Again I would like to point out that lock jaw is a myth.:
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Again I would like to point out that lock jaw is a myth.:
i wouldnt get rid of your dog pitbulls are stereotyped as nasty but that doesnt mean that all are any dog can turn at anytime
Having a undesexed pitbull is illegal
breeding from a pitbull is illegal
trading a pitbull is illegal
acquiring a pitbull is illegal
not declaring to your council thst you have a pitbull is illegal
not registering your pitbull is illegal
not having a restricted dogs permit for your pitbull is illegal
To get a permit and your dog registered requires you to show evidence to council that you have in place all the restricted dog provisions....
these include adequate fencing, shelter, muzzling your dog in public, desexing by 9 months, having a warning sign on your property to warn you have a restricted dog for emergency personnnel etc, there is a loooong list of requirements. These get reviewed by council every 12 months. If you dont have a permit and rego or they decline to give you one, they can come to your property and cease and destroy your dog. You get one complaint about your dogs behaviour and they can choose to deny your permit and rego and cease your dog.
do you want this stress every 12 months??? owning a restricted breed comes with a lot of extra requirements, responsibilities.
bottom line is, you shouldnt even be in this situation because if the laws were followed by the owners of your dogs parents in the first place your dog wouldnt exist. i'm sorry you are, i have two dogs mysrlf and love dogs and i saw your pic and your puppy is gorgeous. but the law is not on your side here.
also, you can only destroy him her surrender him to council, giving him to any other person is illegal.
i think you should really call your council first thing monday and get the lowdown on all the requirements of restricted dogs. you dont want to pay money to desex only to have council cease and destroy him a week later because you've been reported to council for breaking a law.
I disagree. Probably not great for the dog as the kid gets heavier but dogs need to know Kids are unpredictable, and a dog needs to learn to be tolerant of them. If my son decides to hop on our dogs back, he let's him and that's that. If my son decides to give our dog a cuddle, our dog let's him. God, if DS wants to put his fingers up our dogs nose, pull on his ears and prod at his eyes he let's him! But of course there are times you draw a line purely because it's not nice of the dog. Eg: having a toy lawn mower plowed into you. Our dog still let's ds do that, but I don't because it's just mean! (same with the eye poking/ear pulling). DS also "gives" mannix stuff. I've watched him line up an assortment of toys, his own drink, hand things to mannix and mannix gently takes them from him or just watches (in amusement or tires annoyance, I'm never sure!):
When we first got mannix we were kidless however my sil had children so we always "roughed him up" from the get go so he'd be used to these "toddler" things. Pulling on his ears randomly, at his tail (obviously not to cause pain) so he would be tolerant of it if they did it.
My dd climbs and clambers over our dog too.... Will randomly cuddle and kiss him.... Tread on his fur (which isn't hard).
Kids need to be taught how to respect animals too. I'm probably on at ds & dd more to be gentle with the dog, than the other way around.
Kids are the ones who you can explain it to.... Dogs don't speak English.... They speak canine!
Dogs also can't tell a kid to rack off when they're annoying them.... They can't shove them away.... The only thing they have.... Is their mouths!
That is when you have to be careful.
But I agree with helle.... Dogs and kids together need to know where the line is drawn.
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- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - I wonder what the kids are up to....Better go!
i would second the idea of calling your council first thing monday morning and getting some help on this issue.
I have been thinking about this, and am going to ask what may seem a really dumb question: Do you actually own a pitbull? Maybe that would be the first thing to determine for sure.
I am posting a link to prove my point.
Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull
My brother bought a 'mastiff' X which is now fully grown and looks almost exactly like a fox terrier. People do get it wrong all of the time and you may want to consider if what you have is indeed a pitbull, and not a mix of staffy or mastiff or anything really. Do you have papers with it?
the vet can do a DNA test to determine whether the dog has pit bull in it
I used to work for the company that provides these DNA tests- unfortunately the test is not configured to test for pure bred American pit bull.
The test was developed by collecting thousands of DNA samples of pure bred dogs in Australia- APBT is not a recognized pure bred dog in Australia, nor were people that have these dogs willing to provide DNA samples.
However I did stop working for the company about 2 years ago, so it is possible that the technology has changed.
You can google BITSA or breed specificity test.
Thank you!:
this page might be a good read to help Educate some of the ignorant. Remember not all that you see on tv or in the papers are the truth, media like to glamourise things, after all if its not going to hold your interest then your less likely to pay attention. They use fear mongering when it comes to dog attacks.
some research.
The history
Dose your or your neighbours dog pass as a pit bull with this?
Myths and legends, understand a bull
some news articles.
vets warning
rspca boss
ETA, im not calling anyone ignorant, please do not take offence, ive just read that and it didnt come out the best, hopefully you can read past the ignorant comment! i can not think of a better wording at the moment. b ut people do need top be better educated on a topic that is potrayed as such a strong subject
ETAA: update with proper links..
