Do Japanese Women Eat Sushi, Do French Women Eat Soft Cheese/Pate

I have just read the whole thread...:D

As Tootoomany said Listeria can be asymptomatic - that is what makes it quite dangerous - you don't necessarily know you have been eating contaminated food.

Someone mentioned "food laying around in the sun". You won't get Listeria from that my loves... ;) But you could get a whole pile of other stuff.

Someone was commenting on hospital staff when Judy lost her baby... This is done for good reason - because stillbirths often occur as a result of asymptomatic listeria contamination. It is not said as a blame thing - it is said as a possibility. Therefore what you have eaten is investigated. Trust me you want to know all possibilities when it is you wanting answers - I know I did. I was tested rigorously for Listeria after all of my losses. Contracted early Listeria can cause miscarriage. I am not sure how Jude felt about this being investigated - but for me it at least gave me a possibility.

It is now well documented that there is no 'safe" consumption of alcohol during pregnancy. Again, as TTM said - it's up to you if you want to take those chances and those risks. I feel tho it's important to state that it is known tht there is a risk attatched - however small that may seem to some.

Pregnant life would be so much easier if the Ob's or M/W's gave us a list of what was safe & what wasn't.
I often want a hotdog & think, well if it were that bad the Ob would say so :rolleyes:

Deb that is so true. At that time you want to know why your baby has died when everything seems to be ok. You want to know there is a reason for it even if it is something you ate, at least it is a reason and not a big unknown.
I know down here in Hobart at your very first OB visit we get a list of listeria prone foods. plus you can also go online to any search engine and type in listeria and pregnancy and you can get a list from any of those sites.
:hug: thank you Deb.

hugs
Jude

Storm that would be considered an unsafe food - unless it was absolutely piping hot - but its also a risk for food poisoning. Pregnant women (as they are immunosuppressed) are at greater risk of food poisoning from varying bacterium.

An obs would say: It's not recommended that you eat take out - unless it's fresh, piping hot and hasn't been sitting in bain maries.

The Food Standards Authority has a very informative website that is readily accessible.

You're welcome Jude... :hug:

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The other night we went out for our work Christmas party and one of the pg women was eating raw oysters, i thought the other pg woman there was going to have a heart attack in front of me LOL

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:o :o :o OMG.... that's playing with fire.

I luuuuuurve natural oysters but noooo way would i eat one whilst PG.

I too love oysters.A great time of year for all that luverly seafood but alas not for me. Its still not a risk Im willing to take. A few mouthfuls of something "forbidden" for the possibility of losing our precious babies. NOT worth it

Apart from listeria, eating shellfish, especially in third tri, CAN be an allergy risk. Having a DD who is allergic, I did alot of research, and some professionals say, eating the food in third tri can cause allergies. So I am now off all seafood and nuts!! (and eggs when poss).

As for the listeria, I eat most things accidentally!! Even yesterday we had lunch at my dads following chrissy dinner the night before. It was only on the way home I realised i'd eaten the turkey and ham cold the next day. Nothing I could do then... and I also had a small glass of champa's and wine at the dinner. I just do my best and won't eat or drink something if I feel it's not right. But when I do I don't beat myself up, I think everyone eats something on accident.

It does seem ridiculous though that each time Im pregnant something new is added to the "can't eat" list.

I'm not sure I understand why it's ridiculous. Research is done, findings are made and people are informed of risk. We eat more and more processed and refined and convenience foods that sometimes travels great distances. It stands to reason that as science keeps up with our lifestyles , the risks that accompany us will be identified along the way. It would be nice if they would quantify the risks in a bit more of a sophisticated manner, however.

I don't understand why some people think that eating things of the 'Don't Eat' list is ok?
Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?
Yeah I know they might be seen as extremes but the information is out there for a reason isn't it? You do these things and the chances are something truly terrible could happen to your unborn child. Their not their for you to follow when you choose, they're there to save you the heartbreak of losing a child, through something you could have easily avoided.
I would hate to think that I lost my child over something so little as eating the wrong thing.
Sorry if I have upset or offended anyone, that was not my intention.

On my very first midwife visit I was given a list of what to avoid & I avoided it all (already was before I got there). You kind of do that when you've already had 3 unexplained losses - all too early for the medical profession to bother investigating. By the time I went to that visit I'd seen a number of GP's & two OB's & they'd all verbally given me a list of what to avoid.... they all had slightly different list. The midwife's one was the most thorough and informative.

