site so I'll start from the beginning again.
In 2006 I fell pregnant naturally after a little over a year of trying. At only six weeks I was taken to hospital with pain on my right side. It was an ectopic pregnancy and I lost the pregnancy and one of my fallopian tubes. I had Primary Peritonitus when I was 5 years old and as a result both my tubes were scarred. My IVF journey starts here...
Immediately I went to see Dr Michael Aitken at Fertility Spevialists of WA. He gave us a very good chance at IVF. I had a stim cycle soon after which resulted in 3 seperate blast transfers in the end. The second stim cycle began with a fresh blast transfered but it was a negaive result.
I was then refered to Dr Roger Hart at the same clinic who reviewed my case and decided that the problem could be a hydrosalpinx with my remaining tube and I went into surgery to have my other tube removed. He noticed I also had a septate uterus and while it was only slightly septate, he went in again about 6 weeks later to correct that.
I had a fifth transfer of a frozen blast that also turned out to be negative. By this stage I had two frozen blasts remaining. As I was about to do a frozen cycle, he noticed a very large cyst on one of my ovaries and put me on the pill for 3 months to try and at least reduce it. Three months later I went to get an ultrasound at a clinic that had a more powerful machine then the one at the IVF clinic. It turned out the cyst had come down a little bit but was still big. I also had a polyp. A polyp can also reduce the chances of implantation. So I had another lap to have the cyst and the polyp removed.
After a 6th transfer with a negative result I am now ready to do a 3rd stimulated cycle. The doctor has suggested that 6 transfers with someone my age (I have just turned 31) is a lot and has suggested PGD with our next full stim cycle. He warned us that there is a possibility that all our embryos could be abnormal and to be prepared for that. This left me devastated and I couldnt go into work the next day as I hadnt slept all night.
In reality, I think that since things have been fixed, I have really only had 1 transfer (and one before the polyp was discovered) so I dont think we have really done enough to warrant PGD. He disagreed and thinks it is best. The ectopic pregnancy (as sad as it was) was a pregnancy and is the only thing that has given us hope.
Sorry for the long story! I am wondering if anyone has gone through PGD and after how many transfers? We have been karyotyped and everything is normall for us at least. I am really confused as to what to do and am scared to have them tested as I really dont want to hear the bad news.
I have never heard or known of FS who would consider PGD for those with not known genetic issues. Though I can understand because the rate of success for blasts are very high, 50% in fresh transfer and 40% in FET. These figures are even higher than natural conception which is at 20%. If you have had a number of blast transfers and had BFN and if you have had ecto pg than that would cause FS to worry and want to test. It is scary to find out but then you would know for sure instead of continue trying and further getting BFN. I have had 1 m/c. If I further have m/c or BFN for my blasts transer chances are I might have to go down this part as well.
Kahlan, PGD is routinely used when there is a history of a failure to implant. It's not as widely known simply because most women don't get to the point of having 5 or more cycles, or recurrent m/c, and therefore never get to the point of being offered it.
Mona, My FS and I agreed to PGD when I had had 4 stim cycles and 3 FETs without the slightest sign of a pg (0 HCG in my system at all in all transfers). At that stage, it seems like a fair progression as we knew were had tried all we could. We actually fell pg on the cycle just before our PGD cycle so never ended up doing it, but in your case, if you feel that it's too soon, considering the other issues you've had to resolve along the way, you should make it clear to your FS that you'd like to try without PGD for a while. You are the patient and it's your call.
I actually agree with you in that you have not yet tried for long now that all the obstacles have been removed. Some find reassurance in PGD, in that they will know one way or the other if they're producing a higher than normal percentage of abnormal embryos. But I was never in a rush to do it, because you may end up with all abnormals in one cycle, and have a few normals in another. From cycle to cycle, it can change. The best you're getting with PGD is that you're not transferring abnormals, and therefore ensuring you're putting only 'normal' embryos back. But even this is no gaurantee.
After all that rambling, I guess what I'm trying to say is, YOU know if you're ready for PGD, and you don't sound like you are. It is a major expense and may not give you a whole lot more to go on. In the end, you must agree to your treatment, and if you wish to try for a little while longer without PGD, then why shouldn't you be able to? It's no skin of your FS's nose, and at most, you may do a few extra cycles before PGD. Who knows, maybe like me, you may never need it.
Last edited by sushee; August 14th, 2008 at 12:02 AM.
Thanks for your responses. I have had HCG readings a few times I think the first one was 28 or 29 and that was without the HCG injections. have been having accupuncture since a couple of weeks ago and the day after both times I have felt a bit sore so I am guessing the blood is flowing better?
Sushee, I have read your story on another thread and it made me cry although I was happy to hear the happy ending. Its hard not to get emotional hearing other people journeys!
We are still thinnking about what to do but we have until egg collection day to decide. On one hand it is a lot of money and stress to have the test but on the other hand it will be a more efficient way of doing things. I have thought about a life without kids or a kid but I cant imagine it.
Hi Mona, I have no experience with PGD so can offer nothing in the way of technical advice, but reading your post, i just felt the need to respond.
It sounds like you have been through a really tough journey and have now overcome some big hurdles which I'm guessing has meant you have really had to listen to yourself and your gut instincts. It sounds like you have made good decisions up to this point, so I'd keep trusting those instincts and if you feel you want to give it a go without PGD then do it, and reevaluate later if you need to...but fingers crossed for a BFP before you get to that point!