Lashes - whilst it is great to link information, that site does look quite dubious. The information "may" be correct, but it is not verifiable. Something from an official breed club, or recognised society would be more appropriate.
Canine racism?? I LOL'ed.
I found that stats about german shepards pretty interesting, I'm terrified of those things!
thanks astrid, i am trying to locate some of the actual sites, ill edit them in when my computer gremlins start cooperating.
Good on you, Reet, for making the vet appt and following up with how to deal with the restrictions. That is responsible dog ownership. Let us know how it works out!
I like that link. It really does show how similar some of the breeds can look. I got it right first time, BUT that's with many many years of vet nursing under my belt. I bet a lot of people would take a few guesses to get it right.:
Reet, to me the pic of your pup looked more like an American Staffy.
Pit bull terriers and American Staffordshire bull terriers diverged as breeds when the ASBT were admitted to the kennel club as an official breed. They have a breed standard and are able to have purebred status. Pit bull terriers were further developed to be 'tough' dogs, there is no official standard for them and they are not considered a breed as such. Because there is no specification for a pit bull and you cannot get one with pedigree papers, basically any tough looking dog can be labelled a pit bull - so when a tough looking dog attacks people attribute the attack to a pit bull even though it could well be another 'tough' looking dog breed, and especially tough dog cross breeds e.g. mastiff x, staffy x etc. My old lab/english staff X was referred to as a pit bull on occasion because of her heavy set head.
Just a tip - make sure your dog has a safe place that they can retreat to away from the kids. So when they are sick of being a runway for planes, having matchbox cars parked on their face and whisker pulling stops being fun they can remove themselves from the kids and go somewhere for a bit of time out.
I understand that the jaw physically "locking" is myth but would you agree they are more likely to bite with the intention of not letting go as opposed to biting and retracting? The pitbull that ripped my grandparents neighbors collies leg off would not let go. Not even when being hit with an iron bar.:
My maltese cross who is 4.5kg has the ability to grab hold and hold on for dear life (when playing with a tug toy) - so any dog can certainly hold it's jaw tightly clenched - while 'lock jaw' might be a myth, a 20kg holding on to the death is certainly not.:
Oh Oh i checked that link and got it right first time.. fluke i guess but YAY :dance: they really all do look so VERY similar.
I think that's what concerns me most about pit bulls. The lack of regulation in breeding. If there could be some sort of standard to breeding them, then perhaps it would help to ensure that only those with good temperaments etc were bred. The fact that it is illegal to breed them doesn't seem to be stopping people from breeding them. Also, allowing indiscriminate cross breeding leads to unpredictability in what type of dog you end up with. (Just look at what is happening with so-called 'designer breeds'. Defects that have been bred out of certain breeds for generations are now reappearing, not to mention all the other issues arising due to the lack of regulation).:
I completely agree with this. I would be a lot happier to have, or live next to, a pure bred pit bull from a reputable breeder than I would a pit bull cross bred by whoever and sold for the highest bid.:
"lock jaw" is a Terrier thing, so jack russells have it too but people think those are cute- I've seen 1 rip a rabbit to shreads on a farm- not so cute now! Any big dog can seriously injure sombody. I have come across more little cute fluffy dogs bite (nip) then big dogs but so many people think that its okay cause there small- double standards
Just wondering what they said?:
FWIW the fighting background that APBT's and other fighting breeds have can actually be an asset in a family pet - their higher tolerance for pain means that they can cope with the rough and tumble of living with toddlers and children better than many other breeds.
Personally I wouldn't get a pitbull because the BSL makes it hard for them to enjoy the kind of life a dog needs in order to be a sociable, well behaved member of canine society and because since they are outlawed lots of their breeders are irresponsible bogans but I would happily get an American Staffordshire Bull Terrier which I could register as a Pit Bull in America and is totally legal to own in Australia.
My sister adopted a dog that turned out not to have a shred of the purported mastiff she was after. Looked like a staffy or pitty cross (they were convinced it was lab). She felt uneasy about the dog when pg for the second time. She took it training, but as she's not a very strong animal person, the advice from the trainer was to err on the side of caution. I told her the same thing. She rehomed him to a child-less couple who liked to go for runs on the beach. So far, so good. She feels better, I feel safer taking my kids there. The crosses have more unpredictability.
The pitbull in the news was unregistered.
Some councils don't take 'new' Pitbull registrations, and although you have to declare you have a pitbull to council, if they refuse to register it, they'll take it. So I can understand why people don't have them registered.
Even though the restrictions have the best intentions, I think they've resulted in A LOT of backyard breeders which is SUPER bad and a lot of unregistered pitbulls!
