Help?! DD is absolutely inconsolable at the end of the day

[pash]

Hiya, I'm hoping someone can help with this cos I'm at the end of my tether...

DD is almost 4 months old and until about 2 weeks ago, she naturally did the feed-play-sleep thing during the day and same at night without the play. Brilliant, couldn't ask for better. I had to either feed or walk her to sleep (in HAB) though, but didn't mind cos I was happy to feed her to sleep and DH happy to walk her to sleep.

Now, she doesn't sleep as much during the day (3 x 30min catnaps), and it's really hard to get her down. She doesn't fall asleep feeding or walking. Sometimes takes 2 hours to get her to sleep for 30mins. So by 6pm, she's absolutely wretched, and inconsolable. Nothing we do seems to help. It seems she really just needs to cry it out (in our arms) and then eventually falls asleep.

I'm so confused by it all, I'm not even sure what to ask...

Maybe:

1) Does the feed-play-sleep thing make sense to everyone? I'm starting to think play-feed-sleep makes more sense. I mean, I'm always sleepy after a big lunch! Are there any negatives to doing play-feed-sleep? Has anyone tried it? Cos at the moment we're doing feed-play-feed-cry-catnap, repeat.

2) How can I get DD to sleep longer? Feeding, walking, rocking, patting, music, wrapping don't always work.

3) I'm sure I have something else to ask... if anyone can help me to fix this, I'll be grateful for ever. I just want her to not have to cry to sleep. She's so adorable when she's happy.

The great thing is that she feeds to sleep at night. I am so sooo so grateful for that.

PS These are the settling things I've tried, all while wrapped and with music:

feeding
feeding lying down
patting with dummy
walking and singing

[Netix]

I haven't been 'strict' (for want of a better word) enough to get my kids into a real routine, but when i have been, the feed-play-sleep has worked fairly well.

The only thing I can suggest to try is where does DD sleep? Is it in her own room? Just thought maybe if she slept in a noisier room (ie, the lounge or something) where you are that might help. Sorry, not much help I guess, but hope it improves soon for you.

[sloane]

i wish i'd written more down because i find it hard to remember even 4 months ago now but i'm pretty sure my DS went through a similar phase at around 3-4 months.

1) i think that feed-play-sleep may work for some babies but certainly not all of them. i never really did it because DS has always been quite hard to settle without being drowsy from a feed, plus he's always been a very hungry baby so in the early months i wanted to feed him before sleep to get as long a nap as possible!i think that around 2 months i started doing the feed-play-feed-sleep & then DS would go down for his nap & i'd push him in his pram (he slept in the pram bassinet for pretty much the first 3 months) or rock him & he'd have a tiny cry then sleep. at some point he changed himself to feeding to sleep rather than just to drowsy. i think the negatives for me are that now DS nearly always feeds to sleep for both naps & night time sleeps & it means overnight that i need to feed him back to sleep. however, i believe the positives (he goes to sleep happy & calmly, it's natural) have outweighed the negatives & there are gentle ways to break the habit (which will be soon because he wakes alll the time overnight, but that's a whole diff thread )

2) i found that naps were all over the place until DS turned 6 months(ish). DS changed from settling without any help in his pram to needing to be pushed, to only wanting to sleep on me (that was around the 4 month mark i think), to actually being put down for a nap. so yeah, around 4 months the only way i could get a decent nap from him was to hold him. i think a sling probably would have helped but as i only have the one, it was a good chance for me to rest as well i've tried extending DS' naps through patting him as he transitions through sleep cycles & it's been hit & miss for us. the theory is that if you do it consistently over a few days/a week they will start to sleep longer on their own. do you have a naptime routine? DS got a lot more aware around 4 months but it still took me another 2 months to click that i needed to have some sort of wind down routine away from noise etc. now i feed him in a dark room, with a different pillow, before any sleep time - it's not a major routine but it is an indication to him that it's sleep time. now he starts rubbing his eyes as soon as we go into the room before a nap/bedtime.