What I learnt from that leaflet is that many people get listeria & don't know they have it. Why is that? Because usually it's like you have a cold or flu - most people seem to think you'd have symptoms like you've got gastro but that only happens sometimes. You'd only know you had it from a specialised BT.

I also learnt it could lay dormant for up to 70 days in your system before it caused issues so that listeria borne food that you ate 2 months ago which you thought was OK cos you didn't get the runs could still be sitting there when you give birth. Likely result for bubs - stillbirth.

Anyways, yes I'm sure they do eat those things in those countries but I reckon they also have higher levels of stillbirth caused by listeria. It would probably be almost impossible to compare statistics but I reckon that's what the result would be. A lot of earlier losses could be caused by it too, but as the great majority of losses don't get investigated we will never know the exact figures.

The danger was only discovered in the 80's. That's why our mothers and grandmothers scoff at those of us who avoid such foods.

I constantly get shocked by women who think the risk of listeria has lessened after the first tri. Wrong. Probably far more dangerous in the third tri cos if you do have listeria in your system when bub is on it's way out (and remember that you may not know you have it) the result could be dire.

It's not easy avoiding the list of risky foods but it can be done. I'm sure it's far easier to deal with avoiding a few foods than it is to deal with a late loss cos of listeria.

It's not ridiculous as in they shouldn't tell us..! It's ridiculous as in Im a foodie and I hate being restricted!!! Just as long as they don't add Macca's burgers to the list Im happy (it's the only time I indulge in them, sorry bubs)!!

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It's not easy avoiding the list of risky foods but it can be done. I'm sure it's far easier to deal with avoiding a few foods than it is to deal with a late loss cos of listeria.

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I think it is quite easy to avoid those type of foods! The issue is more so dealing with wants or desires isn't it.

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I haven't read all of the posts yet but feel really compelled to reply to what I have read! :protest:

Listeria poisoning in pregnancy exists - it isn't some trick of the authorities to make eating choices difficult for pregnant women.

It is not a fallacy - having witnessed deaths of babies inutero from listeria and having contact with 2 other women who have lost their beloved babies thru this bacteria - let me assure you of this reality.

It is YOUR choice what you eat when you are pregnant. A likely outcome if you contract Listeria is the death of your baby inutero. So, be informed, make an decision based on the knowledge that we have.

Is it likely that you will contract listeria if you do not follow the guidelines? It's not likely but you are more likely to than someone who does eat "safely".

Listeria is found frequently in soft serve ice cream (even Maccas), soft cheeses like brie, fetta and camembert, rice that has been cooked, stored and cooled. Pre made salads. 6 out of 10 fridges randomly tested on an current affair show (cannot remember which one) had listeria present in the salads & other foods contained in the fridges.

Should you be paranoid? NO! As I have said before if you are sensible it's highly unlikely you will contract listeria. Wash salads well before preparing. Do not store uncooked rice in your fridge for later use. Wash your hands well etc etc.

Your body your choice but for those that think these are "rules" and restrictions put upon you by the pregnancy police - politely I ask you to think again. There were unexplained still births through the millenia - now all stillborn babies and their Mamas are tested for listeria as it's a known cause.

It's great if you have a "healthy and developmentally normal" child and ate "at risk" foods. Again clearly you most likely did not come in contact with listeria contamination during pregnancy if you had a live baby. The most likely outcome of Listeria contamination is foetal death - not developmental delays...

There are many women who have lost babies due to listeria and other reasons that now have a way to be avoided.

Is avoidance of certain foods for 9 months really such a drama??? I have been pregnant 12 times and frankly saw it as just what I did to give my baby the best chance - not a ball and chain.

Listeria loves a cool environment - refrigeration DOES NOT kill listeria. Heat does. Pasteurization heats the food & would kill the listeria at the point of pasteruization (if it were contaminated) but then the listeria bacteria can grow in the food once it is cooled in refrigeration.. Listeria favours foods with a certain ph.

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I don't understand why some people think that eating things of the 'Don't Eat' list is ok?
Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?
Yeah I know they might be seen as extremes but the information is out there for a reason isn't it? You do these things and the chances are something truly terrible could happen to your unborn child. Their not their for you to follow when you choose, they're there to save you the heartbreak of losing a child, through something you could have easily avoided.
I would hate to think that I lost my child over something so little as eating the wrong thing.
Sorry if I have upset or offended anyone, that was not my intention.

