hi there,
I want to find some credible research and comparison on the environmental impact of using BOTH cloth/pocket nappies and disposables. I think maybe Choice has done some reseach??
i am concerned more about the increased use of water due to washing but also I realise that in order to make disposable nappies, there are many resources to be used in the manufacturing to this. Then there is the issue of increase ENERGY in the form of heating hot water to wash cloth nappies and extra flushing of toilets to get rid of excess poo...
but then again there is the issue of landfill for disposables and use of chemicals. But then again there is the use of detergents in washing nappies !! Ahh...
I am wanting to weigh up pros and cons for both - in the environmental sense. I am happy to pay extra either way if it means a better environmental choice, and as I say, particularly in saving water and protecting our waterways - since i will be living within spitting distance of the ocean and other important waterways very soon !!
Whilst waiting for my GD test I came across a green magazine that just happenned to have an article on this very subject.
It basically said the damage to the environment is pretty much identical.
It said that cotton takes huge amounts of water to produce it, as do most other crops that nappies can be made out of. As you said the water & chemicals which are in almost all laundry products you wash nappies in is bad too.
With disposables it said that way less water was used to make them. I think it said that the chemicals used to make them was about the same as what you would use in washing cloth. Of course there are landfill issues with disposables.
I was already thinking disposables at that stage and didn't feel guilty for choosing them after reading that article.
I also buy Aldi disposables which are not made in Australia where we have water shortages like we do in Melbourne so I feel like I'm saving our water just a little. The ones I've had are made in Germany which as far as I know do not have any water shortages. Of course there are added carbon miles by buying something from overseas.
It's all very hard to work out, but the article said it was 50/50.
Just a side note WRT flushing poo down the toilet - you are supposed to flush all faecal matter down the toilet anyway, be that from cloth OR disposable, in some states it is illegal not to.
I read a study I found on google scholar that said that if you take no envirinmentally friendly measures when using cloth then its practically the same impact. But if you use flushable nappy liners (eliminating the need to soak), water-saving options on your washing machine (keeping the 'suds' for the garden etc), natural sanitising agents for the nappies, a green detergent, cold wash, and line dry... you are making your cloth choice more environmentally friendly.
ETA: I wash my cloth in cold water, and they come up absolutely fine
ETA#2: If you installed a tank and used it to do washing that would be even better!
Last edited by Indadhanu; October 8th, 2008 at 03:11 PM.
: typo, ETA
I wash in cold too, i also use an enviro powder for the nappies so that when i get around to it the final rinse water can go outside.
For me, it wasnt just the water it was what i was putting on my baby's bum that mattered more.
we have had no rashes at all and MJ has never been in sposies.
The cost in not ongoing (unless you like to indulge in cute nappies) so there is more money in my pocket.
nappycino has some good information.
Infact when i was pg i read loads and loads of articles to try and weigh it up. just google it, loads should pop up.
Cloth sits better with me... i love seeing the line of freshly washed nappies (and no its not taht much effort) I also know that the next baby that i have will be in the same nappies and if my sister has babies she will inherit my stash, so it goes alot further than just one baby in cloth... i guess if you factor more children into the equation cloth comes out better
But I use "enviro" powder, and only a fraction of what they recommend per load.
No soaking required.
A lot of cloth nappiers are made out of natural materials, not man made.
I wash in cold, as do most I think.
We dont flush because of a little baby poo, the next one in flushes when they are done...
We are also on tank water too.
So I think my impact for using cloth now is a good one!!!
Definatly better than when I used disposables. The days of washing in hot with heaps of powder are gone. The new MCN make it easy and in my opinion, a much better impact.
ETA.... I worked out I can cloth Kane and the next bubba from birth to toilet training, for the price of only 6 months of disposables for one child...Not bad!!!
Last edited by Pretty Butterfly; October 8th, 2008 at 03:22 PM.
I spent $100 in cloth nappies (I have 12 cheap fitted Environap brand nappies off ebay, plus two packs of terry flats), plus some pilchers ($10), plus liners ($8 each). We have been through almost 3 boxes of 200 nappy liners so almost 600 nappies. Had we been using disposable that would have cost us upwards of $200 already (considering that she has been in 'infant' size since 3 weeks). I don't have to spend any more on nappies except pilchers when she grows out of these ones and liners every so often.
