Is this child abuse?

I would totally go the fence over extra locks. I grew up in Northwest WA and spent a lot of time of stations with friends who lived on them and etc. If there is a fire and you have to spend extra time with locks it's very worrying. A shock wouldn't hurt him - as said above - it's a stingy tingle, from my experience (on a dairy farm).

I don't see the fence as child abuse at all, especially considering your circumstances. What is the cost of electric when compared to one of those big cylone fences with the large overhang on the top? Maybe a bit cheaper and just as effective.

Of course that wouldn't stop him taking to it with the wire cutters in a few years! :-P

If you had a small enough weave in the fence wire, it may even keep a couple of the Blake's out!

Do what you need to. I highly doubt he will grow up saying "I feel abused becuase of Mum's fence". As you said - finding him down a well, dying from a snake bite or wandering off and getting lost and dehydrated in the bus would all be HORRIBLE options.

we have an electric fence on our property to stop the dogs escaping, and it's done none of us any harm.
i think some of the extremist posters on here need to get off thier soap box - protecting a child from being hit by a truck or bitten by a snake is nothing like child abuse. if the poor bugger didn't care about her child, she wouldn't go to the effort of putting up a 300m electric fence to protect him.

Yeah that ^^ !!

I don't really see an issue - growing up on farms the house fence was always electric so I don't see much difference! However, if you're uncomfortable with the idea you could put an angle on the top of the fence - angle inwards if that makes sense? Good luck!


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well said Christy.
Outbackwoman, this post has created lots of great ideas for you to explore and trial, and I wish you all the best in your quest to keep DS safe and happy.
Your motives are well intentioned, that is clearly evident. What you do to your property is your business. Speak to CPS and KIDSAFE as well to get more information, as has been suggested.
Patience will see you through this situation hun :)

I am guessing my post is one that is considered "extremist". I was merely answering the question posed by Outback Woman whether erecting an electric fence to contain a wandering child could be construed as child abuse. As someone who has worked in the child welfare sector in Victoria for over 10 years I answered her query - that it would not be considered an appropriate solution for the situation by protective authorities. No one is doubting the difficulties faced by OW and her DH - or anyone else for that matter - in keeping a close watch on her child 24/7, nor is anyone suggesting she is negligent, or somehow otherwise a bad parent. The reality is that our legal system does not condone a "lesser harm" as an attempt to prevent a "greater harm".
I agree with some of the posters that it might be a good idea to contact Kidsafe. They are a great organisation and they will, no doubt, have some ideas to help.

Once again, best of luck!

n2l

Mentioned briefly above was an angled bit on top of the fence - this is really worth looking into.
It's often used to contain cats in gardens - very hard to climb over a fence that has the top half meter or so angled inwards about 45 degrees.
I know cats and toddlers are different kettles of fish entirely but the physics still stands :)

What you are saying n2l has reminded me of something that happened in the news about a year ago...

This woman has custody of her Daughters children after she couldn't care for them (I'm not sure if she died or was sick or whatever) anyway, one of the children escaped whilst this woman had her back turned..
The child ran straight for the flooded cause way which happened to be during some bad floods and was being filmed by a TV crew.. She chased this child and caught her by the arm just as she was about to get to the water, dragged the child back quickly and smacked her bum.

All this was caught on camera by the news crew and it sparked the debate about smacking children, and because this child was not actually her child, it was major news at the time..

The news crew then went and interviewed the woman (obviously sensing a story was going to come of it) and she said she smacked out of fear, and that it would have been a lot worse if the child has actually got to the water, and that maybe that smack would make the child think twice about doing it again (as the child was too young to understand danger etc)

Anyway... a few days later they were interviewing the minister for Child Protection (who were damming this woman and trying to get the kids removed) and one smart reported asked the minister "Do you smack your kids" and his response? "You're damn right I do!"

What I'm trying to say is this... IRL things are not so cut and dry, or black and white, parents do what they think is best for their children at the time... so whilst I am going to go ahead with the putting of extra locks on doors and windows for keeping DS inside, I'm also going to go with a low voltage electric fence, because I think it's a bit like the woman who gave that child a smack, maybe just maybe, it might save his life...

AND I am happy for those who feel extremely strongly about not doing this, to the point that they are worried for the safety and care of my child, PM me, and I will give you my home address and phone number so you can call DOCS. because I think they would take one look at the dangers surrounding our house and meet DS and turn around and get back in their car..

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we have an electric fence on our property to stop the dogs escaping, and it's done none of us any harm.
i think some of the extremist posters on here need to get off thier soap box - protecting a child from being hit by a truck or bitten by a snake is nothing like child abuse. if the poor bugger didn't care about her child, she wouldn't go to the effort of putting up a 300m electric fence to protect him.

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I totally agree with this..

I couldn't imagine having a child that would escape all the time let alone the fear of what could go wrong if he did wander to far.. My eldest used to laugh when he learnt to open the front door so we bought a chain lock. Obviously it was just the one door but I think if I was in your situation I would consider the electric fence.

and if anyone asks I would just say it was to keep any animals out ;)

As someone who has lived with it... it is exhausting, frustrating, terrifying and crazy to live with an escaping child. The fear that they could get hurt if you aren't one step ahead is something I will always live with. I endured 5 years of escapism, we still have moments of it. If DD1 gets something in her head about doing something outside (let's say go to the park) and has to wait more than 5 minutes, she opens windows and jumps out, scales the 6 foot fences (different house, same size fences) and runs. We put nails on the windows for 6 months so that they couldn't be opened more than 5cm, but she wound up bending the nails through pressure and it became worthless.