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I am pretty shocked that people are saying that it is just a 'blanket rule'. I think if you lost a baby, or knew someone who did that you wouldn't be saying that.
i used to eat all the wrong things, I was young and dumb and didn't understand what Listeria was.
It can be passed through soil. It isn't killed by the cold. ONE bit of deli meat can cause it, so no it's not everything in moderation.
This pregnancy I didn't eat ANYTHING off the no eat list, and it was EASY... I mean I wouldn't think anyting was hard if it meant my baby wouldn't be put at risk. I would live off rice and water.
My friend found out the baby died from Listeria because she had a blood test and her baby had a spinal fluid test thing and both came back as positive.
You can have listeria and just think it's a tummy ache, or gastro.
Do what you will, but I don't think abstaining from some risky foods is hard when it's your babies life you are talking about.

I think Christmas is going to be hard because the older generation don't seem to think it is important. My MIL does all cold meats for the family meal even though I have told her I can't eat them or the coleslaw. Normally I eat coleslaw, smoked salmon and had ham and tomatoe sandwiches every day but I go without while pg.
One of the small catered Christmas functions we went to the Chef came out and was astounded I knocked back both entrees.. one was deli meats and the other was cold seafood platter. I told him pg women can't eat things like that and why and he was moset put out. He seemd to think because he had put it on the plate it would be ok but where did it come from before he got it all out the packet?
It's not like a lifetime sentence it is only 40 wks of watching what you eat for a healthy baby. You eat other foods that are good for baby so what is so hard about avoiding bad foods.

I think the reason other than eating coleslaw (which back then I didn't know about) for why the Drs thought our stillbirth was Listeria was coz when I got to the hospital that evening I was continuous vomiting for no reason.

Very true angelicdragon! Even my DF is like that...he thinks I'm just being "paranoid"..no matter how many times I tell him I would just prefer not to take the risk of something happening that could have been prevented! Then goes on to tell me his mum smoked & drank throughout all 3 of her pregnancies yet all three kids "turned out fine" :rolleyes:
Again, I have informed myself of the risks and simply prefer to cut those foods out of my diet for the time being, I can live without, and I would much rather a healthy baby at the end of it all, than sacrificing that chance for a slice of deli ham or a bit of cheese...

It is increasingly painful to read this thread.

I have lost two babies. Did it make me more worried about food? No. Sorry. It didn't. I do not believe i killed my babies inadvertently (though if listeria can lie dormant for 70 days NO WOMAN of childbearing age should be eating the "danger" foods) through what i did or thought or ate, but if i DID i believe in higher things than my own fallability. Those babies, heartbreaking as it is, were never going to be my in-arms children. They came to me for a reason, but they were never going to stay, and no amount of restriction or indulgence would have changed it - if it wasn't one thing it would have been another. I don't believe in Fate we can't change, but i also don't believe we can know why our lives look how they do - for ME (i'm not telling anyone else they should feel this way) SOME babies die. Some of them will be my babies. They die for a reason like everyone else. I might not be able to see or understand the reason, it might cause me horrible pain to be separated from my children-who-didn't-come, but i believe that for SOME reason, i am supposed to be, for now.

Some people go through senseless agony and loss to get one baby and others merrily shoot up and snort and mainline their way to a brood of 10 shockingly healthy babies (all removed by child services). There are greater forces at work than food bacterias and vitamin supplements. That's not "Truth" - other women who lost babies might NOT believe that and might feel they WOULD have their baby if they eaten or behaved differently, and i'm not judging them. Everyone has to live with their own feelings following a loss.

It is not fair to say "if you lost a baby you'd be careful". None of us, whatever our suffering, is in a position to tell another how to react to their own pain. I don't know why my first two children died, but the fact that i ate the sushi i craved when i was pregnant with my third doesn't mean i loved or wanted any of my babies less than a woman who decided not to eat what she craved.

Bx

Very very well said, Hoobley.

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Listeria does not distinguish between pateruized and unpasteurized food.

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But isn't pasturisation a heat treating process there by making products from pasturized milk less likely to contain listeria? (Btw i agree with the rest of your posts FC! Just wondering about this. ;) )

Pastuerization kills germ that are already there but it doesn't stop new ones from growing.

The milk can be pasteurised before making the cheese but then vats and pipes involved in making the cheese can be contaminated.

