I think I might sign out of this thread for now...it seems I might be upsetting too many people! Thanks for all the posts and to those who've been helped by Dream Baby Guide, that's great.
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I think I might sign out of this thread for now...it seems I might be upsetting too many people! Thanks for all the posts and to those who've been helped by Dream Baby Guide, that's great.
Hi all
I just happened across Clarie's blog a few days ago when I was searching for information about the risks of baby going over full term - ironically I read Grace's story on your blog, and also some posts by Kelly, so I can be sure that everyone is legit!! ;):
I'm expecting my first bub any day now. MIL gave me "Dream Baby" a few months ago and once I got sick of reading pregnancy books I started wading through the 750 page tome. It was fascinating reading I must say.
I think her methods make a HUGE amount of common sense, and she has so many rave reviews. For me reading it pre-bub, the 'sleep training' part of it is a minor element, hundreds of pages of the book are designed to develop such great communication with bub that you don't need to resort to any training, crying or otherwise. I LOVE the communication recommendations, and the 'respect' element.
I have done buckets of reading think it is very much the 'middle ground' between the parenting extremes (and I don't judge either 'extreme', only note that there are extremes of the spectrum!).
It is worth noting that Sheyne does not recommend any kind of routine management before bub is 6 months of age. But I'm really excited about being able to implement the techniques from an early age with my new bub to be and establishing the communication flow to help bub make relaxed transitions through the day. Role play with a teddy is a fab idea to in order to get bub comfortable with what's happening.
One issue that I may have is that I am very keen to go the baby led solids route. Although Sheyne does not address this directly I would imagine that that is not something she'd be keen on. No, I reflect on this and realise I'm wrong, it's not that she wouldn't be keen on it. She would say - firstly, if it works for you and bub then that is fine and don't change a thing; secondly, if it's not working for you then maybe you should look at changing it, and here's how you do it - communication, position, role play etc.
Yep I highly recommend the book, it is loooong and repetitive but just writing this post has made me realise that the theories have actually sunk in and can be used in all sorts of situations! Hopefully I will still be a fan in another 12 months time :P
Cheers
out of curiosity, how does the book help you distinguish the different types of cries? to an untrained person even just listening, you might think the cries mean the same thing. as a new mother, at first they all sounded the same and then slowly I learnt what they meant.
but just wanted to know how the book tells you what is what?
Maybe somebody else can answer that, I didn't dwell on that section as I hope not to need it! But she is talking about bubs over 6 months old I think it requires having gotten to know your babies sounds and cries over time.
The main thing that I noted is that she's talking about leaving them cry for only a few minutes in any event, and coming in immediately if they are in way distressed. If you don't know your babies cries well enough then her philosophy would be, I think, assume they are distressed and do not leave them to CIO.
Hi Heaven,
I completely agree that the need for company is a genuine emotional need. That's why I think it's important to help guide your child toward feeling safe, happy and comfortable in their own space (when it's time for the transition, obviously). As long as they feel comfortable and safe, they won't feel that need for company through the night.
I'm not applying my ideas to anyone else here- just saying that this is what we experienced with Sophie. Before, when we tried to put her in her cot, she didn't understand why she had to be there when previously she'd been able to go to sleep snuggled up to mum. She woke up multiple times through the night needing company because that was the only way she knew how to go to sleep.
Our whole strategy (which took parts not only from the Dream Baby Guide but also from the No-Cry Sleep Solution and Dr. Sears) was to get her playing happily in her cot during the day and in the evening in the hope that she would start to see it as a safe and happy place. We respond to her as soon as she cried at night in the aim of helping her see that we're still right there when she needs us, even if she can't see us. And we still sit with her and rub her back every sleep time until she drifts off, because we feel it's a nice way to help her fall asleep feeling loved. We don't have any tears at all- she actually asks to be put in her cot now, and when we tell her it's time for bed she literally runs to her room and throws herself on the couch for her story-time. I never imagined she could love bedtime, but she does. And she now no longer wakes up through the night at all because she has indeed learned that she doesn't need company- not because we've deprived her of that company, but because we've given her alternative positive options.
