Printable View
Okay :dunno: I have a book of Greek Mythology and all the religious stories in that are labelled as myths. I do the same with Christian stories too. And as I said, I don't tell my children they are fables. But I will when the time comes for them to understand what is real and what is fantasy. I see believing in God the same as believing in Santa. I guess if it causes you upset to have stories dispelled I can see why that may become difficult.
Exactly what I would have said!! Its fun for a while for them and its magic and the land of make believe and for my kids I like them using their imaginations. Each to their own though. I was raised as a Christian and I have my beliefs and my children will also be given the option to believe what they feel is right for them but while they r children I like to have fun with them.:
I guess because i found out about Santa not being real very early but its never been about that for me. Its weird but christmas time there is just this smell in the air, maybe its the tree and the decorations that make that "smell" but its the only time of year that i get to sit down with my family and have a great day. We get so into it, i love making my family happy so we exchange presents and we laugh and joke then stuff our faces lol
So for christmas for my family will be the importance of family, we will have santa but he wont be the main person in it same goes for the easter bunny. the tooth fairy no i wont do that as i thought it was silly when i was a little girl.
:
:rofl: now you have!! I remember quite clearly the night I discovered the Easter Bunny wasn't real and I remember being so utterly devastated because Mum and Dad lied to us. We always asked them if they was real and they always said yes ....... I am not permanently scarred but the "magic" of Santa and the Easter bunny was gone and I knew my parents would lie to me. It was the worst feeling.
Because my parents weren't very well off, Santa used to bring us our school supplies for the next year. I grew up thinking Santa really wanted me to go to school and learn lol.
DH and I aren't sure what we'll do yet with regards to Santa. I guess we'll see how it goes when DS is old enough to understand.
I'm athiest, but I want to bring DS up exposed to parts of many religions, so along with Christian holidays we'll discuss and acknowledge Jewish, Muslim, Hindu etc holidays as well.
i think this is always going to be a point of contention when you have people of differing religions/beliefs. to any that are not of a Christian based faith, the story of the Nativity is a story - they don't have any reason to have absolute faith that it happened. It's not about being offensive, it is about teaching their children their beliefs. I am Catholic, and will tell DD the story of Christ's birth - but i don't expect others to teach it as FACT when they don't believe it. And to be honest, i will teach it to her as the STORY of his birth - it is up to her to decide whether she believes it to be fact or not.:
i guess i am someone that needs proof - and there isn't anything substantial to support so much of the Christian belief system - i reserve the right to question it - and i will allow DD the same right. and i wouldn't be upset with an atheist or non-Christian explaining the Christian faith in way that states it is what Christians believe, not that it is fact. if they don't believe it to be fact, why should they state that it is? it is the same way i couldn't say that what Muslims (for example) believe is fact - because i don't know that it is - and i won't pretend that i do. i think the label of story/fable is still very much respecting the beliefs of others. given every religion believes THEIR God is the one TRUE God, there is always going to be people that believe that you are wrong - provided there is still respect, there shouldn't really be a drama. in the same way that someone believes Christian beliefs are wrong, i'm sure (ok, i KNOW) that Christians believe the beliefs of other religions are wrong.
as for Santa - yes, he exists here. to what degree, i don't know. My brothers children were not allowed the opportunity to believe in Santa and the magic of Christmas because their mothers family are very strict Catholics and only recognised the religious aspect of Christmas for a long time. I have told my SIL, and their children, that they are not to ruin Christmas for our daughter. we may tell her the truth early, we may focus on Santa - i'm not going to make a firm decision now and hold myself to that forever because i just don't know for sure. i don't think believing is a bad thing. i don't think helping children embrace the magic of Christmas is bad. but in the same way i will encourage DD to question anything else, if she wishes to question Santa/Father Christmas, so be it. Whether she believes or not is not going to change how we celebrate. i LOVE the childhood excitement that comes with decorating the tree, scoping out the street lights, decorating the house (lots and lots) - making special cards and messages to remind people we care, and spending a special day with family. yes, we will do presents - but i guess that's part of us wanting DD to have certain things, and it's as good a day as any for us to give them to her...