So, if you were concerned about the extra energy used to wash etc, you could make contributions to green energy with the money you save when you use cloth.
Environmental issues aside, I just hate the concept of use it once and throw it away. I is that mentality that is the real cause of alot of our issues these days. Nappies are just a tiny fraction of the problem.
I agree, TRADITIONAL cloth nappies do take an environmental effect, and they are what is usally quoted.
MCN actually dont use much at all. Most are made from Plantation Bamboo, straight from china and not Autralian cotton. China do not have water restrictions and the Bamboo is a weed over there. so really we are doing them a favour by using their weeds to save our water. I only do a load of washing as I have a full load and fill my machine up completely. I put the water on my garden using a grey water hose, and in my old house we had bore water attached to the laundry, but up here we have to use mains (which is far too chlorinated to drink anyway) I also use an environmentally frindly detergent and the minimum recommended for a large load (my machine is HUGE!)
Each disposable does actually take quite a bit of water to produce and that water cannot be returned to the soil because of the chemicals used in disposables. To put it more simply, Do you find a pad more comfortable than plain undies? do you like the feel of their 'cloth like cover' against your skin? I find it quite itchy and it can encourage yeast infections.
I have saved hundreds on nappies since I started using them with 2 in cloth. I actully only do 1 extra load per week and NEVER soak. Drypailing all the way for us.
thanks for the replies so far ladies,
I have actually used a combination of cloth fitted nappies and disposables with my first child. I found that the fushable liners were only good some of the time for catching the poo, and there was some rashes due to faecal matter on his bum (yes, I did change regularly). I also used HEAPS more wipes and or face washes to clean up the mess!! So this added to washing and water useage.
I do agree that having a great water saving front loader (which we have) and using cold water AND having a water tank AND using enviro power and putting the rinse water onto the lawns is really great.....but we will be renting for the babies first 6 months at least so probably NO water tank and would have to seek advice/permission about grey water systems.
Satya - would of loved to read that article! I think that I am still not convinced either way that one is better than the other - remember I am NOT talking about saving of money,
Ladies who use cloth or fitted or pocket - please enlighten me more about what exactly the process you use to wash them - any soakers, what powder, and I would think that you would need to wash the nappies separately to other clothes? NOt sure if I like the idea of putting smelly, dirty nappies in with everything else? I certainly remember some VERY dirty nappy days....
The process of how I wash my mcn:
I don't use liners. Never had, I've never had a need to. With pooey nappies, scrape the poo into the toilet. Put in the bucket. Don't use anything to soak them in, it will ruin the nappies. Every 2nd day I do a load of nappies in cold water. Depending on how many nappies I have to wash, sometimes I do the nappies with the clothes. There is no problem with doing this, it all gets cleaned in the washing machine. With mcn, it's best to only use half the recommended usage of laundry detergent. And the sun is the best way to dry them, and to also get stains out. None of my nappies have stains on them at all.
HTH.
No need for a grey water system.... My dad just went to Bunnings and got some tubing, connected it to the end of the washing machine hose, and ran it out the door when they wash. As long as you use "green" powder, all good!!!
I have only just started cloth, and have only washed twice, but here goes...
*I use one extra wipe at change time IF there is poo, to scrape the nappy out a bit...(rinse if yucky!)
*I put my nappies and inserts in a bucket as is... dry pailing...
* I wash a full load all together, with 1/4 of the cup of green powder. I put it on the soak cycle, so no extra rinsing. Washed in cold.
Came in off the line BEAUTIFUL, all clean and bright!!!
I dont think that how I washed had any where near the impact that disposables would have for the two days, on two kids... up to 16 disposables compared to one load of washing in cold with green powder...
Jodi, I dont use liners either, noone in the MCN threads metioned them either...
Last edited by Pretty Butterfly; October 8th, 2008 at 04:26 PM.
If there are 'roll off' poos they go in the toilet but sloppy poos I take out to the backyard hose and hose the poo into the garden bed. It is a good fertiliser.
I dont soak - at all. I use Earths choice liquid and have a hose that comes straight from the machine to my yard. I make sure the hose goes to a different part of the lawn every time though, because the suds to make the soil spongy if they are always going to the same spot, which makes it hard to mow the lawn.