I forgot about KidSafe, so I reckon thats a good idea as well. Its so hard to figure out how to keep these kids safe. I have never thought about electric fences or the alarms for the elderly and if we could afford either, I probably would do it. I wouldn't think twice.

Given the state of the child welfare system in Victoria (and probably other states) they should have higher priorities than even going out to check on an electric fence erected by a very concerned mum.

A neighbour has a fence around her house to fence in her horses. The top bit has an electrified bit (as an ex city dweller, I'm really not up with the jargon) The fence faces the road/footpath. There are numerous children who play, walk and cycle in this road who would potentially go to say hello to the horses and potentially get a shock. My own children included. I'm sure some people would complain to the horse owner that their poor children could get shocked. We live in the real world. One little shock is not going to do a great deal of damage and will teach my child not to go sticking her hands where she shouldn't.

My DD already knows how to open both front doors and out back door when they are key locked! She is SO fast too...has got out a couple of times and WHOOSH she's gone! We live right on a busy highway (no front yard or anything, just front door then highway) so I know I'll be doing whatever I need with locks or etc to avoid her getting flattened.

I think OW did the right thing in bringing it up...we all have different circumstances and all want our kids to be safe, so discussion is required.

OW - hope you find a solution soone rather than later!

I haven't read all the replies but I will. Personally I would see the electric fence as a last resort - and I certainly can understand how difficult this situation is. My youngest has a disability & she escapes everything. It does my head in. Thankfully she doesn't try to escape from home. But more car seats, my hand at shops etc. She just does the bolt. It is incredibly difficult so you have my every sympathy. I can see you are earnestly seeking a positive solution and that is what peer support is all about. So good on you.

I've been thinking about this and I am sure that Kidsafe could help you. Have a google but in Nursing Homes and psych facilities there are alarms that are horrendous when someone has explored a boundary they shouldn't! Often there is a device on the patient and it sets off the alarm when the boundary is crossed. There must be something like that for homes.

I am thinking that from a legal perspective that using what is essentially pain (perhaps this is how it would be construed - just thinking out loud really) to prevent injury could still be seen or viewed as inflicting injury. I am not sure about the voltage used etc but is it possible that it could set off a heart arrhythmia? These are the things I would be concerned with & I imagine the authorities would be.

I totally understand and empathise with your position - I can see you are trying to protect and care for your little boy & I am glad that you have had 3 pages of suggestions. :hug:

OW - we grew up on a farm and were surrounded by electric fences. The cow paddocks had them, the stallion paddocks had them, the dams had them. No-one even considered it child abuse, it was just what you did. And the shock from an electric fence is not massive, for those who have never felt one before. It is basically a 'shock' and a tingly feeling. It is not like OW is suggesting zapping him with a cow prodder (which does hurt by the way :)). We were never tramatised by the fences in anyway and still - 20-30 years later - all have a ' day I got shocked by the electric fence' story to tell. My dad still has an electric fence around certain horses paddocks and they are made sure to be switched on when the grandchildren visit (and that includes my DS).
Our garden at the farm had a massive fence around it - almost like a wire mesh type fence - that was too flimsy to climb but very high (no good with heights but would say about 7 or 8ft high) and also was fixed into the ground, so there was no chance of going over or under it. I would imagine the most expensive part of it would of been the high posts that held it up.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do - your DS does sounds very intelligent and active. I know the feeling of having a little boy who just wants to be out where the action is!

oh hun :hug: I stress enough about my DS around the house and general yard, let alone out of a station. Maybe think about putting the slide locks at the tops of the windows and doors, so he cant reach them no matter what he stands on.

I will say that I have seen my brother try to dive through an electric fence (one of the orange ones, that was thread about 6 foot high, about 5 lines high) and he got tangled in it, it was horrific for me to watch, I was only about 7, my brother 8. My brother ended up with burns from it. If there is another path, chicken wire dug into the ground, a "roof" on the current fence, new locks etc, try that first. Given how small a 3 year old is, chances are he will try to slip through it.

Good luck hun, cant be easy to find a solution.

Can't you put those slide bolts on the doors? You know, with the chain and put them up really high?

My girls can both get those off easily... it took DD1 10 minutes in our new house.... she pulled a chair, put a box on the chair and climbed right up to unlock it.

Oh gosh, Outback Woman, what an incredibly difficult, stressful situation you are in. I dont have anything constructive to add but I wanted to offer you a :hug: and the best of luck finding something that works. I think that if the electric fence is your only option then do it.

N2L- are you saying that OW should be supervising her toddler when she's asleep? How is that possible? Maybe her and her DH could take it in shifts, or should she just not sleep at all?

NOTE- I'm NOT trying to attack you, I just dont understand how it's possible to supervise a child 24/7 and am trying to understand how the "system" works in that regard.