Claire
Prama,
The book describes the types of cries in great detail that actually makes sense- for example, "call out" crying is where they shout out, stop, shout out, stop- it's probably the main one I hear my DD do if she wakes up early in the night. The pause is where she's listening to see if anyone is coming.
The thing is, I tend to go in to her no matter what type of cry she's doing. I guess I'm still teaching her to rely on me in a way, but I personally don't believe in letting her work through it like that all on her own. If she can work through it with me to help her, then apply it herself next time, I think that's better. That's what's been happening for us so far. Occasionally she'll wake at about four am, do the calling out cry for three or four minutes, then go straight back to sleep. She's not even remotely distressed when she's doing it- you can hear how sleepy she is, and she's just checking to see if anyone might be around to help her go back to sleep. But she doesn't need help anymore.
Lordy, I'm becoming a one-woman posting machine <g>.
I just wanted to say, Ali- don't panic about going over your due date. I was always told that more than 50% of babies are born after their due date, so it's not uncommon. What happened to us *is* uncommon, though. If I could go back in time, there are two things I would want to know about:
1. Hiccups. Sophie had long bouts of hiccups, all the time. Hiccups are completely normal for babies in pregnancy, but extended bouts (more than 20 minutes) more than 5 times a day can be an indicator of fetal distress.
2. Fetal movement/ kick counts. My doctor told me not to worry about doing fetal kick counts because DD was so active. But if I had been doing them, I would have known much earlier that there was a problem. We estimate she had stopped moving about 12 hours before she was born- things would have been much different if I'd caught it earlier. It would be really easy to get paranoid about keeping track, so really- I think your best bet is just to go with your mother's intuition. I know mine saved my daughter's life.
Besides, you could go any day now! Best of luck with the birth- I hope it all goes great :)
Claire
Thanks Claire, that explains it! It sounded like attend to only distressed cries and ignore everything else which I don't agree with myself. I'm glad you've had success in a way you feel comfortable with.:
At least you're getting your post count up! :Lol::
Thanks for the advice and supportive words Claire. My OB will allow the preg to proceed beyond 42 weeks if that's what I want. I already know that induction and the cascade of intervention is NOT what I want - however I thought I should make myself more aware of what can go wrong esp after 42 weeks. I am so delighted that Sophie's doing so amazingly well and I loved reading about your little friend Grace as well. Thanks for your blog.
xo
I've been thinking about this overnight. We finally had a bad night last night- it was 30 degrees C in Sophie's room plus she has molars breaking through the gum, so I guess it's understandable! As a result I spent a couple of hours sitting in Sophie's room trying to settle her down, before I gave up and brought her out to sleep in my room under the air conditioner.
Anyway, I thought it was worth clarifying that the Dream Baby Guide DOES recommend (after you work through a good couple of weeks of communication, role play and teaching your child to trust their bed) that you leave them alone in their cot and manage their crying. The aim is that they'll understand just what you're asking them to do, and that the crying will be short-lived and cranky only as a result, but still- it DOES ask you to leave them to cry in one form.
I just felt like I should clarify this lest anyone think I'm misrepresenting what it says in the book. I'm not, but at the same time I've chosen to take what works for me, and substitute what doesn't with my own approach- I'm still not comfortable leaving Sophie to cry, so I don't. I sit next to her and pat her back until she goes to sleep, though I do all the other steps, and they all work.
I still need to implement some of the other parts of the DBG, and after I do that I'm planning on taking a No-Cry/ Dr. Sears approach to gradually removing myself from the sleep equation by saying my verbal cues from beside the cot, then from the doorway, etc until she's happy enough without me there.
I haven't got to this part of the book. Though a lot of her approach makes good sense to me, I'm not a fan of that part of it. Leaving them while talking, and even mild whinging I think is ok, but I'm not comfortable with leaving a baby to cry.:
I think this is the key with any approach or method. Pick out the parts that click with your own philosophy and work for you and your baby. I think I'll be trying something similar to you when bubs is old enough.:
I hope you don't feel judged or like you need to justify yourself because of this thread :hug:
Hi Skeeta,
I do feel a bit like I need to justify myself- it came as something of a surprise to hear it suggested up-thread that my motivation for posting might be something other than plain desire to help others.
