That's correct Astrid. She has a child now, but wrote her book when she was indeed childless and qualification-less!
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That's correct Astrid. She has a child now, but wrote her book when she was indeed childless and qualification-less!
I know that she wrote her books whilst childless ;) Just pointing out that she was no longer that way just in case she is up to her usual tricks and complains that we still refer to her as childless.
yep, fair point Astrid... and it's interesting to note that she has been quiet lately (since having a child) ... hehe probably lost in the mists of disillusionment... "it was meant to be so straightforward this baby-making business"... oh well... she can come back to BB for support... we'll try not to say "we told you so"!... true help doesn't always lie in telling somebody what to do... more in saying that they don't have to be perfect or do it another person's way! And maybe the best type of support is lending a compassionate ear! Tizzy and Gina just never seemed to "get" that... although I would celebrate it if they did :)
Hi Guys,
First post for me, I don't think I have ever posted on the net, but this forum hooked me in and I am compelled to give my opinion. Gina Ford is the way to go! I bought her book after my sister was given it by a successful friend. My sister started it at 6 weeks (when given it). She had immediate success and has a 5 month old contented little baby. I read it whilst pregnant and was sooooo glad I came across it. Her tireless info was all news to me, and without it i would have stumbled in the dark (in more ways then one).
As well as the routines she describes, all her other info on colic, breastfeeding, sleep associations, use of cots, colic, sleep cycles etc is invaluable. I cannot stress how much i have loved reading her info.
Now onto the routines...what a God send. I mean that, I am so thankful for this book. First of all, she doesn't start babies on a routine, except to say that newborns need to feed every three hours or less, 24 hours a day. This is exactly what the nurses say too. This is followed until baby makes the required weight gain and other health needs. My little one had a little jaundice, so if i hadn't woken her every 3 hours she would have slept and slept and become very dehydrated. I have no issue waking a sleeping baby for a feed, the other option is her waking hungry, crying for a feed - why would I want her to cry for food? The routines anticipate her feeding needs, hence a contented little baby! I can happily say my 1 month old has never cried for a feed, and is putting on perfect weight.
For me the other benefit of Ford's routines is due to my epilepsy which is triggered by exhaustion and dehydration. On Ford's routines I know exactaly when to get sleep, how much, and with the best length of time between feeds. Demand feeding lasting between 1.5 and 4 hours with no ability to predict the next feed would have me in hospital in a day! Considering how well Ford explains to mothers how to hydrate and eat well whilst breastfeeding, I have had no problems keeping hydrated either.
Incidentally, my sister said after 6 weeks of demand feeding the CLB routines were a life saver! In reply to previous posts....the book does not require a 50pound subscription, simply buy the $20 book. The website has direct contact with Ford's 'team' who offer advice which is what the subscription is for. Next, Ford being childless is as big an issue as my male Gyno never having given birth to a baby! I trusted him implicitly! Ford has spent 30 years living in with babies. I would hate to imply that parents who adopt don't know the stresses and emotions of parenthood having not given birth or experienced hormones! For the mum who had trouble with the routines due to a hungry baby, I would respectfully suggest one of the possibilities Ford suggests of low milk supply? Something she also addresses. With regards to not getting out of the house, on the contrary, I know to the minute when I can plan my outings! Regarding the comment that Ford?s advice interferes with breastfeeding, my experience is the opposite, she establishes breastfeeding and ensures that as baby can digest before the next feed (as opposed to on demand), colic doesn?t occur.
I agree that Ford's writing style can be clinical, however her advice isn't designed to be about all the wonderful developmental info about babies, like when they smile etc which makes baby reading nice. However, i find following the CLB that I am able to enjoy those wonderful moments as I have very little stress about all the other parts of parenthood. There are hundreds of other books and material to fill in those gaps.