Have to say I agree with BG on the subject of teaching about other religions as myths - I want my DD to understand and respect that different people believe different things when it comes to God, and that it's ok that they do. But I'm not about to teach her that any one of them is fact when I personally don't believe that they are.
FWIW, I grew up in Christian household but now more strongly identify with pagan beliefs than anything else, whilst DD prefers Christianity. And in our house, that's completely ok. Quite different to the way I grew up, with my father informing me at about 8 years old that Santa was of the devil and I shouldn't believe in him whereas in Mum's house Santa continued until my younger sister was about 10, with us older kids being roped in to bite pieces out of carrots as "reindeer" and so on. I can tell you, I preferred Christmas at Mum's where it was fun and didn't involve 3 separate boring church services for the day :)
Have to say I agree with BG aswell. I think in a nutshell we have to respect and appreciate the differences that exist religiously/culturally within this fabulous country of ours, but on a personal level I see Santa as I see Cinderella and the tooth fairy: a wee bit of childhood fantasy and fun, in a world that will be all too serious and real for all our little people before we know it (or like it)...
I stand corrected :rofl::
I personally don't see it as a lie. For us, Santa IS real and he embodies the spirit of Christmas, and that spirit lives inside all of us. If you believe in Santa, he is real.:
For whoever said "how embarrassing" for the teens that still believed in Santa, gosh, how embarrassed must I be?! :P
Moderator Message ยป
Let's talk about the fat man, not the man upstairs
Thanks,
i so agree with this:
Santa/Father Christmas exists within the parents who create that magic for their children. When someone passes away, so many people say that they continue to live on in the heart and memories of those who cared - Saint Nicholas does too. He did what parents do - he secretly gave presents to those who, from memory, left shoes out for him to leave a coin in. He was made a Saint by Christians. yes, commercialism has taken over, and the meaning behind Saint Nicholas has been mostly lost - but he DID exist. He is not a lie. it is up to each individual how they interpret and teach that.
KL - we can be embarrassed together hun - i believe in the magic of Santa too!
FWIW - our place is a Christmas wonderland for WEEKS - we have traditional Christian (Nativity) decorations, including childrens books to read to DD. we have the typical commercial Santa decorations - and we have some Saint Nicholas inspired decorations. I want DD to be exposed to all of it and to make up her own mind! and even if she decides not to believe at some point, i'll still make Christmas magical - because that's what WE want to do!
we're a no santa family. I am very black and white about truth, and I see santa, easter bunny, toothfairy etc as a lie. I don't see them as "harmful" but in my eyes, lies are lies, and I don't want to lie to J.
incidentally, we also don't have a christmas tree because it doesn't have any real value or meaning for DH and me personally - but when J is older, if he wants a tree, we will get one. we're not anti christmas trees, DH and I just don't see the need for them.
for us, and our focus is on Jesus' birth. for people that don't share those beliefs (and plenty of those that do!) we find the focus is on family and friends, and being with loved ones. I don't see the need for santa and trees and candycanes and singing snowmen ...
we however teach him about Saint Nicholas, and why he is held is esteem, and remembered by the "Santa Claus" rigmarole these days, and why that tradition has been passed on for so many generations and is important to many people.