Hi girls,
Sorry i didnt jump on here yesterday and fill you in, I was going to a few times but my little miss wldnt sleep for longer then 30 mins at a time!
Its so funny Krysalyss that you asked if I did actually know if Yogi is a pitbull! Guess what! His dad is actually half de bordeaux and his mum has ridgeback in her! I have pics of them, so any dog experts out there pm me and ill forward u them to see what u think! :) I will also add a pic of our Yogi boy now in there too, just so u can tell me what breed u think he looks like most :) So basically, he does have pitbull in him, but hes a mixed breed. Even though a few of u ladies have said that purebreds are alot better then mixed breeds atleast I dont have to worry about him possibly getting taken off me!
I wish I had known earlier, it wld have stopped me stressing so much! I think when we bought Yogi and saw that his parents werent staffies, I just asked if they were full pitbull pups, and the owner answered yes so I just assumed they were pitbull and werent crossed with anything.
So he just has the mum registered as ridgeback x and according to the vet the pups are ridgeback x too.
Whilst it is a huge weight off my shoulders since I dont have to worry about any of the restrictions and very expensive registration, I also know that the breeds mixed into Yogi are very strong ones still so he will still need a LOT of training and socialising.
Artechim- I actually didnt know american red nose staffys existed. Thats what the pups were advertised as being, but we found out that breeders of pitbulls just call them that so theres no problems. But i have just looked up google and yes Yogi really does look like an american red nose staffy! So they are an actual breed??
Caixin- Right now im not worried at all about Yogi biting anyone. When we take him for a walk each arvo I let him say hello to ppl walking past, he just has a sniff, tries to get a pat and is on his merry way! He also definitely knows that myself, DH and our DD are superior to him, thats why he is so gentle when we are around. I handfeed him occasionally just so he knows he has to be gentle and even though he goes absolutely crazy over food, he never once bites on my fingers, even if i shove them in his mouth. He is also never allowed to play with us using his mouth at all.. that way there hopefully wont ever be any little biting mishaps! You can also raise ur voice at him a little bit and he cowers. (this is definitely not due to any smacks either!) Like Helle and Yules said, we will continue to surround him with our DD and our little nieces and nephews because thats the only way he will learn how to be around them! If he didnt have any interaction at all with little kids and babies then he wldnt have any idea how to act when they are close by. He wld probably see them as great fun things and run around after them and possibly knock them over! Right now though, he knows if a child or a baby is around and touching him, he has to lay there completely relaxed. The other day we had our DD sitting right next to him and he was always trying to turn his head so he cld lick her juicy fingers but dh told him to just lay down and stay there, he stretched out and put his head down and fell asleep! But like Artechim said, If he looked like he wanted to walk away though we wld let him.
I think its a lot better to train him how to be around kids while he is only 20kgs rather then 40!!
Lashes- Im just off to read those links now, thanks! :)
Krysalyss- thanks for that link too with all the different dogs, i got it wrong, so did my dh! Its very interesting :)
Thanks again to everyone that has helped, and also a huge big thankyou to those that tried to keep an open mind and not straight out judge me for not wanting to get rid of him straight away! ;) Thanks also for all the tips on how to keep him a happy and friendly doggie.
He is off to the vet on Wed at lunchtime for his de-nutting so I will be asking about training for him, even if he isnt going to be a vicious dog I wld rather have full control of him at all times anyway.
THANKS AGAIN!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ps. I do realise that since he does have pitbull in him still, im not completely in the clear with regards to the law, but as long as he spends his life being a good boy then i guess everything shld be fine. We will be keeping a very very firm grip on him til the day he dies!
I used to have a pom x sheltie who was super intelligent and super loyal, gorgeous dog I'll never forget. I will also never forget that he had ZERO tolerance of small children. I worried about it when DP and I started thinking about children. He was run over just before I fell pregnant, and even though I was devastated about that awesome little dog, and still get so, so sad that he isn't alive today, I am only given comfort by the fact that he would have resented my kids and done something to them, guaranteed. Shelties are very loyal dogs and aren't given to being in families, apparently, so that explains that quite a bit.
Meanwhile, my parents adopted a Viszla from a local person once, but when they brought her home I realised she wasn't pure and she had pit in her. She wasn't super friendly and I convinced my parents to take her back because she wouldn't be suitable around a baby and growing child, or, more pertinently at the time, around their goat.
My sister's previous dog was so, so sweet, but was slow to learn in the obedience club. My BiL and her couldn't get a handle on him (but, realistically, they're not really dog people, even though they have another dog now who is very self-sustaining). My sis had that doubt, because she kept asking me what I would do, she kept asking the trainers until they realised she didn't want to hear what was convenient (only after I'd been there for about 5 days, though!) and played it straight. They said that a pure bred would be more predictable with training and a good environment, but the cross meant it could go either way at no notice.