First of all i have not lost any pregnancy or m/c. However i agree that you cant blame what you eat (if on the non list) that that was the cause of the death of the precious bub!
How about the women who shoot up eat ALL the wrong things and dont give a s h i t about their unborn kids and guess what they have normal helathy children (is not right and im not saying it is ) but i get so damned anoyed with women ( my sister included) that think what they do (eating and drinking wise is correct) should be what everyone pregnant women should do!

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the fact that i ate the sushi i craved when i was pregnant with my third doesn't mean i loved or wanted any of my babies less than a woman who decided not to eat what she craved.

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Well said.

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I don't understand why some people think that eating things of the 'Don't Eat' list is ok?
Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?...
Sorry if I have upset or offended anyone, that was not my intention.

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Lisa I don't think it is fair to compare cheese to ecstacy or cold meat to smoking....

this thread has really gone off topic hasn't it? I'm sure it wasn't meant to start a debate that isn't necessary. I'm sure we are all aware of the dangers and know the facts, but it ultimately is up to the individual what they decide to eat.

Hmmm yeah, makes sense.... so still a risk, but perhaps not as high a risk as cheese made from unpasturized milk. Risk is still a risk though eh?
Thanks. :D

I still think people take things to literally!!!!

There is no need to comment on others' choices. This thread was not started as a debate about people who eat foods that are not recommended. Please stay on topic and be respectful of others' choices when posting.

Wow girls... I think everyone needs to take a step back. We need to consider what we choose for ourselves & our babies.

Just because I chose to abstain from soft cheeses, cold meat, and pre packaged salads and most food that has been sitting for too long... doesn't mean that I have the right to judge someone else who chooses those things. I may have profound reasons why I don't... some may have profound reasons why they do....

And because I chose to have a half a wine here or there throughout pregnancy doesn't mean that anyone else has the right to judge me.

Some may chose to control cry their babies once born, and others may chose not too. We all can find evidence on why we make the choices we make... doesn't mean we should judge that other parents aren't "good" parents.

Can I suggest that we stop the judging now? Before it gets out of hand? We can guide and suggest different ways of doing things, but we don't need to tell anyone that what they are doing is "wrong".

It is definately inaccurate to think that pasteurisation will kill all listeria, thats a fact, but it doesn't mean that we can judge or think differently.

FWIW,... I ate sushi that was vegetarian, or cooked.... quite happily. And I ate soft cheeses, if they were cooked on a pizza etc..... that was my way around it ;)

Well, I'm a bit disappointed to be honest. Out of 66 posts, I think (without going back and counting) only about three people have attempted to answer my original question.

As a member of this forum and a mother who has lost babies - I find your post insulting to the extrememe Hoobley. Actually I haven't read a more insensitive post in my whole Belly Belly involvement.

Your body your choice. It is an absolute fact that women lose babies to listeriosis - I just pray that the women in this forum who have don't read your insensitive remarks. Some women actually KNOW this Hoobley - as it is tested for because it is such a silent killer.

Women can make the choice on what they put into their bodies whilst pregnant. If you choose foods known to be a listeriosis risk - that is the choice you are making for yourself and your baby. You can make a foul sweep and say "babies just die sometimes and I ate sushi & it's fine!
". All good. Some women are unfortunate enough to contract this and their outcomes are not so rosy. What we need is for women to make INFORMED choices not an opinion based on "it was okay for my mother so it's okay for me". Again Uncle Jack downed the bourban and he lived to 105 so we all have the livers to cope ... NOPE!

It seems you imply Hoobley that "fate happens'...

Some babies die my love & sometimes it can be prevented. I know I have lived it.

I certainly hope that women don't read this thread & are tempted to believe that listeriosis is just a myth. It's a risk (albiet very small) but it's a risk.

Some women have pica in pregnancy - their bodies crave wood, oil, dirt - you think that's a good thing??? We can't always trust our bodies. Many many many of us have learnt that our bodies can let us down.

Pop that soft cheese etc etc but do so knowing the risk not denying it...

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I bet Japanese women carry on eating sushi and I bet French women carry on eating their brie and pate."

I'm not trying to encourage people to break the 'rules', I'm just curious as to whether people actually know whether that's the case. Anyone been pregnant in those countries and/or is aware of their guidelines?

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fiona, I haven't been pregnant in those countries (although I did fall pregnant while travelling around Europe ;) ) but my theory is that those foods are likely to be more a part of the daily diet for women in those countries than they are here, so their bodies would be more tolerant of those foods?

When i worked in epidemiology (2003) i read that because poor nutrition has been demonstrated to be a contributing factor or cause of pre-eclampsia and eclampsia it is considered unwise to tell a woman whose main source of protein is soft cheese or fish sushi not to eat it. In the UK or AUS where a woman would probably not be eating those foods regularly or relying on them to be a main source of protein telling her to avoid them would be much safer - the risk of food poisoning would probably be greater than that of poor-nutrition-related-PE.

Flowerchild i was devastated by your words and in tears for some time. I don't know what to do but re-state my position.

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That's not "Truth" - other women who lost babies might NOT believe that and might feel they WOULD have their baby if they eaten or behaved differently, and i'm not judging them. Everyone has to live with their own feelings following a loss.

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Clearly you were hurt by my words, which was not at all my intention, i was not directing my beliefs at anyone in particular; i was merely sharing them, as is usual on forums of this nature. I did not mention listeria in my previous post, i was talking about my personal beliefs about the Fates of my babies and how their loss made me think and feel about foods and their safety or not. Rest assured i was devastated by your attack, which sadly it seems was absolutely your intention. I'm truly sorry for your losses and the pain you have endured. I hope the way in which you handle it every day allows you peace, as my ways of handling it have allowed me in some small measure.

Bx

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Sure, you might have a bit of brie, or a piece of cold meat and nothing happen to the baby.... does that also make it ok to have a cigarette? Or to pop an ecstacy tablet? Or to have a shot of alcohol?

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No, but people still do it .... I have many friends who continued to smoke throughout pregnancy, purely because of the belief that their baby will be smaller to birth ... WITHOUT taking into consideration the health risks to both mother and child. But that is off the topic ;)

Fiona - I remember reading somewhere a couple of years ago that the foetal mortality rate in Japan was high (and for the life of me can't find the study now!) but I don't think there were any attributions to listeria ... but it does make you wonder doesn't it?

I know many years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, I wondered about the sushi - I had eaten sushi at least 2-3 times a week for many years before falling pregnant - and I thought "well what do Japanese women eat when they are pregnant?" For me though, each time I have been pregnant, I have gone totally off seafood :rolleyes: Plus all meats (red, chicken, pork ...) and the last two times vegetables even churned my stomach ... doesn't leave alot to eat does it? lol

Im realising lately (with friends especially, and with forums) that everyone thinks they are right. But that's ok I think, as our opinion is what we think is correct. I think the heartache comes when we try to tell others our opinion, and others don't take the advice, it can feel personal, even though it shouldn't be taken that way.
The fact is we all do what we do,and in 99.9% of cases, we are doing the best that we can. I also believe on a forum, it's not all truth anyway, so I wouldn't take every single post as 100% truth. We can be and/or say whatever we want and no one really knows us.
I think the idea is that we do go off track on posts, it's like conversations, they always end up somewhere different to where they start, that's normal. I would just try not to read into things. The other problem is when writing people can't hear tone, expression etc and often things are taken WAY out of context.
But really I think we just need to understand that deep down, we all think we are pretty right, otherwise we wouldn't have a certain opinion. Not sure if that makes sense, but we are talking about pregnancy/birth, there is no right or wrong in alot of it anyway. When it comes down to it, we are all going to do things differently and the idea of a forum is to share ideas and we can take what we want from what we read. We can also give what has worked/not worked for us and people can choose if they want to try some of what we've said.
saying all that, I choose what I'll eat and what I won't and some of that is on the no list (like a soft serve from macca's, and a glass of wine, and soft cheese that's pasturised) and like Hoobley said, that does not mean I love my child any less. Infact I feel like I love my kids more than anyone ever has in existence (and Im sure alot of other people feel that too). We each have to have our own experience's. xoxo

I actually don't agree it's about being right and wrong.

It's about personal choice. Comments were made to the vein that it's all a bit over the top and "we never had these rules in our mothers day" etc etc. Comments such as "I ate it and look my baby is alive and developmentally fine".

People look and read and some people just believe opinions. So therefore facts have to be stated.

Listeriosis is a real albiet small risk. It is a "common" cause of stillbirth. It isn't a story with unknown faces...

Yes, I was offended Hoobley - as you were "growing increasingly tired" - your beliefs may be that your babies died and that's just the way it is. However, my babies died because I had an undiagnosed condition. I have made it my lifes work to help and support those that are enduring the same. I have seen cases of stillbirths due to listeriosis and "they were never meant to be" really doesn't cut it in a labour room when there is a silence that can cut the air.