I hear what some of you are saying about him being the embodiment of the christmas spirit and thereby not a lie, but I disagree. I'm not comfortable with it for me and my family, so we do not plan on having it.
he will get presents! But he will know they're from mummy and daddy.
we have several friends who view it the same way as us, we have more who disagree.
but it isn't something I've had any arguments about. I think there's good arguments both for and against, and it's something which is (in my opinion) easy to accept and understand the different points of view.
and I refuse to feel like the bad guy because I choose not to lie to my son by people who are pro-santa, and do not respect my decisions.
that is all :thumbsup:
Definitely a Santa household here. I think make believe is important to a child's imagination development. Faeries don't exist either and yet me and my children still go on pixie and fairy hunts in the garden. I don't think it's lying to them, it's creating a little of beauty and magic in a world that is so full of chaos. Santa falls in the same realm as that. Right now my kids solely believe in santa and fairies an the rest, one day they will be old enough to determine the difference between what they think is real and make believe. I don't see that as lying to them. And then when they are old enough I will tell them the real story of st Nicholas and what it was before it was so commercialized. St Nicholas was a great man and when he died people started giving gifts in his name and that's where Santa clause came about. I'll teach them how the story of Santa clause is about the spirit of Christmas and how that is the true magic. But for now I'll let them believe.
I don't see why it has to be one way or the other. Why can't you have the games but not make a big deal like it is actually real? That is what gets me. If your kids ask you if fairies are real do you say yes? You don't have to shove it in their face that it isn't real but when they ask you point blank what will you say?
it's going to depend on her age and the context of the conversation!:
it's up to each family to decide what they want to do - and a bit harsh to make out like it's a bad thing! maybe i'm reading the tone of that comment the wrong way, but it comes cross very judgmental - like parents that choose to encourage the belief with their children are doing harm to them!
is it really anyone elses problem? is it really so hard not to put your beliefs on someone else? if someone says "we believe in santa and we want to maintain that" - is it so hard to just not mention it? in the same way TFB is peeved that people knowingly say stuff to Liebs about Santa when they don't believe, why is it so hard for people to just avoid the conversation of santa if you're a non-believer and someone else DOES want their kids to believe?
society, as a whole, encourages kids to believe in the make believe. fairies, cartoon characters, puppets. i don't see anyone saying everyone should be saying to their three year old that Dorothy isn't real, it's just a woman in a costume! or that the puppet in hi five with the dread locks (yeah, i'm a huge fan, can't you tell lol) is nothing more than a bit of fabric with a hand inside it. yes, kids will learn the harsh truth eventually, but it's up to their parents to decide when they learn - and if they want to make a MASSIVE deal of perpetuating the "lie" and encouraging that magic in their child's life, who else does it hurt? really?
We aren't religious in any way, shape or form nor do we agree with the mass-commercialisation and over consumerist push around these sorts of "holidays" like Christmas and Easter but we do have Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny & the tooth fairy at our place. Christmas is special to us for many different reasons and is a time to spend with family and friends.
There is so little magic in the world these days that a little bit of joy goes such a long way and seeing it in the children's eyes is all worth it IMO. I didn't see any of my friends be too concerned when they discovered that these weren't real - obviously some children are but I think that has more to do with the parents and how they deal with it. :dunno:
I used to feel uncomfortable with the lie of Santa and really haven't told DD too much. But she has picked up some stuff from childcare so I'm happy to go along with that without making a huge song and dance. I will most likely carry on down this path until the girls start questioning it and then say "some people think ..."
I was raised Christian, have been agnostic for years and most closely identify with Buddhism. As such, I intend teaching DDs a bit about all religions prefacing it with "some people think". I'm comfortable talking to DDs about Jesus because there is enough historical evidence to show he existed (whether he was the son of God and whether there IS a God obviously is a little trickier) and I'll go down the path of, "at Christmas we celebrate the birth of a really good man called Jesus ..."
I respect your choice as a parent, but I find that there is enough beauty and magic in the world that I don't find the extras necessary :):
^^yeah that. My brother and his wife have a son 4 weeks younger than DS, and they have santa. we've talked about it, and discussed how we will manage that difference as our boys get older, and we have some boundaries and strategies in place so we are both respecting each others' parenting choices - so they won't be contradicting us, but we won't be doing things which might burst the bubble for their DS.:
It's very important for the four of us parents to respect and support each other. It's not a matter of "you're a liar!" -v- "you're a killjoy!". Rather, it's two valid, thought ought, loving decisions for two boys.
and at the end of the day, kids have been brought up with and without santa for quite some time now, and there haven't been fatal outcomes, as far as I'm aware ;)
It was just a short post and not meant to be a big judgemental deal. Something I posted on my way out to work. I feel like most of this thread has been the other way. As if parents who are concerned about this want to remove all imagination and magic from the world. Bowing out of this discussion now.