The dog was sweet, but made me nervous. And I'm a dog-lover from way back! I am also an adherent of Monty Robert's words about dangerous horses and I generalise them to dogs - a dangerous animal is better off dead. It either leads a life of being treated roughly because of it's aggression, or will kill/hurt someone and be put down anyway.
With dogs, there is usually the option to rehome to a non-child situation.
I've had shepherd crosses all my life and there was only one I think wouldn't be allowed to live these days. Yet he was ace with us and protective of us (he bit a neighbour...twice!). My current dog is just awesome and a shepherd cross Dane. Our little dog is a Westy cross - she's become less tolerant of small people (put up with all sorts of things with DS but is very short tempered with DD who doesn't even dish out any dirt to her!), and it's here I keep my eye on because she won't automatically go away when annoyed (she has that "love me" desperation) where the big dog knows he can just walk away and find alone time. I place some measure of trust in him especially know that he has infinite space to run away from an antagonising little boy - we're on a farm now and the dogs aren't yarded unless we're not in!
Like I said to my sister, if it were ME I would move the dog on (I never suggested destruction unless as a last resort - she wanted a resolution before the baby was born in 3 months of that time), but that's ME and ME wouldn't have been fooled by the breed because I've got a much better eye for these things than she does.
I've come across dangerous dogs before in vet clinics and they are very scary beasts. Not pure bred, necessarily, either. The dogs would have been better off dead with the existence they had. I came across them when they were in for desexing. Would be cheaper and happier to give the magic green needle, frankly. The dogs were unstable and had to be restrained to be sedated before being put under general for surgery. They were wearing awful large collars in prescribed colours. These dogs can't actually enjoy life or be enjoyed by anyone. Who knows, maybe they were nice as pups before they turned and their owners too naive or egotistical to put them down.
My GF had her lab put down. She adopted him later in his life and she loved him. Until she saw him grab a chook and completely disregard her commands (they'd been going to training), totally caught up in the kill. She had a small child and a baby at the time. She couldn't live with the risk while he was alive, so she made the awful decision. Knowing what needs to be done doesn't mean it's an easy decision to make. She was a mess. But relieved when it was done.
Early desexing is recommended. Those growth issues can be mitigated with careful feeding - people with large dog pups often make the mistake of feeding their dogs a lot. Careful feeding is the key, regardless - our dog was desexed at 8 weeks and had a shallow hip whilst growing and given the all clear at about 2yo. His siblings were mostly destroyed by 6 months because their dysplasia was so bad - the clinic (where I was volunteering and where I got him) was sure it was because of feeding method. I sought some expert advice on feeding him when we got him and was aware of the potential issues, so he's still alive today :) Anyway, early desexing is a sound practice and not to be feared.
It's a weigh up of the risk of attack and how prepared you are to take the ultimate, hypothetical responsibility. The guy in St Albans is now going to be charged because the dog was unregistered. He'll be fined, as well.
Good luck.
Yogi will be fine reet :)
Just remember all this advice!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - I wonder what the kids are up to....Better go!
Interesting ruling in Victoria today - Victorian owners of pitbulls or pitbull crosses have 4 weeks to register as such or they will be destroyed.
Reet, did you ever answer the question about you having your dog registered with the local council? Regardless of breed, this is the law in Qld.
But if people don't want to register their dog as a pit bull they can just pick a similar but allowed breed like a staffy x. That is what I would do :)
They are encouraging neighbours to dob people in if they suspect a pit bull or pit bull cross is living nearby.:
Which I guess brings me back to how you would feel if your dog injured someone? Hiding the breed doesn't change that and is one of the major worries - that people feel they need to lie to keep their dangerous dog.:
They said on the news that if a dog 'fits the description of a pit bull' the dog will be seized. I'm not sure how that will be accurately enforced when it is clear that several breeds might 'fit the description'??
What I keep coming back to is why in the world would you decide to get a dog that is so dangerous and restricted...there are a stack of other breeds to choose from, why knowingly pick a dog that is a risk to you and other people? It worries me greatly that people could choose to get a pitbull and lie about what it really is.
I have absolutely no idea how they could enforce a rule like that either :dunno:
Yep. That ^^^:
Seriously.....why would you lie about that??? And this is where many of the problems start.............
its a tough call cant pigeon hole every pitbull just coz some attack doesnt mean they all will.
You shouldn't pigeon hole any dog. Any breed. But the fact is there are rules and restrictions in place on these dogs that are flaunted. If you want the dog, then make sure you stick by the rules and give everyone around it, whether they live in the same household, or up the street, a chance to be safe should the worst situation happen and the dog snaps (and when I say snaps, I mean crack the ****s, not bite). If the dog is correctly confined then if it does have a "moment", the people around it should still be safe and the owners can then decide on the dog's fate.
Yep!: