What do you think?

[Shanti]

I took my girls to the park the other day and DD1 (3yrs) was having a fantastic time playing with all the kids there, particularly a couple of boys of similar age to her. They were role playing as they ran through the equipment and playing silly games as kids this age do and DD1 was joining in.
One of the boys was a little younger than my DD so probably about 2.5yrs at a guess and he was making loud growling sounds as he ran around having fun. I thought nothing of this at all as I watched DD2 trying to climb the stairs. A playground is always a noisy place when there are a few kids and parents there and the atmosphere was good!

The mother of this little boy was sitting only a few metres away chatting to another mum when she started noticing her son playing loudly. She walked over to him, called out his name and said "hey J, stop it you're being silly" and followed him but he ran away from her. I so desperately wanted to say to her "oh I think he's just joining in with the game the kids are all playing and he's pretending to be a dinosaur or something perhaps" but I kept my mouth shut because I didn't want the Mum to get cranky at me for 'getting involved' as you hear some Mum's can be cranky if you say something! (I have heard stories on BB etc!). So I just watched her as she took her son by the arm and walked him away from the playground and said "stop being silly ok" as though he had done something really bad. But he was JUST being a normal two year old, playing, being wild and excitable...... if you can't do it at an outdoor playground with other kids, then when on earth can you????????!!

I love how my daughter is loud and crazy at places like a playground, she has so much energy that has to be expelled so I let her.... I never worry if she's being too loud or whatever! Not in a playground of all places????? Obviously a restaurant, library etc those sorts of places yes you have to control your children and tell them to be quiet etc.... but this is different. At home indoors I ask her to tone it down as she can get really loud and it hurts my ears but outdoors in a playground who cares!!

What do you think? Do you let your kids let themselves loose at a playground where they are having fun being KIDS? And I don't mean they are harming other kids or anything but generally running around having a great time being loud...... what's wrong with it?? I think it's vital to childhood!!!!! As it is kids have such a limited childhood these days... it's getting shorter!!!

I am sorry if it comes across like I am judging this woman for her parenting but it made me feel sad for her son.

[Doing my best]

Maybe she knew that when her son gets to that stage it triggers off a different behaviour..

I know with both mine, what seems an innocent running and squealing is about to turn into extreme meltdown mode for no other reason than they have just psuhed themselves that little too far. Only now is my DH and my Dad who also live with us are starting to understand the particular moment.. They kept telling me I was over-reacting, until a few times of late, I let them take control and meltdown mode kicked in..

I am all for children running around and making a noise in a playground, but also know the limits of my kids and I could be the mother you descibed above. (not meaning I take offence, but giving a scenario that it could've been)..

[Catastrophic]

Do you let your kids let themselves loose at a playground where they are having fun being KIDS?

I let my kids run around and have fun but i also pull the reigns if they get to that over excited mark. I want them to enjoy the playground and I want the other kids in the play ground to enjoy it too ;-) so if they get too excited which doesn't happen very often at all, I will just to get them and play on the swing or help them over the monkey bars, so they are still playing and I am not telling them to stop anything i just redirect their energy into something else :P

[Shanti]

yeah i know what you mean and I agree. You have to pull the reigns in when they are getting out of control but in this case, this little boy was in his own make believe world and she burst his bubble!! I think it's about being present with your kids, even while trying to talk to another mum, and watching them in their world and recognising when it's getting too much or whatever. In this case, this little boy wasn't hurting or scaring anyone, just running around having fun. I felt bad for him I truly did.
Perhaps his Mum was concerned he would hurt my little 11mth old which I appreciated at the time too but I wasn't worried as I was close to her like any parent with an 11mo should be

I know this sounds like I am judging her and I probably am but that's how I felt. And yes this thread is not about anyone here so please do not come in here and take offence, it's just a discussion about it all. Noone is a perfect parent, I'm not either!

[Boo Boo]

All I can say is maybe she knew something you didn't, itms....I don't know. But no, I personally let my kids go crazy, but if I knew a particular action led to something else then I would reign it in iykwim. I do feel sorry for him if he was just playing his own make-believe game and your right if you can't do it at a playground then when can you do it?

[misty]

If my kids are getting too loud or too much in other kids face, then 'yes' I pull them up. This is for a couple of reasons; other kids and mums can get intimidated by loud and seemingly agressive behaviour (even if they aren't actually agressive, but just being loud noisy normal kids); Sometimes it is a precursor to other behaviour, and I am stopping it before it becomes an issue; Sometimes they have been warned prior to going somewhere (yes, even a play area) that they must not do a certain behaviour, and they are; It is just common curtesy that everyone (even little kids) need to learn to share a space and to be aware of others personal space or their own noise levels.