Over here Christmas is starting to become a huge deal- commercialized to the max and in a country that is probably 90% buddhist its kinda weird. But its the only tradition I have stuck to. I have told the boys the story of St Nick and how he would give to the poor children toys he made, and that santa is away for us to remember him, but that Santa isnt really real.
The boys still love to watch all the christmas movies etc.
They think its fun to leave a Santa sack out the night before christmas and hope they have been good enough to get something put in it. But they also know its us that leaves it and its always a small thing.
We dont think that Santa should get the glory of leaving the best presents!
This is our compremise to keep the magic but to keep it real. I loved christmas as a child but was heart broken to find out it was my mum. I felt betrayed and lied to and stupid because everybody else knew he wasnt real.
I think we just need to be mindful of other peoples parenting choices, whether that be about santa or other issues.
Nobody is doing it wrong. We just alll have our own special way for our children which is great.
My mother has still never admitted that Santa isn't real. And I still get a gift of him every year ROFL. He does seem to have the same hand writing as my mother tho ;)
We teach the children the real meaning of Xmas and will attend church. But I also like Santa as its someone to blame for all the gifts. I like the kids believing that they are being spoiled beyond what mum and dad would EVER do ;)
I don't have any memory from believing one year and not the next. I must admit I never answer 'is Santa real?' with yes I always say 'well do you think mum and dad could afford all those gifts?':
We are a family where Santa gets all the glory :)
No Santa here either. Glad to see some other families doing that too! For us as Christians, Christmas is about celebrating Jesus' birth and there are a whole heap of lovely traditions to help us do that. But Santa has the potential to overshadow the real meaning so we are steering clear.
On a side note, I was browsing in a big news agency's book section and they had at least 25 different books for kids about Santa but only 1 about the nativity story. That's what I mean by overshadowing!
As Christians, we have a little tradition where the "gift giving Wise man" (aka DH in a king costume) hands out our presents at Christmas time. He does a little Bible reading first and explains why we have presents.
I loved Christmas so ds will have Santa. I think anything that helps keep imagination and magic alive is great.
I agree this year wont really matter as he is so little but def as he grows up. Gives a reason to get them used to waiting and asking nicely for things I think. Worked for me as a kid anyway:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We most definitely do the Santa thing. Kids need some magic and to use their imaginations.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yep Santa over here too :)
We do Santa at our place. I remember the joy as a young child seeing this bag of presents 'appear' in the lounge room Christmas morning. Our family is Catholic so we still understood the religious side of things too.
I love seeing the joy on my daughters face when she sees a pile of presents all for her.....I wouldn't miss it for the world....
Glad someone bumped this thread - cheers, Bloom.
I am going to "kill Christmas" for all my sister's children, when she has them. She and my mother have worked hard on Liebs the last four years. I hadn't thought it had gone in. Not just talking about "Santa" and "Father Christmas", but DVDs and stories with him in too. (FWIW, I don't mind the story of St Nicholas, that's a nice story. I know Santa Claus is a variant on St Nick, but in my mind that name is more involved with consumerism. The real Father of Christmas is the Father of Jesus - our Heavenly Father. Not a man in a red coat and false beard!)
This last week, he has started to talk about "Farmer Christmas" visiting with presents. I could cry, I really could. That isn't what we believe in and that isn't what Christmas is about. But now it is what my son thinks is real. His thinking is that Farmer Christmas can visit our current house, but won't know when we move so won't visit. I'm a bit perplexed as Farmer Christmas has never visited our current house. Will have to have a big chat about it all should he bring it up when we're not out and about and in earshot of other small children. Because I actually respect other peoples' parenting plans and strategies, despite many of them not respecting mine (OK, so most don't bring it up again after I say we don't do that, but many question/interrogate me about it).