The gaps I would suggest I missed, is info about how from two weeks babies require more soothing. I found this transition from week 2 to 3 quite pronounced and was a little lost for a day or so. We ended up going with a dummy and 10 mins or so of holding before bed which has worked no problem. Ari is quite a sucky baby, so the dummy is good, although it has not been a problem for her waking mid sleep cycle, she puts herself back to sleep, it just helps her wind down. I have called the Maternal Health line a couple of times too, they are fantastic for help and support on any topic. I have found they have affirmed what we are doing as best for baby every time.
So if you are still reading this far down (!) I guess I would wrap up with saying that I am happily and successfully following CLB, passed on from my sister, passed on from her friend and I?m not sure how far back the chain of recommendations goes ? my guess is it?s far. I will be buying a copy for my pregnant best friend and anyone else I can.
At the very least read it and take her info from other topics if you aren?t interested in the routines. If you?re unsure of routines, I would say try them and see how you go. I would be surprised to hear from people who tried it, (and applied her problem solving strategies if needed eg. increasing milk supply etc) and didn?t find it the least bit helpful even as a framework/guideline for feeding and sleeping. I have no qualms about her credentials ? the proof is in the pudding. (Incidentally, I am posting at 4am as my little one is now sleeping from 11pm till 5am and later, but I still wake up! With CLB, husband does the 10.30pm feed, so I can go to sleep from 7pm if needed!)
Good luck!
I didn't read it and TBH, after leaving the hospital with a strict routine recommended to me because of BF problems (attach every 3 hours, then express, then feed EBM which often took up to 2.5 hours leaving me with 30 mins before the next BF attempt) AND with instructions from the physio to ice my pelvis every 3 hours, do exercises twice at day etc. etc. I could NOT have handled any more clock-watching.
But I am finding the different perspectives very interesting.
I guess what I liked about NOT having a strict routine (after we got over the first couple of weeks and could feed on demand) is that it tuned me into DD's needs. I found it quite easy to predict when she needed and would sleep based on her physical signs. By contrast, I found that some friends who were following a routine would not pay attention to their baby's signs and try to put a baby to bed who just wasn't tired and then get frustrated when they didn't sleep. Then they got panicky if the baby didn't sleep when they were "supposed" to as that meant the routine for the rest of the day was out of whack.
So I guess I'm interested in how the sleep thing works and I'm interested in hearing from people who found that it did work.
As others have said, it does sound very appealing in theory but I'm not sure it would have worked for me.
I have found that in the first week she was always tired, so she went straight down as soon as she was swaddled. Week 2 she started staying awake for short times after her feed (which CLB encourages to help distinguish between night and day as well as development) so we started a 'wind down' routine. By week 3 she took longer to go down for each sleep during the day, but she was also giving off tired cues around the time she was due to go down (making fists, yawns etc). Ford states in CLB that she has tried many routines over her career and the CLB ones time in with babies natural sleep cycles, so you may find they match up quite well with other babies who manage to establish good routines (roughly CLB says wake/feed/play 7am, nap 9am, wake/feed/play 10am, long lunch nap 11.30am, wake/feed/nap 2pm, nap 4pm, wake/feed/bath/feed 5pm, sleep 7pm, wake/feed 10.30pm, sleep 11ish pm, sleepy feed sometime between 2am and 5am depending then sleep till 7am).
I guess it depends on what you're after, one of the biggest benefits is that this routine ensures babies get most of their nutritional needs during the day, meaning night feeds can be happily dropped. For me this is crucial as I need to closly monitor my energy levels as well as the fact I'll be going back to work after 14 weeks. My husband will be taking over then. Also, one of my other sisters has a 3yo and 6month old and has done demand feeding, not being able to establish any routine, not being able to drop night feeds, try to start day care and get to work. Just watching her has been exhausting enough - I could never live it! She's a wonderful dedicated mum and does everything for the boys, but not enough for herself!
I’ve read the book and your post and as you’ve been successful with Gina Ford’s routine I was hoping you could answer a couple of questions. When do I start Week 1 routine (when my milk comes in, when I get home from the hospital or from day 1)? How many mls of expressed milk does my husband give at the 10pm feed? In the night feeds how long do I give on each breast?