I think kids need to learn that they can still have fun but they need to behave the rules (MY rules for my kids). I have ALOT of rules. I need ALOT of rules, because when you have four kids 6 and under, they need to know what the boundaries are, otherwise they feed off each other and progressively get worse. I pull them up right at the begining (even if it does seem a non issue to others), because then they don't escalate, they don't end up in 'real' trouble (and trust me there is a BIG difference), and we all stay happy.

Personally, I don't like it when I see kids in playareas being overly loud and 'in your face' to my kids, and their parents just sitting back and letting it continue. I know my kids don't appreciate it (even if the other kid is just trying to join in) and I think that even in play kids need to learn to socialise in an acceptable manner, and be aware of how they might be impacting others. I have been in situations where I have had to ask a kid to please stop their behaviour near my kids because their parents saw nothing wrong with it (and my kids have tried repeatedly to move away or tell them not to do it).

Also, I LOATH it when people tell me "It's {the behaviour} is alright" or "Don't worry about it their fine" when I am pulling my kid up on a behaviour, because although you might think it is fine for your kids, I know my kids and I have a certain level of expectation of their behaviour, and it is no-ones place (particularly when they don't know my kid) to say that they are allowed to act in a manner that I have just been telling them that it is not.

My kids still have fun, they still have imagination; but they also know how to express themselves in an appropriate manner that is respectful to others, sometimes I just need to remind them of what is respectful. If I hold them to a higher standard them others, I don't think that is a bad thing.

[Doing my best]

I also wanted to say that you may well be right and the mother wasn't letting him be a kid and have fun in a park.. And yes I too would feel bad for him.

And to answer you other question, yep kids should be allowed to run around and be noisy. But I agree with misty when she said they need to learn social acceptance.. Sometimes kids will want to join in and bd accepted, and other times acceptance won 't be so easy..

[Shanti]

And Luluhb like you said, I'm the same, I let my kids take some risks in the playground and climb that ladder if they want to, even if it means there is the chance of a broken limb, I stay close by just incase but I don't say "no don't climb up there you WILL fall" because that doesn't help the child at all. I see parents in playgrounds all the time saying this to their kids, they are scared of them hurting themselves or falling down or whatever, but i think it's so important to allow kids to do these sort of things (within reasonably safe boundaries) and to be nearby just incase but to allow them to challenge themselves without us putting all this fear on them!
but that's another thread LOL

[misty]

I might mention, that I am not by any means a cotton wool mother.
I beleive in letting kids sort things out themselves, I am usually one of those mums people complain about who goes to a playarea, and then lets my kids play without paying attention to them (I will read, or chat or be on my iphone). But when they do something that rings an alarm bell for me (like my DS 'roaring' becuase I know where that leads, even if it is a quiet roar), I pull them up quick smart. And If my kid ignores me, or fails to respond, or goes and does the same act again, then they may actualy end up in trouble, because that is not acceptable at all. Then it is not just about the 'roar' (which may possibly escalate) but it is about my authority, and my kids disregard for it.

[LuluHB]

I pull them up quick smart. And If my kid ignores me, or fails to respond, or goes and does the same act again, then they may actualy end up in trouble, because that is not acceptable at all. Then it is not just about the 'roar' (which may possibly escalate) but it is about my authority, and my kids disregard for it.

I agree with you on this 100% Misty. Whether or not my child listens to me in the playground is not negotiable for me. I don't care how much fun my girls are having, if I think something is going too far towards danger then they have to listen to me, and they have to listen first time so I wouldn't hesitate to pull them up on something like that, and go home if they continued to not do as they were asked.

[Shanti]

I might mention, that I am not by any means a cotton wool mother.
I beleive in letting kids sort things out themselves, I am usually one of those mums people complain about who goes to a playarea, and then lets my kids play without paying attention to them (I will read, or chat or be on my iphone). But when they do something that rings an alarm bell for me (like my DS 'roaring' becuase I know where that leads, even if it is a quiet roar), I pull them up quick smart. And If my kid ignores me, or fails to respond, or goes and does the same act again, then they may actualy end up in trouble, because that is not acceptable at all. Then it is not just about the 'roar' (which may possibly escalate) but it is about my authority, and my kids disregard for it.

I agree, same here!

[Jennifer13]

As long as my child is not in danger and is not putting anyone else in danger, I let her go. She will learn to manage herself physically and emotionally if she's given the freedom to explore her world without my interference.