LOve Santa/Father christmas/ the old fat man in red.....even though he is kinda creepy.....I tell my kids that fairies are real too! I love magical stuff and Christmas is so much fun here!
I love that Portable north pole thing too! Where you put in your childs name etc and Santa talks to them :)
But if you dont believe in Santa thats fine its a choice you have made and if you are happy then everyone should be happy for you! :hug:
Perhaps Farmer Christmas can bring a basket of freshly picked vegetables, some free range eggs and a sack of cow manure????
Hmmm, I hope this isn't true. I get you're upset that your son now wants to believe in 'farmer' christmas (too cute!!) because sister and your mother didn't respect your parenting choices, but killing christmas for innocent children to get back at another adult is really mean :(:
I'd just do what N2L said ;) Good ol' Farmer Xmas :p
I agree. Maybe you need to be sterner with your family in telling them you dont like it?:
I would be tempted to tell Liebs that "farmer Christmas" is a figment of your mum and sister's imaginations, and he's not real but not to tell them that because they don't understand. And have a bit of a giggle about how silly they are. I really wish I had done that when everybody started telling my kids about Santa. Then they would have felt like they were in on a joke that everyone else was fooled by, whilst still enjoying the magic of Christmas without losing sight of why Christians celebrate at this time of year. Instead I have been bullied into Santa by everyone around me. DS1 almost doesn't believe now, and as soon as he asks me outright then I will tell him the truth.
FB, is it's possible it's come from day care/kindy as well as your family?? it may not be entirely your family at fault...
My kids will be brought up with the celebration of Yule (and all pagan holidays), just like I was.
As for Santa, they will know about him, just like they will know about the christian beliefs and Jewish beliefs (since they will be Jewish by birth, as I am)
Last year they did have a man in a suit at nursery - DS knew it was a man in a suit. No worries there. Didn't even ask his name. He was completely unphased by the Santa thing right up until the 27th/28th of December last year.
My mother especially, but also my sister (who thinks I'm cruel) go on and on about it. I'm sure it has been seeing the people in the outfits that partially triggered it (especially yesterday), but it was the Peppa Pig Christmas DVD and the awful Polar Express DVD that my mother put on endlessly whenever I left the room for DS last year that really cemented it. DS started talking about men coming down chimneys with presents that week. Then had nightmares about people coming down the chimney into his bedroom while he slept when we got back home.
It could be from school, sure. But why did DS leave it until he had been on the phone to my mother to bring it up with me this year? Especially with the "Farmer Christmas" thing, when I have never, ever used that name with him. Nursery did Santa. I will talk about St Nicholas and that people like to remember him this time of year with gifts and stockings.
FWIW, I think my mother and sister have "killed Christmas" for Liebs by forcing the whole Santa thing on us. Christmas is about Church nativities and Jesus and singing carols loudly. NOT Farmer Christmas. I know it's a hijacked festival and Jesus was really born months earlier - just means we get to sing carols for 4 months! So why can't I impose my Christmas, which is in my mind better, on other peoples' children when they impose their rubbishy Christmas on my children? And as for being sterner - I told them that we don't "do" Santa, Liebs doesn't get Santa gifts, we believe in Jesus not Santa: in front of Liebling they told me I was cruel and nasty to my son and they would do it for him (my mother attends Church too, so isn't a belief clash). In that case, I don't care to see them. "Oh grow up and get over yourself." Guess what - we don't see them Christmas day! They still don't care for my wishes and never have.
Fb :hug: I am really sorry your family don't respect your wishes :( As long as you tell L how you want to celebrate and that your family does it different then that is ok but "killing" others christmas is just becoming what they are and have done to you?