I've been through the wringer and back with Sophie's sleep, and the best advice I've received has been through reading what worked for others, rather than being told what to do. Just thought I could contribute my own experience.
Just a bit of Newbie Neurosis- I'm all good now :)
Claire
Why are people feeling so defensive?! No-one has been attacked, only questions asked. If anyone does attack, moderators deal with it, members can also report it via the report function... why is it that people 'expect' to be attacked or judged, when its NOT happened and the idea of it has only been perpetuated from those who use this method. Instead they attack and judge us by expecting us to do it when we work our arses off trying to avoid it happening in the first place. You might hear some pretty passionate views, but I am sorry, you create the feeling of guilt/being judged etc yourself - no-one else can control that.
ETA: Claire, when you run a large website with a large audience, you get alot of people wanting to promote their own products, services or money making schemes for free in this way. A prime example is a new member who comes in, promotes/raves something (or even heavily bags one thing), posts a link and doesnt do an intro or post in any other forums. Unfortunately your post fit that, so we keep an eye on it. We've also had major problems in the past (as have other sites who contacted us) about a well known baby trainer who trolls and posts all over websites, and we all were very quick to spot it.
Hi Kelly,
I think the defensiveness is just the other side of the newbie thing, honestly. I just wandered in here after a hit on my blog thinking I could help out, and was surprised by the reaction. It's a sensitive topic, obviously.
BUT I've seen my own reaction before- I'm a moderator on a well-known writers forum and I see the same thing happen there all the time. We get stacks of people intentionally posting to promote books/ services/ products, and it's just not permitted- and at the same time, we get people wandering in and inadvertently doing the same thing without intending to, then wondering what they've done wrong.
What I'm saying is, I really do understand where you're coming from, and I hope you can see now that I'm not spruiking anything- I'm happy to become a properly introduced forum member (I already posted in that section) and I hope I can provide some support and advice to others (and get some in return- I have a stack of things I need answers for, like how the heck to wean my breast-obsessed daughter!)
Claire
Thanks Claire. Some of the stuff you have said from the book (I haven't read it) does make sense and I can see how it can be useful, but I'm with you, I don't agree with the leaving them to cry bit. Studies have shown that this is bad for baby, and it just doesn't sit right with me at all. Seems like she has some good suggestions in there about some other things though. Especially how to get baby to know what you want from them.
I was skeptical of yours and another persons first posts (no offence intended) because you had no posting history on Bellybelly. As you can imagine, it's easy for someone who wants to promote their book to join up a website/forum like this and rave about how their book was so wonderful and helped their baby sleep through the night for the first time, etc, in order to promote sales of their book.:
But it sounds like you're a genuine person. Thanks for posting your experiences with your daughter. BB is a great community to share and learn from other mums & dads about what works for them, so I hope you enjoy your time here.
ETA: oops it took a while to finish writing this post in-between feeding baby & playing with toddler. Didn't realise I was repeating what others have already said.
Yup happens everywhere, but this section we're very wary of, because not only the trouble we've had with baby trainers in the past, but of course, it's about health, babies and also BB's philosophy to offer gentle solutions. It was started out with a gentle parenting tangent, and thats why I made the decision to contribute initially given that someone mentioned something about 90% of a baby's cries wasn't an emotional need but a protest... so politely asked to clarify, but somehow, it stirred the notion of being judged. No matter how careful you can post sometimes, it still touches people's wounds.
Ooh I also wanted to ask something else about the author... I haven't read the book so I don't know but does it say what her qualifications are?? Where's she getting all this stuff from, etc? Is there any research to back it up?? I mean like in the book 'what every parent needs to know' they back up things they say with research, e.g. being left to cry is bad for babies health.
So I was wondering if it says anything in the front of her book about how she's come up with these ideas, long-term outcomes of kids, etc. I know someone said she's not a mother herself so I guess it's not from experience with her own kids.
Thanks!