3) what about a brief massage before sleep? rocking? it sounds like she might just be overtired by the time evening comes around - what about a slightly earlier bedtime? do you do a bath in the evening?

you've probably tried them all already, but they're just what's springing to mind! tbh, DS pretty much cried himself to sleep in the evenings until he started feeding to sleep. i'm looking at how to break the habit in the next month or two but it has been a godsend until now

sorry for writing so much

[MantaRay]

pash, it can be really hard when you have things working well and something changes This is a common age for things to start changing, as your DD is at an age where her brain and physical skills are starting to develop rapidly. It is really common at this age for babies to want to feed more often, it seems to be a part of the rapid brain development.

The first thing that occurs to me from reading your post, is that your DD might be getting overtired. It might be that she needs to have her first sleep of the day earlier now. If you miss the "tired window" it can be very hard to get them down. It can help to look out for the tired signs - redness around the eyes, jerky movements etc, or otherwise maybe you could just try putting her down a bit earlier.

The other thing that jumps out at me is that she might be wanting more feeds at this age. How often would you say she's feeding in 24 hours at the moment? My boys naturally fell into a feed-play-feed-sleep pattern, so perhaps you could try that to see how it goes. All babies are different so that might not work for your DD, but sometimes it can help to try something different.

All the best with it hun. You are doing a great job and I know you will get through this

[Peg]

i would think that 'feed-play-sleep' would have livened her up rather then settled her for sleep...but being very young when she was in that pattern may be the reason why she did that. As they grow their needs do change, so maybe she is just going thru a stage where 'feed-play-sleep' is making her more awake.

Before sleep she may need to do something quiet and relaxing such as feed or bath. And if you are already playing music, maybe try without the music and see if that makes a difference.

My only suggestion for getting her to sleep longer is to ensure she is in a dark room where it is quiet and make sure she is warm and comfortable. A 4 mth old should be sleeping longer then 30 minutes so perhaps there is something causing her to wake up. Does she have a wet or dirty nappy when she wakes up? Do you notice any loud noises coming from outside just before she wakes up?? Does she have wind? I'd be looking for a reason why she's waking up so soon after being put down.

And with regard to crying herself to sleep, does she do this while you are holding her? If she only does this when she is down in her bed or pram, try nursing her to sleep and then putting her down once she is fully asleep. I did that with mine because i also didnt want them crying themselves to sleep.

If she's crying whether you are holding her or not, then i'd be looking for a reason such as wind pain, wet/dirty nappy, uncomfortable, too hot/too cold, still hungry...

And just remember that there are no text book answers to these questions because every baby is different which is why something will work for one but not for the other so expect that there may be a bit of trial and error involved before you find the thing that works best for her.

good luck.

[Baby14]

Hi Pash, Every baby is different but my DS went through the same thing a couple of weeks ago at the same age, after talking to lots of people and doing some reading I started to put him to bed earlier in the morning. I now keep him up for only 1 and a half to 2 hours and then he goes back to bed. So he wakes up at around 5am for a feed then back to bed then he is up at 8am, has another feed, play and then back to bed between 9.30am & 10am. Mostly he will sleep for an hour an a half then he is up from 11.30am for another feed, play and back to bed between 1.30pm & 2pm, he generally gets back up around 3pm and then I try to go for a walk around 4.30pm so he will have a little snooze for half an hour then bath, lots of naked play time & massage then feed, story & bed by 6.30pm.

I didn't want to be a 'routine' mum but DS has really demanded it as he was absolutely miserable for about 4 weeks, he was ok at the start of the day but got whingy as the day wore on and by the evening he would scream while I tried to rock him, take him for a walk, feed him, sing to him in the rocking chair, nothing I tried worked as he was so overtired but by getting him to bed earlier during the day he is much, much happier

I'm not sure if this will work for you and don't get me wrong, I am not confined to the house or anything but as a rule I try to get him to sleep within an hour and half to 2 hours, so if I go out I take his wrap and wrap him and put him in his stroller or he sleeps in my arms.