I actually disagree that stopping a meltdown is important. How is a child to learn to control themselves emotionally if they don't ever explore all of their emotions? It isn't easy to watch them kick and scream, but as long as they aren't hurting themselves, then I think they can go for it. I certainly don't judge a parent who's watching a child losing it as being any less a parent - it's just your child going through the developmental stage of not being able to completely control their emotions. It would be the same as judging the parent whose little one can't climb to the top of the slide or trips over. They'll learn, at their own pace. Outdoors in a playground and at home, I don't see the need to control them physically or emotionally. Even a shopping centre, play centre, at a friends' house is also probably acceptable. At church, or sitting at a restaurant or cafe, no, same as not letting them bounce around physically. Those are places to learn to be quiet and not make everyone else uncomfortable.

So if anyone is worried about what someone else will say if their child has a meltdown, I say ignore everyone else.

(I should add, I also wouldn't stay if I thought my child was overtired, hungry, or just past being able to enjoy themselves and needed to go home. I'm talking about a meltdown because of frustration or feeling overwhelmed, not due to factors you can help them with.)

[Shanti]

Jennifer I totally agree!! Re: meltdowns.... they are all part of childhood and to be expected when you have young kids and you're out and about. I can't type much as I'm on my iPad but yes I agree with what you are saying.

It's not always fair to pull a child away from something just because you think they are about to have a meltdown, sometimes they are better left alone but the parent nearby to help them work it out. Offering a hug etc to them instead of ushering them to the car to go home.

[misty]

I actually disagree that stopping a meltdown is important.

It is when you have four young children, and one sets of the next. One meltdown with one child can mean an absolute impossibility of moving on from that point with any of them. I don't have the luxury of being able to induldge a temper tantrum, one meltdown can literally impact how the rest of the day goes. Especially if they think they are going to get away with behaving like that, then they try it again at other even less convienitent times and places.

How is a child to learn to control themselves emotionally if they don't ever explore all of their emotions?

Just because you may intervene and avoid a meltdown occaisionally doesn't mean they don't get to experience or explore their emotions?!?!? My children have enough meltdowns at home, why on earth wouldn't I want to avoid it when possible. Even when trying to avoid such, the odds of doing so aren't always in your favour. But to suggest that a parent attempting to avoid a 'meltdown' with their child might somehow be stunting their emotional development is a bit rich.

It isn't easy to watch them kick and scream, but as long as they aren't hurting themselves, then I think they can go for it.

Personally, I actually don't have any emotional issues with watching them scream and carry on - it would be much easier for me just to let them go on a meltdown, but who does that serve? They don't feel better because of it, they don't learn how to handle their emotions by having a meltdown, they don't learn to respect others, they don't manage to express what they are actually upset about. I don't see any way in which a child reaching meltdown point actually serves anybody.

I have no problem ignoring that behaviour until they have calmed down enough to talk to, as I know that when they calm down I can then talk with / deal with the issues leading up to that point - no point letting that get under your skin. BUT I do have other issues with them thinking it is an acceptable way of behaving or expressing themselves and so I will remove them from others, or whatever set them off - this may involve strapping them in the pram or into a carseat or putting them in a quiet spot away from others. After they calm down I will express to them my disappointment in that kind of behaviour and how they are to use their words to express their emotions, and not behave like that. I don't tolerate 'kicking' or lashing out physically at all - it is NOT an appropriate method of expressing emotion or frustration under ANY circumstances with my children.

I certainly don't judge a parent who's watching a child losing it as being any less a parent - it's just your child going through the developmental stage of not being able to completely control their emotions. It would be the same as judging the parent whose little one can't climb to the top of the slide or trips over. They'll learn, at their own pace.

I don't either. Kids have meltdowns. Even the best of them. I usually feel nothing but compassion for the parent. But I also wouldn't judge a parent who steps in early to avoid a meltdown.

It is our job as their parents to help guide them and teach them how to control those emotions in socially acceptable ways. My kids are very good at expressing their emotions, but if they do it in a manner that is not appropriate, is disrespectful of others, is disruptive of others, then no it is not OK. Yes, meltdowns happen, no I don't blame a young child for not always being able to control or reign in their emotions or behaviours, but yes, I will step in until they are at a point where they are able to control themselves.

Outdoors in a playground and at home, I don't see the need to control them physically or emotionally. Even a shopping centre, play centre, at a friends' house is also probably acceptable. At church, or sitting at a restaurant or cafe, no, same as not letting them bounce around physically. Those are places to learn to be quiet and not make everyone else uncomfortable.

Other kids using a playground, people in a shopping center etc, deserve to be able to enjoy it too. If my kid is acting in any manner (or is about to act in any manner) that will disrupt others use of public spaces, then it is my responsibilty as a parent to step in and reign my kids in. Kids thrive on consistency. If you let them behave one way, one time and then expect them to behave another way another time, it gets confusing and is not fair on the child. My kids have higher expectations of their behaviours in places in church and resturants, yes. But those expectations, whilst loosened, do not entirely disappear when in a play area. In my house, they also have similar, but even more relaxed expectations - but they do still need to be aware of others in the house and respectful of others needs for personal space (that is a nessecity as we have a family of six in a tiny 3 bedroom house).

So if anyone is worried about what someone else will say if their child has a meltdown, I say ignore everyone else.

I absolutely agree. It is my philosophy on everything in regards to parenting. I don't care what anyone thinks of the way I parent, I don't believe anyone should care about what others think in ther 'keyhole judgement' moments. I have friends who parent very differently to me, its a non-issue. I don't intervene in my kids having a meltdown because I am worried about what others think of my parenting; I intervene because I believe it is the best thing to do for my children, and because I feel that I have a civic responsibilty to ensure that myself and my kids don't imping on others rights to public and personal space.

(I should add, I also wouldn't stay if I thought my child was overtired, hungry, or just past being able to enjoy themselves and needed to go home. I'm talking about a meltdown because of frustration or feeling overwhelmed, not due to factors you can help them with.)

Little bit confused with this bit, because I believe that you can help them with all factors leading to a meltdown, I also think that you not be successful aot of the time. But in my experience my kids only ever reach meltdown point if there are other things going on such as hunger, tiredness, etc.


****I am not specifically having a go at you, I just disagree with what you have said and wanted to address each of the issues properly*****

[Heaven]

I actually agree with Jennifer here.

My kids are basically free to do and feel how they want. I have three basic rules- no hurting yourself, no hurting anybody else, and no damaging property. Other than that I want them to explore their world without constraints and feel how they want and express that however they feel they need to. And I feel like my job is to 'hold the space' for them. By that I mean, being a constant presence and helping them to feel contained/supported/safe, etc. Not really controlling and directing, but more supporting when they need help.

So for example, when they are starting to get out of control I wouldn't actually stop them, I would just check if they're ok (by asking, or maybe just moving closer and observing). I know my DD1 can get over excited sometimes when playing with other kids. She is just having lots of fun and enjoying playing with others but she gets so excited and overstimulated and I can tell when it's getting a bit much when I hear her yelling and screaming and being extra silly. Sometimes this does lead to a meltdown, when it all just gets too much and her emotions are overwhelming her. And then I step in and help her to calm down. And I believe by letting her get to that point and then helping her calm down I am giving her practice in calming herself and learning how to regulate her own emotions. I don't punish her for a tantrum/meltdown because in my view it's just that she's feeling an emotion that's too big for her and I need to help her with it. And I don't avoid it either, because it's ok with me for her to explore her emotions and her limits.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. And how I try to do it. Sometimes of course I fail, but this is what I aim for I hope that made sense.

[Arcadia]

I'm on the fence with the 'step in and stop a meltdown' scenario. My dd is not particularly active, but can be highly strung and she gets herself very worked up at times (which easily escalates). I don't see the point of letting her reach crisis point. I think it is important to help give her strategies to calm herself down so she doesn't get beyond reason. Why would I want her to have a bad time? Because that's what a meltdown generally means for her.

At the park I have never had to step in and redirect dd's behavior, because she is pretty happy to watch other kids, rather than bounce around etc, but I don't like it when a kid is being aggressive in her face. And if she was being aggssive to another kid I would step in.

I think parks are for the enjoyment of everyone, so if dd is acting in a way that compromises another child then yes, I will step in.

I think children should be free to express themselves and explore the limits of their emotions, but I also think I have a duty to help show dd how to manage these emotions too. Why let her work it out all by herself if I can help her? I help her sleep, eat, get dressed, overcome disappointment etc, and I think teaching a child how to calm themselves is important.

Yes there is a fine line between helping a child and controlling a child, but I think we can all balance that ourselves.

[Jennifer13]

Misty, by my last para I meant that if I have taken her into a park without having taken care of some of her physical needs (hungry, tired, etc) then I should do something about that and not just let her lose it.

Four kids in a tight space would be tricky! On that I cannot comment. But Shanti was talking about a one parent-one child scenario and that I think leaves a lot more flexibility.

[misty]

Honestly, I really wouldn't know about one on one parenting. I could speculate, but I really have no idea what it is like or if things might be different for my parenting values. I don't think so; but then, I thought alot of different things before I had kids as compared to afterwards.

None of my kids ever reach meltdown point unless they are overtired, hungry, sick or frustrated by an inability to communicate (particularly the 2yr old). They may get upset and cranky when they are none of those things, but they never reach melting point then. Maybe other kids are different? But in my experience that is true for most kids.

Although I do know a couple of kids (neices and nephews) who will have a meltdown / temper tantrum excessively, because they know their parents will give in to them if they keep up the pressure...