Hi Munaz,
We started from day one, but not the actual Week 1 routine. CLB says to start with feed every three hours with a four hour from 10 pm. If the baby has a formula feed at the 10pm with your husband there's a very good chance of him/her sleeping the four hours, as they don't digest formula as quickly as breast milk. Then after the baby is well in this and has regained birth weight you can try to stretch them towards the Week 1 routine (page 114). I think we started with 100ml at first for the 10pm feed, she didn't always finish if she fell asleep. There is a chart on page 63 which gives you a guide to how much each feed should have, I followed that at first. I think it's crucial to give them a bottle within the first two weeks, all of my friends and sisters who tried a bottle after 3 or 4 weeks could never get them on a bottle and breast fed through necessity until about 6-8 months even though they wanted to stop earlier and had to go back to work. One of my friends is lucky to have creche in at her work and still has to go down at lunch to feed her daughter.
I remember (she's 8.5 months now - seems a lifetime ago now!) that she started by only being able to have on side at each feed, probably for a few weeks, then eventually she was able to take both sides as she got stronger. You have to make sure you remember what side was last fed on. I kept a little note book and just wrote something like '7am. Left, 40 mins', sometimes you're so tired or drained from feeding you forget, so I found the diary helped to track sleep, vomit, crying etc.
I always tried to keep the 3am feed small (1 side, 20 mins if possible) so she could be weaned easier. After a month I started giving as much as possible in the 10/10:30pm feed then weaning the 3am with cuddles and dummy.
Anyway, she is 8.5 months and still follows the routines perfectly. She goes to daycare 2 days a week and follows it perfectly there too. My whole Mother's Group coincidently followed routines too (mostly Tizzie Hall, which is similar) and their babies, and one of my sister's baby all followed and have all been easy wonderful babies!
Good luck.
I think this book is great ....for starting fires, propping up wonky washing machines, and garden compost. For parenting tips, I wouldn't recommend it.
Munaz, there are definitely people who have "success", or their definition of it, with the routines in the book. However, I can assure you there are an awful lot of others out there who have destroyed their breastfeeding relationship as a result of unrealistic and un-natural routines. A newborn baby needs to feed 8 - 12 times in 24 hours, and this is usually not evenly spaced. Most babies "cluster feed", which is a lot of feeds close together, and there is a developmental need for them to do so. Also, the idea of expressing for the dad to give a bottle is not all it's cracked up to be. Mums will wake anyway needing to feed as they are full - and this is how nature intended it. Mum and bub both have a physiological need to be close and feed often. I have read the book, so I know that she suggests expressing to have "stock" for the "fussy periods", however again, this is not how it's supposed to work. Babies feed more often during development growth spurts as they need not just the milk, but the comfort, and the mum needs her supply stimulated to meet the new requirements.
I also have concerns over the term "success". To me, success is not sleeping through the night by a certain age, or the ability to get on with my life more easily while I have a newborn. To me, success is raising a physically and emotionally healthy child, who knows that his needs for food, comfort etc are being met so that he can grow into a well adjusted and independent child and adult.
I have read pretty much every baby book on the planet and even the best of them is no substitute for your own instinct as a mum.
Bravo :clap: xx:
I also have concerns over the term "success". To me, success is not sleeping through the night by a certain age, or the ability to get on with my life more easily while I have a newborn. To me, success is raising a physically and emotionally healthy child, who knows that his needs for food, comfort etc are being met so that he can grow into a well adjusted and independent child and adult.
my baby is also wonderful, perfect the way she is, not raised through rigorous routines. starting babies on routines from day one is rediculous.
babies need food, small amount and often for brain development
I can remember the agony of trying to follow a routine which said to feed every 3 hours from birth with my first. I used to sit in tears rocking my screaming baby whilst watching the clock. Eventually someone (my MCHN I think) said it was ok to feed him whenever I liked and he was onto feeding every 1.5 hours. He fed great, slept great, was happy and I stopped feeling like I was torturing him.