I hope this might help a little as I know I was at my wits end and we now have a much happier bub...and mummy too

Sorry this is so long. Good luck

[Baby14]

Sorry...I also meant to add that we were having trouble where when I did get DS to sleep before, he would only sleep for 40mins and then be up but this seemed to fix itself when I wasn't keeping him up so long between sleeps..hope this helps. And I also hope that now I have written this I haven't 'jinxed' myself... LOL!

[Fleur]

I think the point of 'feed, play, sleep' is that they aren't feeding to sleep & so learn to settle themselves - in theory - it doesn't work for every baby though.

It definitely sounds like she could use more sleep through the day, DD2 is hopeless to try & settle when she's overtired & the window can be quite narrow - if you miss the tired signs, it makes it very difficult. Perhaps as MantaRay suggested, it might be worth trying to get her down a bit earlier for her first sleep?
Not too sure about 4mths, we didn't have much routine going then, but at 6 mths DD2 was up for about 2 hours in the morning before needing a sleep. Even now she only goes about 2 - 3 hours depending on how the night has been.

The other thing is bedtime routine - we were having much the same as you last thing at night, lots of tears no matter what we did & it was worse when she was very tired. We have found a nice routine that works for us, it allows her to know that it's bedtime & wind down a bit - we do dinner, bath, bottle & then massage & quiet play on our bed, she rolls & shuffles & gradually winds down & then gets sleepy enough to settle.
A variation for a 4mth old might be bath, bottle, cuddles / massage / rocking, and you can introduce other elements as they get older.

It's important to start it before they get too tired though otherwise it's all out the window. Starting when she's not too tired lets her go at her pace, without trying to keep up with the world & then just !sleep! ITMS.

Good luck hun, it's not easy - sleep problems are the pits! but you sound as though you'r doing great & I'm sure you'll get it sorted

[pash]

Hi everyone, thanks for all your respones.

I found that when I do feed-play-feed-sleep, the second feed doesn't make her fall asleep anymore and she just wants to hang on to my boob. And I spend my life sitting around holding her. It's like being back at the newborn stage! And I'm still feeding her at least every 3 hours cos her weight gain hasn't been great.

I did try getting her first nap in really early, and I think that helped. Have also established a regular pre-bed and pre-nap routine. I think that helps too. The pre-bed routine is bath, massage, story, curtains closed, wrap, feed, bed. The pre-nap routine is curtains closed, wrap, cuddle for a couple of mins, bed.

I didn't want to be a routine mum either and wanted to just go with the flow, but am finding that she seems to like getting to bed earlier, like 6:30, which makes it hard for DH to be home in time for the bath.

The biggest change though is that I'm not even trying to feed her to sleep anymore. That just wasn't working anymore, cos she finishes and still isn't asleep.

So I (skim) read a couple of books: No Cry Sleep Solution and Baby Whisperer. And I've been shh-patting her to sleep (Baby Whisperer). That feels awful and DD hates it. She basically cries until she's exhausted and sometimes that can take upto 2 hours. I have to keep reminding myself that that was how long she cried when we walk her to sleep too. But I feel like an awful mum cos she cries so much, so hard and so long. She's gone hoarse and coos & smiles less now. I don't think she's sleeping that much more either. It feels like controlled crying, except I'm holding her. Sometimes she only cries a few seconds, but she still cries to sleep. And now she starts crying sometimes when I pick her up and walk past the cot.

I'm so confused. It feels so wrong, and so far removed from the baby-wearing, baby-led hippy mum I intended to be. But I think I have to teach her how to self-soothe?

This method feels like doing such a poor job at settling her that she just has to learn how to settle herself. Shh-pat just doesn't measure up to boob in mouth for comfort factor. But I think I need to stick with it for at least a week to give it a chance? I just hope she's not scarred by all the crying.

Thanks again for all your suggestions. It really helped.