Thanks guys. Its great to have so much support. I had an appointment with Dr Hart today. It turns out I have another cyst but on my other ovary this time. It measures 6.5cm. He has put me on the pill for 3 months. I am getting him to have another look in 6 weeks to see how it is going. More waiting
HI MOna, I haven't done PGD either but am on the brink of going this path. For different reasons to you, however. I have just suffered my 4th heartbreaking m/c ( all AC cycles but not full IVF).
I know my FS will be pushing PGD but I am not jumping at this route quite yet as we have only had one baby proven to have genetic fault (trisomy 15). My decision will depend on findings from my most recent m/c
I did want to point out to you, that not all reccurrent IVF failures (or m/c's) are due to poor embies. The fact that you get blasties indicates your embies must be reasonable quality. have you thought of looking into immunological causes eg NK cells etc.
There is a very good DR at IVF Australia in Sydney whom I found out about through the lovely ladies on BB. he specialises in reccurent IVF implantation failures and m/c's. I know he is a long way away but he does do phone consultations. I am having one next week as I don't live in NSW either
Just a thought for another option for you. PGD certainly is expensive and like you, I don't want to go through all that if its not actually going to change the outcome. If your embies and my babies are "normal", then PGD would get us nowhere.
Hi MeredithD
Thanks for the tip on the doctor. A phone consult sounds good. I asked my FS about Lupus and he said I had been tested for that and all was good. I will ask about that one you mentioned. They did a heap of blood tests when I first joined the clinic so I'm not sure if they have explored those issues already but I will definately find out.
Sorry to hear about your m/c's and I hope you get answers soon too.
I have been meaning to repsond to this thread for days but keep gettin sidetracked.
We are doing PGD as I have had 3 miscarriages now (all natural conceptions) with no apparent cause for them. yes it is expensive but it actually turned out to be the cheaper option for us. On our first cycle of IVF we got 17 eggs of which 12 feritilised and 10 made it to day 3 which is when they biopsy them. Now on a normal cycle all of those ten egg were deemed grade 1 awesome little suckers so we could potentally have had one transferred and frozen the rest. Only one of them passed PGD testing, meaning if we had not had the testing we would have forked out thousands on frozen cycles that were doomed to failure..financially we would have been worse off than ever.
So I guess I look at from the other side that it was beneficial to us..... only future cycles will show if there is pattern of dodgy embryos..hopefully it was just a one off and the next cycle gives us a ton of good ones!!!!
Oh and I second Meredith tip re Gavin Sacks...we actually flew to Sydney overnight in March and had his tests done which did show an autoimmune issue which also would prevent me carry a pregnancy...fortunately it is treatable now that we know it exists. I do not hesitate to reccomend a consult with him if you do decide to do PGD cos there would be nothing worse than forking out the extra $5000 if the "oven" aint working properly either. all we paid was the cost of the consult...the blood tests were bulk billed and as they say "knowledge is power" especially in this game!
Sorry to sidetrack this thread but quicky for Melbel since you're the only person I've actually found who has done PGD
a) who did you do it through - Monash IVF?
b) how much did it cost?
I am assuming your first cycle did not make it. if you are embarking on another then i wish you all the very best of luck!
Hi Melbel
I have read so many stories where people have only ended up with one or two and sometimes no normal embryos. I'm glad you had one to transfer. I guess I am scared to find out that none are viable. I know its cheaper in the long run as we have had 12 great blasts all up in both the cycles. Only six have made it to transfer though. Its just annoying that all that time the embryologist and FS was telling us they were good enough to transfer and now they are saying that they cant really tell without the test. We have opted for a SCSA test for my DH and should get the results soon. Also the last time my eggs were collected, my DH was told to abstain for a few days prior to giving his sample and now they have found its better not to abstain at all. I am hoping that now a few variables have changed it will help.
Meredith, we are with Melbourne IVF.....Monash is much closer to us but Melbourne has a better continuity of care system I have found, plus the FS I chose works at melbourne not Monash.
We paid just under $5000 out of pocket for a full PGD cycle start to finish but as our last one was about 10 months ago prices may have changed a bit (as they tend to do in the IVF world!!!) ......Hope that helps!
Mona we are also having the SCSA test done before our next cycle....have been doing a big detox year for both hubby and I with naturopathy etc to see if it makes a diference at the end of the day.
Thanks Mel. I think Monash prices are probably fairly similar to what you paid. Its a lot of $$ but I get your point about at least not wasting more $$ and more importantly, mental resources, on endless failed cycles and m/c's. I am swayin g like a yo-yo atm about whether to go this route or not.
Will partially depend on results from my latest loss but even if they come back normal this time, I will still be tempted to at least try and avoid another random trisomy loss.
One more Q - whats SCSA?
Well, my DH had a SCSA test done and he rang up for the results yesterday. He said he has 17% and I am guessing that is fragmentation but not sure as he didnt really ask what it meant. The embryologist said that 0-15 is excellent, 15-30 is good and anything over 30 is poor (quality?). Anyway, he also said that that didnt mean much for us. I think they were thinking the problem is more me then him anyway but at least now we have ruled him out. I wonder if anyone actually gets 0%?
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