I have real issues with routines which stress the importance of a mother knowing what will happen next, knowing when she must (or must not feed), knowing what her baby should be doing. Not only do they contribute to the message that a baby must fit in with our lives (when in fact the baby has needs and did not ask to be born, so surely we must fit in with them), but they leave the door wide open for a mother to feel inadequate when her baby does not behave as the book suggests.
A suggested routine for a parent who is struggling and asking for help is one thing, but a recommended routine to a parent who has not even met their child yet seems insane to me.
Just my 2c worth.
i also want to know: who's contented here??? certainly not the baby!
contented means satisfied, i doubt a month old weaned baby is satisfied!
or is this book is about the parents being 'contented'?
Had to spread the love Olive but :clap: x
Look, I've used CLB with both my kids.
One thing that is ALWAYS overlooked in these books is that Gina says if you think your baby is hungry you feed it regardless of the time and what her routine says. She does structure the feeds in terms of making sure that each breastfeed is a decent one, but also says that if your baby is hungry earlier than that, start the feed early.
I had a very successful bfing journey with DS (20 months). Not with DD but that was nothing to do with routines, there were other issues there.
Gina says herself that she has deliberately worded her books to sound very strict so people don't monkey about with the times and then whinge that it doesn't work. You have to look past the tone of the book to the actual content which I think is the reason she gets a lot of bad press.
As for who is contented - I think she makes it perfectly plain that the baby and mother is her priority.
Hi Ladies,
Each to their own, of course. I was speaking from my own experience, my sister's and my close friends, probably about 12 babies in total either on CLB or Tizzie Hall. I wouldn't of course suggest anyone else should feel pressured into any parenting style.
Can I stress a point that I made many months ago, my sister and I have epilepsy which is triggered by dehydration and sleep deprivation, two almost unavoidable guarantees of demand feeding. My sister had her son 6 weeks before I had my daughter, and she almost immediately had to stop feeding as she immediately had seizures for the first time in years. Her biggest regret was not reading CLB before birth. Four weeks later after several seizures purely from sleep devrivation and the stress of an unhappy baby she was given CLB. Baby and mother were happy and heatlhy from two days later. I read the book just in time and feel blessed that I was able to enjoy feeding for many months up until I had to go back to work, the other reason a contented baby was important.
I'll presume the previous posts were well meaning and not take offence, with that presumtion I'm sure the posters are glad to know that my baby, and nephew etc are all happy, healthy and scarily boarderline perfect babies. My little 8 month old chubs just started crawling today, claps, laughs, cuddles and kisses all day long, even with four teeth poking through. I can confidently say all her needs are met.
I don't believe Gina Ford or Tizzie Hall place any pressure on readers. On the contrary, I felt pressured by nurses to demand feed, although they were always wrapped to see my daughter fed and slept in the initial 3 hourly intervals Ford suggests.
My best friend delivered 3 weeks early a month ago, and like all other early babies and twins, the hospital put her son on a strict 3 hourly feeding schedule to ensure all feeding and sleeping needs were met, with as much contact as possible with mum for emotional needs, although to mum's difficulty, baby couldn't be in the room with her. There is no need to criticise the 3 hourly start, as it is a much proven and utilised method for special needs babies.
I make no criticism of other methods an no apology for following CLB with success. Success in my mind is defined by having a contented little baby. My own personal needs are like most mothers, met as a last priority.
If demand works for you, that's great. If you're looking for other ideas, reading a varity of other ideas wont hurt, and if you're interested in a proven method I would recommend CLB or Hall. If you're not interested, no worries.
I appreciate what you are saying, and I would not like to criticise another mother for a technique that worked for her. However if I could just address the above point in relation to twins. My twins were demand fed from birth, and at no point was I advised a 3 hour feeding schedule. Knowing my twins as I do, anything less that 2 hourly feeds (yes day and night) would have upset them and me tremendously. Twins are just 2 babies, and not a special sort of child. All children are different and must be treated as such, hence why I dislike structured routines. I much prefer guildlines and suggestions that let mothers find their own way.:
Love to you all, however you parent your child
T
xx