I only ever throw the nappies in with other things when it is just wee or they have already been rinsed well. I only ever use 1 cloth wipe per nappy. Maybe 2 if it REALLY bad but my wipes are a decent size. The wipes dont take up very much room in the machine. Sometimes I use Microfleece liners if they are getting red bums or on anti biotics or having panadol but usually I dont need to. They get more rash in cheap sposies than cloth.
Cloth kids also usually TT quicker. So you are doing less long term damage with regard to water and landfill than Disposables. DD1 is Daytime TTed and was 1 of the first in her age group at child care.
Cloth will only work if they are the right cut for your child. some children suit wide crotch nappies only and some suit Narrow crotch only. Disposables only come in wide crotch, so for some of the Narrow suiting children, Disposables will ALWAYS leak. no matter what brand!
By the way, we have always rented. I take my grey water hose with me whichever house we are in and the landlords never have a problem with it because the grass stays green and we are not going outside of water restrictions. The way I see it is, If I wasnt using it on the washing, I would be using it on the garden anyway to keep my lease. I actually use less water now than I did while I had only 1 child in disposables.
And when it comes to environmental factors, i also use green energy. My house is on 100% green energy plan, so i dont feel guilty having my washing machine running every day. I do what I can to look after what we have been given planet wise. With our family of 4 and having DH needing clean clothing every day for work we have it running daily no matter what.
I also have enough nappies to fill my washing machine when I do leave them for a few days, so you dont have to wash with everything else, if you have enough nappies.
Nothing like a cuddle from DD after a hard day's work!
Oct 2007
in my own world
3,267
Hi Runnermum,
In regards to rinsing poo and using wipes etc, I use EC. Only started using this when i went on MCN which was a few weeks ago.
When baby looks like she's about to do a poo, I take her to the toilet. Sometimes i don't make it in time and there is a little poo stain which i rinse quickly rinse and into the pail.
I dont use wipes cause DD has ezcema, so I use a wet cloth (hanky) (which can be thrown in with the nappies to wash).
I only wash when there is a full load on short wash with a teaspoon of eco store washing powder. I have a front loader.
I then use the sun to dry the stains away.
I must admit, helping the environment was the second reason why I chose cloth, the main reason was because DD has ezcema and disposibles sometimes caused her bum to be inflammed =(
What type of fitted nappies were you using, runnermum? Did you have access to the modern covers made from PUL or wool or fleece? A breathable cover can do wonders for nappy rashes.
But they'll get poo on their bum regardless of which type of nappy you use, surely? I hate when Natty gets poo burn (so does she, obviously!), but the only way to avoid it seems to be the luck of early detection, lol. We use fleece liners. They are easier to clean and protect the actual nappy. As for using more wipes etc, not sure how that figures. Natty is in sposies every now and again (like when we go on holidays) and we use the same amount of wipes either way. In fact, I find cloth wipes are HEAPS more efficient at cleaning her bottom - I only need to use one, whereas I have to use at least 2 disposable wipes when I have run out of cloth ones.
Here's how we do it in this house:
Scrape off poo (have a designated utensil for this). Place nappy in pail.
Use a smaller amount of your regular washing liquid/powder.
If money isn't an issue, have enough nappies in your stash to get through until you have a full load and just wash nappies together. I only wash nappies with nappies generally.
thanks for all the great replies from cloth users - much appreciated! would still love to hear the OTHER side of the story too please!
can you help me out with some of the acconyms some of you have used.....what is EC in regards to wipes? And what is MCN?
Christy - to be fair to those mums who use disposables, I think 400 years to break down in landfill may not be correct, and nappies only make up a very small amount of this on landfill - we should be looking at other ways as individuals to reduce landfill - although I do agree nappies take a LONG time, but not 400 years!
And as far as toliet training goes, my first born child has Autism, so TT early was never going to be early anyway!
What do you recommend to be the best, time effective cloth fitted/pocket nappy to use?? Time effective in terms of not leaking, not needing liners, and washing well. NOt really interested in going back to folding and using all kinds of clips on traditional nappies.......
things have changed a fair bit since i had my first (nearly 6 years ago).......so please get me up to date and convert me if you can!!
environmental issues - cloth or disposables??
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