Yes, I am sensitive about this issue (I wave my arms around guiltily) Yes you have pushed my buttons - but my over flowing in box last night told me how hurt others were also...

We all say stuff without thinking. We all say stuff without really understanding how it might be heard. Its all good - my wounds are never kept open - life is too short for that. :hug:

It is true that the written word without facial expressions etc can be misinterpreted. Absolutely true. As for it being the truth - well I am different. I live my life authentically and I always make the assumption (unless I am proven otherwise) that others do too.

Posts often get off topic - back to France and Japan - but it's about discussion and learning and peer support. :hug:

I actually think it's pretty funny that people assume japanese women live on sushi and french women live on soft cheeses. LOL.

I did a quick google and of course couldn't find anything. But I did find something on french women drinking alcohol during pregnancy, and it said that they were actually uninformed about the dangers of alcohol in pregnancy, and that it was a surprising find that many of the women admitted to not knowing of any of the dangers. There's been no campaigning or information distributed on this topic to french women.

So, the same may be true about Japanese and sushi. Who knows.

I didn't find avoiding these foods that hard.. in the big scheme of things its a pretty small sacrifice to make and an easy one. The fact that you can have listeriosis and not know it is what scared me. It really was no biggy to miss out on a few foods. You could say that women centuries ago didn't have all these 'rules' but their food would have been 100 times different too. We have so much processed food, and even our 'fresh' food has an unbelievable shelf life these days too. I think if research has found that some of our modern food can contain a harmful bacteria, then it's worth listening to.

My way of looking at it is the same Liz. What I find most disturbing is the erroneous belief that pasteurized food cannot grow listeriosis. Women assume if they eat brie etc that is pasteurized that they will not come in contact with listeriosis.

That is absolutely untrue - and it does concern me... :hug:

One of the main issues seems to be the mis-information, conflicting information or lack of information available. I thought I was well informed on what to eat and not eat during pregnancy etc but still managed to find out only now that runny eggs are not ok. How did this slip through the keeper?

And I also thought that pastuerised was ok!

Nai - uncooked eggs can be a source of salmonella... So therefore eggs should be thoroughly cooked - that is no runny yolks!

One of my favourite things when pregnant with DD13 was "egg flips" - you know a raw egg, milk and vanilla... Actually sounds repulsive now - but I couldn't get enough of them! I got sick from "food poisoning" - and this was attributed to the eggs... So, it can happen...

Flowerchild and Hoobley - All differences aside, I think there are ALOT of very lucky women to have BOTH OF YOU in their corner!! Yes we all have our different beliefs and opinions, but at the end of the day, from all the different threads I have read on BB, you have both been a wealth of information, support, knowledge and encouragement to so many.

Just thought it needed to be said.

It's not a matter of thinking I'm right, it's a matter of weighing up the scientific evidence that has been presented and deciding what to do about it. It's not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact that some foods and any alcohol consumption represent a risk - how we decide to act on that is a matter of opinion and personal preference.

ETA: I hadn't read the whole thread when I posted this.... sorry.

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I followed my gut with foods and I found it served me well. One occasion I looked at a whole table of food and just went I can't eat any of that. I was right, everyone else got food poisoning. I was 6 weeks pregnant at the time and very thankful I went with my initial reaction to seeing the food. I still ate what I wanted after that, but always followed my instinct, so sometimes I would have sushi and other times the look of it turned me off.

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That's how I was as well with all 3 pregnancies. Sometimes there is false security in blindly following rules and not actually being educated. There is a difference. I think we would all agree that you could follow the food-types rules and still contract listeria or salmonella. It's just like Astrid said: you have to THINK about the hygiene and history of foods as a PRIME consideration as to whether it's safe.

I have worked in commercial kitchens and have training as to safe and hygienic food handling practises. This serves me far better than a food group list. Example: I would and have eaten a soft cheese that I have unwrapped from an air tight packet that was within "used by" dates. I would not eat the same cheese if it was unwrapped at an unknown point in time. My logic also works as Fiona put it... French women still eat brie when pregnant etc.

ETA: Ok... I am considering deleting this post because after reading the whole thread it might be a bit inappropriate to share my thoughts at this point of the discussion...

Um, Possibly one reason why I personally decided to take the risk in eating sushi and soft cheese during my pregnancies was because I don't eat red meat (mammals) and I think that perhaps I may have needed the extra protein... :dunno: